Quick Announcement

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Tir Nan Og' timestamp='1349990691' post='3040176']
Does 1200 tech sound fair to you? Cause I will take it.
[/quote]

I don't think you're in the position to discuss that, I'd have no problem in paying a [i]fair[/i] cash price for him. That's a legit offer providing he's not being mugged with the price.


1200 converted into cash would be acceptable, you're so generous. where were you when they wanted money off me?

Edited October 11, 2012 by Hiro Nakara

[DoorNail]

you want to be a thug alliance, I guess that's your right to do so..but don't try to play like you didn't cause all of this.


If I had the money, I most certainly would continue giving you the beat down that you deserve. But like I said, my point has been made and you can't take that away. my nukes did more damage to your alliance than 50 raids can do...enjoy, I did that

Edited October 11, 2012 by DoorNail

[mattski133]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1349990818' post='3040178']
I don't think you're in the position to discuss that, I'd have no problem in paying a [i]fair[/i] cash price for him. That's a legit offer providing he's not being mugged with the price.
[/quote]

wellll you're gonna have to outbid PPO.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1349991091' post='3040181']
wellll you're gonna have to outbid PPO.
[/quote]

lol what's their offer for him?

[mattski133]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1349991148' post='3040182']
lol what's their offer for him?
[/quote]

something like 45mil and a figure of technology in ballpark of 300-1200.

[KenMorningstar]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1349990818' post='3040178']
1200 converted into cash would be acceptable, you're so generous. where were you when they wanted money off me?
[/quote]

It must be tech and sent to rogerwilco Cash doesnt help him, tech does since it got nuked away.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1349990309' post='3040166']
That's just completely honorless.
[/quote]

Your opinion, and the weight it conveys, has been duly noted. Of course should you have a problem with it you can steer clear of actions similar to DoorNail's or you can work to force it's changing. Or you can do nothing and continue sounding off as if it really matters.

[I wanted to point out how hilarious it was for one Starfox101, member of The Combine, to talk about reputation, but such a route is too predictable and far too easy.]


Hiro, as much as we'd love for you to (again?) line our pockets, Lurunin is handling this rather well actually.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1349991344' post='3040183']
something like 45mil and a figure of technology in ballpark of 300-1200.
[/quote]

So roughly about 81 million in monetary terms? Are they allowed to convert the Tech into cash to pay?


[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1349991834' post='3040189']
Your opinion, and the weight it conveys, has been duly noted. Of course should you have a problem with it you can steer clear of actions similar to DoorNail's or you can work to force it's changing. Or you can do nothing and continue sounding off as if it really matters.

[I wanted to point out how hilarious it was for one Starfox101, member of The Combine, to talk about reputation, but such a route is too predictable and far too easy.]


[b]Hiro, as much as we'd love for you to (again?) line our pockets, Lurunin is handling this rather well actually. [/b]
[/quote]

I wouldn't want to have robbed you of the chance to come up with a plan to get me to default. Can't say I'm not fair giving you a second bite of the cherry. Well done Lurunin on sorting this.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Hiro Nakara

[Lurunin]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1349991344' post='3040183']
something like 45mil and a figure of technology in ballpark of 300-1200.
[/quote]

45mil/300t...dont know where that other inflation came from o.O

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1349990421' post='3040170']
We're the worst. But seriously we have been at war for like 50% of this year already, and somehow have a BAD war reputation?
[/quote]

No. You don't understand. No one is afraid of you at all. You are easily in the top five of alliances I would objectively want to face in a war because of your track record.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1349992258' post='3040193']
45mil/300t...dont know where that other inflation came from o.O
[/quote]

I think they're just spit balling.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1349992291' post='3040194']
No. You don't understand. No one is afraid of you at all. You are easily in the top five of alliances I would objectively want to face in a war because of your track record.
[/quote]

[color=#505050][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][center][b]Alliance Name:[/b][/center][/size][/font][/color][color=#818181][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][center]R&R[/center][/size][/font][/color]

[Starfox101]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1349990421' post='3040170']
We're the worst. But seriously we have been at war for like 50% of this year already, and somehow have a BAD war reputation? Is war around here like one of those things where as long as you don't fight you won't be perceived as being terrible at it? Cause by all accounts we've faced some of the toughest alliances in this place.

It's likely we'd be a smoking crater without our allies but you could say that about anyone.
[/quote]
How many wars have you fought where the outcome wasn't expected to be a win? How many wars were 3 on 1 tech raids? Now I've personally never fought you, but I've never heard of the vaunted GOONS war machine, and I witnessed you call in Pandora's Box on a micro alliance that gave you quite a licking. Do you really think you are a great warfighting alliance?

