Sup, Legion?

[D34th]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1317655904' post='2814623']
The notion, as posed by some members of Legion, that Legion used a rotation method in their PM strategy is pretty BS. Athens was at war with Legion, and we watched, and waited, and monitored their top 80 from day 1 of the war. The final numbers, as compiled by Athens, that of the Legion top 80 at the MOMENT we declared war on them, 9 came out of Peace Mode in 2 months. We even had a countdown thread on our war forums for that number, as it dropped from 80 to 71. One thing you Legion folks cannot do, is even remotely suggest that your upper end fought in that war.

Some relevant numbers: Casualties of Legions top 15 nations....

#1 1561 days old 159,816 casualties. Has he EVER fought? Why is he even a member?
#2 1423 days old 1,752,404 casualties. Twice my age. 40% fewer casualties. Indication: Doesnt fight much.
#3 2023 days old 6,328,672 casualties. Give this man a medal.
#4 1972 days old 1,938,899 casualties. Same as #2. Yeah, he fights alot. Not.
#5 1785 days old 5,744,446 casualties. Same as #3. He should find an alliance that will appreciate him (as should #3).
#6 1233 days old Just over 2 million casualties. Same as #2 and #4
#7 630 days old 47,702(no this is not a typo) casualties... lol what?
#8 1173 days old 710,009 casualties. Yet another lol what moment.
#9 1304 days old 331,947 casualties. A real warrior. Not.
#10 1662 days old. 355,553 casualties. Are you kidding me?
#11 2028 days old 2,718,098 casualties. Kinda in the middle here, but for over 2000 days, should really have two or 3 times that many casualties. Tells me he ducks wars.
#12 1548 days old 2,539,733 casualties. Seems like a low number to me, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say MEH.
#13 1617 days old 289,741 casualties. LMAO Oh legion...
#14 1888 days old 1,205,664 casualties. Yeah, he hasnt seen a war since GW2. Wanna bet?
#15 1165 days old 1,215,053 casualties. 3 major wars, in 3 years, on average, means he fights a week a war. Ave Legio!
#16 1352 days old 112,269(nope not a typo) casualties. RAWR!
#17 1884 days old 1,314,809 casualties. 5 years. 7 major wars. 1.3 mil? Bio says "give me the strength to defend my pixels." What is there to defend when you clearly dont leave PM.
#18 1183 days old 501,228 casualties. Another brilliant Legion warrior.
#19 1666 days old. 1,618,573 casualties. 4 1/2 years. 5 major wars... 330K per war.. assuming he fought ever war, it wasnt for more than a week.
#20 1358 days old. 294,050 casualties. Go away please.
[/quote]

"[i]Who live in glass houses should not throw stones.[/i]"

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1317658581' post='2814637']
No, it wasn't. It was devised extremely early in the process.

You want to attack Legion, try sticking to stuff that they are actually responsible for. You can complain about their war effort that they put up while under attack by the whole of C&G, something NSO never faced, but they were no more responsible for the overall war plan than you guys.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Haflinger, I understand your trying to be a good ally and stick up for Legion, but it is a lost cause. Legion may have been outnumbered, but so was everyone else. NSO was fighting GOONS, MK, and Umbrella. Everyone else was as well. Legion may have also been targeted by CnG, but remember that CnG was also busy with MCXA and several other alliances for the first two weeks Legion was in the war.

Legion sat in peace mode. They did not come out and they did not fight (I do not consider a handful of loners to reflect the entire alliance).[/color]

[Ejayrazz]

So Legion trash talks like everyone else? Get the $%&@ over it. No idea how CN turned into such a crying atrocity.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Ejayrazz' timestamp='1317666081' post='2814705']
So Legion trash talks like everyone else? Get the $%&@ over it. No idea how CN turned into such a crying atrocity.
[/quote]
Coz everyone's crying here mang.

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1317666247' post='2814707']
Coz everyone's crying here mang.
[/quote]
absolutely brah.

