Legion/Tetris War Stats

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1318919523' post='2827773']
Who knows, but it was the meme going around about Legion.
[/quote]
Since when? There was talk that they sucked, I don't remember people saying they would immediately collapse or anything.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1318919851' post='2827779']
Since when? There was talk that they sucked, I don't remember people saying they would immediately collapse or anything.
[/quote]

All the talk was about how crappy Legion was at war, how crappy their WCs were, and so on and so forth. Logic thus dictates that if Legion was this horrible at anything war related, they would collapse pretty quickly.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1318919851' post='2827779']
Since when? There was talk that they sucked, I don't remember people saying they would immediately collapse or anything.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Only Legion has been saying that. It gives them a weak (if nonexistent) argument that they can easily rebuke, given that they did not collapse after a single day like nobody expected. NSO has always recognized that this would be a challenge, not necessarily due to any skills had by Legion, only the sheer size of Legion in comparison to NSO.[/color]

[Timeline]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1318920609' post='2827786']
[color="#0000FF"]Only Legion has been saying that. It gives them a weak (if nonexistent) argument that they can easily rebuke, given that they did not collapse after a single day like nobody expected. NSO has always recognized that this would be a challenge, not necessarily due to any skills had by Legion, only the sheer size of Legion in comparison to NSO.[/color]
[/quote]

NSO still fighting this war alone then ?, not getting huge sums of aid (even before Legion got aid) not supported by 4 other alliances who also was getting huge sums of aid, once again NSO proclaims they are facing legion alone.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1318920609' post='2827786']
[color="#0000FF"]Only Legion has been saying that. It gives them a weak (if nonexistent) argument that they can easily rebuke, given that they did not collapse after a single day like nobody expected. NSO has always recognized that this would be a challenge, not necessarily due to any skills had by Legion, only the sheer size of Legion in comparison to NSO.[/color]
[/quote]
Yeah, that's what I figured. Kinda funny that Dochartaigh confirmed it as well.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1318920941' post='2827791']
Yeah, that's what I figured. Kinda funny that Dochartaigh confirmed it as well.
[/quote]

I was going for the logical line of thought when all you hear is how crappy an alliance is at anything relating to war. Once this war got even, if Legion was as crappy as formerly believed, it should have been relatively easy to force Legion to surrender. I mean, for that matter, all the talk about how Legion would hide in PM has been proven false in this war at least.

Personally, I have never been a huge fan of Legion but at least for this war, they have shown that what was said about them is not entirely true. Don't know much about their WCs but considering it is only going on the 3rd (?) round of wars, they seem to be holding out right now.

Though I am amused at how often over the past 2 weeks RV and others in NSO have brought out the "Legion going broke" bit. If Legion was going broke as fast as NSO is saying, at least half of Legion should be bill-locked right now.

I would say that this could be why Legionnaires are stating NSO is saying Legion would crumble quickly. Since again, logic dictates that an alliance that is bill-locked cannot fight back.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1318921385' post='2827796']
I was going for the logical line of thought when all you hear is how crappy an alliance is at anything relating to war. Once this war got even, if Legion was as crappy as formerly believed, it should have been relatively easy to force Legion to surrender. I mean, for that matter, all the talk about how Legion would hide in PM has been proven false in this war at least.

Personally, I have never been a huge fan of Legion but at least for this war, they have shown that what was said about them is not entirely true. Don't know much about their WCs but considering it is only going on the 3rd (?) round of wars, they seem to be holding out right now.

Though I am amused at how often over the past 2 weeks RV and others in NSO have brought out the "Legion going broke" bit. If Legion was going broke as fast as NSO is saying, at least half of Legion should be bill-locked right now.

I would say that this could be why Legionnaires are stating NSO is saying Legion would crumble quickly. Since again, logic dictates that an alliance that is bill-locked cannot fight back.
[/quote]
Yeah, I mean I'll admit they're doing better than I thought they would. That said, it seems to me it'd probably be better for them to actually respond to our criticisms instead of constructing that straw man to attack.

[Sabcat]

What are your criticisms? The only specific criticism that I recall is that we have no money and we're fast going broke.

Don't worry yourself, you won't have the war you love so much cut short because we have a lack of cash to fight it.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1318931014' post='2827847']
What are your criticisms? The only specific criticism that I recall is that we have no money and we're fast going broke.

Don't worry yourself, you won't have the war you love so much cut short because we have a lack of cash to fight it.
[/quote]
idk man, all I do is criticize, they kind of blend together. Mostly what I remember is your performance in past wars, especially the Doomhouse war, and the bad warchests exposed by the spy ops. I've seen a few Legionnaires that were close to running out of money, but as I remember most of the criticism of your warchests since the start of the war was on a general level, not saying that you're all about to be bill-locked.

