The GM's Court

[The Zigur]

If I were to obtain the blueprints for the stealth aircraft, would I be able to manufacture my own, or would I simply be able to use it for political leverage?

[Evangeline Anovilis]

You can't manufacture your own, as they are outside your tech range. Think of it as obtaining blueprints, but your manufacturing technology and materials research is not up to it.

[Triyun]

 

I would note that you roleplay having assets beyond today's capability, thus while you can make claims regarding the systems capabilities, the platform and technology is untested and may potentially have a number of uncorrected flaws. Do you have a prior combat record or EW record that you can reference involving your aircraft against other countries? If not, there is nothing to determine whether your systems or their pilots are truly flawless and invulnerable to detection, and even the most advanced weapons systems are vulnerable to pilot, maintenance and other errors. In fact, stealth aircraft require extensive maintenance by their very nature.

 

Remember, you elected to place your assets in Iranian airspace, and I responded by utilizing full spectrum EW from across the border to attempt to detect them. If the spyrolls are successful, I would leave it to you to determine how the detection occurred, whether it be poor mission planning, pilot error, design flaws or equipment malfunction (any of these are plausible). Of course, my military technology is restricted to the 1990s, but commercially available civilian computers could be utilized for digital analysis of results.

 

Remember how underestimating the Serbians lead to the loss of the F-117 in the 90s.    

 

The loss of the F-117 was a careless error as much as ingenuity, hitting a low slow flying aircraft with a very short range missile.  I would not dispute someone has a chance to detect a low slow flying aircraft if I follow the same exact path day after day and fly low and slow.  You need to let me actually RP that.  Its unlikely though with high altitude super cruising to appear.

 

Beyond that.  Nobody read nobody said invulnerable.  I'm saying a spyroll doesn't work.  And your arguments about the technology are flawed because they are no longer applicable.  The arguments about stealth and maintenance have nothing to do with the conversation.  You're just throwing them out there, like spaghetti against the wall hoping one will stick.  This is a combat mission, which requires combat RP.  I'm merely stating what you are doing 1) isn't a spy roll 2)  you simply don't really know what you are talking about when you deploy that system and that it does not work.  Network centric warfare is complicated.

 

So basically, if I were to roleplay breaking into their secured facilities with KGB agents, I could determine this information, but not by using known technologies against theoretical advancements? Sounds like more of a wording issue than a functionality one.

 

It uses known technology, its strategic choice.  You can TRY to do anything but you have to RP it out.  You're equating apples and oranges.   :P  Rather than try and go with false analogies and attacks, if you truly want to be anything of consequence, why don't you RP stuff out.  You're kind of wet behind the ears, but it seems like you like to bring up stuff you're out of your element with.  You might learn something.   :)

 

If I were to obtain the blueprints for the stealth aircraft, would I be able to manufacture my own, or would I simply be able to use it for political leverage?

 

No, just like the Chinese cannot produce a true fifth generation fighter using purely indigenous parts, even ones they stole from the US.  It helps a little bit but not a lot.

 

tl;dr:  You want an IC chance, take it.  I'll fight you, but you really don't know much about what you're saying.  Instead of saying random shit, let me respond and maybe you can have a chance to learn something.  

Edited June 25, 2014 by Triyun

[The Zigur]

Ok, just exploring my options here, didnt really expect to be fighting futuristic aircraft.

[Horo the Wise Wolf]

Well, I'd say that's what happens when you move into land that's marked to be for new nations.

[Voodoo Nova]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/122599-future-comrades-glorious-news-of-the-union-of-soviet-socialist-eurasia/?p=3275813

Big Foot, on 26 Jun 2014 - 02:39 AM, said:
I hereby disband the nation of Iraq and sell off it's assets to the other nations of the USSE.

I'll be selling all technology including my ICBM's distributed evenly amongst the member states of the USSE, that includes all research and technology which enables them to enrich uranium and make ICBM's. My space program will be dismantled and moved to Iran, Iran will also take ownership of my nuclear enrichment facilities, rocket factories and long range engine technology. My airforce and navy will be distributed amongst the USSE member states aswell. All land forces will be placed under Iranian command.

 

 

This is blatant land-gifting and hereby wiped. If you leave a merger, your partners do not get your military equipment or technology etc. If you leave, everything leaves with you. The land reverts back to its state prior to the founding of Iraq.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Ruling is seconded by me.

[The Zigur]

Big Foot is new to CNRP I'll talk to him

[The Zigur]

Contesting Triyun's fictional aircraft claims

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/120184-tianxia-factbook/?p=3218093

 

I have to admit my jaw dropped a little when Triyun claimed to have futuristic generation 5++ and 6 aircraft on a 2024 technology schedule. He has justified this by claiming 40 years of technological refinement since 2024 (essentially granting him 2060s technology); however, this is not supported by the rules which detail a specific technological year based on in-game tech. Current generation 5 aircraft are projected to be the primary air superiority models for 40-50 years, the idea that generation 5++ and generation 6 technology can be developed on 2024 technology is not only ludicrous, it is impossible. 

 

Furthermore, many of his technological claims are entirely fictional and capability statistics are not based on any real life examples or tests. Essentially, he has taken computer generated concept art for possible generation 6 designs and attached fantastic capabilities to them. This would be no different than myself taking 1990s and 1980s concept art and attaching fictional capabilities to them that might have seemed plausible 20 years ago but would be laughable today.

