Ackbarican Idol Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 So, if I may summarize what's going on: Someone is on a number of ZI lists, and was released from a large portion of that number. One alliance, however, did not release the individual. The individual was not aware of this, and applied to an alliance, who was also not aware of it. That alliance, upon finding out about the presence of said list, went to private channels with the alliance whose list he is on. While these discussions were going on, that individual chose to make a thread about it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the sort of thing which normally is greeted by a chorus of "you should take it to private channel"s? Which, of course, is only exacerbated because it was already in those private talks. Even more to the point, not a single person from the alliance that is being applied to has spoken in this thread - presumably because they're already attempting to work out the problem in private channels. I suggest that everyone do the logical thing and allow the alliances actually involved to work out the issue in private, instead of arguing over matters which don't directly concern you, like would generally be done for a thread like this. ZI lists are always a difficult issue, because one of the unspoken rules is that if you want your own to be honored, it is necessary to abide by those that others hold. No alliance would appreciate another alliance accepting a member on their list - Zenith understands this, which is why the instant response from their leader upon discovering the issue was to contact GOD directly, in private, just as any other alliance who found themselves in this position would do. We should let them do their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Well allow me to enlighten the thread and bring it back on topic all at once.Facts: -Xiphosis has had KM on his ZI list for a loooong time. This is not some new attempt to start problems, anyone who has talked to Xiph ever knows about his issues with NoV and KM. -Yeah, Xiphosis dropped the ball by not asserting his claims on KM earlier, but its an honest mistake, and the issue still exists. -Despite all attempts by Vox and Co to spin this as some dramatic flashpoint, last I recall GOD and Zenith were discussing possible diplomatic solutions to this in good faith. Why are we even here? Slayer merely has posted that he and KM have reconciled and he disagrees with KM's continued internment. I see no threats anywhere from either side of this issue. So, how about we be good boys and girls and let Zenith and GOD hash this out in private. And on a final note, KM, posting this thread was probably a bad idea, if I were you I'd bow out quietly and let Zenith go back to trying to save your nation. Just a thought, DK is traditionally good at that kind of thing. When was the last time I <3'd you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 quality thread ps thread summaries generally suck.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 -Despite all attempts by Vox and Co to spin this as some dramatic flashpoint, last I recall GOD and Zenith were discussing possible diplomatic solutions to this in good faith. Why are we even here? First off -- what??? I see us arguing that this thing is a PR stunt, specifically the portion where TPF and Slayer pretend to give a rat's rump about permanent and eternal ZI. Which it clearly is. Second -- we have company ("and Co") now??? Isn't that a PZI-worthy offence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Not everyone knows who's on everyone else's ZI list. Well now everyone knows whose ZI list KM is on so that is pretty much a moot point right now isn't it? A very interesting point... Not really. I was on the ZI list of half the alliances in the game and was in MK for weeks before anyone noticed. MK was contacted, I was very nicely told that I had to leave and that was the end of that. It only proves that GOD doesn't tirelessly hunt people down. When they see someone on their ZI list then they act. Edited February 13, 2009 by KingSrqt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gofastleft Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Well allow me to enlighten the thread and bring it back on topic all at once.Facts: -Xiphosis has had KM on his ZI list for a loooong time. This is not some new attempt to start problems, anyone who has talked to Xiph ever knows about his issues with NoV and KM. -Yeah, Xiphosis dropped the ball by not asserting his claims on KM earlier, but its an honest mistake, and the issue still exists. -Despite all attempts by Vox and Co to spin this as some dramatic flashpoint, last I recall GOD and Zenith were discussing possible diplomatic solutions to this in good faith. Why are we even here? Slayer merely has posted that he and KM have reconciled and he disagrees with KM's continued internment. I see no threats anywhere from either side of this issue. So, how about we be good boys and girls and let Zenith and GOD hash this out in private. And on a final note, KM, posting this thread was probably a bad idea, if I were you I'd bow out quietly and let Zenith go back to trying to save your nation. Just a thought, DK is traditionally good at that kind of thing. thread over bigwoody wins yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan King Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) This. Our terms for the end of your PZI are minimal, the end of your IC character and nothing more. I entrusted to TPF the destruction of Norden Verein and did my best to aid in seeing