And that's good to hear.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1318933031' post='2827852']
idk man, all I do is criticize, they kind of blend together. Mostly what I remember is your performance in past wars, especially the Doomhouse war, and the bad warchests exposed by the spy ops. I've seen a few Legionnaires that were close to running out of money, but as I remember most of the criticism of your warchests since the start of the war was on a general level, not saying that you're all about to be bill-locked.

And that's good to hear.
[/quote]

I get that this was fun in attempting to goad The Legion into attacking your ally when it was most convenient and then complaining about how it wasn't the curbstomp you wanted it to be, but now that The Legion is basically returning your punches and then some, wouldn't it make sense to at least give them credit or at the very least the Legion bashing a rest?

The past would seem to be irrelevant at this moment.

Edited October 18, 2011 by IYIyTh

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1318934741' post='2827857']
I get that this was fun in attempting to goad The Legion into attacking your ally when it was most convenient and then complaining about how it wasn't the curbstomp you wanted it to be, but now that The Legion is basically returning your punches and then some, wouldn't it make sense to at least give them credit or at the very least the Legion bashing a rest?

The past would seem to be irrelevant at this moment.
[/quote]
lol what. How can you make a post that is so off-base in so many aspects. Our goading was originally designed to goad them into attacking us, not our ally, and not at any 'most convenient' time. When they failed to do so we kept goading them because it was fun, not because we had some grand plan. We've complained about it not expanding yes, but not about it not being a curbstomp, and there is a difference there, no matter how much you want to ascribe your own motives to our actions. And my post wasn't Legion bashing, it was a response to Sabcat who asked what our criticisms were. I think I answered that relatively benignly. In fact my recent posts in this thread have been fairly benign. So why don't you get off your high horse and stop trying to act like your alliances stats make up for your complete lack of culture or character or history to be proud of.

Edited October 18, 2011 by WorldConqueror

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1318935250' post='2827860']
lol what. How can you make a post that is so off-base in so many aspects. Our goading was originally designed to goad them into attacking us, not our ally, and not at any 'most convenient' time. When they failed to do so we kept goading them because it was fun, not because we had some grand plan. We've complained about it not expanding yes, but not about it not being a curbstomp, and there is a difference there, no matter how much you want to ascribe your own motives to our actions. And my post wasn't Legion bashing, it was a response to Sabcat who asked what our criticisms were. I think I answered that relatively benignly. In fact my recent posts in this thread have been fairly benign. So why don't you get off your high horse and stop trying to act like your alliances stats make up for your complete lack of culture or character or history to be proud of.
[/quote]

As I said before, please don't insult the communities intelligence and more importantly my own and pretend like the "Legion couldn't beat us with <insert great odds here> advantage because <insert incompetence, poor alliance culture etc here>," banter never happened. Your goading was indeed an attempt to force them into an unfavorable war. The fact of the matter is once again your (and equally by extension your allies,) bravado left you in a poor political situation whereas you now are taking equal if not more damage compared to the alliance you once mocked. Since this is an OOC forum, I can't for the life of me figure out why other alliances would want to treaty you as you all seem to have an internal clock whereas if you haven't rolled yourself or been rolled in someone elses cause within a year you have to go out of your way to do it yourself, all the while putting their allies and themselves in quite the awkward position. Aside from that I actually like most of you and your style from an IC perspective. The fact of the matter is that there is usually a modicum of respect to be shown between opponents regardless of whatever the trumped up reason for war, and the "yeah well you guys suck," thing is just a little tired from my perspective.

Your last bit just further confirms that you've learned nothing from this (some would say humbling,) experience, nevermind how wrong it is.

Edited October 18, 2011 by IYIyTh

[Sabcat]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1318933031' post='2827852']
idk man, all I do is criticize, they kind of blend together. Mostly what I remember is your performance in past wars, especially the Doomhouse war, and the bad warchests exposed by the spy ops. I've seen a few Legionnaires that were close to running out of money, but as I remember most of the criticism of your warchests since the start of the war was on a general level, not saying that you're all about to be bill-locked.

And that's good to hear.
[/quote]

I've seen a few woeful NSO WC's, I've seen some impressive WC's. My criticism of NSO et al is that you've based your game on assumptions. Whether you admit it or not you never expected the fight to be the one that you're getting either in terms of the resolve of Legion members to take this to the very bitter end or the line up on each side of the war.

I'm not sure about the real truth behind the spying/Varianz's involvement and I don't know what your plan was - just that it wasn't this - You can't possibly be happy with the way things are going though. Whatever you might say.