 

My argument is that we should be solely restricted to proven technologies up to our maximum tech year. This means that Triyun could realistically field F-35s, J-20s and Sukhoi PAK FAs, proven designs that will likely be introduced by 2024, but not fictional designs that would take many decades to develop, let alone mass produce. At the very most, I think it is possible for Triyun to engineer some of the many bugs out of existing stealth aircraft by 2024... but flawless aircraft, let alone generation 6 aircraft is essentially no different than roleplaying star destroyers and X-wings in 2024.

 

Triyuns naval assets share similar problems of outright fantastic projections, but I'm focusing on his air force since he chose to act aggressively against me in Iran. I'm not necessarily asking for a wipe;

 

however, these assets are completely fictional and deserve no more than optional recognition as with other fictional assets:

 

[spoiler]

Name: B-11 'Victor'
Unit Type: Optionally Manned intercontinental bomber
Speed: Mach 2.7 Supercruise (2.3 with external weapons)
Max Speed: Mach 4
Range: 14, 000 kilometers (+1000 kilometers per fuel pylon)
Combat Radius: 8500 kilometers (+450 kilometer per fuel pylon)

Ceiling: 70, 000 feet
Unit Engine: The B-11 Victor uses a combination engine which is based around a super efficient compact turbojet engine which is combined with ram and scramjet capabilities for ultra high at altitude capabilities. In low IR mode, the B-11 utilizes the turbojet for long range super cruise at Mach 2.7. While this capability emits significantly more IR than a ultra high efficiency turbofan deployed on tactical aircraft, the B-11s superior size (thus greater heat management capability for dealing with exhaust) and longer stand off range more than compensates for this in making the craft difficult to detect. Further the B-11 Victor is equipped with specialized H2 injectors to increase thrust in ram and scramjet mode. While this boosts capability in high speed modes, in low IR mode this same fuel can be used as part of a cooling system.
Stealth Characteristics: The B-11 Victor is equipped with multiple stealth characteristics. Principle among these is its highly blended stealth design, which reduces the RCS of the aircraft. The B-11 however, it is tested to have a minimum detection range against an APG-77 AESA radar of 50 nmi, this makes it virtually stealth as its weapons range is a minimum of 200 nmi. Beyond this however, the B-11 Victor is equipped with carbon nanotube based radar absorbtion material. This can be reconfigured in flight, but is default optimized to defeat methods of electro-magnetic detection most commonly on the long range spectrum. This material is capable of absorbing huge amounts of radar energy and converting it into heat energy which is channeled to the engines to be managed by the engine system. In default internal configuration this puts the B-11 at about .001 meter RCS. However, the B-11 is a front line heavy bomber. Thus it must also take a measured approach between surviveability and strike payload. The B-11 carries considerable internal fire power along four rotary cruise missile launchers, or eight NGTAM rotary missile launchers, or four long range strike heavy packages (nuclear, EMP, or themobaric). The B-11 is thusly equipped with a total possible of 20 conformal stealth weapons pylons. This units are equipped with an inexpensive yet highly radar absorbant schiff salt based RAM, developed by research originally at Carnegie Mellon. They are highly blended. This adds the capability of deploying up to 10 external cruise missile size or up to 20 AIMRAM sized weapons for air to air defense. It should be noted however when such weapon systems are deployed, the B-11s super cruise is reduced to Mach 2.3 due to a combination of air resistance and increased weight. This can also be used to carry additional fuel. Additionally in this configuration the B-11 is only .01 meters stealth.
Sensors: The B-11 Victor is equipped with multiple sensor packages. It has a FLIR scope based on advanced nano-technology which improves range and accuracy of electro-optical detection as well is highly competent against countermeasures. Its equipped with a powerful ultra-low probability of intercept AESA radar which allows it to function as a forward radar picket and AWAC as well as a bomber. This radar also has cyber and electronic attack capabilities. The body is configured to have maximum passive radar detection, allowing it to track multiple targets when its own signals are turned off. Additionally it is equipped with a synthetic aperture radar capability allowing it to track targets on the ground with similar capability to the J-STAR. This combination makes it a highly effective information and situational awareness platform, capabile of linking with other units over a secure data uplink.
Defenses: The B-11 Victor is equipped with the most advanced UFE DRFM jamming pod to defeat enemy radar. It is also equipped with the latest in lock breaking technologies, especially using its high powered microwave emitter to destroying homing missiles. Beyond this the B-11 Victor is capable of breaking lock with IR jamming weapons either by retuning the silver nano-wire technology for IR, using directed energy, or by as a last resort employing chaff. The B-11 Victor's VI provides it with advanced anti-cyber defense capability as well.
Weapons:
Internal:
4 Internal Weapons Bays:
Optional Configuration for Each Bay:
4 ER-M-51 or ArcLight Long Range Cruise Missiles
8 NGTAM
1 Strategic Package
OR
30 SDB
OR
3 Bunker Busters
OR
2 Thermobaric Massive Penetrators
Defensive:
2 Dial an Effect Pulse Lasers
External:
10 Stealth Pylons
2 Picket Stealth Drones

Quantity:  400

[/spoiler]

 

B-11 Victor Problems:

No basis in reality

Generation 6 aircraft ("optionally manned")

