I hate GGA drama

[mhawk]

PART ONE

First I'm deeply upset things got to this. I'll outline things from MY and TPF's point of view.

Second I'd like to blame this stupid drama for causing me to forget to buy my nukes tonight for use on Archon.

So it all starts back when the GGA posted the new triums. I didn't bother reading the thread since I presumed it had nose dived into the typical GGA bashing. Then one bored night a few days later I foolishly wandered into the mud pit and came across someone claiming there was a coup. I figured alright, I'll go ask my allies what is up, leading to the following.

Essentially the reason they removed their gov was he took too long to vote and another guy ordered someone out of peacemode. I wanted to know more about the various votes that took place so I questioned them all separately. After this conversation.

#03[23:18] * mhawk changes topic to 'DMR#'

#01[23:18] <~mhawk> just waiting or shane

[23:18] <DeScepter> Ok

#03[23:18] * shaneprice[GGA]has joined #m1a

[23:18] <DeScepter> Here he is!

#03[23:18] * Pansy has joined #m1a

#03[23:18] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Pansy

#01[23:18] <~mhawk> hey guys

[23:19] <@Pansy> holla

#01[23:19] <~mhawk> basically I'm confused whats going on

#01[23:19] <~mhawk> you guys removed two trium?

#01[23:19] <~mhawk> and the third resigned?

[23:19] <shaneprice[GGA]> Yes, the Elder Statesmen removed KFH and SWR.

#01[23:19] <~mhawk> and these alliegations of a couping

[23:19] <shaneprice[GGA]> Degen submitted his resignation last night.

#01[23:19] <~mhawk> what is an easy way to explain it to us non gga

[23:20] <shaneprice[GGA]> There is no coup...this was conducted in line with past precedent and in accordance with Article 3 Section B of the GGA Charter.

#06[23:20] * shaneprice[GGA] facepalms

#01[23:20] <~mhawk> y'all might want to clear it up

#01[23:20] <~mhawk> since everyone thinks a coup happened

#01[23:20] <~mhawk> http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1544274

[23:21] <shaneprice[GGA]> I know what they think. I posted in that thread that I would respond as soon as I had the opportunity to take care of some internal issues.

[23:21] <shaneprice[GGA]> Those are my priority at the moment...but a response will come.

#01[23:21] <~mhawk> is there a quick and dirty response for us ?

[23:22] <DeScepter> Yes sir. WE hope to respond to all questions ASAP

[23:22] <DeScepter> lol

[23:22] <shaneprice[GGA]> LMAO DeScepter.

[23:22] <DeScepter> Didnt mean to bold WE

[23:22] <shaneprice[GGA]> Ask your specific questions I will do my best to answer them.

#01[23:22] <~mhawk> um...

#01[23:23] <~mhawk> I didn't mean that as an order descepter

[23:23] <DeScepter> lol

[23:23] <shaneprice[GGA]> She is new...LOL

[23:23] <DeScepter> No, I know.

[23:23] <shaneprice[GGA]> and has a wierd sense of humor.

[23:23] <DeScepter> Screw you shane!

#01[23:23] <~mhawk> I just don't know who is in charge, I've never met you before, and people are saying our ally is couped

#01[23:23] <~mhawk> i just wanted to know what was going on

[23:24] <shaneprice[GGA]> Ok..start to finish.

[23:24] <DeScepter> I understand. I would be concerned as well if I was in your shoes

[23:24] <shaneprice[GGA]> Ironchef posted a censure for the removal of SWR and KFH.

#01[23:24] <~mhawk> the reasoning?

[23:24] <shaneprice[GGA]> SWR was deliberately holding up voting on our move for peace...

[23:25] <shaneprice[GGA]> we were losing members left and right...Moo told us to get out while we still could.

[23:25] <shaneprice[GGA]> It wasn't that he wanted to vote no (which he did) It is the fact that he wouldn't vote at all.

#01[23:26] <~mhawk> wouldn't vote?

[23:26] <@Pansy> Hold up

#06[23:26] * shaneprice[GGA] holding.

[23:26] <@Pansy> so you couped yourselves over a trium thinking about a choice

[23:26] <@Pansy> because it is couping

[23:26] <@Pansy> no matter how you wash it in your charter

[23:27] <shaneprice[GGA]> No it is not...we did not coup anyone...this procedure is authorized by precedent and the charter...in addition there is more.

[23:27] <shaneprice[GGA]> He was constantly disrespectful to members.

[23:27] <shaneprice[GGA]> Calling them foul names.

[23:27] <shaneprice[GGA]> Offending many

[23:28] <shaneprice[GGA]> In addition...he had made it clear that his vote was no...he just wouldn't cast it so we could move on.

[23:28] <@Pansy> both of them were like this yes?

[23:28] <shaneprice[GGA]> KFH wanted to talk to scotch...and while that caused friction...that is not why KFH was censured.

[23:29] <@Pansy> also DeScepter, you might want to think on how you address your allies

[23:29] <DeScepter> I'm sorry. Did I offend someone?

[23:29] <@Pansy> you seem very sarcastic towards a general concern from your close allies

#01[23:30] <~mhawk> we just havn't met before DeScepter

[23:30] <DeScepter> Oh no, not at all. I apologize if it seems that way.

[23:30] <@Pansy> and to be honest if you spoke to me that way , id have slapped you back down

#01[23:30] <~mhawk> i took the "yes sir" as mocking my question

[23:30] <DeScepter> Oh

[23:30] <DeScepter> NO

[23:30] <DeScepter> lol

[23:30] <DeScepter> Sorry

[23:30] <@Pansy> np

[23:30] <DeScepter> Didnt me it like that at all

[23:30] <@Pansy> just being open and honest with you

[23:30] <DeScepter> Thanks

#01[23:30] <~mhawk> it's alright

[23:30] <DeScepter> I appreciate it

[23:30] <@Pansy> so

#01[23:30] <~mhawk> I'm mr. serious

#01[23:30] <~mhawk>

[23:31] <@Pansy> how long was this vote open

[23:31] <DeScepter> I wasnt trying to be like that. Was just trying to be respectful honestly

[23:31] <DeScepter>

[23:31] <shaneprice[GGA]> Approximately 6 hours.