[Jaiar]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1317665554' post='2814702']
[color="#0000FF"]Haflinger, I understand your trying to be a good ally and stick up for Legion, but it is a lost cause. Legion may have been outnumbered, but so was everyone else. NSO was fighting GOONS, MK, and Umbrella. Everyone else was as well. Legion may have also been targeted by CnG, but remember that CnG was also busy with MCXA and several other alliances for the first two weeks Legion was in the war.

Legion sat in peace mode. They did not come out and they did not fight (I do not consider a handful of loners to reflect the entire alliance).[/color]
[/quote]
Admin should charge money for allowing people to vent their issues like this; he'd make a killing.

Anyway, Bubba what is it that you and NSO want out of Legion? What satisfaction is there in beating a dead horse? Literally a dead horse. Legion does not care about there reputation. So what is the point of continuing a pointless crusade against them? Upgrade to an alliance that is more challenging.

Honestly, surprise surprise...I do not like NSO. But, playing around with Legion is beneath you guys. Seriously. You guys are better than the show you put on in these anti-Legion topics. You got a solid ally in RoK. Elevate your game. Stop playing in the garbage bin.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1317595071' post='2814175']
While OWF drama is perhaps fun for the spectators, I would propose to you, Emperor of the Sith, that we each have greater enemies at our peripheral, and that waving swords at each other dilutes our efforts at combating real threats.
[/quote]
Maybe you missed the memo, but whatever was left of ex-heg unity is dead. You shouldn't waste your time trying to rally NSO nor any other alliance who has escaped the label. They do not need you or your baggage anymore, not that they ever needed you to begin with.

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1317597700' post='2814207']
Incorrect on two counts. First, please go ask GOONS and MK how much we used peace mode. The answer you'll get is "very little".
[/quote]
Yeah, I'll vouch for this. NSO used peace mode rotations to reload and attacked in waves, Legion used peace mode to get out of fighting. There is a significant difference between the two. NSO and TPF were the primary ones who did damage to us. Legion was pretty much a non-factor, except when it came time to pay us. Except that even then you couldn't do that properly, shifting significant financial burden on your allies, how touching.

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1317665554' post='2814702']
[color="#0000FF"]Haflinger, I understand your trying to be a good ally and stick up for Legion, but it is a lost cause. Legion may have been outnumbered, but so was everyone else. NSO was fighting GOONS, MK, and Umbrella. Everyone else was as well. Legion may have also been targeted by CnG, but remember that CnG was also busy with MCXA and several other alliances for the first two weeks Legion was in the war.

Legion sat in peace mode. They did not come out and they did not fight (I do not consider a handful of loners to reflect the entire alliance).[/color]
[/quote]
CnG "fought" MCXA and Legion. Legion rarely strayed from peace mode and MCXA were laughable at best.

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1317676123' post='2814779']
Maybe you missed the memo, but whatever was left of ex-heg unity is dead. You shouldn't waste your time trying to rally NSO nor any other alliance who has escaped the label. They do not need you or your baggage anymore, not that they ever needed you to begin with.[/quote]

It wasn't a call for unity so much as a suggestion of pragmatism in that they have real enemies that are actively working against them, as do we. But I've decide to administer my own medicine and ignore this entire bunch of nonsense. I have more important duties to attend to and preparations to make. Enjoy your dead horse.

[quote]
Yeah, I'll vouch for this. NSO used peace mode rotations to reload and attacked in waves, Legion used peace mode to get out of fighting. There is a significant difference between the two. NSO and TPF were the primary ones who did damage to us. Legion was pretty much a non-factor, except when it came time to pay us. Except that even then you couldn't do that properly, shifting significant financial burden on your allies, how touching.
[/quote]

Reiterations of the past, do not a future make.

[Banksy]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1317663630' post='2814685']
"[i]Who live in glass houses should not throw stones.[/i]"
[/quote]
D34th, you're going to have to explain how Rush finds himself in a glass house. He has an awful lot of casualties for a nation of his age. It's all very well making these sorts of statements but it helps if they are somewhat relevant.