Given the ferocity of this war, especially the rhetoric I can't see it ending until one side or the other is completely spent. Total war. Obviously I'm going to say that we'll win but I do actually believe it. Do you believe you can win?

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1318937781' post='2827870']
As I said before, please don't insult the communities intelligence and more importantly my own and pretend like the "Legion couldn't beat us with <insert great odds here> advantage because <insert incompetence, poor alliance culture etc here>," banter never happened. Your goading was indeed an attempt to force them into an unfavorable war. The fact of the matter is once again your bravado left you in a poor political situation whereas you now are taking equal if not more damage compared to the alliance you once mocked. Since this is an OOC forum, I can't for the life of me figure out why other alliances would want to treaty you as you all seem to have an internal clock whereas if you haven't rolled yourself or been rolled in someone elses cause within a year you have to go out of your way to do it yourself, and I actually like most of you and your style from an IC perspective. The fact of the matter is that there is usually a modicum of respect to be shown between opponents regardless of whatever the trumped up reason for war, and the "yeah well you guys suck," thing is just a little tired from my perspective.

Your last bit just further confirms that you've learned nothing from this (some would say humbling,) experience.
[/quote]
Why you think I care about you or your intelligence I don't know. Why you think you can keep putting up strawmen I don't know either. AFAIK we never said that Legion couldn't beat NSO, since we know how CN mechanics work, and numbers dictate that they would eventually win. You obviously know nothing of NSO. We like goading people. There doesn't have to be any underlying agenda for us to do it, we just do. Remember when we used to goad RIA, Darkfist and someone else I can't remember now constantly? What was our grand plan there? We just enjoy it. And we are supporting our allies in this war, that it happens to be against Legion is just a bonus.

And it comes as no surprise to me that you can't understand why some alliances like us. We actually do stuff. We are loud and abrasive and don't shy away from a fight. You are the complete opposite. All you've ever done is follow NPO around like a lost little puppy, then jump ship at the last moment. And then spend the over 2 years since then doing nothing except jump at the chance to cut a second 'eternal' treaty, basically hiding in the corner in case someone remembered that you never got your comeuppance for your hegemony past. And no, making announcements going 'lololol vogon poetry this is hilarious right?' doesn't help. Yes, we've done stupid things in the past, like the 6M war and aiding Methrage, but this is not one of them. We are defending an ally and we will continue to support our allies when they need it. Perhaps you could learn a thing or two from us. And no, there is rarely any respect between opponents, at least not the central opponents of a war. So to single us out as being horrible big meanies to Legion because we aren't all buddy buddy with them is frankly ridiculous.

And yes, we will continue to give crap to people. That's not something that's ever going to change for NSO. If we don't like you, you'll know it. Honestly, I'd prefer that someone say what they mean instead of being all smug and condescending by using fake politeness to try and mask their little digs. Man up, own your opinions and do something with those stats once in a while instead of trying to lord them over everyone else like they justify your existence.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1318937909' post='2827871']
I've seen a few woeful NSO WC's, I've seen some impressive WC's. My criticism of NSO et al is that you've based your game on assumptions. Whether you admit it or not you never expected the fight to be the one that you're getting either in terms of the resolve of Legion members to take this to the very bitter end or the line up on each side of the war.

I'm not sure about the real truth behind the spying/Varianz's involvement and I don't know what your plan was - just that it wasn't this - You can't possibly be happy with the way things are going though. Whatever you might say.

Given the ferocity of this war, especially the rhetoric I can't see it ending until one side or the other is completely spent. Total war. Obviously I'm going to say that we'll win but I do actually believe it. Do you believe you can win?
[/quote]
We had no plan. Varianz passed the screens along of his own accord, and Hereno posted them of his own accord. That said, we're here now, and we're going to enjoy it. I largely agree that it's going to go to the bitter end, and frankly I don't shy away from that. A long hard war is the greatest test of an alliance, and NSO has already come through a few of those, so I don't doubt our capabilities. The reason we bring up the Doomhouse war is that that suggests that you don't have the stomach for war that we do, since you took most of your alliance into peacemode for the duration.

And yes, we can win.

[Sabcat]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1318939765' post='2827882']
We had no plan. Varianz passed the screens along of his own accord, and Hereno posted them of his own accord. That said, we're here now, and we're going to enjoy it. I largely agree that it's going to go to the bitter end, and frankly I don't shy away from that. A long hard war is the greatest test of an alliance, and NSO has already come through a few of those, so I don't doubt our capabilities. The reason we bring up the Doomhouse war is that that suggests that you don't have the stomach for war that we do, since you took most of your alliance into peacemode for the duration.

