Official LPC Announcement

[Alonso Quixano]

8 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:

 

Please provide the dates of when sir kindle resigned, when RUKUNU was 'voted in', and a clarification on whether-or-not animalz ever withdrew from the bloc because junka claim they didn't and Alonso claimed they did.

 

 

I'm not claiming they did or did not, I'm just asking if they did. If in the infinite wisdom of the LPC, and it's triums say they did not, who am I to question the legitimacy of a bloc I am not apart of?

[Sigrun Vapneir]

3 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

I don't think you understand, the majority agreed on NoA joining.

 

"The majority" who specifically are you talking about? I was not even consulted, Junka did not agree, best I know RUKUNU was not consulted either.  I have 3:3 current executive members on my side. I asked you earlier if you thought we had missed someone to speak up and say who it is - you have conspicuously ignored that I see.

 

1 minute ago, Sephiroth said:

I meant you worship and believe everything a stooge says, even though they have consistently been our enemy and trying to undermine the LPC since Thorgrum.

 

Keeping an obvious enemy plant in the LPC is destroying it.

 

I worship? Really? Evidence, please, of me doing anything the least bit worshipful.

 

This is pathetic stuff.

[The Zigur]

1 minute ago, Alonso Quixano said:

He's not the only one to blame here, perhaps the LPC itself should shoulder some of the blame for allowing him to think he was actually a trium, and discussing it with Junka before all these contradicting threads were created. 

 

I don't care if an insane person claims he owns the moon. We took our time to talk to everyone actually in the LPCN, weigh the facts of the situation, and then acted.

 

Methrage digging his own hole deeper while I was patient reflects poorly on Methrage, not anyone else.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

4 minutes ago, Alonso Quixano said:

He's not the only one to blame here, perhaps the LPC itself should shoulder some of the blame for allowing him to think he was actually a trium, and discussing it with Junka before all these contradicting threads were created. 

 

I think you're missing a few events here. 

 

I tried to recruit him back to the LPCN and he told me he was just going to delete if we didn't want to fight SnX some more, which we obviously declined.

 

He then seems to have gone to both Junka and Sir Kindle. Junka gave him an idea what he would be looking for to take him back in, and while he's talking about it Meth is posting his crazy 'announcement.'

 

Somewhere right about the same time he's filling Sir Kindle full of lies, which are taken seriously and lead to Sir Kindle becoming very confused and resigning as trium.

 

So, no, I know I certainly did nothing to 'allow him to think he was a trium' and I don't know of anyone else who did, unless you blame Sir Kindle simply for believing him at first.

 

 

[Alonso Quixano]

Just now, Immortan Junka said:

 

I don't care if an insane person claims he owns the moon. We took our time to talk to everyone actually in the LPCN, weigh the facts of the situation, and then acted.

 

Methrage digging his own hole deeper while I was patient reflects poorly on Methrage, not anyone else.

 

I don't disagree with you that you took your time. I'm just questioning the blame being placed squarely on Sephiroth. 

 

He get's messages saying the animalz left LPC, and he was selected as the third trium. Is that all Sephiroth's fault? I'm sure you can't blame him for thinking he was a trium, and that they left when he was told by the second in command that they indeed did what was just. 

 

So, if that's the case, why would it matter to Sephiroth if you talked to animalz, and replaced him as the trium? It would seem you were trying to circumvent him as a trium, as he was trying to do with you. 

 

Yet. Animalz never left. Which is not Sephiroth's fault for not knowing that, when someone who was the reigning trium left, their alliance left, and he was placed in there.

 

 

I don't think the true LPC is doing anything wrong here, but to lay the blame all on Sephirtoth is disingenuous. 

[Sigrun Vapneir]

1 minute ago, Alonso Quixano said:

 

I don't disagree with you that you took your time. I'm just questioning the blame being placed squarely on Sephiroth. 

 

He get's messages saying the animalz left LPC, and he was selected as the third trium. Is that all Sephiroth's fault? I'm sure you can't blame him for thinking he was a trium, and that they left when he was told by the second in command that they indeed did what was just. 