Fictional and dubious operational capability and stealth statistics

Theoretical engine capabilities

Theoretical reconfigurable "nanotube" stealth material

Theoretical nanotechnology FLIR scope

Theoretical JSTAR equivalent capabilities

Theoretical microwave anti-missile system

Theoretical offensive LASER capabilities

Unsupported drone capabilities

Unrealistic number of aircraft (400)

 

 

[spoiler]

Name: B-9 III ‘Grim Reaper’
Unit Type: Super sonic ultra-low observation strategic bomber
Unit Specifications:
Speed: Mach 1.65 Mach: 1.1 Super Cruise
Range: 8, 000 nmi
Service Ceiling: 70, 000 feet
Stealth Features: The B-9 is a wing design aircraft designed for maximum stealth capabilities. Its severely reduced its heat, acoustic, infrared, and radar profiles. Its engines emit minimum noise, and are designed to ensure thermal and infrared detectibility is next to impossible. The radar cross section has been painstakingly designed to minimize its detection. Its two surfaces make it among the lowest RCS in existence for any type of aircraft. The plane integrates honeycomb radar absorbent features into the body of the aircraft itself maximizing the ultra low radar profile.

The plane is outfitted with an extensive electronic warfare suite. Its been designed to jam both mono-static and multi-static radar and protect against ultra wide bandwidth radar. The planes electronic warfare suite as well as stealth shaping and coating are designed to counter all radar bands.

Sensors:

The Aircraft is equipped with a 360 degree distributed electro-optical aperture system which provides stealthy 360 degree coverage and protection against SAM and surface to surface threats as well as target acquisition and search track capabilities against ground targets ships.

Satellite assisted targeting system

Data-link-  Moving targeting to other aircraft in the vicinity.

AESA/SAR/GTMI- Integrated ultra-low probability of intercept radar

Weapons:

2 Internal Mounted Long Range Rotary Air to Surface Missile Launchers:
Each Mounts:
6 long range cruise missiles OR 8 intermediate range cruise missiles -OR- 16 G-20 cruise missiles –OR- 16 A-19 Air to Air Missiles
OR  Clean Bomb Configuration
4 Thermobaric Bombs -OR- 14 Bunker Busting Bombs –OR- 80 JDAMs -OR- 100 SDB

Description: The B-9 is a wing shaped bomber designed to do deep infiltration missions. It combines stealth with extremely advanced flight imaging radar and fly by wire response to allow it to use terrain to its advantage to hide its location. The plane is capable of manuvering effectively and quietly through mountain passes using natural terrain to hide. Its first-rate stealth and jamming technology further enhances its survivability. Its low visual and infrared systems make it vulnerable only to direct line of site fire from enemy air defenses and airforces during the day, and near impossible to engage at night.  Its engines are also rated to super cruise in extremely low density atmosphere up to 70, 000 feet allowing it to fly well above altitude where enemy aircraft can intercept it.  It also holds the capability to act as a stand off sniper platform carrying large amounts of ordinance undetected at the edge of a battlespace, slaving its sensors to other craft while delivering overwhelming ordinance on aircraft, ships, and ground forces.

 

Quantity: 300[/spoiler]

 

B-9 Grim Reaper Problems:

No basis in reality

Dubious RCS assertion

Theoretical honeycomb stealth material

Undefined electro-optical aperture system

Undefined EW suite

Dubious low-altitude claims

Unrealistic number of aircraft

 

[spoiler]Air Forces:

 

F-5 Tengri
Designation: Advanced Multi-Role Air Superiority Oriented Fighter
Propulsion: Dual High Efficiency Turbofan Engine w/ Thrust Vectoring
Speed: Mach 2.4 Afterburner, Mach 1.6 Super Cruise
Top Altitude: 65000 Feet +
Range: 3400 miles
Climb Rate: Optimized for high supersonic climb rate
Maximum G-Load: -3.2 G/ +9.5 G
Thrust Weight: 1.1  (1.4 50% fuel load full armaments load out)
Sensor Capability:
Integrates the following data streams.
Radar:
AESA/SAR Nose Coned X-Band Radar Low Probability of Intercept
Wing Tip: L-Band Low Probability of Intercept
Sensitive Radar Detectors built into the air frame to detect radars and rapidly analyze and exploit enemy electronic signals
Infrared:
360 Degree Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System
Conformal Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) Search Track System
Ultra Violet:
Integrated under and side carriage early warning systems.
Integrated Protection Features:
Air Frame Integrated Full Spectrum Stealth:  Radar absorbent materials are integrated into the F-5 air frame, which has been shaped to minimize reflective edges, with full controlled single canted tail minimizing reflective surfaces, and near diamond shaped wing.  Also built in is the advanced teeth shaped around 3-d vectored engines to protect against radar waves from rear, and integrating heat trapping and recycling systems, to reduce IR signatures.  S-shaped foils on intake valves further reduce the aircrafts radar signatures.
Electronic Warfare Suite:  Electronic warfare is integrated into the cockpit system for defense against oncoming attacks.  Capabilities are integrated with the sensor suite to provide prompt return strike, and retain kinematic advantages as well as conduct counter force attacks against both air and ground targets.  EW includes conventional jamming capabilities adaptive with sensors measuring radar signals, active engagement by deception and spoofing methods, and concentrated attack by AESA radar.  IR techniques include conventional counter measures as well as the use of  radar energy and cyber attack vectors.
Cyber Warfare Suite:  Operating with tailored access capabilities, the cyber warfare suite is capable of infiltrating networks of key systems, including the use of some classified national technical means using radio transmitters and sigint, to engage and defeat assorted targets in a battle space.
Weapons:
25 mm gatling gun
Internal Weapons Bay:
-Utilizes internal to external weapons mounts to preposition missiles on the outside of the aircraft, to fire much faster, and have lower radar profile
Up to 10 A-19 AESA/EO-IR/Radiation Homing Air to Air Missiles
+2 Short Range A-20 AESA/EO-IR Air to Air Missiles
18 Small Diameter GPS Guided Bombs
Up to 10 G-18 Air to Ground Missile
6 JDAM
2 M.O.P.
2 ER-M-39 Stand Off V.L.O. Cruise Missile
External Mounts
2 Near Conformal external weapons carriage:
-4 A-19 Air to Air Missiles
-4 G-18 Air to Ground Missile
-4 SDBs +2 missiles
-1 JDAM

