European War OOC Thread

[Horo the Wise Wolf]

Oh man, friends want to RP on the same sides. So evil. Shame it seems to be the case for both sides... :rolleyes:

[Lestari]

You just benefit more by trying to help them, with their assistance you can actually take on SEATO ICly, without it, you cannot, it makes sense.

Wait, I'm planning to take on SEATO? Shit, this is news to me. Well, I better not stick around here, I've got a lot of preparing to do! Thanks Mogar, I totally had no clue that taking on SEATO was on my agenda.

[Shave N Haircut]

*Roasts marshmellows on the big ball of hate and smiles.*

 

Just a friendly reminder that you're all children!

Edited October 21, 2014 by Shave N Haircut

[Maelstrom Vortex]

*Plots against Mogar in secret as we know Druk Yul keeps their 'buddies' 'close'.*

[Hereno]

Guess Yeru must be biased for me too as we happen to have access to the same channel as well.

all this proves is that i made a mistake by not rolling into africa

[Evangeline Anovilis]

 

That's great and all, but did you read the other one I linked as well?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaz

 

Model: a unique 23mm Rikhter (factory index 261P or 225P) rapid-fire cannon

Mounts: This revolver cannon was modified from the tail-gun of the Tu-22 bomber

ROF: capable of a theoretical rate of fire of 1800-2000 (up to 2600) rounds per minute.

Projectile density: Each 168 gram (ammo 23-OFZ-D-R ) or 173 gram (ammo 23-OFZ-G-R) projectile 

Speed: 850 m/s relative to the station.

I'll leave it to people to read up on sources and make their own picture of it. Enough attention to you for today, lest you grow spoiled.

 

You don't count, Director apparently seems to be living under fear of you, understandably so since you have threatened your former allies with nuclear war before, I'd be hesitant to stray from you as well, considering how well you dealt with the recent attempt at independent thought. Kevin wants to war, which I can respect him for.

Damn, I don't count. You could have at least tried to make up some reason.

[Triyun]

Still probably wouldn't let you in, who in their right mind would.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

The Cult Leader has denied this one communiun! They must be ostracized!

Edited October 21, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Greywall]

Meanwhile...


So yea about that war being fought across the Atlantic...

[Generalissimo]

For everyone's sanity can't we say Lynneth's fleet was destroyed by the response?

All of Triyun's weapons conveniently hit Lynneth.

That way it's no longer an issue.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Generalissimo

[Triyun]

So Mara's Post have a few issues:

 

 

 

OOC: Funnily enough, Ty knew exactly where the numbers came from, seeing as he approved it... and I have photographical proof of it to jar his mind if he's forgotten.

 

Can we see this evidence, and for tech you're using in this post but haven't posted as well?  Its been requested but never made public and I have logs of a GM supporting my position, so you simply can't disregard it cause you don't like it or me.  Once again providing logs from my GM conversation:

 

[spoiler]

