Border walls Suck

[uaberry]

I currently do no have any border walls because I thought that I would lose money getting them. I was reading the forums and I saw some discussions on them so I decided to do some calculations on them.

Currently I have:

• Population: 75,219
  
• Tax Rate %30
  
• Taxed amount per person: $111.00 (roughly)
  

Assumptions:

• The +1 environment is negligable (I already have a high environment rating so it is negligable to me, maybe not to everyone)
  
• One happiness point is worth roughly $4.15 (I'm not 100% on this, if anyone else truely knows then please let me know)
  

1 border wall -2% population, +2 happiness

2 border wall -4% population, +4 happiness

3 border wall -6% population, +6 happiness

4 border wall -8% population, +8 happiness

5 border wall -10% population, +10 happiness

1 border wall: New population: 73,714, Amount Loss: $166,986

2 border wall: New population: 72,210, Amount Loss: $333,973

3 border wall: New population: 70,706, Amount Loss: $500,960

4 border wall: New population: 69,201, Amount Loss: $667,947

5 border wall: New population: 67,697, Amount Loss: $834,934

1 border wall: Happiness: +2 ($8.30), Amount Gained: $183,550

2 border wall: Happiness: +4 ($16.60), Amount Gained: $359,608

3 border wall: Happiness: +6 ($24.90), Amount Gained: $528,174

4 border wall: Happiness: +8 ($33.20), Amount Gained: $689,249

5 border wall: Happiness: +10 ($41.50), Amount Gained: $842,832

Improvement upkeep: $3000 per improvement

Total Gained/Lost:

1 border wall: $13,563

2 border wall: $19,634

3 border wall: $18,214

4 border wall: $9,302

5 border wall: -$7,101

All of this and I lose population which means my army is also smaller. I guess maybe I'll save some money there also. As well as I know I don't account for environment.

Still, this is pretty useless. I crunched the numbers and if it was a happiness bonus of 3 instead of 2, that would make it well worth everyones time. Otherwise it is slightly useless.

If my calculations are right then maybe someone could mention this to the admin.

Tell me what you guys think.

[Count Rupert]

Well, I didn't check all the math, but it looks correct. The effect Border Walls has is fairly weak and has been recognized as such. You're also coming to the party rather late in that as your income climbs per citizen, it reduces the positive effect the Border Walls have since each citizen lost by the Broder Walls is making more money. Nations getting them earlier (around 50k citizens) see a much better return than you will. It largely comes down to your resource build. You are blessed by having the three resource build and thus you're not importing any resources that have a negative effect on your environment. So it's pretty easy for you through other means to maintain a clean environment. For those importing Coal, Oil and Uranium, it a bit tougher and Border Walls help them more than they help you obviously since every environment point is worth .4 happiness. So for nations needing the help, the Border Walls are really a +2.4 happiness improvement.

[myruler]

If they don't help you, don't get them. For me, they help, even if it is minimal, so I keep them.

[Lord Brendan]

I've never understood why Border Walls don't have some military effect. I mean, they're walls on your borders. Surely that would help defend your nation a bit?

[BamaBuc]

I've never understood why Border Walls don't have some military effect. I mean, they're walls on your borders. Surely that would help defend your nation a bit?

Not from planes, CMs, nukes, and tanks.

Also, as I say every time I respond to one of your posts, hi Brendan.

-Bama

[King Srqt]

I dont bother with them as they have a negative impact on my mil. But if i am in a 7 day or greater back collection it is profitable for me to swap them so sometimes I do that but uts a pain in the $@! so I usually dont.

[kswiss2783]

I make the most cash with 5 BW, so I wouldn't say they suck.

[youwish959]

I dont bother with them as they have a negative impact on my mil. But if i am in a 7 day or greater back collection it is profitable for me to swap them so sometimes I do that but uts a pain in the $@! so I usually dont.

This is the same situation with me. I refuse for the lowered soldier/tank count.

[TheDave]

If you environment is not perfect then you gain half a star per border wall. 1/2 star = .4 happiness = 50cents (give or take on roundings) tax per citizen at 30% so 75k citizens will pay an extra 37000 a day.

[Syzygy]

border walls or no border walls are indeed one of the few decisions in game you need a bit skill for to make them correctly. All that needs to be done is making the effect of environment more heavy, so the decision would indeed have some impact - for nations with a bad environment, they could be a true "improvement", for nations with a good environment, they are not needed. It all would depend on how you set-up your nation.

[The Demon Lord]

Don't know if this was mentioned, but swapping border walls when you collect after backlogging taxes and not hanging on to them for bill time mitigates the effect of any upkeep costs.

Your sign is reversed for the 5th Border Wall increase, so the total 5-Wall increase is $67814/day. Over a 10 day collection cycle, $600k is nothing to sneeze at. Granted, when you net $50M in the same span, a 1.2% income increase probably won't be of that much help after all. Anything to stay awake when you're in the top 5%, eh?

[Sheldomar]

Just to let the OP know he isn't alone, I've had similar results math-wise. The first 4 Borders Walls have brought an increase in tax profits, but the fifth one decreased my income and was just a big negative overall. I tore it down. They were the last Improvements on my list to purchase (other than Guerrilla Camps, which aren't on my shopping list at all).

