Mutual Aggression and Hate on Legion and Invicta Pact

[wickedj]

Two quick things.

If these forums had a "like" button i would be forced to "like" youwish's awesome post

secondly, if you dont like this why bother coming here to tell us you dont? I WONT SIGN THIS BECAUSE ITS MEAN!

[mattski133]

I get the impression that Legion members don't get out of their own alliance much.

Take some time, walk around, absorb some other culture while you're here. I feel like you're sheltered in an environment where you've been taught that making a declaration of war from peace mode, not aiding your small nations who cannot stand by themselves, ignoring your coalition mates, and hiding from a war that you, through diplomatic maneuvering, put yourselves in is as good an effort as anyone else put into the war.

You're making it clear that you have no idea what makes a good alliance, is what I'm trying to say.

I'd like to be a part of this, but some guys from TPF and NSO had the stones to show up and fight. You should take notes from them.

Edited June 29, 2011 by mattski133

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1309352957' post='2744152']
That is a comprehensive rebuke, I look forward to Legion members (esp. Sabcat) attempting to pick this apart
[/quote]

Well hold on to your butts, cause here it goes.

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1309352203' post='2744148']
Let me preface this by saying that first off the New Sith Order is not and never will be allied to The Legion. Nor does us having a mutual ally or being in a coalition by itself require us to play nice with you. [/quote]

True, and we don't expect you to. However when someone(s) unjustifiably calls us on the carpet, or liars (that's coming up next), or cowards don't expect us to just sit back and take it.

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1309352203' post='2744148']
There are many lies that have been spread through these pages by Legionaires; whether or not that is due to misinformation by their government, plain stupidity, or sheer incompetence, I am not sure. What I do know is a few fun facts. [/quote]

Lies, by Legionnaires? Where? Show me where I lied first off, and then, if you can, show me where other Legionnaires have lied in this thread. If your accusations pan out I'll reprimand them myself. If not then you're not doing anything but blowing hot air like the rest of these guys. I asked another here to dispense with the typical Legion is horrible and show me some actual evidence, but all I got was more Legion=Stupid rhetoric. I really hope that you have something of substance to say besides the drivel I'm blasting off the pages here.


[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1309352203' post='2744148']
1. Legion can $%&@ off.
2. Legion did refuse to hit Mushroom Kingdom.
[spoiler][01:42] <@Watcher> if we hit MK that brings TOP on us
[01:42] <@Watcher> and we cant effectively fight MK and TOP, our upper is weak
01[01:42] <&[NSO]youwish959> heh - someone's gonna have to do it
[01:43] <@Watcher> and it wont be us
01[01:43] <&[NSO]youwish959> At least you have an upper tier
[01:43] <@Watcher> which im not going to sacrifice [/spoiler]
3. Legion did refuse coalition requests on multiple occasions.
[/quote]

1. Uh - whatever
2. After the first round with GOONS our offensive targets were almost exclusively MK, so how does that add up to a refusal to hit them? Even with so few lines the passage you're using from Watcher is obviously from a planning session. At the time TOP had yet to enter so yes hitting MK would have brought TOP in to everyone's determent.

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1309352203' post='2744148']
4. Legion had 97% of their 200+ member alliance in peace mode at some points after the war began. Seriously what the hell. I mean I can understand if it was before the war began, as that would be a sound military strategy so as you maintain control of when your nations go to war, but no sound military is not Legion's style.
[/quote]

The oft quoted 97% is still a load of rubbish, and stems from the coalition requests that you claim we were so fond of refusing. We asked our allies on more than one occasion if they wanted us to come in, and it was decided to hold us back for a while. Still we had some large part of the alliance involved in the war throughout it's duration, and towards the end the entire alliance was actively fighting until May 2nd. Where were you at that time? Oh yeah that's right you were in peace mode with a tidy little surrender agreement in your back pocket.