[23:31] <@Pansy> sorry?

[23:31] <shaneprice[GGA]> How long was the vote open

[23:31] <@Pansy> the vote was open 6 hours so you booted

#03[23:31] * Desperado` has joined #m1a

#03[23:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +oa Desperado` Desperado`

[23:31] <@Pansy> wtf

#01[23:32] <~mhawk> desp is TPF #2

[23:32] <shaneprice[GGA]> We did not just boot him for that...as I have explained above.

[23:32] <shaneprice[GGA]> As far as KFH...

[23:32] <@Pansy> but you are using this as a reason yes?

[23:32] <shaneprice[GGA]> What ended up earning him his censure was an incident involving WalkerTexasKittty.

[23:33] <@Pansy> you said that the vote was a reason

[23:33] <shaneprice[GGA]> Yes we are...he was explained that it was a time-critical situation.

[23:33] <@Pansy> one of the reasons

[23:33] <@Pansy> yet it was only 6 hours old

[23:33] <@Pansy> im sorry

[23:33] <@Pansy> thats a !@#$@#$ !@#$%^&* reason

[23:33] <shaneprice[GGA]> In your opinion maybe.

[23:34] <shaneprice[GGA]> An opinion which you are entitled to.

[23:34] <@Pansy> yes in my opinion

[23:34] <shaneprice[GGA]> Moving on to KFH.

[23:34] <@Pansy> and you will get trounced on the owf AGAIN over this

[23:34] <shaneprice[GGA]> Possibly...but we are confident that based on that and his general treatment of GGA membership that our actions were justified.

[23:35] <@Pansy> id seriously advice you leave the vote part well out of any reason

[23:36] <shaneprice[GGA]> Now with KFH...

#01[23:36] <~mhawk> k

[23:36] <@Pansy> yes Kung Fu

-- removed for OOC--

[23:38] <shaneprice[GGA]> Getting to that...

[23:38] <shaneprice[GGA]> At this point...

[23:38] <shaneprice[GGA]> Several days later...KFH revoked that permission and ordered her back into war mode...

[23:38] <shaneprice[GGA]> he stated that such a request required a vote of the triumvirate.

[23:38] <shaneprice[GGA]> which it does not.

[23:39] <shaneprice[GGA]> The big problem...

[23:39] <shaneprice[GGA]> he never brought this issue to the triumvirate...

[23:39] <shaneprice[GGA]> never sent a PM

[23:39] <shaneprice[GGA]> never posted a vote.

[23:39] <shaneprice[GGA]> nothing.

[23:39] <@Pansy> and ---- didnt just tell him to get knotted

[23:39] <shaneprice[GGA]> ----- again asked as the war was approaching.

[23:40] <shaneprice[GGA]> This time...the request was granted...but by that time...it was too late.

[23:40] <shaneprice[GGA]> she was already engaged.

[23:40] <shaneprice[GGA]> Point being...

[23:40] <shaneprice[GGA]> no members are not required to request permission but ---- believed that she was required to do so.

[23:40] <@Pansy> ok, is this the only issue with KFH?

[23:41] <shaneprice[GGA]> yes

[23:41] <@Pansy> So you removed KFH for one silly move on his part?

[23:41] <@Pansy> admittedly KFH needs to sort his head out there

[23:41] <shaneprice[GGA]> An extremely stupid move that caused a great deal of real-life problems for a valued member.

#01[23:42] <~mhawk> hey what happened with degen?

[23:42] <@Pansy> but to remove a tri over an arguement over peace mode is quite ERRRR

[23:42] <shaneprice[GGA]> I would have been more receptive...

[23:42] <shaneprice[GGA]> but he was not even remotely apologetic for his role in this.

[23:42] <shaneprice[GGA]> degen felt that he was equally to blame for the failings of the government.

[23:42] <shaneprice[GGA]> He submitted his resignation last night.

[23:42] <@Pansy> did you have a quiet word with him?

[23:43] <shaneprice[GGA]> It was brought up to him in our private government channel.

[23:44] <shaneprice[GGA]> If you would like we can have degenerate108 come in

[23:44] <@Pansy> was KFH fully aware of the situation with Walker?

[23:44] <@Pansy> before the order

#01[23:45] <~mhawk> yeah shane

#01[23:45] <~mhawk> that would be good

#03[23:45] * degenerate108 () has joined #m1a

[23:45] <@Pansy> So, who esactly is running the show there now?

[23:45] <degenerate108> >.>

[23:45] <@Pansy> exactly*

[23:45] <shaneprice[GGA]> KFH was aware of the problem yes. It has been discussed a week prior to censure.

[23:46] <shaneprice[GGA]> Currently myself and DeScepter are the sitting triumvirs.

#01[23:46] <~mhawk> ok so degen

#01[23:46] <~mhawk> what happened man?

[23:46] <@Pansy> and were you not the one who log dumped on GGA recently

[23:46] <degenerate108> welp it went like this,

[23:46] <degenerate108> swr was an inept !@#$%^& his vote should have come months ago

[23:47] <@Pansy> fair enough Degen

[23:47] <degenerate108> KFH learned alot of bad habits from both swr and i

[23:47] <@Pansy> but using a vote 6 hours old as a reason stinks

[23:47] <@Pansy> and you will get trolled to hell for it

[23:47] <degenerate108> perhaps thats the official stance

[23:47] <degenerate108> however its deeper than that

[23:48] <degenerate108> swr was in effect useless on most fronts internally

[23:48] <@Pansy> deeper than that or not

[23:48] <degenerate108> however theres no point in posting that everywhere

[23:48] <@Pansy> you will be made to look like !@#$@#$ idiots again on the OPWF

[23:48] <shaneprice[GGA]> With respect to our public opinion on the OWF...we can't get much further down at the moment.