I don't foresee me rebuilding that fifth Border Wall unless Admin changes its stats, or I start importing a lot of environmentally damaging Trade goods.

[Gebiv]

My game thing says this:

Border Walls - $60,000.00 - Decreases citizen count -2%, increases population happiness +2, Improves environment +1. (Does not affect Global Radiation levels)

Not 1 happiness. I think Admin modified it.

[SpacingOutMan]

It varies from nation to nation, as said above. For instance, take my nation:

With 5 border walls, I collect around $111.24 in taxes from 63,706 citizens. This yields around 7,086,655.44 before bills.

With 4 border walls, I collect around $108.70 in taxes from 65,121 citizens. This yields around 7,078,652.70 before bills.

With 3 border walls, I collect around $106.16 in taxes from 66,535 citizens. This yields around 7,063,355.60 before bills.

Continue with 2, then 1, then 0, and it'll drop around $15,000 per border wall being destroyed. So in my case, border walls are far more beneficial than not having any.

[x Tela x]

The biggest benefit from border walls is the first 1 or 2 you get improve environment. The OP needs to buy some nukes, then do the math.

[Viluin]

It varies from nation to nation, as said above. For instance, take my nation:

With 5 border walls, I collect around $111.24 in taxes from 63,706 citizens. This yields around 7,086,655.44 before bills.

With 4 border walls, I collect around $108.70 in taxes from 65,121 citizens. This yields around 7,078,652.70 before bills.

With 3 border walls, I collect around $106.16 in taxes from 66,535 citizens. This yields around 7,063,355.60 before bills.

Continue with 2, then 1, then 0, and it'll drop around $15,000 per border wall being destroyed. So in my case, border walls are far more beneficial than not having any.

The increase in income is pretty much negligible though.

[Max Beck]

I've never understood why Border Walls don't have some military effect. I mean, they're walls on your borders. Surely that would help defend your nation a bit?

True. Should defend you from all ground attacks and increase your soldier effectiveness.

[sayton]

your math is correct.. HOWEVER.... do the math if you had 170,000 citizens and 150 per person net.. then what?? at 30% tax rate.. i get about 1.1 million profit.. and also dont neglect the environment just because YOU have good environment.. its not the saemf or everyone..

sooo border walls make more for me after the 3rd border wall just as your math shows.. bt you dont have big enuff nation to judge for EVERYONE...

[zzzptm]

I love my border walls. Never thought I would, back in the day, but there they are, lookin' sharp. Sure, I take a hit on population, but the boost I get in environment and the happy boost means I make more overall than without them.

I don't know if I need five of them, but I certainly do need the two I currently have.

[Mirreille]

The increase in income is pretty much negligible though.

What he said. ^ Also, maybe you do make a little bit more $$; but that isn't all the Border Wall effects. Carrying 5 Border Walls reduces your population count by 10%, and that means you can carry much less troops/tanks. Now that might only be of importance if you are dealing with a single raider, but it is something to think about. The economic value you can figure, but the military implications might mean something to some nations too.

[Fort Pitt]

actually walls help against ground attacks including tanks...

a border wall isnt going to be 6 inches thick , more like 10 feet thick

so according to the calculations in the OP, 2 border walls give the best for your buck?

btw 1 happiness is 4.15 for me

[oinkoink12]

I think you fail

2 happiness is almost the same as 2% people (not doing the calcs on this one)

i use borderwalls for my environment being 6.4 without them.

with 5 borderwalls I make about half a mil more a day.

For precise calculations about this fact query Syzygy, capable enough of doing it.

[uaciaut]

border walls or no border walls are indeed one of the few decisions in game you need a bit skill for to make them correctly. All that needs to be done is making the effect of environment more heavy, so the decision would indeed have some impact - for nations with a bad environment, they could be a true "improvement", for nations with a good environment, they are not needed. It all would depend on how you set-up your nation.

Pretty much this. 2 border walls are worth it for me in terms of income, 3rd starts dropping it really.

Also i only buy the 2 border walls when collecting and delete them afterwards for military purposes

I think you fail

2 happiness is almost the same as 2% people (not doing the calcs on this one)

i use borderwalls for my environment being 6.4 without them.

with 5 borderwalls I make about half a mil more a day.

For precise calculations about this fact query Syzygy, capable enough of doing it.

I don't think he "fails". Actually his calculations are pretty much on the spot, though they there are a few more factors influencing this.

As for 2 happiness being the same as 2% people, again that depends and you should do the math to verify that, but given your nation size i think you'd make more cash with only about 2 border walls.

Edited April 15, 2008 by uaciaut

[enderland]

border walls or no border walls are indeed one of the few decisions in game you need a bit skill for to make them correctly. All that needs to be done is making the effect of environment more heavy, so the decision would indeed have some impact - for nations with a bad environment, they could be a true "improvement", for nations with a good environment, they are not needed. It all would depend on how you set-up your nation.

It's not that much skill though, because all you have to do is buy when before collecting and see if your income goes up enough to justify the cost