New Pacific Order Reps Race

[Echoic]

It seems clear that we've reached an impasse. (at least to most thinking people) The general Karma feeling is that NPO is still too strong to be let off the hook but our ability to cut them down is dwindling because of peace mode and their sheer numbers. Instead of demanding something they will not do, appeal to their members and give them a way out? Some of their nations have melted away but the surrender rate is low, I think because many members are simply afraid to leave, during a war doubly so. Why not offer them a haven, bring them to the other side and show them how much better it is?

[Mussolandia]

At one point, the NPO was even so bold as to proudly flaunt their status as the "bully" alliance (i.e. The sig picture that read "keeping the little man down since [whenever]"). CN has chafed against their tyranny many times and failed. They have shown themselves to be double-standard, hypocritical cowards. In my opinion, NPO deserves no mercy. They deserve no peace. In my opinion they should be hunted down and blasted to the oblivion that has long awaited them.

This is our Pelennor Field, our Battle of Endor, our Somme. Death to the NPO.

If you intended to make your last line epic, it failed miserably. Usually putting together fictional and real events makes something look nerdy, not inspirational.

The notion the NPO and its allies are a threat to its attackers or their new hegemony is ridiculous. The NPO shall never again the level of power it enjoyed before the conflict. They have been defeated for good.

At this point, the leaders of Karma should consider that the continuation war will only create divisions within this coalition and within the alliances themselves. There will inevitably be a number of members that will call for peace for the NPO once it becomes evident that the objectives of the war have been fully accomplished. I am quite confident that the members of Karma that were once close allies of the NPO will find their situation untenable in the face of those who have literally been fighting the alliance their entire lives. The ones who pushed for the draconian terms being offered now to the NPO (this will eventually be known) will later be held responsible of violating the original intent of the coalition by the fickle peanut gallery.

It is only a matter of whether thirst for revenge overshadows other, more practical reasons to end the war.

[Näktergal]

If you intended to make your last line epic, it failed miserably. Usually putting together fictional and real events makes something look nerdy, not inspirational.

This is Cyber Nations. The fact that we're all sitting around discussing the political and military doings of fictional nations makes pretty much every post on these forums nerdy.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, per se, but let's keep our perspective here.

The notion the NPO and its allies are a threat to its attackers or their new hegemony is ridiculous. The NPO shall never again the level of power it enjoyed before the conflict. They have been defeated for good.

To be fair, a lot of people were saying the same thing back in August of 2006 as well.

So, if people are still afraid that the NPO will somehow manage to bounce back from this war, especially since a large percentage of their larger nations are currently in Peace Mode, and may have the resources to help speed reconstruction, it's hard to fault them for that belief.

Is the fear justified? Will the NPO be able to recover like it did last time, or is this truly the death knell for their domination of the game? It's really not that clear at this point - a case could be made for things going either way. Especially if the NPO manages to salvage a few of its previous friendships and keep a few of their older allies (and they almost certain will - not EVERYONE turned on them this time around... something they're sure to remember).

At this point, the leaders of Karma should consider that the continuation war will only create divisions within this coalition and within the alliances themselves. There will inevitably be a number of members that will call for peace for the NPO once it becomes evident that the objectives of the war have been fully accomplished.

I'd be willing to bet that's precisely what the NPO is counting on. After all, that's basically what happened during the first Great War - the CoaLUEtion started to fall apart as those who thought the Orders had suffered enough and would never recover slowly started declaring peace, forcing the alliances who wanted to keep the war going until the Orders were completely destroyed to either declare peace as well or be left in a fight with fewer and fewer allies.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen in this case... as time passes, and the NPO manages to get more and more nations into Peace Mode (of possibly even sending them off into exile under other AAs), the various alliances attacking them will either start to grow bored, or decide the NPO has suffered enough, or otherwise begin to back off the pressure. The dissolution of Karma as a unified front means that, once the big guns start to pull out, the smaller fish are either going to have to stand down as well, or risk their own destruction once the NPO is able to drag itself back to its feet.

Of course, boredom is a relative thing... and whether that sort of loss of interest kicks in after a few more weeks, a few more months, or a few more years is going to decide whether the strategy of trying to ride out the storm is something the NPO can afford. If they outlast the enemy, but the war ends with the NPO reduced to 4m NS and ~200 members, how viable are they going to be?

[Comrade Korey]

Well people are just plain stupid if they're discussing terms right now. I doubt that NPO ever gave an opponent peace until at the very least that alliance lost it's sanction and one of their allies gained it. If alliances start doing what you claim they did in GWI (peacing out one by one) then yes, NPO will likely rise back to the top, because to be honest their leadership is simply smarter than most of yours.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Comrade Korey

[ModusOperandi]

NPO should not and will not pay these reparations. You guys are delusional to think this farse can stand long.

Weren't you a long-time member of the NPO?

Your farce with FAN went two years man; enjoy the show.

[ModusOperandi]

We have approached at least two; they made it abundantly clear they weren't interested, and that no one in Karma was interested.

How many times did FAN approach you? You reap what you sow.

[TrotskysRevenge]

...we were told there would be talks last night. Getting 18 alliances together is difficult.

Sorry man, but that's crap.

Sorry man, but it's not.

We were told that they might have terms last night if they could get agreement by all alliances involved. When one has terms, that implies talks in my mind.