-1 JASSM-ER
4 External Weapons hard points on wings attachable
-A-19
-Near Conformal Fuel Tank
-JDAM
-3 SDBs
-G-20
-ER-M-39 Stand Off V.L.O. Cruise Missile

 

Units: 1440

[/spoiler]

 

F-5 Tengri problems:

No basis in reality

Fictional capability statistics

Undefined and unproven radar detection, FLIR and other equipment

Fictional weapons loadouts

Unrealistic number of aircraft (1440)

 

[spoiler]

 

F-6 Erlik

Designation: Advanced Multi-Role Strike Fighter
Propulsion: Dual High Efficiency Turbofan Engine w/ 3-d Thrust Vectoring
Speed: Mach 2 Afterburner, Mach 1.5 Super Cruise
Top Altitude: 65000 Feet +
Range: 1900 miles + fuel tanks
Climb Rate: Optimized for high supersonic climb rate
Maximum G-Load: -3.2 G/ +9.5 G
Thrust Weight: 1.05  (1.3 50% fuel load full armaments load out)
Sensor Capability:
Integrates the following data streams.
Radar:
AESA/SAR Nose Coned X-Band Radar Low Probability of Intercept
Wing Tip: L-Band Low Probability of Intercept
Sensitive Radar Detectors built into the air frame to detect radars and rapidly analyze and exploit enemy electronic signals
Infrared:
360 Degree Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System
Conformal Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) Search Track System
Ultra Violet:
Integrated under and side carriage early warning systems.
Integrated Protection Features:
Air Frame Integrated Full Spectrum Stealth:  Radar absorbent materials are integrated into the F-6 air frame, which has been shaped to minimize reflective edges.  Built on a more traditional design than the F-5, its long wings and more stable tail enable the F-6 to retain many of the stealth characteristics of regular fifth generation jets, but also carry larger payloads of external ordinance. Also built in is the advanced teeth shaped around 3-d vectored engines to protect against radar waves from rear, and integrating heat trapping and recycling systems, to reduce IR signatures.  S-shaped foils on intake valves further reduce the aircrafts radar signatures.
Electronic Warfare Suite:  Electronic warfare is integrated into the cockpit system for defense against oncoming attacks.  Capabilities are integrated with the sensor suite to provide prompt return strike, and retain kinematic advantages as well as conduct counter force attacks against both air and ground targets.  EW includes conventional jamming capabilities adaptive with sensors measuring radar signals, active engagement by deception and spoofing methods, and concentrated attack by AESA radar.  IR techniques include conventional counter measures as well as the use of  radar energy and cyber attack vectors.
Cyber Warfare Suite:  Operating with tailored access capabilities, the cyber warfare suite is capable of infiltrating networks of key systems, including the use of some classified national technical means using radio transmitters and sigint, to engage and defeat assorted targets in a battle space.
Weapons:
25 mm gatling gun
Internal Weapons Bay:
-Utilizes internal to external weapons mounts to preposition missiles on the outside of the aircraft, to fire much faster, and have lower radar profile
Up to 8 A-19 AESA/EO-IR/Radiation Homing Air to Air Missiles
+2 Short Range A-20 AESA/EO-IR Air to Air Missiles
18 Small Diameter GPS Guided Bombs
Up to 10 G-18 Air to Ground Missile
4 JDAM
2 M.O.P.
External Mounts
1 Near Conformal external weapons carriage:
-4 A-19 Air to Air Missiles
-4 G-18 Air to Ground Missile
-4 SDBs +2 missiles
-1 JDAM
-1 JASSM-ER
6 External Weapons hard points on wings attachable
-3 A-19/G20
-Near Conformal Fuel Tank
-2JDAM
-4 SDBs
-G-20
-ER-M-39 Stand Off V.L.O. Cruise Missile

 

Units: 1500[/spoiler]

 

F6 Erlik problems:

No basis in reality

Fictional capability statistics

Undefined and unproven radar detection, FLIR and other equipment

Fictional weapons loadouts

Unrealistic number of aircraft (1500)

 

[spoiler]

 