That could be said about anyone, but to what degree? If, say, House Baratheon canceled all their treaties, what would happen? FAN canceled all their treaties, and they didn't get hit. If GOONS canceled all their treaties there would be an entire coalition after them. You shield your actions with your allies strength and there is no truth but that.

[quote name='Tir Nan Og' timestamp='1349990616' post='3040174']
Im not going to really get into this again but repost from a long time ago and everytime this happens.

Our charter does not recognize 6 man AA's as alliances. Without protection they are raid targets. He came out nuking and crying on our forums, therefore since he isnt part of recognized alliance and using nuclear weapons, he would be a nuclear rogue in our eyes, thus EOG. He didnt react to the people who were raiding, it wasnt retaliation by the nations being raided. He declared and started nuking a completely different nation. This is a nuke rogue to us.

I know its hard to understand that simple logic, but I believe you can do it.
[/quote]
You speak of logic then deny the very idea of logic. Is it not logical that he retailiated when his friends were attacked? Is he supposed to play by your rules and understand that he can't hit back because of your charter rules? Do you even expect him to read it?

You guys honestly seem offended that he defended his alliance. I understand you are used to terrible leadership, but that's not excuse for this type of sheer ignorance.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1349991834' post='3040189']
[I wanted to point out how hilarious it was for one Starfox101, member of The Combine, to talk about reputation, but such a route is too predictable and far too easy.]
[/quote]
By saying that, you essentially did what you said you weren't going to do in the same sentence.

[Groucho Marx]

Yeah, a micro alliance of 35 guys well built in the medium-upper ranges with WRCs that were only a problem after we knocked them down under 20K ns. And before that, we've fought a multitude of alliances. Even at one point a dozen at once. And we won. So please stop it with that sensationalist garbage. It's so old and worn out like The Combine is.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1349991944' post='3040190']
I wouldn't want to have robbed you of the chance to come up with a plan to get me to default. Can't say I'm not fair giving you a second bite of the cherry.
[/quote]

Not sure what you're referring to - or if I'm the Sir [insert numerous symbols here] that you mentioned - but you've generally factored very, very little into my plans (I don't mean that as an insult, just saying).

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1349993063' post='3040202']
I understand you are used to terrible leadership
[/quote]

Indeed. We deal with it on a frequent basis after all. Case in point: The talking heads that are popping up in this thread.

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1349993063' post='3040202']
By saying that, you essentially did what you said you weren't going to do in the same sentence.
[/quote]

Bravo, you [i]got[/i] it. You get a cookie.

Edited October 11, 2012 by SirWilliam

[mattski133]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1349993063' post='3040202']
How many wars have you fought where the outcome wasn't expected to be a win? How many wars were 3 on 1 tech raids? Now I've personally never fought you, but I've never heard of the vaunted GOONS war machine, and I witnessed you call in Pandora's Box on a micro alliance that gave you quite a licking. Do you really think you are a great warfighting alliance?

That could be said about anyone, but to what degree? If, say, House Baratheon canceled all their treaties, what would happen? FAN canceled all their treaties, and they didn't get hit. If GOONS canceled all their treaties there would be an entire coalition after them. You shield your actions with your allies strength and there is no truth but that.
[/quote]

Ah man you guys like throwing that term micro-alliance around. 30-40 top-tier nations, backed financially and militarily by NEW is not a micro alliance. And if you ask around I think you'll find plenty of people who would say we lost to FnKa/Ninjas and Kaskus/Mongols, the outcome of which I was personally very concerned about since we did decide to fight them as much on our own as possible. We're not a great fighting alliance, but we're not "top five worst". And if we had a year to grow like most alliances, we'd look much bigger, like most alliances.

Everyone shields their actions with their allies. It's how things work around here. But apparently our time is running short, so we will see how goons performs when the outcome is "undecided", otherwise we're just speculating.

[Aeros]

In all fairness, you guys were backed financially by MK. Not just financially either, since the Kaskus war started when MK was ghosting your AA to keep you guys in sanction range. So lets not pretend that NEW made an iota of difference. Lets also not forget that in that wondrous little episode, there was no doubt that Mongols was a Kaskus protectorate and you declared war on them anyhow. Either you expected Kaskus to roll over and play dead, or else you thought it would be an easy curb stomping. Months of war later you brought in the most powerful military alliance that existed at the time to bring the war to a close rather then admit you started a war you did not have the power to finish.

