Advice to Legion

[Mogar]

[quote name='ImperialCubanacan' timestamp='1310425636' post='2754571']
People who provide you with information are either lol'ing at you or they are seriously incompetent. At any rate -- I am sure that you DO have people who give you good information.... but, so do I. Anyone who is well known within our little world here can get information if they know the right people.
[/quote]
the #1 reason I have gotten for why they provided me with information (I do actually ask this and it usually indicates how trustworthy it actually is) tends to be they didn't like the decision that was made (war against an alliance they're friends with, etc) I'll agree some of them are retarded and getting information isnt all that difficult, I'm the only one people come to to make it public besides maybe schatt, but that's a different type of reporting.

[pezstar]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1310352329' post='2754162']
It is the adjective I would have chosen back then. Considering that back then Pez was the MoFA of the largest purple alliance and I was government in two other purple alliances (one after the other), I think I was in a very good position to make such a judgment as well.
[/quote]

I never spoke to you, not once, during the whopping FIVE WEEKS I was in Legion government, nearly four years ago. You have absolutely no idea what I was, and, as per usual, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[pezstar]

[quote name='ImperialCubanacan' timestamp='1310425636' post='2754571']
People who provide you with information are either lol'ing at you or they are seriously incompetent. At any rate -- I am sure that you DO have people who give you good information.... but, so do I. Anyone who is well known within our little world here can get information if they know the right people.
[/quote]

Hell, you don't even have to know the right people these days. People positively !@#$ information at you.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1310442479' post='2754696']
Hell, you don't even have to know the right people these days. People positively !@#$ information at you.
[/quote]

Hmm I wondered what that smell was, too many people with information incontinence....and here I was thinking it was just the legion rotting.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Rocky Horror' timestamp='1310340310' post='2754084']
[img]http://i.imgur.com/3fsek.jpg[/img]

This is literally you.

e: fixed ~offensive language~
[/quote]
I laughed.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1310442425' post='2754694']
I never spoke to you, not once, during the whopping FIVE WEEKS I was in Legion government, nearly four years ago. You have absolutely no idea what I was, and, as per usual, you have no idea what you're talking about.
[/quote]
That's right. While you were MoFA, you restricted your communications to those people in your tight little organization, missing out on people who were relevant to your concerns.

This is what insular people do. Thus my description.

[pezstar]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1310486056' post='2754940']
That's right. While you were MoFA, you restricted your communications to those people in your tight little organization, missing out on people who were relevant to your concerns.

This is what insular people do. Thus my description.
[/quote]

Actually, Legion attempted to contact Invicta several times during that period, and we were told under no uncertain terms that Invicta did not wish to speak to Legion and risk becoming involved with our Valhalla/NPO situation. Like I said, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1310489299' post='2754958']
Actually, Legion attempted to contact Invicta several times during that period, and we were told under no uncertain terms that Invicta did not wish to speak to Legion and risk becoming involved with our Valhalla/NPO situation. Like I said, you have no idea what you're talking about.
[/quote]
You know this personally?

No. You don't. All you know is (your distorted perception of) what Thom told you. He was the only member of Legion government to talk to us, and the only Legionnaire who had half a clue about what we were about otherwise was Hymen.

However, I was also government in NRGW. An alliance whose sole contact with Legion came via Itches. This was typical of Legion FA in your era: find one moderately-outgoing person to send to each alliance to talk to them, and then ignore what that person said.

[Bob]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1310499706' post='2755034']
You know this personally?

No. You don't. All you know is (your distorted perception of) what Thom told you. He was the only member of Legion government to talk to us, and the only Legionnaire who had half a clue about what we were about otherwise was Hymen.

However, I was also government in NRGW. An alliance whose sole contact with Legion came via Itches. This was typical of Legion FA in your era: find one moderately-outgoing person to send to each alliance to talk to them, and then ignore what that person said.
[/quote]
You seem to get offended that pezstar is making claims about things you think she wasn't directly involved, but then you make a blanket statement about Legion's FA. Rather contradictory.

Which one of you was the MoFA of Legion, and which one of you was the guy who had an encounter with Legion FA in Invicta?

Edited July 12, 2011 by Penlugue Solaris

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1310500244' post='2755040']
You seem to get offended that pezstar is making claims about things you think she wasn't directly involved, but then you are making a blanket statement about Legion's FA.
[/quote]
I'm not offended. I suspect pez is, but I'm not. I just think Pez was ... insular. Oh no.

I'm very rarely offended

Were I to be offended by everyone who is insular, I would be very frequently offended I suspect.