F-7 Lei Gong

Designation: Advanced Tactical Bomber
Propulsion: Dual High Efficiency Turbofan Engine w/ 3-d Thrust Vectoring
Speed: Mach 2 Afterburner, Mach 1.4 Super Cruise
Top Altitude: 65000 Feet +
Range: 4100 miles + fuel tanks
Climb Rate: Optimized for high supersonic climb rate
Maximum G-Load 6 G
Sensor Capability:
Integrates the following data streams.
Radar:
AESA/SAR Nose Coned X-Band Radar Low Probability of Intercept
Wing Tip: L-Band Low Probability of Intercept
Sensitive Radar Detectors built into the air frame to detect radars and rapidly analyze and exploit enemy electronic signals
Infrared:
360 Degree Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System
Conformal Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) Search Track System
Ultra Violet:
Integrated under and side carriage early warning systems.
Integrated Protection Features:
Air Frame Integrated Full Spectrum Stealth:  Radar absorbent materials are integrated into the F-7 air frame, which has been shaped to minimize reflective edges.  Combining traditional near bat wing shape of stealth bombers, with 3-d thrust vectoring, it maximizes stealth while retaining maneuverability for a dynamic threat environment. Also built in is the advanced teeth shaped around 3-d vectored engines to protect against radar waves from rear, and integrating heat trapping and recycling systems, to reduce IR signatures.  S-shaped foils on intake valves further reduce the aircrafts radar signatures.
Electronic Warfare Suite:  Electronic warfare is integrated into the cockpit system for defense against oncoming attacks.  Capabilities are integrated with the sensor suite to provide prompt return strike, and retain kinematic advantages as well as conduct counter force attacks against both air and ground targets.  EW includes conventional jamming capabilities adaptive with sensors measuring radar signals, active engagement by deception and spoofing methods, and concentrated attack by AESA radar.  IR techniques include conventional counter measures as well as the use of  radar energy and cyber attack vectors.
Cyber Warfare Suite:  Operating with tailored access capabilities, the cyber warfare suite is capable of infiltrating networks of key systems, including the use of some classified national technical means using radio transmitters and sigint, to engage and defeat assorted targets in a battle space.
Weapons:
25 mm gatling gun
Internal Weapons Bay:
-Utilizes internal to external weapons mounts to preposition missiles on the outside of the aircraft, to fire much faster, and have lower radar profile
Up to 16 A-19 AESA/EO-IR/Radiation Homing Air to Air Missiles
+2 Short Range A-20 AESA/EO-IR Air to Air Missiles
30 Small Diameter GPS Guided Bombs
Up to 16 G-18 Air to Ground Missile
14 JDAM
4 M.O.P.
4 ER-M-39
External Mounts
2Near Conformal external weapons carriage:
-4 A-19 Air to Air Missiles
-4 G-18 Air to Ground Missile
-4 SDBs +2 missiles
-1 JDAM
-1 JASSM-ER
4 External Weapons hard points on wings attachable
-3 A-19/G20
-Near Conformal Fuel Tank
-2JDAM
-4 SDBs
-G-20
-ER-M-39 Stand Off V.L.O. Cruise Missile

 

Units: 400[/spoiler]

 

F7 Lei Gong problems:

No basis in reality

Fictional capability statistics

Dubious maneuverability claims

Theoretical S-foil and other stealth enhancing claims

Undefined and unsuported cyber warfare suite

Undefined and unproven radar detection, FLIR and other equipment

Fictional weapons loadouts

 

[spoiler]

Naval Aviation:

 

 

I-10 Dire Wolf
Designation: Very Low Observable Naval Interdictor/Interceptor
Propulsion: Dual High Efficiency Turbofan Engine w/ Thrust Vectoring
Speed: Mach 2.8 Afterburner, Mach 1.7 Super Cruise
Top Altitude: 65000 Feet +
Range: 4300 miles
Thrust Weight: .75
Sensor Capability:
Integrates the following data streams.
Radar:
AESA/SAR Nose Coned X-Band Radar Low Probability of Intercept
Ground Track Moving Intdicator (GTMI)
Wing Tip: L-Band Low Probability of Intercept
Sensitive Radar Detectors built into the air frame to detect radars and rapidly analyze and exploit enemy electronic signals
Infrared:
360 Degree Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System
Conformal Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) Search Track System
Ultra Violet:
Integrated under and side carriage early warning systems.
Integrated Protection Features:
Air Frame Integrated Full Spectrum Stealth:  Radar absorbent materials are integrated into the F-10 air frame, which has been shaped to minimize reflective edges, with full controlled single canted tail minimizing reflective surfaces, and near diamond shaped wing.  Also built in is the advanced teeth shaped around vectored engines to protect against radar waves from rear, and integrating heat trapping and recycling systems, to reduce IR signatures.  S-shaped foils on intake valves further reduce the aircrafts radar signatures.
Electronic Warfare Suite:  Electronic warfare is integrated into the cockpit system for defense against oncoming attacks.  Capabilities are integrated with the sensor suite to provide prompt return strike, and retain kinematic advantages as well as conduct counter force attacks against both air and ground targets.  EW includes conventional jamming capabilities adaptive with sensors measuring radar signals, active engagement by deception and spoofing methods, and concentrated attack by AESA radar.  IR techniques include conventional counter measures as well as the use of  radar energy and cyber attack vectors.
Cyber Warfare Suite:  Operating with tailored access capabilities, the cyber warfare suite is capable of infiltrating networks of key systems, including the use of some classified national technical means using radio transmitters and sigint, to engage and defeat assorted targets in a battle space.
Weapons:
2 25 mm gatling gun
Internal Weapons Bay:
-Utilizes internal to external weapons mounts to preposition missiles on the outside of the aircraft, to fire much faster, and have lower radar profile
Up to 14 A-19 AESA/EO-IR/Radiation Homing Air to Air Missiles
+2 Short Range A-20 AESA/EO-IR Air to Air Missiles
30 Small Diameter GPS Guided Bombs
Up to 14 G-18 Air to Ground Missile
10 JDAM
4 M.O.P.
4 ER-M-39 Stand Off V.L.O. Cruise Missile
[b]External Mounts
6 Near Conformal external weapons carriage:
-4 A-19 Air to Air Missiles
-4 G-18 Air to Ground Missile
-4 SDBs +2 missiles
-1 JDAM
-1 JASSM-ER
8 External Weapons hard points on wings attachable
-A-19
-Near Conformal Fuel Tank
-JDAM
-3 SDBs
-G-20
-ER-M-39 Stand Off V.L.O. Cruise Missile

