ktarthan Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1329783846' post='2924856'] As far as I am aware, there is no available spy op in CN that gives me access to the UPN database. [/quote] There's also no spy op in CN that lets me pose as a new member in an enemy alliance, gain membership masks, and feed information back to my real alliance. I'm pretty sure that's still considered part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1329783846' post='2924856'] As far as I am aware, there is no available spy op in CN that gives me access to the UPN database. [/quote] Got a good hearty laugh from me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1329784699' post='2924859'] There's also no spy op in CN that lets me pose as a new member in an enemy alliance, gain membership masks, and feed information back to my real alliance. I'm pretty sure that's still considered part of the game. [/quote] Actually it's not part of the game, it's a service provided at someone's expense about the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktarthan Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1329785023' post='2924862'] Actually it's not part of the game, it's a service provided at someone's expense about the game. [/quote] That's like trying to argue that treaties and politics in general aren't part of the game. Technically you're right but it's not a good point because for a large number of people, the politics are what we actually "play". "The game" is everything that has been built around the literal [i]game[/i] of CyberNations. Forums and IRC channels have already been established as valid "IC" references, so I think it also follows that they can be considered part of the game's canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilrow Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pd73bassman Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1329773612' post='2924750'] Round three is up, AlmightyGrub v Slayer99 should be a good match. [/quote] This is a good one for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoMercy Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1329785455' post='2924867'] That's like trying to argue that treaties and politics in general aren't part of the game. Technically you're right but it's not a good point because for a large number of people, the politics are what we actually "play". "The game" is everything that has been built around the literal [i]game[/i] of CyberNations. Forums and IRC channels have already been established as valid "IC" references, so I think it also follows that they can be considered part of the game's canon. [/quote] I think the line was drawn by admin. He prohibited Viceroys overtaking CN Forums by receiving admin access. I think you can apply that on this case. Spys that sign up at foreign alliances do so as an IC action. They IC answer the interview questions, give their nation data, go through the academy and want to be an IC part of the community. bros however had OOC tasks. He maintained Forums and updated them. There is nothing IC when it comes to that. Admin, with his ruling, explicitly labeled !@#$@#$ with the Forums and the database as OOC action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Why didn't I make it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329817921' post='2925055'] Why didn't I make it? [/quote] They filled their seeds in reverse order it seems, save for a select few. Apparently they only had a limited amount of #1 seeds to give, Xiphosis took the last one. You hadn't started all of this before then, otherwise I'm sure they would've at least made room for a 3 seed for ya' Edited February 21, 2012 by IYIyTh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1329781753' post='2924825'] Do you have trouble differentiating between a person and their AA? Given that you replied to me with the plural "you", I'll suggest you work on that before you comment on [i]my[/i] interaction with the IC/OOC divide. [/quote] No, actually I don't have any trouble at all. That's why I commented on your interaction with it. [quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1329781753' post='2924825'] [color="#1C2837"][size="2"]What actions has bros taken that should be condemned OOC? [/quote][/size][/color] [size="2"][color="#1c2837"]Well, nevermind the potential pending biodad litigation, fooling around with peoples forums in an illicit manner isn't something that shouldn't be encouraged OOC as being "okay," because their actions happened to benefit them IC as well they still have some very OOC ramifications, like how it wouldn't make sense to encourage or to have bros host anothers forums or handle any sort of sensitive personal data.[/color][/size] [size="2"] [/size] [size="2"][color="#1c2837"]Forums are still very much Private property.[/color][/size] Edited February 21, 2012 by IYIyTh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1329821692' post='2925062'] potential pending biodad litigation [/quote] myth come back to planet earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Myth is on planet earth. The idea that someone can somehow interfere with the parenting of others regardless of the hypocrisy involved from the internet is preposterous given that we have people with varied belief systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1329781753' post='2924825']I'll suggest you work on that before you comment on [i]my[/i] interaction with the IC/OOC divide.[/quote] I will wave your flag to say that I don't think you're personally a trouble maker in that regard, and in fact you're a quality player IMHO. You should note that Myth didn't wrote "IC/OOC" divide, but he quoted your words about "in-game actions" vs "out-of-game opinions". I make this distinction as I very well recall you arguing that the IC/OOC line has little to do with right or wrong, having much more to do with fair play in games (a POV I agree with). Terminology aside, referencing the out-of-game grouping you more or less (appear to) "belong" to isn't completely off base: the lack of dissent (and playing along with "jokes") sometimes makes you look like you're willingly associated with stuff. While I personally fully support the notion that you're not like that, I am not sure that you have much ground to claim that the public should not associate you with that. On the topic of "spying": "IC" social engineering is of course OK, but spying on forums through technical means (either admin features or cracking), talking in general and not about bros's case (I don't know much of), is IMO [i]very bad[/i] for the game. One presenting oneself as a RL individual that provides technical help (either a paid professional or a volounteer) and then betraying the other party's trust is crossing the RL/game line in a very bad way. It's bad on a RL level (which has nothing to