Indian Bob Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1330413304' post='2929843'] I just came to giggle at the latest Schat thread. I guess we had been losing our touch, since it had been a while since Schat had an emotional breakdown on our account. So it's good to see him revived. I'm also genuinely curious what percent of Schat's threads are about GOONs. Also, number of words: 1511. The extremely harsh terms we imposed on MONGOLS was a 1000 word essay. Just saying. Okay, toodles! [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisyayL3.jpg[/img] [/quote] Very amusing how your "terms" come sounding very innocent, just write 1000 word essay, but you leave out the part where it's going to be "graded"? Or the part where it's not even going to be read beyond the first sentence and then rejected? Do whatever you want, you've certainly earned it by positioning yourselves well in the world at large but quit trying to spin things to make it look like the mercy board is a reasonable option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChaos Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Well written and I know I'm going to get people trying to start with me about this but I agree fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktarthan Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1330543332' post='2930703'] I really don't see how you mentally equate treaties with identity. Identity is entirely [i]internal[/i], and while some alliances would be, as Beefspari said, "nothing" without treaties, those alliances are nothing more than masses of accumulated strength with no distinct identity or defining characteristics other than their incompetent leaderships and utter lack of ambition. Even without the handful treaties we have, even if those treaties had never been signed or even considered, the Cult of Justitia would still retain enough character that I guarantee this topic would still happen. Of course, this may be more difficult to understand for GOONS; if you had no treaties I believe you would change your tone quite handily in the public forums, and the way you do business would change entirely. I suppose I place too much weight on the characteristics of integrity and independence. [/quote] Wow, it's been a while since I've been on the OWF merry-go-round. I really enjoyed your attempt to lecture GOONS and ex-GOONS on their own culture, but I'd like to get off the ride now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Holton Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1330546357' post='2930724'] Your own leader just gave you the example. I didn't say you wouldn't go to war all the time if you " could get away with it". I just said I've never seen you go to war when you "couldn't get away with it". Do you have an example of a time GOONS went to war and faced the possibility of a loss? edit: sorry double negative. [/quote] I can see reasoning behind calling out Sparta or someone for not running into a losing war- but GOONS doesn't strike me as someone to not goto war due to a potential for loss. Just saying. They are in fact the opposite in my mind- thus the lower tier they possess. They're tied at the hip with the current power sphere and haven't lost recently because of it. They /have/ taken heavy hits though and have never paused to jump into conflict. lol questioning a doomhouse member on their commitment to "Everything. Must. Die.". What's wrong with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Tiber Septim' timestamp='1330547602' post='2930741'] I can see reasoning behind calling out Sparta or someone for not running into a losing war- but GOONS doesn't strike me as someone to not goto war due to a potential for loss. Just saying. They are in fact the opposite in my mind- thus the lower tier they possess.[/quote] What's so funny about that is Sparta just lost a war, even while they had ways out. [quote] They're tied at the hip with the current power sphere and haven't lost recently because of it. They /have/ taken heavy hits though and have never paused to jump into conflict. [/quote] Except Gibs and Sardonic just gave you a specific example of a conflict they passed up. So we'll just have to say that their reputation hasn't quite been earned, yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1330546310' post='2930722'] Actually, I logged out of the OWF after I posted the OP and have been reading the responses to see where it would go. It's been an interesting and rewarding experience/experiment. Thus far, the OP hasn't needed any defending, anyway. [/quote] Ah yes, the traditional "your arguments are so far below me they are not worth responding to" defense. So predictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330548327' post='2930748'] Ah yes, the traditional "your arguments are so far below me they are not worth responding to" defense. So predictable. [/quote] If you don't stop putting words in my mouth that make yourself angry we're never going to be friends. Far from your speculations about my attitude, it is simply that there have been some interesting points raised and they have been discussed well, but the arguments thus far have mostly been tangential to the OP--as Mergerberger pointed out--and I have felt no need to get involved in them. The argument in the OP itself I have felt no need to defend thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jaym Il Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1330547779' post='2930742'] Except Gibs and Sardonic just gave you a specific example of a conflict they passed up. So we'll just have to say that their reputation hasn't quite been earned, yet. [/quote] It's not really a good example though, unless you are assuming they would have lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Kim Jaym Il' timestamp='1330548795' post='2930752'] It's not really a good example though, unless you are assuming they would have lost. [/quote] Do you have an example in which they went to war while the outcome wasn't certain? Overall it doesn't matter, because I've spoken about this situation over and over again and I always get the same answers. Edited February 29, 2012 by Omniscient1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1330548632' post='2930749'] If you don't stop putting words in my mouth that make yourself angry we're never going to be friends. Far from your speculations about my attitude, it is simply that there have been some interesting points raised and they have been discussed well, but the arguments thus far have mostly been tangential to the OP--as Mergerberger pointed out--and I have felt no need to get involved in them. The argument in the OP itself I have felt no need to defend thus far. [/quote] Really, don't you find the argument in the OP more than a little pedantic? Even if I affirmed your primary