Description:  I-10 Dire Wolf is the strategic weapon of the premier strike weapon of the Tianxia Fleet.  It has unique capabilities as a carrier launched bomber, but also has the capacity and oufittings to deploy powerful radars for air to air anti-bomber and anti-cruise missile duties for the fleet.  Its larger size allows its sensors to have higher resolution and engage targets from further away even while its stealth keeps it hidden.  I-10s provide a visible stick to the Tianxian Fleet’s deterrence mission both with their conventional and nuclear capabilities to keep the Empire free from the dark arm of tyranny.

 

Units: 264

 

F-8

 

 

 

F-8 Susanoo
Designation: Advanced Navalized Multi-Role Air Superiority Oriented Fighter
Propulsion: Dual High Efficiency Turbofan Engine w/ Thrust Vectoring
Speed: Mach 2.1 Afterburner, Mach 1.4 Super Cruise
Top Altitude: 65000 Feet +
Range: 3000 miles
Climb Rate: Optimized for high supersonic climb rate
Maximum G-Load: -3.2 G/ +9.5 G
Thrust Weight: 1.2  (1.5 50% fuel load full armaments load out)
Sensor Capability:
Integrates the following data streams.
Radar:
AESA/SAR Nose Coned X-Band Radar Low Probability of Intercept
Wing Tip: L-Band Low Probability of Intercept
Sensitive Radar Detectors built into the air frame to detect radars and rapidly analyze and exploit enemy electronic signals
Infrared:
360 Degree Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System
Conformal Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) Search Track System
Ultra Violet:
Integrated under and side carriage early warning systems.
Integrated Protection Features:
Air Frame Integrated Full Spectrum Stealth:  Radar absorbent materials are integrated into the F-8 air frame, the aircraft lacks a tail and has specialized sensors to angle its canards to drastically reduce radar reflection, allowing full spectrum stealth.  Also built in is the advanced teeth shaped around 3-d vectored engines to protect against radar waves from rear, and integrating heat trapping and recycling systems, to reduce IR signatures.  S-shaped foils on intake valves further reduce the aircrafts radar signatures.
Electronic Warfare Suite:  Electronic warfare is integrated into the cockpit system for defense against oncoming attacks.  Capabilities are integrated with the sensor suite to provide prompt return strike, and retain kinematic advantages as well as conduct counter force attacks against both air and ground targets.  EW includes conventional jamming capabilities adaptive with sensors measuring radar signals, active engagement by deception and spoofing methods, and concentrated attack by AESA radar.  IR techniques include conventional counter measures as well as the use of radar energy and cyber attack vectors.
Cyber Warfare Suite:  Operating with tailored access capabilities, the cyber warfare suite is capable of infiltrating networks of key systems, including the use of some classified national technical means using radio transmitters and sigint, to engage and defeat assorted targets in a battle space.
Weapons:
25 mm gatling gun
Internal Weapons Bay:
-Utilizes internal to external weapons mounts to preposition missiles on the outside of the aircraft, to fire much faster, and have lower radar profile
Up to 10 A-19 AESA/EO-IR/Radiation Homing Air to Air Missiles
+2 Short Range A-20 AESA/EO-IR Air to Air Missiles
18 Small Diameter GPS Guided Bombs
Up to 10 G-18 Air to Ground Missile
6 JDAM
2 M.O.P.
2 ER-M-39 Stand Off V.L.O. Cruise Missile
External Mounts
2 Near Conformal external weapons carriage:
-4 A-19 Air to Air Missiles
-4 G-18 Air to Ground Missile
-4 SDBs +2 missiles
-1 JDAM
-1 JASSM-ER
4 External Weapons hard points on wings attachable
-A-19
-Near Conformal Fuel Tank
-JDAM
-3 SDBs
-G-20
-ER-M-39 Stand Off V.L.O. Cruise Missile

 

Units: 524[/spoiler]

 

Same problems for all of this

 

[spoiler]F-35-B Block II:

 

 

F-35-B Block II is an improved version of the F-35-B built domestically by Tianxia.  A concession to the Amphibious Forces, the F-35-B Block II was chosen after it was determined most of the flaws of the F-35 were in the B program, but that the capabiliies STOVL aircraft offered moderate advantages, particularly in expeditionary forces.  The Block II program introduced critical upgrades including fitting the internal weapons bay to carry Tianxia made ordinance, a drastically increased electronic/cyber warfare suite, and improved AESA radars and electro-optical sensors.  