Ty: are you here?
[12:08am] Triyun: yeah
[12:08am] Ty: Regarding satellites: LEO can be hit, MEO and GEO cannot
[12:08am] Triyun: Well
[12:09am] Triyun: I don’t deny they can be
[12:09am] Triyun: but
[12:09am] Triyun: the ones not going over Lyn’s land
[12:09am] Ty: Mara's total planes: 480
[12:09am] Triyun: should need to be shot from ships
[12:09am] Triyun: ASATs max range is like 480 miles
[12:10am] Triyun: Shooting something from Mexico to Ireland is obviously moe than that
[12:10am] Triyun: as for Mara’s what’s the comp?
[12:13am] Ty: IG 60 x 6 modifier = 360
[12:14am] Ty: Looking up her troop number she has 580k from IG
[12:15am] Triyun: Yeah, that’s what she had in her FB, plus moe planes
[12:15am] Triyun: so she’s 580 trools 360 plans or?  what’s the 480 numbr?
[12:15am] Triyun: number
[12:16am] Ty: She told me 580k troops and 480 planes, which doesnt appear possible
[12:16am] Ty: jesus christ
[12:16am] Triyun: you see my frustration
[12:16am] Triyun:                         
[12:17am] Ty: Alright. I've sent her a PM requesting information on that, but all your other questions can be answered
[12:17am] Triyun: also just an FYI a post probably won’t come tomorrow because that’s when PMFs are due so I’ll be finishing up my app for that
[12:17am] Triyun: Yeah
[12:18am] Triyun: my only thing is Lyn shooting the satellites in LEO from his homeland that aren’t over his homeland
[12:18am] Ty: It's fine... I've been working on an NSF application this weekend so I've been basically absent from everything
[12:18am] Triyun: Cause he said he’s shooting them from his home base
[12:18am] Triyun: National Science Foundation
[12:18am] Triyun: ?
[12:18am] Ty: yeah
[12:18am] Triyun: nice
[12:19am] Ty: Then Lynneth can modify his post to have his forces from ship shoot them or whatever, I'm not going to fault someone for not knowing the exact range
[12:20am] Triyun: I have no problem with that, its just it seems a cheap way to get around using missile slot
[12:21am] Ty: How does that avoid using missile slots?
[12:21am] Ty: Additionally, your other concerns were Lyns missiles and Maras tech level?
[12:21am] Triyun: on his ships, if you shoot from your homeland, you can then do more missile spam
[12:21am] Triyun: Lyn changed those added guidance
[12:21am] Triyun: Mara’s tech yeah
[12:21am] Triyun: has she said where it was posted she got help with tech
[12:22am] Triyun: or I can just assume what the models had on her tech level
[12:22am] Ty: She wasn't able to provide me with proof, so assume she's using whatever highest tech is available for her
[12:22am] Ty: yup
[12:22am] Triyun: ok
[12:22am] Triyun: I shall do so[/spoiler]

 

Mara, you don't get to just say so to get proof, and there's been no link you've provided to anyone to show you have stuff out of your tech year.  The only think I'm aware of is Mogar's attempts to supply you after the Battle of Britain started and thus a non-factor in this battle.

 

[url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/124412-allons-enfants-de-la-patrie/?p=3316352]Her first post:[/url]

 

 

 

Three RF-18s, equipped with ECM pods and a quartet of AIM-120 AMRAAMs were launched from the carriers' decks, making their way towards the British fleet.

 

Then she alters these planes when I'm responding to her recon, in her [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/124412-allons-enfants-de-la-patrie/?p=3323417]second post[/url] to be in the middle of the now non-existant Tikal fleet? 

 

 

 

The Federal pilots were, in fact, the second group to launch, behind the protective screen of Tikal's far more massive air fleet.

 

This makes no sense, reconnaissance comes before attack as clearly seen in all the other posts and it was explicitly said by Mara she was coordinating her attack with Lynneth.  How could her recon units to find my aircraft be behind his attack lines, when his fighter screen in his [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/124412-allons-enfants-de-la-patrie/?p=3316359]post[/url] launched after he fired all his missiles.

 

 

 

After the missile launches, the fleet's entire complement of fighters was launched, totaling 306 Rafales in support of allied airplane formations, coordinated with allied forces in every possible way.

 

It seems like Mara's ignoring time and position entirely in her post.

 

Onto the next section of her post:

 

Now I'd like to turn attention to the middle part of her post, where she talks about air combat.

 

Again this is in direct contrandiction to her first post:  

 

 

 

The fleet's remaining 210 fighters would then launch as well, all aimed like a spear towards the enemy's fleet. They, too, would be coordinated and predicated on their allies' attacks being launched.

 

Unless Mara can somehow magically withdraw her entire air force, that entire force is coming into my fleet and thus is in engagement range of my forces.  Now note my full post:

 

[spoiler]Fighters swarmed hrough the sky, as the attackers entered the hornets nest that were the British Isles and their surrounding seas!

F-23s in formations of 4 would be divided through the fronts using their advanced AESA radars and IRST systems with low probability of intercept to monitor, and send over pencil beam low probability of intercept frequencies to other fighter formations in the area, while maintaining super cruise and high altitude, as well as taking advantage of their loitering time.  Most Advanced F/A-18 E/Fs on offense would be equipped with weapons pods, while on defense they would combine external armaments, this allowed hem to maximize stealth.  Slam Eagles would also maximize their stealth for intercepting incoming forces.