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1309352203' post='2744148']
5. I don't really feel like disputing Henry's [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=103058&view=findpost&p=2743020"]numbers[/url], as I'm sure they are correct. However, when you consider that Legion fought for 42 more days than the Sith and only lost 15% more of their NS than ourselves it is not all that great. If we had continued our average rate of loss and remained in the war then we would have been at a total of 73% of NS lost by the end of the war on May 2nd.
6. We surrendered because we were out of money, period. That's really all there is to it. As Varianz mentioned earlier, we were sending hundreds of millions in aid to our allies while Legion sat in peace mode ignoring coalition requests to the contrary. By the end of it we were resorting to aid chains, a !@#$@#$ tactic from 2007 that should never have to be used when you have an able bodied alliance in your coalition able to come out and relieve pressure. FFS, I was happier than all hell when I was able to dig up $6,000,000 in aid after arduous searching. [i]But hey, Legion had to revert back to [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Dove_War"]2007 tactics[/url] too![/i]
7. $%&@ Legion
[/quote]

5. So you're saying that we're incompetent because we fought longer and took less damage than you?!? Now that IS a stretch of logic. The object of war is to do more damage to the enemy than you take yourselves. Try to keep that in mind next time.

6. Here's some more advice for the next war, Save Money. There's this thing called a warchest. That's where you put a little aside every now and again for a radiationy day. So when the iSabre 5 comes out just keep on walking past the Sith Buy.

When we did come out the aid we sent was to our lower tiers, and then to our allies. The money we had leftover went to 2nd and 3rd rounds of aid to our lower tiers and again our allies. NSO was no where on that list for the very reason you point out, we weren't allied to you. Sorry you waited with your hand out, but we just didn't get around to you. See we were busy fighting a war and hitting MK at the time. We'll try to hit you up next time, Darth Bellhop.

7. See point #1.

[TheManWithoutAPlan]

Can we lock this? This is just full of trolls and arguments...

[Bob]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1309404565' post='2744735']

5. So you're saying that we're incompetent because we fought longer and took less damage than you?!? Now that IS a stretch of logic. The object of war is to do more damage to the enemy than you take yourselves. Try to keep that in mind next time. [/quote]
You didn't do more damage, to state that would be a lie (you specifically meaning Legion, I have no idea if the coalition did more damage than it took). And you fought longer because 96.7? percent of your alliance was in peace mode at some points in time, thus also making you take less damage.


[quote]
6. Here's some more advice for the next war, Save Money. There's this thing called a warchest. That's where you put a little aside every now and again for a radiationy day. So when the iSabre 5 comes out just keep on walking past the Sith Buy.
[/quote]
you do realize they had been in multiple wars in the past year, making their warchests depleted, while you were all fresh?

[justavictim82]

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1309352203' post='2744148']
Let me preface this by saying that first off the New Sith Order is not and never will be allied to The Legion. Nor does us having a mutual ally or being in a coalition by itself require us to play nice with you. There are many lies that have been spread through these pages by Legionaires; whether or not that is due to misinformation by their government, plain stupidity, or sheer incompetence, I am not sure. What I do know is a few fun facts.

1. Legion can $%&@ off.
2. Legion did refuse to hit Mushroom Kingdom.
[spoiler][01:42] <@Watcher> if we hit MK that brings TOP on us
[01:42] <@Watcher> and we cant effectively fight MK and TOP, our upper is weak
01[01:42] <&[NSO]youwish959> heh - someone's gonna have to do it
[01:43] <@Watcher> and it wont be us
01[01:43] <&[NSO]youwish959> At least you have an upper tier
[01:43] <@Watcher> which im not going to sacrifice [/spoiler]
3. Legion did refuse coalition requests on multiple occasions.
4. Legion had 97% of their 200+ member alliance in peace mode at some points after the war began. Seriously what the hell. I mean I can understand if it was before the war began, as that would be a sound military strategy so as you maintain control of when your nations go to war, but no sound military is not Legion's style.
5. I don't really feel like disputing Henry's [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=103058&view=findpost&p=2743020]numbers[/url], as I'm sure they are correct. However, when you consider that Legion fought for 42 more days than the Sith and only lost 15% more of their NS than ourselves it is not all that great. If we had continued our average rate of loss and remained in the war then we would have been at a total of 73% of NS lost by the end of the war on May 2nd.
6. We surrendered because we were out of money, period. That's really all there is to it. As Varianz mentioned earlier, we were sending hundreds of millions in aid to our allies while Legion sat in peace mode ignoring coalition requests to the contrary. By the end of it we were resorting to aid chains, a !@#$@#$ tactic from 2007 that should never have to be used when you have an able bodied alliance in your coalition able to come out and relieve pressure. FFS, I was happier than all hell when I was able to dig up $6,000,000 in aid after arduous searching. [i]But hey, Legion had to revert back to [url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Dove_War]2007 tactics[/url] too![/i]
7. $%&@ Legion
[/quote]