do with the game: let them sort it out by themselves) but it also tears the fabric of the game's pretence, which is a necessary condition to [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109250"]enjoy the game as a simulation[/url]. It doesn't leave the other party with any real option that doesn't break things even more. It's basically very unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329817921' post='2925055'] Why didn't I make it? [/quote] Because you were genuinely a great leader once upon a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 The problem is, you loathed that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329841154' post='2925154'] The problem is, you loathed that guy. [/quote] I don't see how that pertains to this discussion though. Just because you and I had our differences, doesn't mean you didn't turn Umbrella into a fantastic alliance; setting a new bar for excellency in CN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktarthan Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='NoMercy' timestamp='1329814995' post='2925049'] I think the line was drawn by admin. He prohibited Viceroys overtaking CN Forums by receiving admin access. I think you can apply that on this case. Spys that sign up at foreign alliances do so as an IC action. They IC answer the interview questions, give their nation data, go through the academy and want to be an IC part of the community. bros however had OOC tasks. He maintained Forums and updated them. There is nothing IC when it comes to that. Admin, with his ruling, explicitly labeled !@#$@#$ with the Forums and the database as OOC action. [/quote] As far as I know, bros didn't do anything malicious to the forums or database themselves. I guess you can disagree with me, but I think that accessing/intentionally gaining information that is restricted by IC conventions can only be considered an offense IC. Regardless of the method used to access it (as long as it's legal). Think about it this way: The only reason the info bros took was considered confidential is because of the game, so why should he be reprimanded anywhere other than the game? If I wanted to start a member's only gaming forum, and someone told me not to trust bros to do it because he had previously used his admin access to view information privy only to ~members of a Cybernations alliance he was not a part of~ I'd probably laugh in their face. [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1329821692' post='2925062'] No, actually I don't have any trouble at all. That's why I commented on your interaction with it. [/quote] Alright, consider my memory hazy. Remind me of my personal interaction with the IC/OOC divide. [quote] Well, nevermind the potential pending biodad litigation [/quote] When the subject of litigation over the biodad thread came up, bros (and other leadership, I'm assuming) took the wildly unpopular (within MK) route and complied with the request to have the thread deleted. [quote] fooling around with peoples forums in an illicit manner isn't something that shouldn't be encouraged OOC as being "okay," because their actions happened to benefit them IC as well they still have some very OOC ramifications, like how it wouldn't make sense to encourage or to have bros host anothers forums or handle any sort of sensitive personal data. Forums are still very much Private property. [/quote] I think I've stated my opinion on this fairly well above. Unless bros has taken actions that can be considered malicious from an OOC standpoint (I don't much care how he got the info, as long as it wasn't illegal) then I'll maintain my opinion that it should only have IC ramifications. People not wanting bros to admin their forums where they don't want him to see the information? Completely justified. People trying to paint every thing that bros is involved with in a negative light? Completely unjustified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) can you all shut the $%&@ up this thread was the only one on these forums i'd check and it didn't have your incessant whining and babbling. roq: no one cares about your legacy except you, it's an internet game, this is the internet. myth: you are the only person who likes you. every time you post people like you less james_dahl: i blocked your posts over a year ago so i'm not entirely sure what you're saying but no one gives a !@#$ ktarthan: put them all on ignore tyvm leet: get CK2 and play w/ me. Edited February 21, 2012 by Banksy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Myth, you;re getting WRECKED by NoWedge. Sorry dude this is end of the line for you Also, Xiph losing has cost Red of NPO 50 tech as per her on air bet w/ Pansy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329817921' post='2925055'] Why didn't I make it? [/quote] Because I got more nominations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuzaki Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329817921' post='2925055'] Why didn't I make it? [/quote] Because you only got one nomination. That put you down with the other 125 people who were nominated but not enough to make it into the bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1329856044' post='2925221'] Because I got more nominations. [/quote]So MK can't let anyone else win their awards? Even the bad ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 [quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1329983965' post='2926399'] So MK can't let anyone else win their awards? Even the bad ones? [/quote] I would've actually made a case for Ardus if it wouldn't have been counter-productive. He actually got a significant amount of votes, albeit joke votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1329984475' post='2926403']I would've actually made a case for Ardus if it wouldn't have been counter-productive. He actually got a significant amount of votes, albeit joke votes.[/quote]I am not sure if I would consider Ardus a bad leader. He has certainly acted like an !@#$%^&, whitewashed atrocious behavior, screwed over people who held him no ill will, and committed other morally questionable, if not utterly reprehensible, actions. But hey, that's what it means to be a leader of MK and under his tutelage MK did fairly well from a purely objective perspective. Whether that was good for the game, or something to celebrate, is another question entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1330029483' post='2926936'] and committed other morally questionable, if not utterly reprehensible, actions. [/quote] Such as? Because I have a feeling you're just reiterating the other points you just made, while trying to make them seem twice as bad as they really are. Edited February 23, 2012 by Leet Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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