Quick Announcement

[BloodFury]

[quote name='DoorNail' timestamp='1350012652' post='3040343']
that's a more polite way around it, we can't be going around hurting peoples feelings now, right?
[/quote]

I don't think you are intellectually capable of hurting someones feelings. Don't ever underestimate SirWilliam's intelligence.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Don Chele' timestamp='1350011714' post='3040323']
Every alliance, however small, has a right to exist, and that right is not defined by the GOONS v. 2.0 charter.
[/quote]

Not quite. We feel alliances may exist, certainly, but don't recognize entities as such if they don't have formal relations and if they don't exceed a certain membercount (that's how tech-raiding generally works). Some call it picking on the little guys but it's more about operating with defined standards.

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1350011851' post='3040325']
What shall we do about that?
[/quote]

Scream about the injustices that aren't there?

[quote name='BloodFury' timestamp='1350012208' post='3040333']
Did you seriously just call SirWilliam stupid?
[/quote]

It's all he can do really.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1350013290' post='3040350']
Scream about the injustices that aren't there?
[/quote]
You techraided an alliance, then ZI listed their leader when he retaliated.

I'm baffled that you think you are good guys. At least everyone else can admit when they are terrible people.

[DoorNail]

[quote name='BloodFury' timestamp='1350013034' post='3040346']
I don't think you are intellectually capable of hurting someones feelings. Don't ever underestimate SirWilliam's intelligence.
[/quote]

could have fooled me, some might say, he was helping to dig your grave.

what do you have against us for holding us at war for nearly 3 weeks again? If you mentioned it, I may have forgotten.

Edited October 12, 2012 by DoorNail

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1350013654' post='3040355']
You techraided an alliance, then ZI listed their leader when he retaliated.

I'm baffled that you think you are good guys. At least everyone else can admit when they are terrible people.
[/quote]

I'm baffled any part of anything that any of us have said or done would lead you to think we think we are 'good guys' (in the context that you use it). Please feel free to read/reread the first paragraph from the post of what you quoted.

Edited October 12, 2012 by SirWilliam

[Starfox101]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1350014044' post='3040359']
I'm baffled any part of anything that any of us have said or done would lead you to think we think we are 'good guys'. Please feel free to read/reread the first paragraph from the post of what you quoted.
[/quote]
At the very least, you don't think you are doing any wrong here, and that is simply a warped view.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1350014318' post='3040364']
At the very least, you don't think you are doing any wrong here, and that is simply a warped view.
[/quote]

I don't see things so black and white and would contend that such a simplistic view is naive. Simply put, I don't see tech-raiding as being an evil. I'm aware you see otherwise.

[KenMorningstar]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1350014318' post='3040364']

At the very least, you don't think you are doing any wrong here, and that is simply a warped view.
[/quote]

You run your nation your way, we run ours another way. Don't judge because the ways are different.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Tir Nan Og

[DoorNail]

[quote]Not quite. We feel alliances may exist, certainly, but don't recognize entities as such if they don't have formal relations and if they don't exceed a certain membercount (that's how tech-raiding generally works). Some call it picking on the little guys but it's more about operating with defined standards.[/quote]


For some reason, a nation sitting on that same alliance with the capability to launch 10K tech powered nukes.. didn't set off a flag? You are calling my nation a "little guy"? lol, who are you trying to tell jokes to here?

"defined standards" isn't the destruction of any new alliance, that doesn't run to jump on the leash of another alliance by order of GOONS, ASAP!!! lol

You do not have any leverage over anyone, you're just a bunch of silly clowns

[BloodFury]

[quote name='DoorNail' timestamp='1350014028' post='3040358']
could have fooled me, some might say, he was helping to dig your grave.

what do you have against us for holding us at war for nearly 3 weeks again? If you mentioned it, I may have forgotten.
[/quote]

Dig my own grave? Only I can dig my own grave.