[Partisan]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1317621784' post='2814500']
The only reason for acting like a bunch of asshats is being a bunch of asshats. All you're going to do is talk smack. The more hate you spew over your own problem, the less people will want to hear it.

We're trying to work on the positive. And since you obviously have a grievance that you refuse to either resolve with war or talks then feel free to stay mired in your own little hate hole of the past. It's your filth, you sleep in it. We're moving on.
[/quote]

The fact that most of your legionaires - members and gov. alike seem completely ignorant of their faillure during the last war does not make it seems like your are working on your issues. So long as you keep claiming that the legion did not screw over their coalition, I have high doubts of you trying to "work on the positive". You need to acknowledge your past wrongs in order to prevent them from happening again.

Aside from this, you are trying to give us a hard time for not being so willing to reconcile after your alliance $%&@ed us over during wartime while your own government literally stated that he would refuse any talks with us one page back. Seems like this is as much your filth as ours.

Perhaps we would have been willing to do so if you would have owned up to your mistakes and offered a hand instead escalating the situation by calling us out for spying without any proof.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Turin

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Turin' timestamp='1317679779' post='2814819']
The fact that most of your legionaires - members and gov. alike seem completely ignorant of their faillure during the last war does not make it seems like your are working on your issues.
[/quote]

What seems is not always what is. We are painfully aware of our shortcomings in the last war, indeed it would be impossible not to since it's been repeated ad nauseam at us since the event. If you look back a few posts, you will see my own admission of such. It is difficult to have open disclosure when you encounter hostility at every angle, it makes those who feel passionately about their alliance want to defend it at all costs. Of course, just like in any alliance there are some who feel, from their inside perspective, that their actions were justified. That's not too hard to understand, right? And there are those that see the area for improvement. Sometimes one can know one thing but feel compelled to say another to save face.

Regardless, as is the culture of Bob, people cling to the past and stay latched to it like a bulldog with a bone. Not entirely unreasonable, as really only your allies have an obligations to support you, and those who are not allies have a their own reasons to disrespect and run others down. It's tactical character assassination and, for those with a sadistic streak, entertainment.

It is a pointless conversation. Only actions change opinions. So until those actions take place, one in our position can only shoulder the taunts and march on. Arguing about it is a waste of time except for those who enjoy mocking others when their enemies are down.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Kzoppistan

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1317677198' post='2814793']
CnG "fought" MCXA and Legion. Legion rarely strayed from peace mode and MCXA were laughable at best.
[/quote]

I thought our fighting ability was on par with ODN, with the exception of a few notable people at our upper tier, and those people have been largely jettisoned.

[D34th]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1317677727' post='2814797']
D34th, you're going to have to explain how Rush finds himself in a glass house. He has an awful lot of casualties for a nation of his age. It's all very well making these sorts of statements but it helps if they are somewhat relevant.
[/quote]

Because many of TLR members between #1 and #20 are in exactly the same position of the nations his is criticizing. You can look for yourself but two examples for you:

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=77775 -> #2 1,105,324 Casualties - 1,757 days old
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=77775 -> #3 379,038 Casualties - 1,530 days old

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1317677477' post='2814795']
It wasn't a call for unity so much as a suggestion of pragmatism in that they have real enemies that are actively working against them, as do we. But I've decide to administer my own medicine and ignore this entire bunch of nonsense. I have more important duties to attend to and preparations to make. Enjoy your dead horse.
[/quote]
The only dead horse here is Legion when NSO and Tetris are done with you.

[quote]
Reiterations of the past, do not a future make.
[/quote]
Are you saying I'm not a credible witness? Or are you just trying to wax-poetic? It seems that it is you who should learn this lesson you are espousing.

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1317681205' post='2814828']
I thought our fighting ability was on par with ODN, with the exception of a few notable people at our upper tier, and those people have been largely jettisoned.
[/quote]
I'm speaking purely from memory, as I don't care enough to go back to threads from February, but it seemed that incompetency was the major experience we had when fighting you. It's funny, because I have a genuine positive opinion towards you guys, and you were a pleasure to fight, but I recall basically thinking "Awww, I want to help them because they're not good at this."