[23:49] <degenerate108> my opinion is that it would happen regardless

[23:49] <@Pansy> trust me

[23:49] <@Pansy> with this you will find new depths

[23:49] <degenerate108> bottom line is though, the fat was trimmed out of the tri and all three of us were offered spots as elders

[23:49] <degenerate108> despite what swr claims

[23:49] <@Pansy> your removing SWR and KFH elder spots after these issues

[23:50] <@Pansy> what the $%&@

[23:50] <@Pansy> and giving

[23:50] <@Pansy> *

[23:50] <@Pansy> so these people would have veto powers etc

[23:50] <degenerate108> probationary elder positions just like everyone else got

#01[23:50] <~mhawk> how did the new triums get picked?

[23:50] <degenerate108> minus JB

[23:50] <degenerate108> descepter was next in line

[23:51] <@Pansy> and shane price

[23:51] <degenerate108> shane was the only elder left to take a spot

[23:51] <@Pansy> who was trolling and log dumping on you recently?

[23:51] <degenerate108> otherwise my resigning would be redundant

[23:51] <@Pansy> I am sorry but this makes me feel very uncomfortable

[23:52] <degenerate108> let bygones be bygones, i $%&@ed shane out of the tri in the first place

[23:52] <degenerate108> tables had of been turned and i would have not only burned that bridge but pissed on the remains

[23:52] <degenerate108> shane proved himself capable during the war, he essentially headed up our end of the military strategy

[23:53] <degenerate108> so i mean if there was ever a time to stick it to the GGA it would have been than

[23:53] <@Pansy> GGA has had some seriously epic timing for issues recently Degen

[23:54] <shaneprice[GGA]> Well degenerate108...I would have to point out that I did actually lose that war.

[23:54] <@Pansy> will this new Tri be the end of these issues

[23:54] <shaneprice[GGA]> just point that out.

[23:57] <@Pansy> is swr still a member

[23:57] <shaneprice[GGA]> He is as long as he wants to be.

[23:58] <@Pansy> then why is he demanding an answer on the public boards

[23:58] <degenerate108> swr has the uncanny ability to be epic in the stupids department

[23:58] <@Pansy> and then moaning about no answer 12 hours later

[23:58] <shaneprice[GGA]> He is angry at the moment and asked us to kick him from the alliance. This is not something that we wish to do.

[23:58] <degenerate108> cause he was banned from the private channels after attacking a 16 year old yesterday

#01[23:58] <~mhawk> ?

[23:59] <&Desperado`> wait, what?

[23:59] <degenerate108> he let loose on a member

[23:59] <shaneprice[GGA]> his behavior towards the membership has always been a problem. He talks down to people, curses at them, calls them stupid, call them idiots...and the like.

Session Time: Thu May 21 00:00:00 2009

[00:00] <DeScepter> SWR is playing dumb. He knows the reasons behind his removal.

[00:00] <@Pansy> when was the last time you lot just let someone retire without being removed

[00:00] <DeScepter> His behavior and attitude towards members is a big part of that.

[00:00] <degenerate108> same guy that wanted to tell athens to go $%&@ themselves after we secured peace

[00:00] <@Pansy> seriously I am trying to think of a GGA tri who wasnt removed

[00:00] <degenerate108> lol

[00:01] <degenerate108> bilrow

[00:01] <&Desperado`> wait, you dont have a word filter on your forums?! what is this !@#$

[00:01] <@Pansy> yes Degen your the first i can think of since Bilrow

[00:02] <degenerate108> its kinda sad when you compare the track records >.>

[00:03] <@Pansy> this is happening with far to frequent occurance

[00:03] <degenerate108> this is what happens with a wounded alliance im afraid

[00:03] <shaneprice[GGA]> Derek Jones retired.

[00:03] <degenerate108> if you guys are worried about FA theres no need, that hasn't changed

[00:03] <@Pansy> thats crap Degen

[00:04] <shaneprice[GGA]> Then he came back and caused problesm

[00:04] <degenerate108> not at all

[00:04] <degenerate108> this isnt new

[00:04] <@Pansy> this doesnt happen to wounded alliances

[00:04] <degenerate108> its just finally started spilling over in recent months

[00:04] <@Pansy> will this new Tri be able to stable the ship

[00:05] <@Pansy> are they all willing to put alliance before their personal agendas?

[00:05] <shaneprice[GGA]> We are attempting to do so...so far it seems to be going down a positive road.

[00:05] <@Pansy> so far it seems to be going down a positive road. - have you looked at that thread?

#01[00:06] <~mhawk> degen are you staying with gga?

[00:06] <degenerate108> for now

[00:06] <degenerate108> its a new ballgame but for the forseeable future im not going anywhere

[00:07] <DeScepter> Gentlemen, just to address Pansy's point, I am going to work my arse off to stable this ship. I always have and always will place the GGA before any personal agenda.

[00:07] <@Pansy> well DeScepter and Shane

[00:07] <@Pansy> I wish you both luck

[00:07] <DeScepter> Thanks. I appreciate it.

[00:07] <@Pansy> I am very very uncomfortable with this massive change

[00:08] <@Pansy> not one remaining figurehead is quite worrying

[00:08] <DeScepter> We have no small task before us, and your support is always helpful and appreciated.

[00:08] <degenerate108> [02:07] <@Pansy> not one remaining figurehead is quite worrying

[00:08] <degenerate108> ^ that was why i retired

[00:08] <degenerate108> in order for this tri to succeed they needed to have no ties to the past

[00:09] <degenerate108> if i sat with them they would simply be labelled the same GGA we were before the war

[00:09] <@Pansy> oh lord Degen

[00:09] <@Pansy> are you really that blind

[00:09] <degenerate108> nope i understand they're still going to be roasted

[00:10] <@Pansy> yes they are

[00:10] <degenerate108> but no one can say theres some sort of shadowy !@#$%^&* going on

[00:10] <@Pansy> of course its shadowy

[00:10] <@Pansy> one way or another

[00:10] <@Pansy> you just couped the entire curent gov

[00:10] <@Pansy> and now your current allies

[00:10] <degenerate108> not to our members and thats what we have to worry about at this point

[00:11] <@Pansy> do not know you

[00:11] <degenerate108> OWF can suck it right now i dont care if MK doesnt like us

[00:11] <degenerate108> bleeding members is bad

[00:11] <@Pansy> degen, point being Val does not know you at all now

[00:11] <degenerate108> not true

[00:11] <degenerate108> ironchef and i are still elders

[00:11] <degenerate108> active elders no less

[00:12] <@Pansy> and they are the decisssion makers?