What does GOONS have against you? Did you fight back during the tech raid? If so then they are just doing standard procedure that most tech raiding alliances do at this point, which is to keep attacking you.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Tir Nan Og' timestamp='1350014656' post='3040372']
You run your nation your way, we run ours another way. Don't judge because the ways are different.
[/quote]
That would be the case, however you running your nation your way is now completely infringing on the rights of others. A simple tech raid has turned into a war, with an alliance leader being put on PZI for defending his troops.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1350014583' post='3040369']
I don't see things so black and white and would contend that such a simplistic view is naive. Simply put, I don't see tech-raiding as being an evil. I'm aware you see otherwise.
[/quote]
While I don't approve, I am not going to tell people not to tech raid. However, I am going to call out someone for attacking an alliance and putting their leader on ZI.

You see it is as a raid, and it simply isn't,

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1350015036' post='3040378']
You see it is as a raid, and it simply isn't,
[/quote]

No, not at all. We see the initial raids as raids, yes. Sanctioning/EoGing DoorNail, though (who's still going at it I see - holy crap the guy's hilariously, woefully oblivious to everything), was protocol for his attacks (his wars being 'in defense' of others irrelevant for us).

[DoorNail]

[quote name='BloodFury' timestamp='1350015035' post='3040377']
Dig my own grave? Only I can dig my own grave.

What does GOONS have against you? Did you fight back during the tech raid? If so then they are just doing standard procedure that most tech raiding alliances do at this point, which is to keep attacking you.
[/quote]

no our guys were ordered to not retaliate in a mass PM, we always give diplomacy a chance first. do you need proof of that PM message?

[BloodFury]

[quote name='DoorNail' timestamp='1350015424' post='3040384']
no our guys were ordered to not retaliate in a mass PM, we always give diplomacy a chance first. do you need proof of that PM message?
[/quote]

Then why are you fighting if everyone was supposed to go to peace mode? It isn't that difficult to achieve peace with GOONS, the longer you fight, the worse it is for you.

[SirWilliam]

BloodFury, I think he thinks you're a Goon...

[BloodFury]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1350015579' post='3040387']
BloodFury, I think he thinks you're a Goon...
[/quote]

We are all GOONS, just trying to make our way along the cold dark long forgotten road that was once The Unjust Path.

[DoorNail]

your reading comprehension needs some work, obviously they cannot go to peace mode after being attacked..why would an order of peace mode go out for the entire alliance to go into peace mode?


you can't explain your way out of this, you've botched any kind of honorable moves since the beginning.

when are you going to let us loose from war?

[BloodFury]

[quote name='DoorNail' timestamp='1350016812' post='3040397']
your reading comprehension needs some work, obviously they cannot go to peace mode after being attacked..why would an order of peace mode go out for the entire alliance to go into peace mode?


you can't explain your way out of this, you've botched any kind of honorable moves since the beginning.

when are you going to let us loose from war?
[/quote]

Go to the GOONS forum and ask for peace and they will give you terms, it really isn't that hard.

[DoorNail]

[quote name='BloodFury' timestamp='1350017000' post='3040398']
Go to the GOONS forum and ask for peace and they will give you terms, it really isn't that hard.
[/quote]

I've got Idea..why don't you go to GOONS forums and ask for peace, I hear it really isn't that hard.

[KenMorningstar]

[quote name='DoorNail' timestamp='1350017186' post='3040400']


I've got Idea..why don't you go to GOONS forums and ask for peace, I hear it really isn't that hard.


[/quote]

I have to admit its harder when you go onto our forums drunk like you did and start insulting all of use with multiple posts one after the other.

[DoorNail]

[quote name='Tir Nan Og' timestamp='1350017306' post='3040401']
I have to admit its harder when you go onto our forums drunk like you did and start insulting all of use with multiple posts one after the other.
[/quote]

you had fun, this is what you sought when you raided..not the results you expected?

were we supposed to get in line for our GOON assimilation training?

how about run out and get a protector?

who says we have to do what you say?

you gonna make me?