[Banksy]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1317681205' post='2814828']
I thought our fighting ability was on par with ODN, with the exception of a few notable people at our upper tier, and those people have been largely jettisoned.
[/quote]
MCXA has not been on par with the ODN for some time. They have a surprisingly effective upper tier (surprising as in it's actually quite active) and their middle tier is actually quite good. Part of the reason for this is that they have not had a serious opposition since bipolar (as they fought you in the last war). Therefore you are ineffective at waging war in comparison to the ODN.

Although in your defence you've performed better than many on your side.

[Ellis]

Well, I guess, in the end, something was done about it.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Ellis

[Partisan]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1317680994' post='2814826']
What seems is not always what is. We are painfully aware of our shortcomings in the last war, indeed it would be impossible not to since it's been repeated ad nauseam at us since the event. If you look back a few posts, you will see my own admission of such. It is difficult to have open disclosure when you encounter hostility at every angle, it makes those who feel passionately about their alliance want to defend it at all costs. Of course, just like in any alliance there are some who feel, from their inside perspective, that their actions were justified. That's not too hard to understand, right? And there are those that see the area for improvement. Sometimes one can know one thing but feel compelled to say another to save face.

Regardless, as is the culture of Bob, people cling to the past and stay latched to it like a bulldog with a bone. Not entirely unreasonable, as really only your allies have an obligations to support you, and those who are not allies have a their own reasons to disrespect and run others down. It's tactical character assassination and, for those with a sadistic streak, entertainment.

It is a pointless conversation. Only actions change opinions. So until those actions take place, one in our position can only shoulder the taunts and march on. Arguing about it is a waste of time except for those who enjoy mocking others when their enemies are down.
[/quote]

I would applaud you for this post if it werent for the fact that the legion themselves started this little feud. People cling to the past until real attempts are made at improving relations. As evident in our recent treaty with ragnarok, we are willing to move from the past but it requires effort from your side.

You are the ones who initially wronged our coalition and us, do not forget that. Our taunts are a result of that. If you had wanted for it to stop, you should have tried to solve the issues, instead of making false accusations about spying. You are right that actions change opinions. Sadly, the legion failed in carrying out said actions post-war.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Turin

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1317683132' post='2814877']
The only dead horse here is Legion when NSO and Tetris are done with you.[/quote]
Sardonic, I know you are a smart guy, so it's remarkable that you would say something so stupid.

[quote]
Are you saying I'm not a credible witness? Or are you just trying to wax-poetic? It seems that it is you who should learn this lesson you are espousing.[/quote]
The future is forged anew each day by the trials of yesterday. Those that understand that survive and those that don't give up and disperse.


[quote name='Turin' timestamp='1317727600' post='2815992']
I would applaud you for this post if it werent for the fact that the legion themselves started this little feud. People cling to the past until real attempts are made at improving relations. As evident in our recent treaty with ragnarok, we are willing to move from the past but it requires effort from your side.

You are the ones who initially wronged our coalition and us, do not forget that. Our taunts are a result of that. If you had wanted for it to stop, you should have tried to solve the issues, instead of making false accusations about spying. You are right that actions change opinions. Sadly, the legion failed in carrying out said actions post-war.
[/quote]

Your spin is worthless. Stop pretending to be a martyr. Did or did not Varianz disseminate a spy report on the OWF in an effort to embarrass and provoke the Legion? We both know the answer to this. Whether Leo's accusation of the original spy was correct or not, which I'm not sure has been proven one way or the other yet, it is immaterial to the larger issue at hand. Focusing on that, and claiming that is the source of the animosity is disingenuous, at best. We both know it is larger than that.

The fact remains is that the Legion has had a rough history on Bob and NSO got their panties in a bunch over a confused and mismanaged war strategy by a coalition that was doomed to fail from the beginning. Ever since then the NSO thought they smelled weakness and at every opportunity disrespected and demeaned them. NSO ran their mouths because they thought the could get away with it. They supported Tetris in their efforts to do the same.