[00:12] <@Pansy> no

[00:12] <degenerate108> i wouldn't have stepped down if i didnt trust these two could get !@#$ done though

[00:12] <@Pansy> we know know none of your higher gov

[00:12] <@Pansy> sorry shane, but after recent things with you, a relation has to be rebuilt

[00:13] <DeScepter> And you guys dont know me at all. So one has to be built there period.

[00:13] <shaneprice[GGA]> So let me get this straight...

[00:13] <shaneprice[GGA]> us kicking KFH and scotch is "O !@#$"

[00:14] <@Pansy> you removing your whole gov is o !@#$

[00:14] <shaneprice[GGA]> Kicking me is "good" but now that you are back relationships will have to be rebuilt.

#01[00:14] <~mhawk> what?

#01[00:14] <~mhawk> I just wanted to know what happened

#01[00:14] <~mhawk> because half your members are saying there was a coup

#01[00:14] <~mhawk> thats the only reason I asked

[00:14] <shaneprice[GGA]> mhawk...you said nothing wrong.

[00:14] <shaneprice[GGA]> LOL

[00:15] <@Pansy> Shane, you were removed from office correct

[00:15] <@Pansy> for the betterment of GGA

#01[00:15] <~mhawk> no shane

[00:15] <@Pansy> correct

#01[00:15] <~mhawk> I asked what was going on

[00:15] <shaneprice[GGA]> Um yes...just like the two that we are debating here.

#01[00:15] <~mhawk> when you were removed

[00:15] <@Pansy> I am wishing you luck

#01[00:15] <~mhawk> I never really got everything that happened there

[00:15] <@Pansy> but feel we have to open out a discourse again

#01[00:15] <~mhawk> all i know is we trolled each other

[00:15] <shaneprice[GGA]> Ok then...stop by and have dinner to me tomorrow night then.

[00:15] <@Pansy> as you are not the guy that got kicked

[00:15] <shaneprice[GGA]>

[00:16] <@Pansy> amirite

#01[00:16] <~mhawk> then a week later you were my MADP partner gov

[00:16] <@Pansy> what we having Shane?

[00:16] <shaneprice[GGA]> Lasagna

[00:16] <@Pansy> game on

[00:17] <shaneprice[GGA]> Always Lasagna...and purple Caek

[00:17] <degenerate108> shane was removed to further my agenda

[00:17] <&Desperado`> only if mhawk cooks

[00:17] <degenerate108> theres no point in beating this horse

[00:17] <degenerate108> i forced him out the door

[00:17] <@Pansy> degen

[00:17] <degenerate108> thats the truth

[00:17] <@Pansy> we still will need to reopen relations

[00:17] <shaneprice[GGA]> Well, he can make the caek...but...ironchef makes the lasagna

[00:17] <degenerate108> no doubt

[00:17] <degenerate108> but his removal was shadey at best

[00:19] <shaneprice[GGA]> That besides the point.

[00:19] <shaneprice[GGA]> If the good friend wants to reopen relations lets do that.

[00:19] <shaneprice[GGA]> I can serenade with the best of them.

[00:20] <@Pansy> i do feel that you seriously need to rethink your reasoning to the public for SWR

[00:21] <@Pansy> lets hope this will spell the end of the GGA tri merrygoround

[00:21] <shaneprice[GGA]> Noted, and I am speaking for myself here...I feel that our decision was in the best interests of the GGA...and I do not feel the need to justify it on the OWF. You guys are good friends...so that is different. I will come talk to you guys privately anytime

[00:23] <@Pansy> i wsh locks were still available

[00:23] <@Pansy> seriously i do

[00:24] <shaneprice[GGA]> So do I...but alas...

[00:24] <shaneprice[GGA]> No matter what statement we make at this point, there are enough spin doctors against us there to completely turn it anyway they want. No matter what we say we will be on the defensive.

I take it to query about the voting since something doesn't make sense why you would remove the highest level leaders of your alliance for taking a few hours to decide to surrender.

[mhawk]

PART TWO

Session Start: Thu May 21 03:17:52 2009

Session Ident: DeScepter

#01[03:17] <mhawk> hey

#01[03:17] <mhawk> ya there?

[03:18] <DeScepter> Oh hi

[03:18] <DeScepter> I am ready for bed, but sup?

#01[03:18] <mhawk> did swr vote on the terms?

[03:19] <DeScepter> The peace terms with Athens?

[03:19] <DeScepter> Sorry I am half asleep so a bit out of it

#01[03:21] <mhawk> yeah

[03:23] <DeScepter> Well, that all occured before I was honestly privvy to those matters, so I will have to double check to be sure. But as I understand it, he NEVER actually cast a vote, it merely passed on 2/3 approval

[03:23] <DeScepter> Ok

#01[03:23] <mhawk> um

[03:23] <DeScepter> Just checked. That is the case.

#01[03:23] <mhawk> can't you just look on your forum?

[03:23] <DeScepter> Yep

[03:23] <DeScepter> lol

#01[03:23] <mhawk> this is regarding peace with athens/

[03:24] <DeScepter> Yea, those votes occur in a Tri only area, so I couldnt see up to a few days ago. But, yea, to answer your question: NO, SWR never voted.

This flew directly in the face of my conversation with degen regarding the same matter, and completely against what shaneprice told me in the #m1a chat.

Session Start: Thu May 21 03:28:26 2009

Session Ident: degenerate108

#01[03:28] <mhawk> hey

#01[03:28] <mhawk> ya there?