1) you can choose to hate us (that's what sith do right?) but remember sooner or later you will run out of alliances to throw under the bus and I will laugh at you.

2)We hit and were hit by MK pretty substanially. In fact after the first round of attacks, we pretty much singled out MK. Those terrific logs were taken in a coordination channel when we were plotting out entry. Nice try on spinning that.

3)What coaliltion requests? from you? oh noes! We were there defend NPO. Period. Its not our fault that you threw a hissy fit and held up everything when you didnt get your way.

4)97%? thats pretty damn high and a complete lie. I can tell you that it was at the most 80%. We lost about 50 nations due to inactivity and bill lock during the war, most of which within the first 3 weeks because they refused to acknowledge the order to get to PM. Now I am not privy to the details but I know for a fact that the Sith had more than their fair share in hippie mode.

5)So what you are saying is that the Sith were/are, at best, unprepared for conflict and at worst horrible fighters. Considering that you went in on your own free will, Im gonna take a stab at the latter.

6) Here is a free lesson for you: stop creating international incidents that require you to bail yourselves out of getting rolled. Maybe then you will have enough money to survive more than 2 rounds.

7) I love you two, youwish

[conistonslim]

Oh Legion You performed admirally this past war, don't let the naysayers get you down! (LOL. sorry, just can't say that with a straight face. )

Edited June 30, 2011 by conistonslim

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1309408351' post='2744790']
1. You didn't do more damage, to state that would be a lie (you specifically meaning Legion, I have no idea if the coalition did more damage than it took). And you fought longer because 96.7? percent of your alliance was in peace mode at some points in time, thus also making you take less damage.



2. you do realize they had been in multiple wars in the past year, making their warchests depleted, while you were all fresh?
[/quote]

1. I didn't say that we did more damage than we took, because I don't know if we did or didn't. I was refuting his point that we were somehow less because we didn't take as much damage as NSO did.

2. Yes I do realize what they had been through, and they should be commended for jumping in when they did. Where I find fault is that they complained about it after they joined the fight; and a good chunk of that complaining is directed at us. They knew what condition they were in, they knew who they were up against, and they came in anyway. The consequences are on NSO's heads, not ours. As I said even if we came in exactly when they wanted us to (which by the way was against the planning wishes of the rest of the coalition) we wouldn't have helped them militarily or economically. We had ourselves and our allies to take care of first.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1309404565' post='2744735']
Well hold on to your butts, cause here it goes.
[/quote]
A decent enough effort, not sure it has persuaded those of us on the sidelines but bravo for giving it a shot.

[quote name='TheManWithoutAPlan' timestamp='1309408316' post='2744789']
Can we lock this?
[/quote]

Edited June 30, 2011 by Cataduanes

[Varianz]

I see Legion came out to play- there are no pixels at risk on the OWF !

Just a few things I'd like to laugh at from Legion members- some gems, if you will:

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1309404565' post='2744735']
Even with so few lines the passage you're using from Watcher is obviously from a planning session. At the time TOP had yet to enter so yes hitting MK would have brought TOP in to everyone's determent.
[/quote]
The fact that you guys thought that not hitting MK would somehow keep TOP out of the war is comedy gold. A++ for tactical planning Legion.