Homing in on beacons of EM energy approaching ranging from AWACs to growlers, the F-23s would engage these targets at superior altitude, using their stealth and sensors to get the jump on them as they engaged hem.  E-2s and E-3s would be relatively easy targets, while Growlers would be at severe kinematic disadvantages vis-a-vis the Black widows, who kept the fight closer to their fleets, and out of range for Raptors from France to scramble, without attaching fuel tanks thereby ruining their stealth, and inviting the wrath of the British IADS. 

At the same time, British growlers would work to prevent radar lock and detection, while interior EC-130 Js would block communications between the squadrons,  and British, Sea, Land, and Air radars including E-3 and E-2s would help monitor aircraft and missiles as they came in.  Both fleets and ground based defenses would engage enemy planes, while the British air force would employ swarming tactics, given their much lower detection ranges and lower flight times, allowing them to swarm in on clusters of enemy aircraft.  Jamming missile locks, while being pummeled by outnumbered aircraft, while B-1 Rs would provide long range defense, firing off volleys to defeat enemy aircraft and the missiles they managed to get off.  The results would be that the British would never enter into aircraft engagements where they didn’t have advantages in altitude, fuel, and numbers, as well as superior detection ranges, giving them near certainties to overcome each wave, while the enemy aircraft would need to also fight through the IADS and seabased SAM nests around the British Isles. 

F-15s and F-23s would take particular pleasure in forcing fights with the older F/A-18 Super Hornets of the Plains Federation, which would be torn to shreds, without the presence of AESA Radars.  They’d also prioritize engaging the Growlers of the enemy air power, pounding them relentlessly, even at the cost of letting some super hornets escape.  The reason for this was simple, there was about to be a very very nasty surprise.[/spoiler]

 

Reading Mara's post not only did she pretty much entirely ignore damage from this (I'd especially like to know how she just shrugs of fifth generation fighter attacks), she also ignores [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarming_(military)]swarming tactics[/url] and instead RPs my pilots for me (a blatant god mode) fly into the middle of her fleet, something that based on her first post of her aircraft attacking mine, and my own post makes no sense.

 

At no point in this post was I speaking about flying into the middle of her fleet, indeed I did not have to because she posted that all 210 of these aircraft were flying into mine, yet magically all my F-15s and F-23s (which she couldn't really detect) are flying in the middle of her fleet (something again never RPed either explicitly or implicitly, but rather teleported there by her).  

 

Yet now in her post here other 200 of her super hornets have magically flown through my fighters and are in missile range, have ignored my electronic warfare entirely including communications jamming, by the amount of talk they are doing to one another and the fleet, AND fired missiles that cannot be fired from Super Hornets namely Soviet P-800s, which is followed up by P-700s again a missile Mara's ships, [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/122097-plains-federation-factbook/?p=3262752]found here[/url], are not equipped with.  Nor could her ships be equipped with them without substantial refit (if its even possible.  A P-700 cannot fit in a US VLS system which is what Mara's employing being twice the length of a harpoon missile (10 meters vs. 4.6 meters), well over twice the diameter of .85 meters vs. .33 meters for the harpoon, weighing 7000 kilograms vs 628 kilograms for the harpoon.  In fact (wiki uses this source but its in Russia, I'm going to trust its generally true), the page on the P-700 says "However, the size of the missile limits the platforms on which it can operate and be launched from" which largely squares with it only being fired from Russia's largest surface warship which in turn can only carry 20 and 12 respectively.  The nly ships large enough to match these that Mara has are Iowas and Nimitz, neither of which in her FB is modified for the P-700 and assuming they were the Nimitz would probably not have the ability to launch that many planes, 

and the Iowas much less other missiles.  And then on top of this even if these somehow magically were modded, its hard to see how you get to 200.