assertions, which I don't, it's not like it's some massive faux pas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jaym Il Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1330548978' post='2930753'] Do you have an example in which they went to war while the outcome wasn't certain? Overall it doesn't matter, because I've spoken about this situation over and over again and I always get the same answers. [/quote] The problem is that's an unfair question to ask, and is the kind of thing people have been poorly attempting to use to take shots at your own alliance for years. The lack of opportunity does not indicate a lack of willingness to jump in. A better question would be, do you have an example in which they should have went to war while the outcome wasn't certain, but didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Kim Jaym Il' timestamp='1330549513' post='2930760'] A better question would be, do you have an example in which they should have went to war while the outcome wasn't certain, but didn't? [/quote] I already gave an example. Also, it's pretty boring playing "no you" the entire time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jaym Il Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 I'm pretty sure we covered the fact that it was a bad example though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Kim Jaym Il' timestamp='1330549898' post='2930767'] I'm pretty sure we covered the fact that it was a bad example though! [/quote] NO YOU! You don't even have an example. Yours is worse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1330545810' post='2930718'] I didn't imply it did. If you had kept reading (which how you can even stop reading mid-sentence is beyond me; I always have to finish reading a complete thought before moving on), you would see that I mentioned age because I referenced a time before he was around. When talking about historical events, age is relevant. As someone whose first nation came to be in late 2007 (iirc, I'm not into anniversaries and all that jazz), I'd be too young to understand references regarding the Great Wars, and likewise Beef appears too young to remember the War of the Coalition or its buildup. Also, if Sardonic and other goons wish to reply to previous posts in the topic, my response will be delayed because fear of Roqstalking the topic (which is a term I invented for being the author of every second post in a given topic for an extended period) is forcing me to bow out for a short spell. [/quote] I'm still not seeing your point. Being around for events long ago has no bearing on a person's grasp of the current political climate. I'm not too young to understand references to the Great Wars. That doesn't make me immune to good points within an argument, but only serves as a distraction from the actual topic og contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jaym Il Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 As long as you're aware you sound just like the "Optional Defense Network" camp, carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 That's fine with me, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Jaxon Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='nippy' timestamp='1330550191' post='2930771'] I'm still not seeing your point. Being around for events long ago has no bearing on a person's grasp of the current political climate. I'm not too young to understand references to the Great Wars. That doesn't make me immune to good points within an argument, but only serves as a distraction from the actual topic og contention. [/quote] Of course it does. If I compare GOONS to Valhalla and GGA under Pacifica, which I did, how is a young player going to come close to grasping that? Beyond that, historical events are what create the current political climate, so to say that experience does not help one assess current situations is plainly wrong. Example: Pandora's Box, SuperFriends, and CnG all form one massive treaty web which pointedly excludes Pacifica and Polaris. To protect themselves from being rolled individually, shouldn't the two make some sort of treaty? I mean they share an acronym. It only makes sense! Duh, nippy. History matters here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1330553160' post='2930787'] Example: Pandora's Box, SuperFriends, and CnG all form one massive treaty web which pointedly excludes Pacifica and Polaris. To protect themselves from being rolled individually, shouldn't the two make some sort of treaty? I mean they share an acronym. It only makes sense! [/quote] Such a treaty would only ensure that they would end up being rolled collectively. The lesson learned from Q was to treaty yourself to the ruling bloc and entangle the treaty web so that offensive action leads to divided loyalties. But I just proved your point that history does matter within this realm. Edited February 29, 2012 by Charles Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1330546357' post='2930724'] Your own leader just gave you the example. I didn't say you wouldn't go to war all the time if you " could get away with it". I just said I've never seen you go to war when you "couldn't get away with it". Do you have an example of a time GOONS went to war and faced the possibility of a loss? edit: sorry double negative. [/quote] They did once, and they lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1330556428' post='2930812'] They did once, and they lost. [/quote] That was: 1. Not our GOONS. 2. A deliberate effort on the part of certain elements of the old GOONS' government to throw everything away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330556674' post='2930814'] That was: 1. Not our GOONS. 2. A deliberate effort on the part of certain elements of the old GOONS' government to throw everything away. [/quote] Same mutt, different collar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1330556730' post='2930816'] Same mutt, different collar. [/quote] Hurr Durr, we have our own two plus year history. Judge us not for the sins of our ancestor, but on our own merits. Edited February 29, 2012 by Sardonic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330556799' post='2930818'] Hurr Durr, we have our own two plus year history. Judge us not for the sins of our ancestor, but on our own merits. [/quote] Oh the hypocrisy. I am sure NPO would have preferred to have had the same mercy shown a year ago. Edited February 29, 2012 by Charles Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1330556958' post='2930819'] I am sure NPO would have preferred to have had the same mercy shown a year ago. [/quote] NPO didn't disband; not exist for two years and then come back under different government you halfwit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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