[03:37] <degenerate108> for a minute

#01[03:38] <mhawk> hey

#01[03:38] <mhawk> just a quick quesiton

[03:38] <degenerate108> hiya

[03:38] <degenerate108> k

#01[03:38] <mhawk> scotch did vote for peace with athens?

#01[03:38] <mhawk> how long after the vote was posted

#01[03:38] <mhawk> did he vote?

[03:38] <degenerate108> vote had gone up at...

[03:39] <degenerate108> preemptive vote was posted at 7:30pm (we were all in our govt. channel debating it swr included)

[03:40] <degenerate108> swr left his vote off until 5:30am

[03:40] <degenerate108> and he voted nay on preemptive terms

#01[03:40] <mhawk> ah

[03:41] <degenerate108> didnt matter though it passed at 11pm when KFH finally voted and we proceeded on to our surrender terms

#01[03:41] <mhawk> and on the second vote?

[03:41] <degenerate108> aye on the second

#01[03:41] <mhawk> he vote for it pretty quick?

[03:42] <degenerate108> second time he did

[03:42] <degenerate108> but it was delayed an entire day

#01[03:42] <mhawk> it was a day late...

#01[03:42] <mhawk> hmm

#01[03:42] <mhawk> did he vote before kfh?

[03:43] <degenerate108> which wouldn't normally be a huge deal except the meganitude of the first vote meant we wouldn't get terms until the first vote was completed and we got fan and vox to agree to a cease fire

[03:43] <degenerate108> first vote no it was 7 hrs after the fact

[03:44] <degenerate108> second vote yes but thats neglectible since i voted at 9:24 and KFH cast the last vote at 9:42

[03:45] <degenerate108> swr was at 9:37

#01[03:45] <mhawk> um so you all voted like the same time

[03:45] <degenerate108> on the terms yes

[03:45] <degenerate108> but we knew what the terms were already

[03:46] <degenerate108> in order to get terms we had to pass the first vote

[03:46] <degenerate108> and thats the vote he was holding up

[03:46] <degenerate108> KFH was originally withholding his vote pending swr's

[03:46] <degenerate108> thats what pissed alot of people off

[03:47] <degenerate108> especially since that night swr stated he wasn't voting in favor of it, and than disappeared randomly in the middle of debating it

#01[03:48] <mhawk> but if I'm understanding right he held it less than 12 hours

[03:49] <degenerate108> which would have been reasonable but had we voted at 8:30 the night we got the pre-emptive terms, we would have had time to catch FAN and vox govt. as it was we got vox FAN govt. was gone by the time the vote was passed

[03:49] <degenerate108> literally athens and co. we're hinging their sigs on us fulfilling that alone

[03:49] <degenerate108> and it was stressed repeatedly

[03:50] <degenerate108> debating wise it was a non-issue we needed out of the war, swr was hinging his argument on not wanting to go back on our word to the NPO even after moo came in and explicitly told us to vote in favor and get out of war

Notice the difference about voting... So I bring this up again and suddenly Desceptor changes her story.

01[03:30] <mhawk> well i'll be honest

#01[03:30] <mhawk> the guys that were outted

#01[03:30] <mhawk> are telling me a different story

#01[03:30] <mhawk> than what shane and you told me

#01[03:31] <mhawk> so I'm a bit confused

[03:31] <DeScepter> Ok, whats up?

[03:31] <DeScepter> I'll do my best to clarify

#01[03:31] <mhawk> well scotch says he voted

#01[03:31] <mhawk> before kfh

#01[03:31] <mhawk> in regards to peace with athens

#01[03:31] <mhawk> and voted for

[03:32] <DeScepter> Wellll wtf. Lemme check. I will let you know for sure. Gimme a sec

[03:33] <DeScepter> lol

[03:33] <DeScepter> Well then

[03:33] <DeScepter> I feel like a jackass. Again.

[03:33] <DeScepter> That is the case.

After this I decided that they were foolish in their reasoning to coup their gov, and furthermore they had lied to me. I informed my MoFA to notify them of our intent to drop. During that process they begged for an ODP or simple down grade, GLU brought that back to me and I had my talk with ironchef.

[mhawk]

PART THREE

Session Start: Fri May 22 21:05:59 2009

Session Ident: ironchef

#01[21:06] <mhawk> hey

[21:12] <ironchef> hi there love

[21:12] <ironchef> so the treaty

#01[21:14] <mhawk> yeah here was the deal

[21:15] <ironchef> so did GLU talk to you?

#01[21:15] <mhawk> yeah

#01[21:15] <mhawk> my issue was a few fold

#01[21:15] <mhawk> 1) waswe had no idea the gov was being replaced

#01[21:16] <mhawk> when I went to ask

#01[21:16] <mhawk> i was originally mocked

#01[21:16] <mhawk> for asking

#01[21:16] <mhawk> 2) they lied about the situationof the removal

#01[21:16] <mhawk> kfh and swr are working with another elder to try to relaunch gga on a new forum

#01[21:16] <mhawk> I was told by shane and desceptor false info

#01[21:17] <mhawk> degen later confirmed it

#01[21:17] <mhawk> when confronted with the lie desscepter did come out

#01[21:17] <mhawk> that she had told me false info

#01[21:17] <mhawk> we don't trust them

#01[21:17] <mhawk> they lied to me

#01[21:17] <mhawk> until I had to put the pieces together

#01[21:17] <mhawk> and it sucks

[21:17] <ironchef> wow

[21:17] <ironchef> all news to me

[21:18] <ironchef> and that is not a lie

[21:18] <ironchef> I did not know about this new GGA

[21:18] <ironchef> and I did not know swr and KFH pland this

#01[21:18] <mhawk> its not just them

#01[21:18] <mhawk> they apparently have wide member support

#01[21:18] <mhawk> I've gotten like 10 queries about it in the past few hours

[21:18] <ironchef> not now they dont

[21:18] <ironchef> I posted the removeal thread out to the members

#01[21:18] <mhawk> I think they have NPo support

[21:19] <ironchef> and now they are pushing to have swr and kfh kicked

#01[21:19] <mhawk> anyways I told them this whole thing

#01[21:19] <mhawk> i have no idea

#01[21:19] <mhawk> i do know th current tri lied to me

#01[21:19] <mhawk> i dont trust them

This is when I let slip that the ex triums were going to be launching a new GGA and had asked us for support. I was done with GGA at this point and just wanted out. However ironchef talked me into waiting until their suspension was over to re evaluate. She has been a good friend so I honored that request. Little did I know the swr and kfh info drop would have drastic results.