 

 

Meanwhile, the second attack would screech from the hardpoints of the 200 anti-ship configured F/A-18E/Fs and the decks of all nine destroyers, six frigates, and four cruisers. The Hornets would fire four P-800 Onikses apiece, putting 800 birds in the air at a range of 170 miles at mach 2.5. Each missile would close the distance to just outside of Standard missile range before dropping down to a sea-skimming profile for their attack run, just ten meters off the wavetops. The 800 missiles were targeted on the British cruisers and destroyers alone. From the Federal ships came 200 additional P-700 Granits, synced to the air launch so that all 1000 missiles would arrive at roughly the same time. The Granits were targeted on the British carriers, 40 per carrier.

 

Which means in some total for the air battle in this whole middle section Mara, reteleported forces from different parts both her and myself posted in both posts, ignored explicit tactics I was using, took no damage, ignored large parts of my attack, then reteleported her forces to attack my fleet with missiles that she does not have on her aircraft.

 

But on top of that Mara is also flat out ignoring radars onboard my units.  First Growlers are separate planes, growlers have additional space for computing and jamming in the nose of the aircraft in place of a gun, much of jamming depends on computing power to do so.  

 

 

 

The only difference between a Growler and an air-or-sea-strike equipped F/A-18E or F was the number of ECM pods mounted and their locations, as well as the Growler's onboard EW system.. A Growler-type Super Hornet would mount five ALQ-99s and two AMRAAMs or Sidewinders, depending on its position in the squadron formation and assigned duties. Every single anti-air package F/A-18 carried one; the anti-shipping configured ones would carry one as well. In effect, the sky was awash with Federal jamming, fierce and heavy enough to blind any incoming missile much beyond knife-fighting range. Sheer sensory overload would finish off any home-on-jam missile.

 

This is [url=http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/australia-to-buy-24-super-hornets-as-interim-gapfiller-to-jsf-02898/]wrong again[/url]:

 

 

 

For operators who need much greater electronic defense and even offensive capabilities, the EA-18G Growler electronic warfare version is a derivative of the F/A-18F Block II that removes the internal gun, adds electronics within the aircraft to help it detect and jam enemy radars, and mounts 4 specialized ECM (Electronic CounterMeasures) pods under the wings.

 

The Super Hornets Mara is employing all lack this capability, instead having just the gun.  At the same time the fighters I'm using the Advanced Super Hornet (something Mara's are below tech range to also do), the F-15-K Slam Eagle, and the F-23 are all equipped with low probability of intercept, low probability of jamming radars which would first be hard to see to jam, and operate on multiple wave lengths making jamming for a dedicated electronic warfare plane a challenge.  Mara's super hornets are simply lacking the detection mechanisms in the first place to detect radar lock, let alone block all these air to air missiles as she does.

 

Moving on... (sadly this doesn't stop):

 

Mara appears to have a significant math problem here:

 

In her first post she referenced each carrier have 16 super hornets defending it, 16*3 is 48 total, in my post I attacked that area with 140 aircraft a mix of 2 growlers per squadron of rafales (there were 10).  Mara in this post claims:

 

 

 

Super Hornets simply outclassed their foes, the Growlers being laden down by extra EM pods and the Rafales were simply outnumbered, though they could climb slightly faster and had a slightly better thrust-to-weight ratio.

 

Again, she explicitly sent 210 of her super hornets straight into my fleet in her last post and prior in this post claimed it was those 3 CAPs that were protecting her fleet.  Unless her aircraft just magically appear with no explanation where it is convenient (especially again considering my jamming), how precisely can she easily out number 120 Rafales with 48 Super Hornets?

 

Now onto the anti-ship ballistic missiles.

 

 

 

"Time to earn our pay!" the FC1 said, bumping shoulders with the FC2 as he pushed over to his console, a foot away. "Multiple inbound; the computer says they're hitting the carriers. Well frak them, then!" the FC1 muttered, before raising his voice. "Brace for shock!" he said, as every member of the crew found something solid to hold themselves against or to. The computer spat out firing solutions, and his thumb rammed the firing stud that controlled the other batch of SM-2 missiles. The birds lofted away from the ship in a nearly simultaneous launch, hurtling into the upper atmosphere to engage the ballistic missiles before their warheads separated. The same scene replayed itself on every ship in the three battlegroups, all within mutual support range of one another. Now, of course, not all of the enemy missiles were intercepted - the first anti-BM salvo knocked out a full third of them, but they expended 32 missiles to do it.