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1349998967' post='3040234']
What you are failing to grasp is the initial question of the argument. "Why was GOONS at war". The answer to that question serves as the basis of every argument that descends from it. And the answer is simple. You initiated wars on nations who did nothing to justify it except making the mistake of being without an AA, or on unprotected AA's. Yes, this invites raiding. My own alliance does it from time to time. The difference though is you guys assume that you can just declare war on people and then act like nobody has the right to do something about it.

The nations you raided were involved with various economic and personal ties with Mongols. So they helped them out. You viewed this as Casus Belli, on the assumption that assisting raid targets is an attack on your entire alliance. I should point out at this point, that GOONS alone among the raiding alliances has this policy. You advanced that policy to its conclusion, even after Mongols secured an alliance. You can argue the timing all you want. They did secure it before you declared war and you declared anyhow. The result should not have been a surprise to anyone.

I am not trying to be dense here. In fact, I think I am being quite clear. Your policy of alliance sanctioned raiding lands you in Hot Water. The events of the last year speak for that. I said in March, I am saying it again now. Every other raiding alliance refuses to extend AA protection and sanction to a raider. You are unique, and your fervent effort to hype that uniqueness causes more trouble then it solves, and one day I am absolutely certain you will step on a landmine far more dangerous then Kaskus and PPO.
[/quote]

It's nice to know that a third party aiding enemies isn't a big deal to you. Which was exactly the issue with Mongols that you seem to be ignoring completely. If somebody began to aid the nations you were at war with (be it a tech raid or often in our case, against rogues) you would go to the offending party and ask that they stop, at the very least, if not ask for equal compensation for the aid that was sent and should they absolutely refuse to cooperate, the situation escalates and will continue to do so until the natural conclusion is reached. That inaction you seem to champion condones the inevitable proxy-wars which are a threat to the security of your alliance and will inevitably follow as a result of such a policy. Like it or not we will never condone such a behavior and we will always respond to these acts.

As for those nations that had 'economic' ties to the Mongols, they should have displayed the proper signs of being protected if such protection existed. They didn't. It didn't.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Emperor Marx

[KenMorningstar]

No I keep my nation tiny so I can nuke people under 10k NS. But when you get down here yeah, I will make you hurt. Everything I have can be rebuilt in one round of aid. You not so much.

[DoorNail]

[quote name='Tir Nan Og' timestamp='1350017926' post='3040412']
No I keep my nation tiny so I can nuke people under 10k NS. But when you get down here yeah, I will make you hurt. Everything I have can be rebuilt in one round of aid. You not so much.
[/quote]

Right, I look forward to it to shutting you down in one hit then

[b]To:[/b] [url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=107426"]rogerwilco[/url] [b] From:[/b] [url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=227703"]DoorNail[/url] [b]Date: [/b]10/11/2012 12:01:11 AM

[b]Subject: [/b]Nuclear Attack

[b]Message:[/b] Your nation has been attacked with nuclear weapons by DoorNail. Your fallout shelters have limited the damage caused by this attack. You lost 30065 soldiers, 3778 defending tanks, 0 cruise missiles, 65.940 miles of land, 149.817 technology, 449.451 infrastructure, 50% of your aircraft, and 18% of your nuclear vulnerable navy force. In addition to these losses your nation will experience several days of economic devastation.

[Don Chele]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1350013290' post='3040350']
Not quite. We feel alliances may exist, certainly, but don't recognize entities as such if they don't have formal relations and if they don't exceed a certain membercount.
[/quote]

As I said, the definition of what constitutes an alliance is not defined by the GOONS charter. Your raiding policies are, and you are following those here. This is an alliance if they say they are an alliance, and they do not have to comply with your raiding policies in order to exist. However, until more people are willing to place their infra behind their principles, I don't deny the fact that you have no incentive to change your policies. Don't be disingenuous, though, and pretend that the definitions in your alliance's raiding policy are universally accepted as what is and what is not an alliance deserving sovereignty.