And yes, we can win.
[/quote]

Then we'll see who's right in the end, in the meantime lets enjoy the fight.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1318939478' post='2827879']
Why you think I care about you or your intelligence I don't know. Why you think you can keep putting up strawmen I don't know either. AFAIK we never said that Legion couldn't beat NSO, since we know how CN mechanics work, and numbers dictate that they would eventually win. You obviously know nothing of NSO. We like goading people. There doesn't have to be any underlying agenda for us to do it, we just do. Remember when we used to goad RIA, Darkfist and someone else I can't remember now constantly? What was our grand plan there? We just enjoy it. And we are supporting our allies in this war, that it happens to be against Legion is just a bonus.

And it comes as no surprise to me that you can't understand why some alliances like us. We actually do stuff. We are loud and abrasive and don't shy away from a fight. You are the complete opposite. All you've ever done is follow NPO around like a lost little puppy, then jump ship at the last moment. And then spend the over 2 years since then doing nothing except jump at the chance to cut a second 'eternal' treaty, basically hiding in the corner in case someone remembered that you never got your comeuppance for your hegemony past. And no, making announcements going 'lololol vogon poetry this is hilarious right?' doesn't help. Yes, we've done stupid things in the past, like the 6M war and aiding Methrage, but this is not one of them. We are defending an ally and we will continue to support our allies when they need it. Perhaps you could learn a thing or two from us. And no, there is rarely any respect between opponents, at least not the central opponents of a war. So to single us out as being horrible big meanies to Legion because we aren't all buddy buddy with them is frankly ridiculous.

And yes, we will continue to give crap to people. That's not something that's ever going to change for NSO. If we don't like you, you'll know it. Honestly, I'd prefer that someone say what they mean instead of being all smug and condescending by using fake politeness to try and mask their little digs. Man up, own your opinions and do something with those stats once in a while instead of trying to lord them over everyone else like they justify your existence.
[/quote]


Your first paragraph: I know you care because you're still typing.

Your second: This is a profound statement, being ignoramus' and causing ruckus for the sake of it as being positive is by and far a delusion of grandeur. As for your misrepresentation and thoughts about my alliance which seemingly is a topic because it is in my alliance field rather being relevant in this situation, I'll just laugh. This of course is casting aside that your misrepresentation proposes an irony in that the MHA does what is in its own best interest regardless of their allies while championing that very logic in your first paragraph.

As for your third, I say what I mean quite clearly and I don't need to be arrogant to get my point acrossed. That, and where we're differing here is that so long as an opponent can treat others with respect they will find it returned.
Really, this conversation is kind of a microcosm of my entire point.

But back to how the Legion [s]sucks and is incompetent[/s] is simply larger than NSO.

Edited October 18, 2011 by IYIyTh

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1318941293' post='2827895']
Your first paragraph: I know you care because you're still typing.

Your second: This is a profound statement, being ignoramus' and causing ruckus for the sake of it as being positive is by and far a delusion of grandeur. As your for your misrepresentation and thoughts about my alliance which seemingly is a topic because it is in my alliance field rather being relevant in this situation, I'll just laugh. This of course is casting aside that your misrepresentation proposes an irony in that the MHA does what is in its own best interest regardless of their allies while championing that very logic in your first paragraph.

As for your third, I say what I mean quite clearly and I don't need to be arrogant to get my point acrossed. That, and where we're differing here is that so long as an opponent can treat others with respect they will find it returned.
Really, this conversation is kind of a microcosm of my entire point.

But back to how the Legion [s]sucks and is incompetent[/s] is simply larger than NSO.
[/quote]
lol. 'I know u care coz u replied'. Christ. My point was that you were saying I shouldn't argue a point because it apparently insults your intelligence. I was questioning why I would ever take that into consideration if I consider the argument I was making valid. 'My God, Myth doesn't like what I'm saying, the scales have fallen from my eyes and I see the error of my ways!'.

And then you go with the strawmen again, you really like those, don't you? That you have to characterize us as 'ruckus causing ignoramuses' in order to shore up your own self-concept is highly amusing. I said that we have done stupid things in the past, and we paid for them. That doesn't detract from the fact that we have done far more with far less than your alliance has ever done. I think you'll find that I specifically said we are supporting our allies, so I don't know where you are getting this crap that I'm supporting a course of doing what you want regardless of allies.

Right, so what's your point? That you want everyone to conform to your standards of discourse? Or just that you like trying to portray people as 'worse' than you by talking down to them for not doing so? I fail to see why anyone should make a show of respecting anyone. If they do respect them, that will show in their behaviour anyway. If they don't respect them, why should they fake it? Or are they just supposed to magically start respecting everyone they fight? This kind of crap is ultimately as baseless and ridiculous as the accusations of lack of class that are thrown around at political enemies. But enjoy playing headmaster!