to it happen (both providing a CB and offering my military existence assistance, which was refused) and assumed they would see to your continued ZI. Given that this did not happen, I took up the slack.Clear? And that little talk the other day where you mentioned that he was PZI for ordering your ZI during the UJP war, what was that then? Really GOD, it was a dirty war on both sides, the UJP side wasn't blameless either. The fact remains that KM is PZI because you were on opposite sides of a war the ended over a year ago. Stuff happens in wars. Edited February 13, 2009 by Duncan King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanic Republic Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 This thread is just chock full of CN cliches.Any thread involving Martens will eventually involve a debate about Nazis. Any thread in which someone is ZI'd will eventually involve a debate about the merits/evils of the various forms of ZI. Any thread will eventually involve a debate about Vox. Anything involving any German/Nordic-themed alliance period during wartime or when they are down will involve either a debate on Nazism or just random people going 'LOLNAZI' and being unfair. It happened in OO, it happened in UJW, it happened in every other war NoR/NoV/PrF/VlVK has been in. It even happens outside of CN. It's a law of nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 pps saying someone won a thread is a crappy way to suckup and a stupid meme. i'm not even sure if 'first post' is worse.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Well allow me to enlighten the thread and bring it back on topic all at once.Facts: -Xiphosis has had KM on his ZI list for a loooong time. This is not some new attempt to start problems, anyone who has talked to Xiph ever knows about his issues with NoV and KM. -Yeah, Xiphosis dropped the ball by not asserting his claims on KM earlier, but its an honest mistake, and the issue still exists. -Despite all attempts by Vox and Co to spin this as some dramatic flashpoint, last I recall GOD and Zenith were discussing possible diplomatic solutions to this in good faith. Why are we even here? Slayer merely has posted that he and KM have reconciled and he disagrees with KM's continued internment. I see no threats anywhere from either side of this issue. So, how about we be good boys and girls and let Zenith and GOD hash this out in private. And on a final note, KM, posting this thread was probably a bad idea, if I were you I'd bow out quietly and let Zenith go back to trying to save your nation. Just a thought, DK is traditionally good at that kind of thing. Vox and Co? TPF is our Co now? Woah man. Woah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Well allow me to enlighten the thread and bring it back on topic all at once.Facts: -Xiphosis has had KM on his ZI list for a loooong time. This is not some new attempt to start problems, anyone who has talked to Xiph ever knows about his issues with NoV and KM. -Yeah, Xiphosis dropped the ball by not asserting his claims on KM earlier, but its an honest mistake, and the issue still exists. -Despite all attempts by Vox and Co to spin this as some dramatic flashpoint, last I recall GOD and Zenith were discussing possible diplomatic solutions to this in good faith. Why are we even here? Slayer merely has posted that he and KM have reconciled and he disagrees with KM's continued internment. I see no threats anywhere from either side of this issue. So, how about we be good boys and girls and let Zenith and GOD hash this out in private. And on a final note, KM, posting this thread was probably a bad idea, if I were you I'd bow out quietly and let Zenith go back to trying to save your nation. Just a thought, DK is traditionally good at that kind of thing. Xiph has already had my counsel on this matter in private and I will respect any decision he makes. Anyone who has read my comments in other threads knows my feelings on this subject. Bigwoody, stop winning the damn thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 And that little talk the other day where you mentioned that he was ZI for ordering your ZI during the UJP war, what was that then? That has been rehashed multiple time sin this thread DK. KM followed through on a ZI that was requested for OOC reasons even after he was notified of those reasons. That is why he is on GOD's ZI list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Boris Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Really GOD, it was a dirty war on both sides, the UJP side wasn't blameless either. The fact remains that KM is PZI because you were on opposite sides of a war the ended over a year ago. Stuff happens in wars. Most objectively true statement in the entire thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Vox and Co? TPF is our Co now?Woah man. Woah. Another cute attempt to try and make the topic about Vox again, but TPF isn't trying to make this into some sort of incident. They're loudly disapproving, but that happens in public discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coursca Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Nothing, merely pointing out that just because Continuum thinks KM has served his punishment, it doesn't mean everyone does. My point there was entirely different. The point I was making is that it was time to put things from almost a year and a half ago aside lest they foment further conflict...and so far, I have been right -- the longer GOD has kept KM on the pZI list, the more conflict it has created in this thread. I stand by this piece of advice. To be