The following day I was told this.

Session Start: Sun May 24 22:52:12 2009

Session Ident: ironchef

[22:52] Session Ident: ironchef (Coldfront, mhawk)

[22:52] <ironchef> degenerate108 just quit the game

#01[22:52] <mhawk> no

#01[22:52] <mhawk> :/

#01[22:52] <mhawk> why

[22:52] <ironchef> I'm being removed form the GGA and swr and kfh are back in power

[22:53] <ironchef> because you and the rest if our allies are backing them in their coup

[22:53] <ironchef> or so they old degen

#01[22:53] <mhawk> what

#01[22:53] <mhawk> I told you about their coup

[22:53] <ironchef> and NPO said to give them what they want our they will cancle on us

[22:53] <ironchef> "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. "

[22:53] <ironchef> so the same Gov is back in power

[22:54] <ironchef> Sog will be coming back with all the members that left with her and are siting in her fake alliance

[22:54] <ironchef> and they can have the GGA

#01[22:54] <mhawk> this is stupid

[22:55] <ironchef> sure they can

[22:55] <ironchef> they said the have 50% of the members and a new forum

[22:55] <ironchef> and the suport of NPO

[22:56] <ironchef> and they have made a new forum

[22:56] <ironchef> so there you have it

#01[23:00] <mhawk> 50%

#01[23:00] <mhawk> i dont think they even have a forum

[23:02] <ironchef> well degen just quit

[23:02] <ironchef> so lets hope they do

[23:02] <ironchef> he no longer has a nation

[23:02] <ironchef> its gine

[23:02] <ironchef> *gone

[23:02] <ironchef> he is gone

#01[23:03] <mhawk> you were told to leave?

[23:03] <ironchef> part of their terms

[23:03] <ironchef> that Moo said to give them

[23:04] <ironchef> [20:37] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> Let me relist the terms for DeScepter

[23:04] <ironchef> [20:37] <&scotchwithrocks[GGA]away> most allies know why

[23:04] <ironchef> [20:37] <&scotchwithrocks[GGA]away> valhalla does not

[23:04] <ironchef> [20:37] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> If you all will hesitate till I finish the list that'd be great

[23:04] <ironchef> [20:37] <&DeScepter> I'm sorry I will be lurking for a bit here

[23:04] <ironchef> [20:37] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> So then It can all be subsequent

[23:04] <ironchef> [20:37] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> Its okay DeScepter

[23:04] <ironchef> [20:37] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> DeScepter - Triumvir

[23:04] <ironchef> [20:37] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> KungFuHamster - Triumvir

[23:04] <ironchef> [20:38] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> Shaneprice - (acting) Triumvir

[23:05] <ironchef> [20:38] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> Degenerate108 - Elder, free to be a CoD player as he chooses

[23:05] <ironchef> [20:38] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> Manfred - Regent should he accept

[23:05] <ironchef> [20:38] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> Scotchwithrocks - Elder, Acting MoDI should Manfred assume the role of Regent

[23:05] <ironchef> [20:38] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> Ironchef - Removed from the Grand Global Alliance

[23:05] <ironchef> [20:39] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> A statement on the OWF as well as the GGA Forums which will publically display what took place and the manner in which actions were taken and such

[23:05] <ironchef> [20:39] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> And thats everything I think. Right Scotch?

[23:05] <ironchef> [20:39] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> Shaneprice - Elder (acting) Triumvir : to be more specific

[23:05] <ironchef> [20:39] <&scotchwithrocks[GGA]away> and any GGA member that left in the past week mat be reinstated at his/her former rank if they choose to

[23:05] <ironchef> those are the terms

[23:05] <ironchef> they get those and they all live happy ever after or NPo will cancle on GGA

[23:06] <ironchef> becauase we cant all work together

[23:06] <ironchef> $%&@ that this Gov was killing the alliance

[23:06] <ironchef> and it had not grown in the 6 moths they had it

#01[23:06] <mhawk> ok im canceling now

I had enough at this point. I gave them a chance to stabilize and there was another coup. However I decided to go and let them explain what had happened.

Session Start: Sun May 24 23:38:10 2009

Session Ident: DeScepter

#01[23:38] <mhawk> hello

[23:38] <DeScepter> Hi!

#01[23:38] <mhawk> so whats up with gga

#01[23:38] <mhawk> is there a new leadership chane?

[23:39] <DeScepter> Nope

[23:39] <DeScepter> As it stands, things are the same in GGA.

This seems pretty odd given my conversation with ironchef. I was shocked that the GGA would be lying to me AGAIN. I went to ironchef and said the following.

[mhawk]

PART FOUR

#01[23:39] <mhawk> hey

#01[23:39] <mhawk> wtf

#01[23:39] <mhawk> [23:38] <mhawk> hello

#01[23:39] <mhawk> [23:38] <DeScepter> Hi!

#01[23:39] <mhawk> [23:38] <mhawk> so whats up with gga

#01[23:39] <mhawk> [23:38] <mhawk> is there a new leadership chane?

#01[23:39] <mhawk> [23:39] <DeScepter> Nope

[23:40] <ironchef> yes there is

#01[23:40] <mhawk> $%&@ sake

#01[23:40] <mhawk> ironchef that is why i wanted to cancel

[23:40] <ironchef> degen has deleted his nation

#01[23:40] <mhawk> because she lies

ironchef has some words with Descepter.