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1310500244' post='2755040']
Which one of you was the MoFA of Legion, and which one of you was the guy who had an encounter with Legion FA in Invicta?
[/quote]
This question is confusing. What are you talking about?

[KagetheSecond]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1310500400' post='2755042']


This question is confusing. What are you talking about?
[/quote]
He's asking which one of you was Legion MoFA and therefore has a better grasp on what they were doing at the time, and which one of you is basing their claims of Legion's FA path based on contact with one member of the FA team while NOT IN LEGION AT ALL.

I swear to God Haf, you are the most obtuse and frustrating person on the boards. You constantly have fingers in your ears and your only method of retort is "Nya Nyah I can't hear you!" Stop it. Stop everything. The feigned ignorance, the condescending replies, all of it.

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='KagetheSecond' timestamp='1310503032' post='2755066']
He's asking which one of you was Legion MoFA and therefore has a better grasp on what they were doing at the time, and which one of you is basing their claims of Legion's FA path based on contact with one member of the FA team while NOT IN LEGION AT ALL.

I swear to God Haf, you are the most obtuse and frustrating person on the boards. You constantly have fingers in your ears and your only method of retort is "Nya Nyah I can't hear you!" Stop it. Stop everything. The feigned ignorance, the condescending replies, all of it.
[/quote]

What was that? I didn't comprehend it.

[Thrash]

[quote name='KagetheSecond' timestamp='1310503032' post='2755066']
I swear to God Haf, you are the most obtuse and frustrating person on the boards. You constantly have fingers in your ears and your only method of retort is "Nya Nyah I can't hear you!" Stop it. Stop everything. The feigned ignorance, the condescending replies, all of it.
[/quote]

I'm glad he's back.

[pezstar]

[quote name='KagetheSecond' timestamp='1310503032' post='2755066']
He's asking which one of you was Legion MoFA and therefore has a better grasp on what they were doing at the time, and which one of you is basing their claims of Legion's FA path based on contact with one member of the FA team while NOT IN LEGION AT ALL.

I swear to God Haf, you are the most obtuse and frustrating person on the boards. You constantly have fingers in your ears and your only method of retort is "Nya Nyah I can't hear you!" Stop it. Stop everything. The feigned ignorance, the condescending replies, all of it.
[/quote]

The best part is that he has no idea that Thom Solo is reincarnated into a different and very active nation ruler.

[blueski]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1310486056' post='2754940']
That's right. While you were MoFA, you restricted your communications to those people in your tight little organization, missing out on people who were relevant to your concerns.

This is what insular people do. Thus my description.
[/quote]
Buddy, I don't think you're relevant to [i]anyone's[/i] concerns.

[KagetheSecond]

[quote name='Thrash' timestamp='1310511627' post='2755116']
I'm glad he's back.
[/quote]
And I'm glad Purple love is dead so I don't have to deal with your poor excuse for an alliance.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='KagetheSecond' timestamp='1310503032' post='2755066']
He's asking which one of you was Legion MoFA and therefore has a better grasp on what they were doing at the time, and which one of you is basing their claims of Legion's FA path based on contact with one member of the FA team while NOT IN LEGION AT ALL.
[/quote]
Yeah... No.

If it were any other department, you'd have a point.

However, we are talking about Foreign Affairs. The purpose of Foreign Affairs is to interact with people who are not inside the alliance. If they are not doing that, then they are not doing their job.

That's a very simple observation to make by someone in another alliance. Most (competent) FA folks spend more time talking to people outside their own alliance than they spend talking to people inside their own alliance, because that's what the job actually is.

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1310516365' post='2755169']
The best part is that he has no idea that Thom Solo is reincarnated into a different and very active nation ruler.
[/quote]
No, of course I have no clue that this is in fact the case.

[quote name='blueski' timestamp='1310520461' post='2755224']
Buddy, I don't think you're relevant to [i]anyone's[/i] concerns.
[/quote]
Before your time: and I don't think you've ever been exactly, shall we say, expert on Purple politics.

(Thankfully, I am no longer relevant to Purple politics. You probably consider that a good thing for Purple, while I consider that a good thing for myself.)

[Domingo the Honored]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1310516365' post='2755169']
The best part is that he has no idea that Thom Solo is reincarnated into a different and very active nation ruler.
[/quote]

Where may I find this Thom Solo that has proven to be so rare and elusive?