honest, this is the first I've heard that GOD was even interested in a pZI on Kaiser Martens. Where were they before this? Can someone explain that one to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Lakes Union Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Not really. I was on the ZI list of half the alliances in the game and was in MK for weeks before anyone noticed. MK was contacted, I was very nicely told that I had to leave and that was the end of that.It only proves that GOD doesn't tirelessly hunt people down. When they see someone on their ZI list then they act. Well KM wasn't just in BDC and NV for for a few weeks if I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Another cute attempt to try and make the topic about Vox again, but TPF isn't trying to make this into some sort of incident. They're loudly disapproving, but that happens in public discussions. Go read my posts. Vox is not some over conscience. I agree with TPF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 My point there was entirely different. The point I was making is that it was time to put things from almost a year and a half ago aside lest they foment further conflict...and so far, I have been right -- the longer GOD has kept KM on the pZI list, the more conflict it has created in this thread. I stand by this piece of advice.To be honest, this is the first I've heard that GOD was even interested in a pZI on Kaiser Martens. Where were they before this? Can someone explain that one to me? Not telling you? It's not like it was a secret. They talked about it quite a lot on IRC well before this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 you got them coursca, i can't wait to see them weasel there way out of THAT one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Woody, I really do love you. Marry me? ------------ Also, I agree with the sentiments that this thread isn't about Vox ZI's. I swear, every discussion comes back to that somehow. Edited February 13, 2009 by Smooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) My point there was entirely different. The point I was making is that it was time to put things from almost a year and a half ago aside lest they foment further conflict...and so far, I have been right -- the longer GOD has kept KM on the pZI list, the more conflict it has created in this thread. I stand by this piece of advice.To be honest, this is the first I've heard that GOD was even interested in a pZI on Kaiser Martens. Where were they before this? Can someone explain that one to me? As Bigwoody has said, if you knew Xiph you knew his issues with KM. this is nothing new and it is far from news. Edited February 13, 2009 by KingSrqt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 hmm good weaseling. come on coursca you've still got at least 1 life left quick go for the throat. vox is on the other side, say that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptGodzilla Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 And that little talk the other day where you mentioned that he was PZI for ordering your ZI during the UJP war, what was that then? If you read on Xiphosis states that a person who was stalking him join NoV on the sole reason to fight xiph and get him ZI'd which KM followed through on (knowing or not know of the OOC relation between the 2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Vox and Co? TPF is our Co now?Woah man. Woah. No, TPF is not our "Co." and will not ever be our "Co." because we are honestly fighting for something, whereas they are political opportunists seizing on the opportunity to appear to be something they are not. As King Srqt has already pointed out the blatant hypocrisy of Slayer in supporting Kaiser Martens' removal from PZI and has stated stated that while he does not deserve it, Vox does, I am going to invoke Slayer's own words and once again ask something that nobody else on this damn planet can ever dare utter: why? How convenient that each war that came around you [Kaiser Martens] needed wonders and a warchest so you withdrew "tactically."You'll be an annoyance at best....you can play like you're the same as the members of Vox....but [Kaiser Martens and Nordreich] not....your something far worse. Link No, only you and your "volk" would find something "hitlarious."For all your protestations of what you guys are NOT, you continually prove what you are. Link. I would like to know the revelation Slayer has had. Where in the past he would openly accuse Martens of being racist and worst, now he has rescinded that for unstated reasons. Where in the past he had nothing but acidic rhetoric and promises of "wiping out", he now says that nobody deserves that. And in the past where he said that Kaiser Martens and Nordreich were far worse than anything Vox Populi could be, now he says we deserve permanent destruction where he does not. Man up, Slayer. Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Well KM wasn't just in BDC and NV for for a few weeks if I recall. You know, there is a point here...KM certainly was out in the open...of course not in a position to be hit without it meaning GOD getting rolled in the process. My personal opinion here would honestly be to let KM go in peace after this long and the constant beating he has taken, albeit with a short leash. But thats just a personal view, I am not a player in this affair. I am sure Xiph and DK can hash out a diplomatic agreement to this effect given time, so how about we let that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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