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1309404565' post='2744735']
6. Here's some more advice for the next war, Save Money. There's this thing called a warchest. That's where you put a little aside every now and again for a radiationy day. So when the iSabre 5 comes out just keep on walking past the Sith Buy.
[/quote]
I've seen the numbers on Legion warchests. I remember explaining to one of your members who I was fighting against a mutual target with why a warchest was important. He hadn't gotten any info about keeping one since he entered Legion and thought the amount he had on hand for a warchest as a 3NS new nation was enough. Good times. Contrary to Legion, we actively work to improve our warchests and other military statistics- unfortunately for us, we don't surrender (and then change our minds, if anyone remembers that little episode) and then re-surrender after a week and a half of war. We actually fight wars, always outnumbered, and hence, we were a little war-exhausted.

[quote name='justavictim82' timestamp='1309408539' post='2744795']
4)97%? thats pretty damn high and a complete lie. I can tell you that it was at the most 80%. We lost about 50 nations due to inactivity and bill lock during the war, most of which within the first 3 weeks because they refused to acknowledge the order to get to PM. Now I am not privy to the details but I know for a fact that the Sith had more than their fair share in hippie mode.
[/quote]
No, it's actually well documented. They weren't there the whole time, but at one point 97% of your NS was in PM. As for our use of hippie: duh. We cycled nations in and out, particularly larger nations who needed to re-stock nukes. Thing is, they always came back out very quickly. Only two NSO nations stayed in PM the entire war, both of whom were having their nations sat at the time.

[quote name='justavictim82' timestamp='1309408539' post='2744795']
5)So what you are saying is that the Sith were/are, at best, unprepared for conflict and at worst horrible fighters. Considering that you went in on your own free will, Im gonna take a stab at the latter.
[/quote]
I'm too lazy to go find all the posts by GOONS members saying it was a tossup between us and TPF for the best opponents of the war.

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1309409141' post='2744804']
As I said even if we came in exactly when they wanted us to (which by the way was against the planning wishes of the rest of the coalition) we wouldn't have helped them militarily or economically. We had ourselves and our allies to take care of first.
[/quote]
I remember organizing aid for non-NSO allies several times. You sir, are an !@#$%^& if you don't think that aiding your coalition mates is 1. smart, and 2. honorable. Then again, I don't know why I would expect more from Legion.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1309258676' post='2743366']

Near the middle and end of the war you very rarely could find a Legion nation in that range in war mode.
[/quote]


The same could be said of DH, pretty much all of MK was in PM, GOONs middle was gone. Umbrella had about 2 nations under 50k in war mode and I wiped at least one of them out myself.

[Feanor Noldorin]

Just want to jump in and say NSO deserves massive respect for jumping into the war at full speed while everyone else was adhering to that retarded ~strategy~.

[Melancholy Culkin]

I won't necessarily say I hate either of these alliances but the showing of some members in this thread just reaffirms my disbelief that Legion actually has treaties with real alliances.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Melancholy Culkin

[TheManWithoutAPlan]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1309414648' post='2744880']
Just want to jump in and say NSO deserves massive respect for jumping into the war at full speed while everyone else was adhering to that retarded ~strategy~.
[/quote]
Says TOP

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='TheManWithoutAPlan' timestamp='1309415703' post='2744887']
Says TOP
[/quote]
What does my alliance have to do with any of this? My opinions are my own.

[Sniper Joe]

[quote name='TheManWithoutAPlan' timestamp='1309408316' post='2744789']
Can we lock this? This is just full of trolls and arguments...
[/quote]

Welcome to the OWF.

P.S. Legion sux. Sign me up.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='TheManWithoutAPlan' timestamp='1309415703' post='2744887']
Says TOP
[/quote]
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? Because it really just adds to his credibility.