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Domingo the Honored' timestamp='1310762451' post='2756784']
Where may I find this Thom Solo that has proven to be so rare and elusive?
[/quote]

Probably hiding behind a new and snazzy nation name like "$%&@ legion" or maybe "Legion sucks" or similiar

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1309975245' post='2750499']
Hymenbreach for Proconsul with Lord Fingolfin as Imperator of Legion.
[/quote]

A delightful fantasy. I'm sure I'd blow my brains out after a week.

At this point I see very little hope for the alliance. Your laundry list of snafu's, horrible FA decisions, and horrible military decisions, have reached such a critical mass of fail that I would be hard pressed to believe that your reputation could ever be salvaged. BJ and Turin offered probably the most sound advice in the thread, as for myself I've long ago given my fair share of advice and I frankly can't be bothered to anymore.

Keep that NpO treaty though, its the only thing keeping you alive and it will allow me to finally get to hit you guys. Last time you were all in peace mode when TOP went to war with you. Legion is in the GGA pre-Karma mode. When NPO got trashed in Karma GGA effectively died. When NpO gets taken out Legion will shortly follow, an actual prolonged war where the whole alliance fights would be fairly devastating.



[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1310516365' post='2755169']
The best part is that he has no idea that Thom Solo is reincarnated into a different and very active nation ruler.
[/quote]

I knew that VL re-rolled and rejoined, must have missed this, I've been very happily removed from Legion and Purple politics for quite some time now. Who is the artist formerly known as Thom Solo now?

Edited July 15, 2011 by Lord Fingolfin

[pezstar]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1310754826' post='2756729']
Yeah... No.

If it were any other department, you'd have a point.

However, we are talking about Foreign Affairs. The purpose of Foreign Affairs is to interact with people who are not inside the alliance. If they are not doing that, then they are not doing their job.

That's a very simple observation to make by someone in another alliance. Most (competent) FA folks spend more time talking to people outside their own alliance than they spend talking to people inside their own alliance, because that's what the job actually is.


[/quote]

Just because I didn't speak to YOU doesn't mean I didn't speak to others. The conversation I referenced earlier is an example. You were not then, nor have you ever been, the only person people speak to in Invicta.

[Bob]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1310500400' post='2755042']
This question is confusing. What are you talking about?
[/quote]
Was pretty clear. Its been covered by someone else, however.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1310838806' post='2757284']
Just because I didn't speak to YOU doesn't mean I didn't speak to others. The conversation I referenced earlier is an example. You were not then, nor have you ever been, the only person people speak to in Invicta.
[/quote]

In fact the smart folk avoided it/him altogether

[Haflinger]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1310838806' post='2757284']
Just because I didn't speak to YOU doesn't mean I didn't speak to others. The conversation I referenced earlier is an example. You were not then, nor have you ever been, the only person people speak to in Invicta.
[/quote]
There're a few things wrong with this here.

[list=1]
[*]You should have met me before I joined Invicta. Quite a few people did (including several people at ODN, who at that time were operating more or less as Legion's FA wing), although it's true that I was more freely able to conduct diplomacy once I left NRGW's rather regimented diplomatic system. (Chefjoe met me after I joined Invicta, but before Purplegate, I believe. noWedge I ... met ... not long before Purplegate as well.)
[*]I'm aware you had some minimal contact with Dawny. I know because she told me about it (along with the rest of Invicta's government). You failed to do anything else, including even attempt to resolve your issues with Benji, at all. You never contacted NRGW directly at any point, despite being a treaty partner of theirs (and in fact had you done so you would have discovered they were extremely friendly to your cause). I suspect you still are not aware of who they were.
[*]While it's true that I've never (thankfully) been the only person people talk to in Invicta (although it has on occasion felt like it, gads), Invicta policy has been for a very long time to share any important communications with members of foreign governments in our government forums. So members of our government generally know when other alliances come to talk to us. There are rare exceptions to this, normally for opsec reasons, but ordinary alliance-to-alliance communication is not kept hidden in the FA or war departments.
[/list]

[potato]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1310941909' post='2757985']
There're a few things wrong with this here.

[list=1]
[*]You should have met me before I joined Invicta. Quite a few people did (including several people at [b]ODN, who at that time were operating more or less as Legion's FA wing[/b]), although it's true that I was more freely able to conduct diplomacy once I left NRGW's rather regimented diplomatic system. (Chefjoe met me after I joined Invicta, but before Purplegate, I believe. noWedge I ... met ... not long before Purplegate as well.)
[/list]
[/quote]

If I'm thinking about the same timeline, you're completely wrong. While Legion did talk to us prior to signing any new treaty, that's nothing out of the ordinary for allies to do. I can assure you ODN had no say in Legion's FA.