[IYIyTh]

I'll ignore the first part since it isn't relevant to the discussion at hand. As for the second, I have made no straw-man. It is a representation of the behavior you state as a combination of self-interested and self-motivated baseless aggression and poor decisions that an alliance would atone for now and in the future. By and large that is how your (NSO,) actions are perceived. I view your actions in initially goading The Legion as the reason your ally in Tetris managed to grow the brass set of balls to chime in and eventually put you into an unfavorable situation that could have been avoided. Thus, from an outside perspective I put the blame equally on yourselves for the reason your ally needed protection in the first place. Not some situation where the only reason NSO is involved is to defend an ally, but because by and large they are more or less responsible for the origins of the situation.


My point is that everyone is capable of showing class, some just choose not to. I don't know why when it's not hard to do so, but I only question the lack of its presence as a means to hopefully encourage its adoption. It might even make people have a little more fun around here and more willing to engage in conversation. Hell, it might even improve an alliance.

Call me Socrates.

Edited October 18, 2011 by IYIyTh

[Commander shepard]

So far Legion appears to be "winning", I'm not sure how these CN battles go, but once you're on a losing streak with no back up does that mean you're just delaying your inevitable defeat.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1318939765' post='2827882']
We had no plan. Varianz passed the screens along of his own accord, and Hereno posted them of his own accord. That said, we're here now, and we're going to enjoy it. I largely agree that it's going to go to the bitter end, and frankly I don't shy away from that. A long hard war is the greatest test of an alliance, and NSO has already come through a few of those, so I don't doubt our capabilities. The reason we bring up the Doomhouse war is that that suggests that you don't have the stomach for war that we do, since you took most of your alliance into peacemode for the duration.

And yes, we can win.
[/quote]

Are you seriously trying to compare NSO, Tetris, and NsO to MK, Umbrella, and GOONS? Because your three alliances combined are not remotely close to even just GOONS in terms of military quality, let alone all of Doomhouse.

Also, going back to where you stated (in another post) that no one in NSO is stating Legion is about to be in bill-lock, reread RV here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=105774&view=findpost&p=2827696 where he states that Legion, as an alliance, is quickly going broke.

You guys really need to discuss your propaganda points with one another. RV is your main mouthpiece, you should really know what he is saying before you try to contradict your main mouthpiece. I get the whole, "Our members can have their own opinions" but then do not state that "NSO" did not say something.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1318960272' post='2827993']
Are you seriously trying to compare NSO, Tetris, and NsO to MK, Umbrella, and GOONS? Because your three alliances combined are not remotely close to even just GOONS in terms of military quality, let alone all of Doomhouse.

Also, going back to where you stated (in another post) that no one in NSO is stating Legion is about to be in bill-lock, reread RV here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=105774&view=findpost&p=2827696 where he states that Legion, as an alliance, is quickly going broke.

You guys really need to discuss your propaganda points with one another. RV is your main mouthpiece, you should really know what he is saying before you try to contradict your main mouthpiece. I get the whole, "Our members can have their own opinions" but then do not state that "NSO" did not say something.
[/quote]
...I'm not comparing us to them at all, not sure where you got that from. It was a comment on Legion, not the alliances fighting them.

And heh, we don't have a 'main mouthpiece'.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1318961809' post='2828017']
...I'm not comparing us to them at all, not sure where you got that from. It was a comment on Legion, not the alliances fighting them.

And heh, we don't have a 'main mouthpiece'.
[/quote]

You stated that Legion does not have a stomach for war because of their performance against Doomhouse. Your claim also implied that Legion would not have the stomach for war when facing Tetris, NSO, and NsO. Doomhouse has 3 alliances whose calibers are unreachable by Tetris, NSO, and NsO.

So, yes, you were comparing your three alliances to Doomhouse.

As for not having a "main mouthpiece", you may not think so but that does not mean that it is not true.

[Jacapo Saladin]

It's really going to be embarrassing for NSO when they surrender.

[Unknown Smurf]

[url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=103229&view=findpost&p=2746433]Protip NSO: Boasting loses its effectiveness when proven false. [/url]

Also, there were plenty of posts like [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=103283&view=findpost&p=2748863]this[/url] and [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=103283&view=findpost&p=2747925]this[/url] imply you believe you would win this war despite the statistical disadvantage.

Stop claiming you guys never said NSO would win this war before the war started, we're just too lazy to find the posts for the most part.