 

So, if that's the case, why would it matter to Sephiroth if you talked to animalz, and replaced him as the trium? It would seem you were trying to circumvent him as a trium, as he was trying to do with you. 

 

Yet. Animalz never left. Which is not Sephiroth's fault for not knowing that, when someone who was the reigning trium left, their alliance left, and he was placed in there.

 

 

I don't think the true LPC is doing anything wrong here, but to lay the blame all on Sephirtoth is disingenuous. 

 

Not really. The 'messages' he got were in essence messages from himself. He just conned someone else into sending them to him.

[Sephiroth]

 

8 minutes ago, Sigrun Vapneir said:

 

"The majority" who specifically are you talking about? I was not even consulted, Junka did not agree, best I know RUKUNU was not consulted either.  I have 3:3 current executive members on my side. I asked you earlier if you thought we had missed someone to speak up and say who it is - you have conspicuously ignored that I see.

 

 

I worship? Really? Evidence, please, of me doing anything the least bit worshipful.

 

This is pathetic stuff.

 

You're getting defensive, acting outraged, yet never explaining why you never messaged me back before Junka approached you with this? I messaged you and said I think we should vote on removing SNX and I'd fill you in on the reason when you messaged me back. Then we we could have discussed what do and allowed Junka to be there to say what he wants as the alternative.

 

Instead you acted like you never got he message and suddenly sign off on an announcement completely full of BS lies. You are obviously his yes man now if you'll sign off on any BS he wants, without caring to hear the truth from anyone else. You obviously don't care about the Libertarian aspect of the LPC anymore, maybe you should start a new bloc with Junka?

 

Just at least don't speak nonsense to me.

[Sephiroth]

It was also you being near impossible to get hold of, you weren't involved in the discussions when I was made Triumvir. You didn't care to pay attention or care.

[The Zigur]

Cards are all out on the table now Methrage. Flipping the table doesn't make you win, it just makes you look childish.

[Alonso Quixano]

3 minutes ago, Sigrun Vapneir said:

 

I think you're missing a few events here. 

 

I tried to recruit him back to the LPCN and he told me he was just going to delete if we didn't want to fight SnX some more, which we obviously declined.

 

He then seems to have gone to both Junka and Sir Kindle. Junka gave him an idea what he would be looking for to take him back in, and while he's talking about it Meth is posting his crazy 'announcement.'

 

Somewhere right about the same time he's filling Sir Kindle full of lies, which are taken seriously and lead to Sir Kindle becoming very confused and resigning as trium.

 

So, no, I know I certainly did nothing to 'allow him to think he was a trium' and I don't know of anyone else who did, unless you blame Sir Kindle simply for believing him at first.

 

 

 

 

Even if I am missing those events. I still have to question, as to why, that the LPC was able to have a member alliance so persuaded by a non-member to leave by the second in command? 

 

It just seems that there is someone to blame in the LPC, maybe not sir kindle, maybe not Junka, maybe not yourself; but maybe the whole construct of the bloc. 

 

I also think that the LPC is right in what they are doing, as i've said in both threads. I'm just questioning the blaming of this entirely on Sephiroth. 

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Dude you were not made a triumvir.

 

You messaged me, you didn't like the reply. You messaged Junka, you didn't like his reply. You confused Sir Kindle enough to get his support for a moment and then you started posting announcements.

 

You're delusional.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

1 minute ago, Alonso Quixano said:

 

 

Even if I am missing those events. I still have to question, as to why, that the LPC was able to have a member alliance so persuaded by a non-member to leave by the second in command? 

 

 

You're smuggling false premises. No one convinced Animalz to leave LPCN. Someone convinced one member of Animalz that they were "going" to leave. They never left and they were never actually "going" to leave either.

 

[Lord Hitchcock]

I lived to see the day that Animalz attacked Methrage- and Junka in the LPCN telling Methrage to kneel for forgiveness.

 

It's a sad, sad, day.

 

 

[Rayvon]

42 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

I remember once upon a time we trusted each other, without needing to post logs to disprove BS.