[SirWilliam]

This thread is now about GOONS and the GOONS/Kaskus War. This is one of several dozen such threads.

Good work, all.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1349994501' post='3040214']
In all fairness, you guys were backed financially by MK. Not just financially either, since the Kaskus war started when MK was ghosting your AA to keep you guys in sanction range. So lets not pretend that NEW made an iota of difference. Lets also not forget that in that wondrous little episode, there was no doubt that Mongols was a Kaskus protectorate and you declared war on them anyhow. Either you expected Kaskus to roll over and play dead, or else you thought it would be an easy curb stomping. Months of war later you brought in the most powerful military alliance that existed at the time to bring the war to a close rather then admit you started a war you did not have the power to finish.
[/quote]

Kaskus wasn't known to be protecting Mongols until a few hours before we declared war after negotiations with the Mongols fell through. Negotiations that were taking place because of the Mongols' blatant disregard for our more than reasonable attempt at diplomatic efforts to prevent a war. Kaskus decided to get involved and that did not change the equation for us. The Mongols had repeatedly aided nations at war with GOONS in spite of being asked to stop and they refused to settle the matter. The war was guaranteed and it was not a curbstomp that we sought out but rather one that they brought upon themselves. Initially Kaskus had implied that they would not become involved in any fighting and later changed their minds.

Kaskus had well built nations our lower tiers simply could not compete with. When we knocked them down our MP-less, SDI-less sub-20K nations suffered most of that blunt force. NEW's financial aid prevented us from bill-locking several of their nations, and foreign fighters from NEW added even more pressure on our lower tier. A lower tier that was not equipped to handle nuclear capable, WRC-bearing nations. Pandora's Box was brought in to prevent an already decided war from being drawn out any longer than it needed to be. You're right that we received financial support, and in the end we would have been able to indefinitely fund our lower tier while Kaskus depleted their own funds, eventually fizzling out. Nothing short of NEW actually entering the war would have guaranteed the victory for Kaskus assuming there were no other factors at play. PB merely brought the war to a close much sooner. Their assistance was greatly appreciated.

NEW's rogue members made a lot of difference. As they struggled to control their own membership, they were very pleasant to deal with, and their cooperation in settling that problem is greatly appreciated.

I know the full story doesn't make for good sound bites, but I expect someone such as yourself to not be so dense about a very clear cut matter.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Emperor Marx

[mattski133]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1349995155' post='3040217']
This thread is now about GOONS and the GOONS/Kaskus War. This is one of several dozen such threads.

Good work, all.
[/quote]

i have shamed my family.

anyway here's hoping we can avoid the coalition that is waiting in the wings to destroy us this time.

[KenMorningstar]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1349993063' post='3040202']

You speak of logic then deny the very idea of logic. Is it not logical that he retailiated when his friends were attacked? Is he supposed to play by your rules and understand that he can't hit back because of your charter rules? Do you even expect him to read it?

You guys honestly seem offended that he defended his alliance. I understand you are used to terrible leadership, but that's not excuse for this type of sheer ignorance.
[/quote]

You see offence where there is none. Its realy not that hard. He can do whatever he wants. But according to our rules, we can EOG him. He doesnt have to do anything after that but fight or answer peace terms. I don't have any malice towards him for atacking us. Hell I have been at constant war with Stonewall Jaxon for like 2 months now since he is an EoG and I stay small to keep him from nuking the hell out of our babby nations.Whenever he comes out fo peace Im there to grab his attention and keep him from wrcking tiny guys with no punishment. But he and I keep our PMs pretty civil and its fun. In the end he will decide to just die or will accept our peace terms, however he sees fit. Supercoolyellow is in the same boat, he can ask for peace terms at any time as well. Both these guys are rogues by our definition.

Now Doornail is too. He chose to make a decision to nuke a nation because he felt it was the right thing to do. Great for hi, thats awesome. But the consequences of those actions and choices are our actions, which is to declare him in our eyes a nuclear rogue and an EOG. That has nothing to do with malice of being offended, it just is what we do. Now since he is so big and our Umbrella friends ahd a grudge anyway they get to kick his teeth in for a bit until he surrenders. No one offended over here. In fact we are all happy. We love watching nations burn.