 

Quantity:  210

[/spoiler]

 

This is the sole Tianxia stealth aircraft based in reality, however, while individual bugs could be partially eliminated by 2024, claims of being able to deliver fictional ordnance along with "improved" AESA and other sensors should be wiped if this craft remains recognized.

 

Before doing all that science fiction stuff, here is a list of real life issues that need to be corrected in a decade's time first:

 

In November 2011, a Pentagon study team identified the following 13 areas of concern that remained to be addressed in the F-35:^[167][168]

• The helmet-mounted display system does not work properly.
• The fuel dump subsystem poses a fire hazard.
• The Integrated Power Package is unreliable and difficult to service.
• The F-35C's arresting hook does not work.
• Classified "survivability issues", which have been speculated to be about stealth.^[167]
• The wing buffet is worse than previously reported.
• The airframe is unlikely to last through the required lifespan.
• The flight test program has yet to explore the most challenging areas.
• The software development is behind schedule.
• The aircraft is in danger of going overweight or, for the F-35B, not properly balanced for VTOL operations.
• There are multiple thermal management problems. The air conditioner fails to keep the pilot and controls cool enough, the roll posts on the F-35B overheat, and using the afterburner damages the aircraft.
• The automated logistics information system is partially developed.
• The lightning protection on the F-35 is uncertified, with areas of concern.

In March 2013, USAF test pilots, flying with pre-operational software that did not utilize the all-aspect infrared AAQ-37 DAS sensor, noted a lack of visibility from the F-35 cockpit during evaluation flights which would get them consistently shot down in combat. Defense spending analyst Winslow Wheeler concluded from flight evaluation reports that the F-35A "is flawed beyond redemption";^[182] in response, program manager Bogdan suggested that pilots worried about being shot down should fly cargo aircraft instead.^[183] The same report found (in addition to the usual problems with the aircraft listed above):

• Current aircraft software is inadequate for even basic pilot training.
• Ejection seat may fail causing pilot fatality.
• Several pilot-vehicle interface issues, including lack of feedback on touch screen controls.
• The radar performs poorly or not at all.
• Engine replacement takes an average of 52 hours, instead of the two hours specified.
• Maintenance tools do not work.^[184]

The JPO responded that more experienced pilots would be able to safely operate the aircraft and that procedures would improve over time.^[185]

Even in the final "3F" software version, the F-35 will lack ROVER, in spite of having close air support as one of its primary missions.^[186]

A 2014 Pentagon report found these additional problems:

• Only a third of the fleet is airworthy.
• The Inertial navigation system does not work.
• There is an unknown bug with the AMRAAM.
• DAS confuses the aircraft's own flare launches with incoming missiles.
• A single well placed bullet can render the F-35B's vertical landing capabilities useless.^[187]

Now, it is not all bad news, here is a list of planned upgrades, most of which are scheduled by 2024:

 

Lockheed Martin's development roadmap extends until 2021, including a block 6 engine improvement in 2019. The aircraft are expected to be upgraded throughout their operational lives.^[192]

In September 2013, Northrop Grumman revealed the development of a company-funded Directional Infrared Counter Measures system in anticipation of a requirement to protect the F-35 from heat-seeking missiles. A laser jammer is expected to be part of the F-35 Block 5 upgrade; it must meet low-observability (LO) requirements and fit in the F-35's restricted space. Called the Threat Nullification Defensive Resource (ThNDR), it is to have a small, powerful laser, beam steering and LO window, use liquid cooling, and fit alongside the distributed aperture system (DAS) to provide spherical coverage with minimal changes; the DAS would provide missile warning and cue the jam head.^[193]

Combat capabilities of the F-35 are made possible through software increments to advance technical abilities. Block 2A software enhanced simulated weapons, data link capabilities, and early fused sensor integration. Block 2B software enables the F-35 to provide basic close air support with certain JDAMs and the 500 lb GBU-12 Paveway II, as well as fire the AIM-120 AMRAAM. The Air Force is to declare the F-35 initially operational with Block 3i software. Full operational capability will come from Block 3F software; Block 3F enhances its ability to suppress enemy air defenses and enables the Lightning II to deploy the 500 lb JDAM, the GBU-53/B SDB II, and the AIM-9X Sidewinder. Block 4 software will increase the weapons envelope of the F-35 and is made to counter air defenses envisioned to be encountered past the 2040s. Block 4 upgrades will be broken into two increments; Block 4A in 2021 and Block 4B in 2023. This phase will also include usage of weaponry unique to British, Turkish, and other European countries who will operate Lightning II.^[194]

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

Tywin, you state unrealistic number as a problem.  However, in CNRP, we have ways around that.  Primarily, the game has no concept of money or an economy. In the real world, yes, those types of numbers would cost trillions to buy and maintain, but that doesn't matter in CNRP.  Secondly, Triyun was a militaristic fascist empire, so if his leader said that 50% of their GDP was going towards the military, then by gum 50% of it was going to the military.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Tywin, your post, while lengthy and full of links, is lacking any reason as to why these claims are unreasonable. If you would come up with "This engine is unreasonable and unrealistic due to Reason A, Reason B and Reason C", it'd be worth considering to go over this, but there's nothing off the sort. It's just "This engine is unrealistic" (you can substitute engine for all other parts you pretty much said were unrealistic). Otherwise, your post is lengthy, but mostly copypaste from Wikipedia, it is badly formatted, lacking any coherent argument, despite its volume.