[23:51] <ironchef> [23:40] <ironchef> dont lie to Mhawk

[23:51] <ironchef> [23:40] <ironchef> he dose not like it much

[23:51] <ironchef> [23:41] <ironchef> I told him about kfh and swr

[23:51] <ironchef> [23:41] <ironchef> I also told him degen has deleted

[23:51] <ironchef> [23:41] <ironchef> so be up fromt with him

[23:51] <ironchef> [23:41] <DeScepter> I havent. I queryed me and asked if there was a leadership change and there hasnt been yet

[23:51] <ironchef> [23:41] <ironchef> lol

[23:51] <ironchef> [23:41] <ironchef> but there will be

[23:51] <ironchef> [23:41] <ironchef> you have lost the two Elders your allies trusted

[23:51] <ironchef> [23:42] <ironchef> so dont hold that back from him

[23:51] <ironchef> [23:45] <DeScepter> Ok

[23:51] <ironchef> [23:45] <DeScepter> Thanks ironchef

Descepter then changes her mind after knowing I already knew and informs me the following.

[23:41] <DeScepter> Oh !@#$

[23:41] <DeScepter> I guess I did forget something

[23:42] <DeScepter> degenerate108 deleteed

#01[23:42] <mhawk> was ironchef removed?

[23:42] <DeScepter> And to be forward with you, there wil VERY likely be a leadership change soon

[23:42] <DeScepter> No she hasnt been but she just asked me if she could go

Again..... more BS

[23:05] <ironchef> [20:38] <&KungFuHamster[GGA]> Ironchef - Removed from the Grand Global Alliance

So in response to yet ANOTHER deception my reply.

#01[23:43] <mhawk> Okay we're cancelling

#01[23:43] <mhawk> I hope you guys get stuff sorted out

[23:43] <DeScepter> Alright. To be honest, I would if I were you too

#01[23:43] <mhawk> i wish we had got honest answers

[23:43] <DeScepter> GGA simply cannot make a good ally right now

[23:43] <DeScepter> Dont drag yourself down with us

#01[23:43] <mhawk> lol we're in full nuclear anarchy with 17 alliance attacking us on 1

#01[23:44] <mhawk> drag ourselves down

#01[23:44] <mhawk>

#01[23:44] <mhawk> lol

[23:44] <DeScepter> I am new to all of this and I am not 100% sure when I am crossing the line between "honesty" and trying to protect the internal stuff

[23:44] <DeScepter> So I dont mean to lie

[23:44] <DeScepter> I just suck

Session Time: Mon May 25 00:00:03 2009

Now this is where I was notified of the supposed Athens attack. During this convo with Moo, we were all in skype, so the transfer of info was pretty quick.

01[23:59] <mhawk> [23:51] <ironchef> [23:40] <ironchef> dont lie to Mhawk

#01[23:59] <mhawk> [23:51] <ironchef> [23:40] <ironchef> he dose not like it much

#01[23:59] <mhawk> hahah

#01[23:59] <mhawk> yeah you know me

#01[23:59] <mhawk> she lies its over

#01[23:59] <mhawk> grr

Session Time: Mon May 25 00:00:03 2009

[00:02] <ironchef> yep

#01[00:02] <mhawk> this wasnt about you ic

#01[00:02] <mhawk> my wanting to cancel

#01[00:02] <mhawk> was the new guys

#01[00:02] <mhawk> lying to me

[00:02] <ironchef> <3u2

#01[00:02] <mhawk> yo know how I feel about that

#01[00:02] <mhawk> and she did it here again

#01[00:02] <mhawk> :/

#01[00:03] <mhawk>

#01[00:03] <mhawk> we are in epic last stand

[00:03] <ironchef> Athers is goign to pull terms

[00:03] <ironchef> as they just got broke

[00:03] <ironchef> No gov was to leave the GGA

Session Close: Mon May 25 02:52:33 2009

So I immediately told moo that something was up in skype and sent the following skype query to him.

[12:03:53 AM] Mhawk says: athens is pulling terms

[12:04:00 AM] Mhawk says: gga violated terms

[12:04:27 AM] Mhawk says: there was to be no gov change

I later was told by moo that my information had been faulty, this was about 20 mins after I told him. Later in the evening I went to londo to check what the rumors were or where they originated.

With this I'm done. I'm sick of GGA. We have defended them over and over, each time during ridiculous coups, blatant lies. Perhaps it was laziness that made me turn a blind eye, or not wanting to be a bad guy, but there is zero doubt in my mind now we at least made the right call in these final days.

I'm so sick of GGA drama.

[WarriorConcept]

So GGA's new govt are just as dim as the last.

Well, there's a surprise.

[LetsHunt]

So when is the next GGA post coming

[Sileath]

Ironchef told mhawk who told Moo who told GGA.

Who told Ironchef? That's right - Moo.

Bravo, NPO.

[WarriorConcept]

Ironchef told mhawk who told Moo who told GGA.

Who told Ironchef? That's right - Moo.

Bravo, NPO.

Ironchef made it up originally, and all evidence thus far and the laws of reality and time prove that.

[Unko Kalaikz]

Of all parties I would trust Ironchef in this

Edited May 26, 2009 by Count da Silva

[ironchef]

Session Time: Mon May 25 00:00:00 2009

[00:04] <@Moo-Cows> you guys are $%&@ed

[00:04] <@Moo-Cows> you can't leave

09[00:04] <&ironchef> I'm not

[00:04] <@Moo-Cows> and you need t o get them back

[00:04] <@Moo-Cows> ASAP

And my post in query with Mhamk after we had been told “you guys are $%&@ed” by Moo

[00:03] <mhawk> go tpf

[00:03] <mhawk>

[00:03] <mhawk> we are in epic last stand

09[00:04] <ironchef> Athers is goign to pull terms

09[00:04] <ironchef> as they just got broke

09[00:04] <ironchef> No gov was to leave the GGA

[Chickenzilla]

So the GGA has multiple coups within the week, the alliance tries to split itself in half. In a desperate attempt to save her alliance, Ironchef decides to...lie to mhawk so he can lie to moo in hopes to gain public support so there looks like is a legitamate reason to cancel all of their treaties with the NPO? This sounds like a bad idea all around.