Then the second salvo hit, and blasted apart a further half. Then the Sea Sparrow missiles, lofted in a furious wave, rose to meet their adversaries; at nearly the same time, RAM canisters fired, and the CIWS roared.

There were no surviving missiles to hit the ships.

 

Again Mara is a 2002 tech nation, a short history lesson would show aegis BMD only moved to the production phase in 2005, and did not go onto ships as an operational weapon until 2009.  However, that's for Aegis ships to hit a exo-atmospheric target in mid-course phase.   So Mara shouldn't be using this against a anti-ship ballistic missile.  But even if she did, an anti-ship ballistic missile has never been shown to work (or even been tested against a terminal endo-atmospheric phase of a DF-21 ASBM.  [url=http://fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL33745.pdf]According to the Congressional Research Service, which tells Congress where it needs to put its money (p. 17)[/url]

 

Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile Target 

A threat representative Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM) target for operational open-air 

testing has become an immediate test resource need. China is fielding the DF-21D ASBM, 

which threatens U.S. and allied surface warships in the Western Pacific. While the Missile 

Defense Agency has exo-atmospheric targets in development, no program currently exists 

for an endo-atmospheric target. The endo-atmospheric ASBM target is the Navy’s 

responsibility, but it is not currently budgeted. The Missile Defense Agency estimates the 

non-recurring expense to develop the exo-atmospheric target was $30 million with each 

target costing an additional $30 million; the endo-atmospheric target will be more expensive 

to produce according to missile defense analysts. Numerous Navy acquisition programs will 

require an ASBM surrogate in the coming years, although a limited number of targets (3-5) 

may be sufficient to validate analytical models.24

 

So in other words, Mara's RPing a hundred percent success rate with missile defenses against a target against which she not only lacks the technology to field, but which that technology she's illegally fielding has never been tested for, nor any money ever appropriated to defend against.  That's a clear god mode right there.  

 

Additionally I explicitly fire a single salvo, and the sea sparrow (she's to low tech to use the evolved sea sparrow) is rated for use as point defense against sea skimming cruise missiles, not hypersonic glide vehicles.  And the evolved sea sparrow if she somehow got her hands on it in prior RP, is rated for super sonic again cruise missiles.  The CIWS of course can shoot at anything but [url=http://thediplomat.com/2011/11/asbm-defense-isnt-easy/]according to one professor at the Naval War College[/url], would have less than 1 second to engage the ASBM.  Meaning the idea it could mop up 2/3s as you claim, having only 1/3 stopped by your ABMs (which wouldn't work that well as I've shown anyways and you should not have) is a flat out ludicirous notion.

 

So...... yeaaaaaaaah.  I think some edits are needed. 

 

Added an addendum cause there's just so much, sorry:

 

Addendum to this Mara stuff, which I also noticed since I ran out of tags:

Mara's P-800 even if she modified it for existing craft, is fitted for one missile in the center of a flanker:

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-Cruise-Missiles.html#mozTocId241813

 

"At 6,000+ lb launch weight, the Yakhont/Brahmos would be carried by Su-27/30 on a centreline adaptor."

 

The flanker and the F/A-18 Super Hornet are roughly the same size, with the Su-27-30 a little bigger and having a higher take off weight (especially higher when you remember launching from carriers rather than from land with a much shorter runway).

 

Super Hornets weights:
Empty weight: 32,081 lb (14,552 kg)
Loaded weight: 47,000 lb (21,320 kg) (in fighter configuration))
Max. takeoff weight: 66,000 lb (29,937 kg)

 

So... not only could Mara not physically carry volume wise 4 missiles per plane (please note she had specified in the previous post they had both air to air and air to ship weaponry).  4*6000= 24000 lbs + 14000 lbs of fuel (I'm assuming Mara wants to be able to launch and get back, as well as have fuel to avoid my aircraft, and loiter while you try to land 90 planes on a carrier) = 38000 lbs, putting the total weight at over 70000 lbs, more than 4000 required for minimum take off, and remember the operational range is not for at max weight.