 

To: Anarch    From: Sir Kindle    Date: 1/15/2017 12:15:05 PM

Subject: LPC

 

Message: Greetings Old Friend,

aNiMaLz will be withdrawing it's membership from the LPC. We thank you for everything, the wars, the friendship, and everything we shared. We just don't share in the vision of the LPC and will be moving on to pursue other avenues.

We do wish you the best, and hope we can remain friends. We wish the LPC all the luck in the world. Don't let it die. Replace aNiMaLz with Monsters, and take it to the limits. Believe me in the long run aNiMaLz just stands in LPC prosperity. So no hard feelings brother. Thanks again for everything.

Sir Kindle

 

To: Anarch    From: Sir Kindle    Date: 1/15/2017 12:19:46 PM

Subject: RE: LPC

 

Message: Keep the LPC. Don't give up. Monsters can help you do what needs to be done. LPC is your baby don't abandon your baby to ISX.

 

1 minute ago, Sigrun Vapneir said:

 

You're smuggling false premises. No one convinced Animalz to leave LPCN. Someone convinced one member of Animalz that they were "going" to leave. They never left and they were never actually "going" to leave either.

 

 

But it reads there like SK is declaring a departure? I am also confused on the series of events. Crazy micros.

[The Zigur]

1 minute ago, Rayvon said:

 

 

But it reads there like SK is declaring a departure? I am also confused on the series of events. Crazy micros.

 

Rukunu is in charge of Animalz, not Sir Kindle. Unless Rukunu posts such an announcement it didn't happen.

 

Methrage should have talked to Rukunu before assuming. 

[Alonso Quixano]

3 minutes ago, Sigrun Vapneir said:

 

You're smuggling false premises. No one convinced Animalz to leave LPCN. Someone convinced one member of Animalz that they were "going" to leave. They never left and they were never actually "going" to leave either.

 

 

That's a gross misinterpretation of that facts, they said they were going to leave (by the second in command) as Rayvon pointed out. The second in command says they're leaving, any alliance would take that as cannon, and believe that the alliance is leaving. So unless you're calling Sir Kindle a liar, or misinformed, he alerted people that animalz was indeed leaving. Which is perfectly acceptable to be misinformed, but it's not perfectly acceptable to think other people are smuggling false premises when it came from the second in commands mouth. 

[Sephiroth]

1 minute ago, Sigrun Vapneir said:

Dude you were not made a triumvir.

 

You messaged me, you didn't like the reply. You messaged Junka, you didn't like his reply. You confused Sir Kindle enough to get his support for a moment and then you started posting announcements.

 

You're delusional.

I guess talking crap and making up a bunch of bull !@#$ is good way to say goodbye. There is no point in trying to communicate anything to you, when Junka already made sure you were told a bunch of lies.

 

Although I've never given up the LPC and consider those claiming it theirs to be hostile impostors. As long as CA & aNiMaLz consider Junka Triumvir of the LPC; neither are considered legit members and imperial invaders instead. My nation might not be able to do much, but if I will take the LPC back if I get the power. It would be a shame if none of the founding alliances are in the LPC, but what matters more are the individual libertarians. Our Charter had the signatures of the nations joining out of a common goal, not alliances signing to gain more control.

 

My signature is first & an Authoritarian ruling the LPC is an insult to Libertarianism.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

2 minutes ago, Rayvon said:

 

 

But it reads there like SK is declaring a departure? I am also confused on the series of events. Crazy micros.

 

It does, but he does not and has never had the power to do so. RUKUNU would be the only one that could do that. Which is why the moment I heard this I wrote him. And I'll restate as I realize it's a long thread and I wouldn't want anyone to have to read it all - his reply was a definite no, and it continued on to tell me about the problem with Methrage...

 

I don't know that us being Micros has anything to do with it. If anything, our bloc has a clearer chain of authority than most alliances. I am sovereign of CA, Rukunu is sovereign of Animalz, and Junka of the Imperium. Each of us has unquestioned authority to speak for our respective alliances, and anyone that did 5 minutes of research would know who speaks for us and who does not.

[Alonso Quixano]

2 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

Rukunu is in charge of Animalz, not Sir Kindle. Unless Rukunu posts such an announcement it didn't happen.

 

Methrage should have talked to Rukunu before assuming. 