Edit: I still don't know who or what to believe. Is this all spin, or is it truth? I really wish that this would all go away and we could pretend that it never happened because now my head really hurts.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Chickenzilla

[TehChron]

Seems that once again, GGA has displayed it's true colors as one of the most awful, cowardly backstabbers in the game.

Good show.

Have fun with Athens, folks.

[bigwoody]

*ding*

I see it now.

So, Moo reads the terms literally, and freaks to Ironchef that its a terms violation and undo whatever was done. Ironchef takes that back around, and the telephone game affect turns it into "Athens is attacking".

I don't see any malice there, HOWEVER.

I hate GGA drama.

Here, here!

EDIT: I seem to recall the coup-ers coming to me asking for support for their new gov without breaking the details of the change. I didn't commit one way or another, so if my alliance was listed as a coup/whatever supporter without my knowledge...

Edited May 26, 2009 by bigwoody

[WarriorConcept]

And my post in query with Mhamk after we had been told “you guys are $%&@ed” by Moo

You realize going by the timestamps, Moo still told you after mhawk told him?

Edit: Bigwoody I'd agree with you if Moo hadn't already verified that he only talked to ironchef after mhawk told him about it and not at all before.

Edited May 26, 2009 by WarriorConcept

[Kylliah]

Wow... thank you, mhawk, for shining some light on this. It looks like it really was just one huge misunderstanding. Yeesh. Getting all of us riled up over nothing.

[bigwoody]

Edit: Bigwoody I'd agree with you if Moo hadn't already verified that he only talked to ironchef after mhawk told him about it and not at all before.

*insert exploding head guy here*

I don't really know a damn thing, I'm guessing with you.

Whatever, I hate GGA drama.

[Sal Paradise]

So GGA's new govt are just as dim as the last.

Well, there's a surprise.

You couldn't have possibly read all that in a minute.

As much as I disagree with the thread title (I love GGA drama), I don't love the drama enough to read that huge log dump*. The much anticipated response to the Athens/GGA thread has failed to entertain me. I hope you're all happy.

*might I remind you all, log dumps were an EZI-able offense under the ancien regime.

[George the Great]

[00:03] <mhawk> we are in epic last stand

[00:03] <ironchef> Athers is goign to pull terms

[00:03] <ironchef> as they just got broke

[00:03] <ironchef> No gov was to leave the GGA

Session Close: Mon May 25 02:52:33 2009

+

[12:03:53 AM] Mhawk says: athens is pulling terms

[12:04:00 AM] Mhawk says: gga violated terms

[12:04:27 AM] Mhawk says: there was to be no gov change

=

Leaving out important facts. Facts like that was IronChef's opinion, which it pretty clearly was.

Also, why did you leave out the rest of the Moo conversation, some context would be nice, or would it be?

So in hindsight, mhawk, Moo and GGA acted rashly. mhawk neglects to inform that this is just IronChef's opinion and back his information up with facts that Athens was going to go to war with them. Moo takes it and runs with it hoping they just got GGA back into the war. GGA goes to back up the theory with facts and finds out they don't hold any water.

Did Moo know that IronChef was the source? Did you purposefully leave that part out, mhawk, because that sure explains why you posted so little of your conversation with him.

If not then this looks like a big, stupid mistake.

[George the Great]

And my post in query with Mhamk after we had been told “you guys are $%&@ed” by Moo

Oh wait, the plot thickens!

[WarriorConcept]

*insert exploding head guy here*

I don't really know a damn thing, I'm guessing with you.

Whatever, I hate GGA drama.

I used to enjoy it now it's just giving me a headache

[ironchef]

*ding*

I see it now.

So, Moo reads the terms literally, and freaks to Ironchef that its a terms violation and undo whatever was done. Ironchef takes that back around, and the telephone game affect turns it into "Athens is attacking".

I don't see any malice there, HOWEVER.

w00t! give this man a cookie

Like I said I did not tell Mhawk a thing about Athens and terms till Moo came in telling us we are $%&@d and to get back in the GGA.

[mhawk]

+

=

Leaving out important facts. Facts like that was IronChef's opinion, which it pretty clearly was.

Also, why did you leave out the rest of the Moo conversation, some context would be nice, or would it be?

So in hindsight, mhawk, Moo and GGA acted rashly. mhawk neglects to inform that this is just IronChef's opinion and back his information up with facts that Athens was going to go to war with them. Moo takes it and runs with it hoping they just got GGA back into the war. GGA goes to back up the theory with facts and finds out they don't hold any water.

Did Moo know that IronChef was the source? Did you purposefully leave that part out, mhawk, because that sure explains why you posted so little of your conversation with him.

If not then this looks like a big, stupid mistake.

I told moo that ironchef was the source, there was little said because we were in a skype call and playing scrabble. The reason it was brought to query was because it was mixed company with several alliances of various positions, I believe some polar and val members can verify this.

[TehChron]

+

=

Leaving out important facts. Facts like that was IronChef's opinion, which it pretty clearly was.

Also, why did you leave out the rest of the Moo conversation, some context would be nice, or would it be?

So in hindsight, mhawk, Moo and GGA acted rashly. mhawk neglects to inform that this is just IronChef's opinion and back his information up with facts that Athens was going to go to war with them. Moo takes it and runs with it hoping they just got GGA back into the war. GGA goes to back up the theory with facts and finds out they don't hold any water.

Did Moo know that IronChef was the source? Did you purposefully leave that part out, mhawk, because that sure explains why you posted so little of your conversation with him.

If not then this looks like a big, stupid mistake.

The Mistake's was Athens for letting this Albatross get hung around their neck.

GGA was more than happy to promote it as some kind of evil manipulation, people. Please remember who took it as a plea for attention to Athens to begin with.

[Master Hakai]

This reminds me of the circus. It's been so long since I was last at a circus. How precious

[The Pansy]

I told moo that ironchef was the source, there was little said because we were in a skype call and playing scrabble. The reason it was brought to query was because it was mixed company with several alliances of various positions, I believe some polar and val members can verify this.

I can verify Mhawk said this, as at the time I was giving Mary a good kicking at Scrabble.