 

So even if Mara had done prior RP to outfit the Onix missile onto her planes, they would 1) not be able to fit the missiles, and if through some cosmic miracle they did, they'd crash into the sea or not have fuel to complete its mission, and certainly would not have missiles to protect themselves from my air force, or carry any additional external things like jamming pods.

I also just noticed this. 

 

I'd also like to ask her about math on the numbers, I just noticed this.  In her first post she specifies first that had 65 remaining aircraft per carrier and 3 carriers.  That's 195 aircraft.  Then at the bottom of that post she says 210 aircraft attacking my fleet, which means that 15 or one of the CAP (save 1 plane) would have had to go with those 195 to get that number.

 

But in her second post all 3 CAPs are still with her fleet, so that number makes no sense.  Then she talks abut 200 aircraft attacking, which I guess could be 10 losses, but again since the 3 CAPs are back, that's start from only 195, so she'd have not only taken no losses when she could not carry any armament, she'd have created an additional 5 planes.  All these numbers simply make no sense.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Triyun

[Mara Lithaen]

1. I never actually RP'd my strike getting into range of your aircraft or even leaving my own AD bubble, only the launch. You RPd my craft like I had. Don't do that. If it's not explicitly stated, it didn't happen. You RP your units closing with and attacking my aircraft, while they're still inside their own home turf, expect to pay the consequences.

 

2. You forget that half of my strike was armed for anti-air operations. That's two hundred aircraft just as capable as anything you field, ready to rip your anti-shipping strike to pieces. Seeing as they hadn't even left my AD bubble yet, we then have 200+64=264 aircraft to take out your anti-shipping strike.

 

3. On the subject of the ASMs, my brain read the Hornet's payload weight as 18000kg, rather than roughly 18000 pounds. I'll go slice the Oniks missile launch from the planes in half. My bad, no biggie.

 

4. As to the ASBMs, all I will say is 99.88% success rate. I'll go let let a bomblet hit a frigate.

 

Add'ly, until the Battle of Britain is over, Lynneth's ships are still there, attacking you. That's the last thing I heard out of a GM's mouth, anyway.

 

As a note, I may not respond to anything for a bit, I've got stuff to do before my move to Naval Base 32nd Street, San Diego.

[Centurius]

Pretty sure the rule still is you can't rp the forces of someone else so no Lynneth's ships are in fact not shooting. Voodoo is also the only GM that can make a ruling on the war and I haven't seen him state otherwise.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

There is no rule that the other gm's cannot rule in the war. It's just seen as impolite to rule on your own wars. However, best results are achieved with consensus. That said, nya nya Cent :P

 

If Consensus is not achieved, simple majority rules.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Centurius]

There is no rule that the other gm's cannot rule in the war. It's just seen as impolite to rule on your own wars. However, best results are achieved with consensus. That said, nya nya Cent :P

 

If Consensus is not achieved, simple majority rules.

Actually all sides have stated more than once rules from CNRP carried over unless specifically changed so there is in fact an actual rule that GMs are not allowed to rule on their own wars.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Interesting you say this. This is your information from your own thread on gms and wars moderation rules.. there's no other mention of such a relationship. No mention of such a restriction.:
 
 

General Guidelines and Rules for CNRP
CNRP is the name of a collective of RPs in a cohesive world that has developed over several years, since 2006. It started as people playing on this forum, and then a map was created, and then rules followed. As such, the rules are very organic in nature, and have been created in an attempt to lessen disputes in wars. Keep in mind, these are only general guidelines for wars. If all parties in a war wish to follow different rules, they can. If they want to appoint a different mediator for their own war, they can. If you wish to roleplay a technologically advanced nation, you may, except in the case of military technology which, to maintain fairness, is relatively standardised.

I also noticed you are the OP and edited it just today.. not very long ago in fact. *taps jaw* Wonder why. Edited October 26, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Centurius]

Interesting you say this. This is your information from your own thread on gms and wars moderation rules.. there's no other mention of such a relationship. No mention of such a restriction.:
 
 

I also noticed you are the OP and edited it just today.. not very long ago in fact. *taps jaw* Wonder why.