[Aeros]

[quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1349995327' post='3040218']

I know the full story doesn't make for good sound bites, but I expect someone such as yourself to not be so dense about a very clear cut matter.
[/quote]

What you are failing to grasp is the initial question of the argument. "Why was GOONS at war". The answer to that question serves as the basis of every argument that descends from it. And the answer is simple. You initiated wars on nations who did nothing to justify it except making the mistake of being without an AA, or on unprotected AA's. Yes, this invites raiding. My own alliance does it from time to time. The difference though is you guys assume that you can just declare war on people and then act like nobody has the right to do something about it.

The nations you raided were involved with various economic and personal ties with Mongols. So they helped them out. You viewed this as Casus Belli, on the assumption that assisting raid targets is an attack on your entire alliance. I should point out at this point, that GOONS alone among the raiding alliances has this policy. You advanced that policy to its conclusion, even after Mongols secured an alliance. You can argue the timing all you want. They did secure it before you declared war and you declared anyhow. The result should not have been a surprise to anyone.

I am not trying to be dense here. In fact, I think I am being quite clear. Your policy of alliance sanctioned raiding lands you in Hot Water. The events of the last year speak for that. I said in March, I am saying it again now. Every other raiding alliance refuses to extend AA protection and sanction to a raider. You are unique, and your fervent effort to hype that uniqueness causes more trouble then it solves, and one day I am absolutely certain you will step on a landmine far more dangerous then Kaskus and PPO.

[DoorNail]

[quote name='Tir Nan Og' timestamp='1349995533' post='3040221']
You see offence where there is none. Its realy not that hard. He can do whatever he wants. But according to our rules, we can EOG him. He doesnt have to do anything after that but fight or answer peace terms. I don't have any malice towards him for atacking us. Hell I have been at constant war with Stonewall Jaxon for like 2 months now since he is an EoG and I stay small to keep him from nuking the hell out of our babby nations.Whenever he comes out fo peace Im there to grab his attention and keep him from wrcking tiny guys with no punishment. But he and I keep our PMs pretty civil and its fun. In the end he will decide to just die or will accept our peace terms, however he sees fit. Supercoolyellow is in the same boat, he can ask for peace terms at any time as well. Both these guys are rogues by our definition.

Now Doornail is too. He chose to make a decision to nuke a nation because he felt it was the right thing to do. Great for hi, thats awesome. But the consequences of those actions and choices are our actions, which is to declare him in our eyes a nuclear rogue and an EOG. That has nothing to do with malice of being offended, it just is what we do. Now since he is so big and our Umbrella friends ahd a grudge anyway they get to kick his teeth in for a bit until he surrenders. No one offended over here. In fact we are all happy. We love watching nations burn.
[/quote]

When you announce anyone out here for your "list", you are officially making a statement that all alliances must recognize, because you're GOONS. You are attempting to apply a part of your Charter to the world in doing so.

I nor anyone else outside of your alliance has to acknowledge any part of any list you make..it may have happened for you in the past, but now it's time to stop. Do you think you own Black Team? Your sanctions have spit in the face of good, honest senators as well as every black team member that you have been raiding.

Your FA is fantastic according to you..If it's so great, then why does your alliance look like crap now?

[KenMorningstar]

Yeah it's official it's even on our public forums

http://cngoons.com/board/index.php?topic=6043.30

That's the EoG list. Stop being intentionally dense you were in Umbrella you know how this works, don't play stupid now.

[Scorponok]

[quote name='DoorNail' timestamp='1350000382' post='3040251']


When you announce anyone out here for your "list", you are officially making a statement that all alliances must recognize, because you're GOONS. You are attempting to apply a part of your Charter to the world in doing so.

I nor anyone else outside of your alliance has to acknowledge any part of any list you make..it may have happened for you in the past, but now it's time to stop. Do you think you own Black Team? Your sanctions have spit in the face of good, honest senators as well as every black team member that you have been raiding.

Your FA is fantastic according to you..If it's so great, then why does your alliance look like crap now?
[/quote]

Join another team then. It'll save you the sanctions.

[DoorNail]

[quote name='Tir Nan Og' timestamp='1350000858' post='3040255']
Yeah it's official it's even on our public forums

[url="http://cngoons.com/board/index.php?topic=6043.30"]http://cngoons.com/b...p?topic=6043.30[/url]

That's the EoG list. Stop being intentionally dense you were in Umbrella you know how this works, don't play stupid now.
[/quote]

just because I know about it, doesn't mean I have to acknowledge it. Right now no list you make is going to affect anything I do or say, sorry to pop your bubble.

Answer the questions please...Do you own Black Team?