 

So, please try make a proper argument as to why the capabilities are unrealistic, or this will not get processed further.

 

Also, certain points already were discussed before and should be covered by now. So, I'll just ignore that you bring them up again.

 

Tywin, you state unrealistic number as a problem.  However, in CNRP, we have ways around that.  Primarily, the game has no concept of money or an economy. In the real world, yes, those types of numbers would cost trillions to buy and maintain, but that doesn't matter in CNRP.  Secondly, Triyun was a militaristic fascist empire, so if his leader said that 50% of their GDP was going towards the military, then by gum 50% of it was going to the military.

Also this. Triyun is in his number of aircraft solely limited by what the rules and modifiers dictate.

[The Zigur]

I don't understand why it is up to me to disprove the capabilities of fictional science fiction aircraft; the player utilizing these claims offensively should be providing the burden of proof, not the person defending with existing technologies.

 

This is exactly like saying I'd have to disprove in a detailed manner how an X-wing would be unfeasible to produce within a decade and being forced to go into it from an engineering perspective, when this should be common sense. My integration of computer technology with existing hardware was shot down very quickly, but not completely fictional assets based on technology that might happen?

[The Zigur]

Honestly, If I'm going to be hamstrung by technology year rules and can't do something as simple as integrate commercially available processing power with existing technologies, while another player gets to create flawless science fiction assets, I'm just going to quit and not bother playing at such an artificial and contrived disadvantage. I came here because this was advertised as more militarily realistic than CNRP2, but this is clearly not the case.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

It is first up to you to make a proper accusation. You also can't go and file a suit that your toothpaste doesn't consist out of the stuff that's written under ingredients, without first making a case why you think that'd be the case. Triyun has proven his aircraft multiple times in the past and we must assume that he is RPing by the rules, unless a well-reasoned claim to the contrary comes up. People also didn't just say "lolno, shoebox-size sats are unreasonable", but brought up multiple reasons as to why such be the case. Once you provide a list of concrete complaints with a reasoning as to why such be unrealistic, aside from just "them being unrealistic", we'll look into this further.

 

Also, you are entitled to your opinion and it is up to you whether you want to leave or not. I'm not going to stop anyone from doing so.

[The Zigur]

Triyuns assets are unrealistic because they are literally not based on tested verified real life assets and equipment. It's all theory and assumptions about what might be accomplished, with no open source information to determine this. He takes a hodgepodge of existing technologies and claims they are far more effective than they really are, and tacks made up numbers to concept art, and on top of this claims they can all be done with 2024 technology with ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE FROM REAL LIFE TO BACK IT UP.

 

I provided a link to his assets. There were zero references to back up his technological claims and capabilities, but I'm the one who's expected to disprove them.

 

I've already spent hours shooting down his claims of having long range microwave phasers, I'm just not going to spend even more hours on this than I already have, you guys go ahead and fly around your invincible make-believe aircraft and I will find something better to do.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[The Zigur]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

 

Here's a list of fallacious arguments and logic, and why I won't attempt to disprove Triyun's claims of an invisible pink elephant dancing on his shoulder.

 

Onus probandi – from Latin "onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat" the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim, not on the person who denies (or questions the claim).

Edited June 27, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[xoindotnler]

Silly Tywin, you should know that only the centriyunpede is allowed to have magic space planes that can shoot lasers and shit.

[Triyun]

1)  Evidence of problems in the development phase is not evidence the problem cannot be corrected, I've had 2 decades to improve upon these capabilities.

2)  The numbers I can field are set by a base rule for all players, you can't claim one thing applies to one player but not the other 30.

3)   Custom units aren't banned.  A lot of your assumptions are based on not having IRL equivalent technologies but that they are custom.  That's simply not what the rules state.  If you don't like the rules leave.  But you simply cannot ask for them to be applied differently to one specific player.

 

Also if you've spent hours on this, get a life.  You live in the most beautiful state in the greatest country in the world, go to the beach.

[Mogar]

considering you have spent  hundreds of hours designing the aircraft to win a fictional RP game in the first place, I don't think you are in a position to really tell someone to get a life.

[Triyun]

considering you have spent  hundreds of hours designing the aircraft to win a fictional RP game in the first place, I don't think you are in a position to really tell someone to get a life.

 

Hundreds?  More like 2 at most at any given time with spending 30 minutes maybe once every few months refining it over 4 years.  Not hours in one day.  Try again later.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

considering you have spent  hundreds of hours designing the aircraft to win a fictional RP game in the first place, I don't think you are in a position to really tell someone to get a life.

I think, if one knows what one is doing, it requires much less time to come up with a concept. If you know what you need to look out for and what to get, there's far less need to look it up. Same reason some need five hours for a war post, others half an hour to an hour.

[Generalissimo]

Wait a minute. . . didn't we go back to 2014 military technologies?

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Upper limit is 2024.

[Generalissimo]

 If you don't like the rules leave. 

Alternatively the rules can be changed.

[Captain Enema]

Yeah good luck with that.