Like any who feel the need to put down others to bolster their own deficit of self respect, NSO tried to target someone they thought was weaker.

Well there's no weakness here, my friend.



And before you take any more spin tips, remember this:

[quote]...truth is the best propaganda and lies are the worst. To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. It is as simple as that.[/quote]

Edited October 4, 2011 by Kzoppistan

[Partisan]

[quote]Your spin is worthless. Stop pretending to be a martyr. Did or did not Varianz disseminate a spy report on the OWF in an effort to embarrass and provoke the Legion? We both know the answer to this. Whether Leo's accusation of the original spy was correct or not, which I'm not sure has been proven one way or the other yet, it is immaterial to the larger issue at hand. Focusing on that, and claiming that is the source of the animosity is disingenuous, at best. We both know it is larger than that.

The fact remains is that the Legion has had a rough history on Bob and NSO got their panties in a bunch over a confused and mismanaged war strategy by a coalition that was doomed to fail from the beginning. Ever since then the NSO thought they smelled weakness and at every opportunity disrespected and demeaned them. NSO ran their mouths because they thought the could get away with it. They supported Tetris in their efforts to do the same.

Like any who feel the need to put down others to bolster their own deficit of self respect, NSO tried to target someone they thought was weaker.

Well there's no weakness here, my friend.



And before you take any more spin tips, remember this:
[/quote]
Your spin is worthless as well to be frank.

First of all, legions 'rough history' has nothing to do with this issue.

From the get go I claimed that the source of the animosity lies with the legions war efforts during the past war and them actively sabotaging said efforts. The false accusation is but a part of the ignorance legion has displayed since then. Your claim that I am "focussing on that one small aspect" is silly at best.

You know as well as I that our animosity regarding you lies with your inability to take accountability for your faillure. Ofcourse the NSO is hostile has been hostile since the war. This has nothing to do with "smelling weakness". It has to do with your faillure on the field costing us valuable time and resources and your refusal to acknowledge as such. You did not try to make amends with the coalition you screwed over, which is your choice, but dont think that pretending that you never did as such will automaticly make us forget about it.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Turin

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1317756075' post='2816316']
Your spin is worthless. Stop pretending to be a martyr. Did or did not Varianz disseminate a spy report on the OWF in an effort to embarrass and provoke the Legion? We both know the answer to this. Whether Leo's accusation of the original spy was correct or not, which I'm not sure has been proven one way or the other yet, it is immaterial to the larger issue at hand. Focusing on that, and claiming that is the source of the animosity is disingenuous, at best. We both know it is larger than that.

The fact remains is that the Legion has had a rough history on Bob and NSO got their panties in a bunch over a confused and mismanaged war strategy by a coalition that was doomed to fail from the beginning. Ever since then the NSO thought they smelled weakness and at every opportunity disrespected and demeaned them. NSO ran their mouths because they thought the could get away with it. They supported Tetris in their efforts to do the same.

Like any who feel the need to put down others to bolster their own deficit of self respect, NSO tried to target someone they thought was weaker.

Well there's no weakness here, my friend.
[/quote]
So basically you take no responsibility for your performance in the war, nor your government accusing ours of spying on them with absolutely no proof? And you wonder why we don't like the Legion. Did or did not Leo accuse Varianz of spying on the Legion on the OWF in an attempt to embarrass and provoke the NSO? Trying to claim that that is immaterial to the issues in the NSO-Legion relationship is incredibly disingenuous, and your attempt to paint Legion as the victim is hilarious.

As for your claim that we're bolstering our self esteem by picking on Legion, there's a quote floating around along the lines of 'epic fail deserves epic [bridge dwelling]'. I think that fits here.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1317756075' post='2816316']
Sardonic, I know you are a smart guy, so it's remarkable that you would say something so stupid.
[/quote]
Hey I calls them like I sees them, as much as I applaud your efforts in doing something, I don't think you have this one in the bag. I also don't appreciate you dragging in certain alliances, but that's neither here nor there.
[quote]
The future is forged anew each day by the trials of yesterday. Those that understand that survive and those that don't give up and disperse.
[/quote]
What about those who are unable to disperse and need a viceroy to shape them up?