[Sabcat]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1309410411' post='2744823']I've seen the numbers on Legion warchests. I remember explaining to one of your members who I was fighting against a mutual target with why a warchest was important. He hadn't gotten any info about keeping one since he entered Legion and thought the amount he had on hand for a warchest as a 3NS new nation was enough. Good times. Contrary to Legion, we actively work to improve our warchests and other military statistics- unfortunately for us, we don't surrender (and then change our minds, if anyone remembers that little episode) and then re-surrender after a week and a half of war. We actually fight wars, always outnumbered, and hence, we were a little war-exhausted.[/quote]

You're a funny man for a lying surrender monkey. Would you like me to post the logs of the conversation you had with one of our inactives (long since gone), the one where you posted your WC that you thought was "not really enough" and your reaction when you were told what the Legion WC requirement is? If there's one thing that every active Legion member can't avoid it's constant war chest reminders and checks. Personally I went into the war with enough of a WC to fight to near ZI, rebuild to 1999 fight to near ZI and rebuild to 1300 again. You're a joke.

You were war exhausted because of your ineptitude which led you to hand yourselves to your enemies. You're a waste of pixels.

Edit to add:

The last war you fought ended more than 5 months before the DH conflict began. I thought (correct me if I'm wrong) that you received substantial rebuilding aid from allies. Long enough for anyone who tried to to build a WC and I'd have thought that it'd weed out most if not all of your inactives.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Sabcat

[Fulgrim]

[quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1309426268' post='2744931']
Personally I went into the war with enough of a WC to fight to near ZI, rebuild to 1999 fight to near ZI and rebuild to 1300 again. You're a joke.[/quote]

That there warchest sounds like a bit of a joke to me; it certainly isn't worth bragging about and if that is what you are advising your colleagues to attain, you need to up your game a tad.

[Sniper Joe]

There are so many things to point out and laugh at in this thread that I wouldn't even know where to start.

You're !@#$@#$ failures Legion. You suck up potentially useful nations and don't teach them properly, nations that could be put to better use in quality alliances. You can't fight a war to save your goddamn life. You're useless cowards. You're lapdogs. You are little more than a liability and a worthless meatshield, if you ever decide to come out of peace mode. I truly feel sorry for anyone that has to deal with you in any capacity. You've been around since 2006 and still don't know how to play this [OOC:]game[/OOC]. You are a stain upon the face of the cyberverse. Please, for the sake of your own dignity and for the good of our world, disband. You are a disgrace.

Sincerely,

$%&@ you.

[Sabcat]

Such a reasoned and well articulated argument Joe, thank you.

[Sniper Joe]

[quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1309431315' post='2744942']
Such a reasoned and well articulated argument Joe, thank you.
[/quote]

Have you read the thread? Do you know the history of your own alliance? Is your head shoved too far up your nether regions to see what's right in front of your face? The reasons for The Legion's awfulness have been laid out in detail in this thread and many others. My restating of the facts wouldn't make a difference. Accept the fact that you are in a terrible alliance.

[TheManWithoutAPlan]

[quote name='Sniper Joe' timestamp='1309431131' post='2744941']
There are [b]so many things to point out and laugh at in this thread [/b]that I wouldn't even know where to start.

[b]You're !@#$@#$ failures Legion. You suck up potentially useful nations and don't teach them properly, nations that could be put to better use in quality alliances. You can't fight a war to save your goddamn life. You're useless cowards. You're lapdogs. You are little more than a liability and a worthless meatshield, if you ever decide to come out of peace mode. I truly feel sorry for anyone that has to deal with you in any capacity. You've been around since 2006 and still don't know how to play this [OOC:]game[/OOC]. You are a stain upon the face of the cyberverse. Please, for the sake of your own dignity and for the good of our world, disband. You are a disgrace.[/b]

Sincerely,

$%&@ you.
[/quote]

I lol'd

[Sabcat]

[quote name='Sniper Joe' timestamp='1309431617' post='2744947']
Have you read the thread? Do you know the history of your own alliance? Is your head shoved too far up your nether regions to see what's right in front of your face? The reasons for The Legion's awfulness have been laid out in detail in this thread and many others. My restating of the facts wouldn't make a difference. Accept the fact that you are in a terrible alliance.
[/quote]

Again I thank you Joe, you're analysis of my alliance is as enjoyable as it is erudite.

[Sniper Joe]

I love how you guys don't even try to defend your own terribleness anymore. Nor do you refute anything I say. You just lay there and take it. Not surprising, really.