 

Correct. The leader should send out a message, but the second in command did, and being second in command still holds weight. 

 

That's like me getting a message from Glareion that SNX was doing X,. I would take it at face value, and not go to you about seeing if SNX was really doing X. 

[Alonso Quixano]

1 minute ago, Sigrun Vapneir said:

 

It does, but he does not and has never had the power to do so. RUKUNU would be the only one that could do that. Which is why the moment I heard this I wrote him. And I'll restate as I realize it's a long thread and I wouldn't want anyone to have to read it all - his reply was a definite no, and it continued on to tell me about the problem with Methrage...

 

I don't know that us being Micros has anything to do with it. If anything, our bloc has a clearer chain of authority than most alliances. I am sovereign of CA, Rukunu is sovereign of Animalz, and Junka of the Imperium. Each of us has unquestioned authority to speak for our respective alliances, and anyone that did 5 minutes of research would know who speaks for us and who does not.

 

Question. 

 

Then why was RUKUNU not the Trium in the first place, over Sir kindle? 

[Sigrun Vapneir]

8 minutes ago, Alonso Quixano said:

 

So unless you're calling Sir Kindle a liar, or misinformed

 

I think I've been extremely clear in saying that he was indeed sorely misinformed.

 

I've also posted a message from him detailing his current position if you missed it it's only a page or two back still.

 

3 minutes ago, Alonso Quixano said:

 

Question. 

 

Then why was RUKUNU not the Trium in the first place, over Sir kindle? 

 

The same reason that Junka might advance Galerion for his seat next month, the same reason I would probably rotate it with Methrage, were he still in CA like the old days. Why is authority delegated? To spread the burden, to increase buy-in, to reward useful activity, to give the junior ruler an opportunity to grow... there are not one but many, many reasons.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Sigrun Vapneir

[Sephiroth]

2 minutes ago, Alonso Quixano said:

 

Question. 

 

Then why was RUKUNU not the Trium in the first place, over Sir kindle? 

RUKUKU usually has Sir Kindle handle all the diplomatic stuff, since RUKUNU would rather delegate the power. So verifying things with RUKUNU isn't common, usually Sir Kindle contacts me,

Edited January 19, 2017 by Sephiroth

[Lord Hitchcock]

Edit: nevermind.

 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Lord Hitchcock

[The Zigur]

But... but... but... maybe Sir Kindle was my secret agent, and tricked you into announcing you are Sovereign over the triumvirs. And then I had Bangladesh attack Animalz and hacked your nation to promote him to General. And then using my mind control device, I made Sigrun speak out against you!

 

Please I prefer this version, that way I get to be a James Bond villain.  

[Alonso Quixano]

9 minutes ago, Sigrun Vapneir said:

 

I think I've been extremely clear in saying that he was indeed sorely misinformed.

 

I've also posted a message from him detailing his current position if you missed it it's only a page or two back still.

 

 

The same reason that Junka might advance Galerion for his seat next month, the same reason I would probably rotate it with Methrage, were he still in CA like the old days. Why is authority delegated? To spread the burden, to increase buy-in, to reward useful activity, to give the younger player an opportunity to grow... there are not one but many, many reasons.

 

 

 

I read it. Again. I'm not arguing that point that animalz didn't leave, but more so the point that leads someone to beleive that they did, and then had a trium spot. As well the entirety of the blame being laid on the other party. 

 

Okay. If we follow that same logic, why then, would we assume that Sir Kindle was not speaking for his alliance as the trium of LPC? When he declared the intentions to leave? I do not blame Sir Kindle. Let me make the clear. I am blaming the rhetoric of blaming Sephiroth for this whole mess. 

 

You can't on one hand say it's to delegate power, then admonish the power being used, even if it was over "lies". 

 

 

I would still like to reiterate, that I accept that animalz never "left". I also accept that Sir Kindle was misinformed. I do not accept that this is entirely Sephiroth's fault. You've only further entrenched the idea that Sir Kindle was given authority by the LPC as a trium, and he exercised that authority. I do fully recognize the true triums of the LPC as well, withstanding Sephiroth. 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Alonso Quixano