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1317762343' post='2816386']
So basically you take no responsibility for your performance in the war, nor your government accusing ours of spying on them with absolutely no proof? And you wonder why we don't like the Legion. Did or did not Leo accuse Varianz of spying on the Legion on the OWF in an attempt to embarrass and provoke the NSO? Trying to claim that that is immaterial to the issues in the NSO-Legion relationship is incredibly disingenuous, and your attempt to paint Legion as the victim is hilarious.

[/quote]

So basically you have ignored just about everything I've posted and inserted your own straw man instead. I've already mentioned our part in the war and how it could have been better. I make no bones about it. And secondly, the government didn't accuse anyone of anything, it was a member posting on world affairs forum, not an alliance announcement. You keep trying to grasp one event and use it as some sort of advantage, when it was plain to see that you all had it out for us for quite a while. Now, maybe you took advantage of that member's post to justify an increase of negative OWF attacks, but I seriously doubt you were so greatly offended by that accusation, in fact, judging by those posts you seem more than happy to receive the attention because you knew it couldn't be proved.

Finally, I'm not painting the Legion as a "victim" if you are implying it as some sort of "oh woe is us". People make their own beds. We are, however, acting on the affront to our forums and privacy by a group that was bent on trying to humiliate us in public for their own amusement. Slander is expected from those of weak character, but receiving and disseminating private information is a gross violation on the sacred trust of home security and the basic respect of privacy that should be accorded to all alliances. That you so willfully support this infraction only means you will burn along with them.

[quote]
As for your claim that we're bolstering our self esteem by picking on Legion, there's a quote floating around along the lines of 'epic fail deserves epic [bridge dwelling]'. I think that fits here.[/quote]

Epic failure is dissolution. Like all alliances, the Legion has had its ups and downs, some higher and lower than others. Rolling over is epic fail. Giving up is epic fail. But the fact that you have a burning desire to so paint us in such a negative light can only be explained by your need to also follow the "advice" of your quote. A sad display of someone with who possess no distinguishable characteristics but that of spite.

May peace be upon your tortured soul.

[Partisan]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1317764312' post='2816411']
So basically you have ignored just about everything I've posted and inserted your own straw man instead. I've already mentioned our part in the war and how it could have been better. I make no bones about it. And secondly, the government didn't accuse anyone of anything, it was a member posting on world affairs forum, not an alliance announcement. You keep trying to grasp one event and use it as some sort of advantage, when it was plain to see that you all had it out for us for quite a while. Now, maybe you took advantage of that member's post to justify an increase of negative OWF attacks, but I seriously doubt you were so greatly offended by that accusation, in fact, judging by those posts you seem more than happy to receive the attention because you knew it couldn't be proved.

Finally, I'm not painting the Legion as a "victim" if you are implying it as some sort of "oh woe is us". People make their own beds. We are, however, acting on the affront to our forums and privacy by a group that was bent on trying to humiliate us in public for their own amusement. [b]Slander is expected from those of weak character[/b], but receiving and disseminating private information is a gross violation on the sacred trust of home security and the basic respect of privacy that should be accorded to all alliances. That you so willfully support this infraction only means you will burn along with them.



Epic failure is dissolution. Like all alliances, the Legion has had its ups and downs, some higher and lower than others. Rolling over is epic fail. Giving up is epic fail. But the fact that you have a burning desire to so paint us in such a negative light can only be explained by your need to also follow the "advice" of your quote. [b]A sad display of someone with who possess no distinguishable characteristics but that of spite.[/b]

May peace be upon your tortured soul.
[/quote]

Are you weak of character, my dear sir?

The information was already public. Tetris simply transported it from one public place to another. If the legion truly cared so much about that particular incident, why did it take you weeks to react on it? Why not state your real CB? Which basicly is: "Our feelings are hurt"?