Yes that tends to happen when you update a map Einstein, also from the part you quoted

 

If all parties in a war wish to follow different rules, they can

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Also Cent... your establishment of a protectorate over GLR and declaring it dead are premature... 4 weeks is the time allowed now as of this vote. Yeru technically has til the 30th. I'm rather sure she'd grant her own extension.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Centurius]

That only deals with max lock periods, not regular inactivity.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Yes that tends to happen when you update a map Einstein, also from the part you quoted

 

If all parties in a war wish to follow different rules, they can

 

This contradicts the all 3 gms can participate in the rulings how? And where does it spell out gms cannot rule over their own wars? I'm not seeing that either. Your rules lawyering is terrible. You don't have any documentation to support your claims!

Edited October 26, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Evangeline Anovilis]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/124651-the-gms-court/

 

From CNRP:

 

 

Definition of a GM

 

The Game Masters (GMs) are a democratically elected institution of CNRP, tasked with interpretation and application of the CNRP community rules. They are thus the moderation of the RP. GMs do not create rules and cannot change rules on their own, for they are not a triumvirate (or in general an olligarchy). However, as rules can be ambigious, customary and unwritten, sometimes in form only of guidelines (e.g. common sense rules often fall into this) and precedents, this ambiguity can lead to disputes between members in the community, given the partly competitive nature of the RP. Therefor, in order to apply the rules, the duty of interpretation is also left to the GMs. It is from this definition, that scope and the role of the GM can be derived.

As well as the CNRP2 rendition:

 

Definition of a GM
 
The Game Masters (GM's) are CNRP2 players elected by the Cyber Nations Role Playing 2 community to apply the CNRP2 community rules. They represent the moderation staff within CNRP2. GM's do not create rules, as they are not a triumvirate. However, the rules can be ambiguous, as in reality they are not a centralized set of policies, but a loose network of customs, procedures, written and unwritten guidelines. Many disputes within CNRP2, as it is a competitive atmosphere, arise from this ambiguity. Therefore to apply the rules, the duty of interpretations is also left to the GM. This is a functional and a reasonable definition, so I continue to maintain it. It is from this definition, that scope and the role of the GM can be derived.

The rule of GMs not being able to rule on their own conflict is a customary rule, which was established as unwritten rule in CNRP and carried over.

 

Also Cent... your establishment of a protectorate over GLR and declaring it dead are premature... 4 weeks is the time allowed now as of this vote. Yeru technically has til the 30th. I'm rather sure she'd grant her own extension.

Yeru did not lock their nation, therefor, the Great Lakes Republic does not fall under the 21 days+4 weeks, but only 21 days.

 

Try again.

[Centurius]

 

This contradicts the all 3 gms can participate in the rulings how? And where does it spell out gms cannot rule over their own wars? I'm not seeing that either. Your rules lawyering is terrible. You don't have any documentation to support your claims!

It means you need unanimous consent from all parties to overturn existing rules, also the CNRP World Map hasn't included all rules for years. Let me link you to the GMs Court

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/105517-the-gms-court/

 

Under the compendium of existing rules:

3. In cases where GMs are in conflict with each other, or are otherwise compromised, GMs may now elect amongst themselves with a unanimous vote a temporary neutral fourth GM who's sole responsibility will be arbitrating that particular dispute.

5. GMs involved in a war will not be allowed to roll during that war unless specifically requested by the opposing side to said GM.

 

The combination of these two have always been deemed the formal declaration of the unwritten rule that had existed for years.

[Hereno]

we've went and PMed people and shit before removing them from the map before. don't be dicks to yeru

i don't think it's an actual rule about ruling on wars, but frankly, it seems obvious as fuck that you can't sit and shill for yourself in the gm office

[Evangeline Anovilis]

we've went and PMed people and !@#$ before removing them from the map before. don't be dicks to yeru

i don't think it's an actual rule about ruling on wars, but frankly, it seems obvious as $%&@ that you can't sit and shill for yourself in the gm office

I wrote enough PMs to Yeru (and Rudolph) to get them to post, that I personally think, it's really their issue if they can't observe the 21 day limit.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Actually, I was wrong, her most recent post was as of the 22nd.