Edited June 2, 2009 by TrotskysRevenge

[Shokkou]

If you intended to make your last line epic, it failed miserably. Usually putting together fictional and real events makes something look nerdy, not inspirational.

The notion the NPO and its allies are a threat to its attackers or their new hegemony is ridiculous. The NPO shall never again the level of power it enjoyed before the conflict. They have been defeated for good.

At this point, the leaders of Karma should consider that the continuation war will only create divisions within this coalition and within the alliances themselves. There will inevitably be a number of members that will call for peace for the NPO once it becomes evident that the objectives of the war have been fully accomplished. I am quite confident that the members of Karma that were once close allies of the NPO will find their situation untenable in the face of those who have literally been fighting the alliance their entire lives. The ones who pushed for the draconian terms being offered now to the NPO (this will eventually be known) will later be held responsible of violating the original intent of the coalition by the fickle peanut gallery.

It is only a matter of whether thirst for revenge overshadows other, more practical reasons to end the war.

Let's see, no that was not my intent. I have no one to try to inspire, and no interest in making myself sound epic. I do; however, find it amusing that you throw out the term nerdy as an insult, when you are the ones taking the game humorously serious.

The NPO can still rebuild (again), especially when looking up their alliance yields 5+ pages of peace mode nations of millions of NS. Which brings me to my next point. A game should be amusing, yes? What would be most amusing at this point, given the past machinations within the context of the game, would be to watch the utter annihilation of an alliance which has dominated the cyberworld almost since its inception. The alliance which has built itself upon the concept of taking the game too seriously. Throw out the pseudo-political crap that has stagnated CN and show that it is capable now of that which it has proven incapable in the past. Try a new approach and risk things on a massive scale. Do things for the fun of it, and for the fun of seeing the result, rather than out of fear of loss (which, in this fake world, is ultimately meaningless). Who knows? Maybe what comes of the chaos of internal strife (in Karma, the one that almost everyone is predicting) will be better than promoting the status quo. Even if it isn't, it'll at least be an interesting change.

EDIT: I would like to point out one thing. Though I may not like Trotsky's style with the NPO, I think one thing people should take note of is this: He isn't hiding in peace mode.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Wraith7153

[ModusOperandi]

Sorry man, but that's crap.

Sorry man, but it's not.

We were told that they might have terms last night if they could get agreement by all alliances involved. When one has terms, that implies talks in my mind.

Emperor,

With all due respect for what you have accomplished on Bob, little sympathy will be garnered for your order in spite of industrialized effort to make it so; the fact is, you and your friends have peeved off a whole lot of people. Now, gathering you're decision to forbid GATO peace-mode and choice to use it yourselves, you'll be very fortunate that a viceroy isn't installed over your dominion much akin to your favorite tactic.

Just take your licks like a man and give up this foolish charade.

[Tromp]

Sorry man, but it's not.

We were told that they might have terms last night if they could get agreement by all alliances involved. When one has terms, that implies talks in my mind.

Yes, we might have terms, we would come back to you (or in this case Vektorzero) so we could talk when we had terms. So you agree with me, it's crap what you said.

[...]

[Roadie]

Yes, we might have terms, we would come back to you (or in this case Vektorzero) so we could talk when we had terms. So you agree with me, it's crap what you said.

So you're saying NPO asked for terms, but was not given them, correct?

[Lord Brendan]

If you intended to make your last line epic, it failed miserably. Usually putting together fictional and real events makes something look nerdy, not inspirational.

Nerdy? Probably. But all three are good analogies, in different ways.

The Battle of Pelennor Fields was a result of Sauron seeing a threat that wasn't really there. He was afraid of someone using the Ring against him (see quote in signature), so he launched his attack on Minas Tirith before it was fully prepared, leading to his eventual downfall. If Sauron had spent all his energy protecting Mordor, destroying the Ring would have been impossible. The analogy here is pretty direct: in seeing a threat to their power, NPO moved to destroy them, when in actuality Karma would probably never have attacked if NPO didn't initiate war. If NPO had worked at maintaining relations with their allies, they could easily have prevented this defeat.[/nerd]

I'm too lazy to write up the other two but they're good analogies as well. Kudos to Wraith, analogies often suck here on Planet Bob.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Lord Brendan

[TigerBaby]

I'm new to cybernations, a little over a couple of months. So can perhaps bring an unbiased, unaffected opinion to all of this. In my new eyes this NPO are rapidly becoming a joke, a real laughing stock. I detect a touch of the ludicrous in everything they do.

First they start a war then refuse in huge numbers refuse to fight it and in the main refuse to even talk about it? Then as the war rages, and their allies are crushed, huge numbers of them still refuse to take part in a conflict they got those allies into? And to top it all off play a ridiculous numbers game that I can only think is part of some charade to pretend to themselves or others that this isn't really happening by continuing to mass recruit predominately brand new nations who haven't a clue what is going on and who are likely heading for no future in the game as anything but a number to keep up their score and cannon fodder. Probably to soon leave the game in disillusionment. And this farce is alongside the manic egotistical behaviour they have displayed long before I ever heard of cybernations or NPO. All of which I have only learned of from browsing these forums

I find it all truly pathetic and i'm extremely glad I didn't have the misfortune to unwittingly fall into this joke of an alliance when first creating my nation and looking at alliances.

[Sir Paul]

With all due respect for what you have accomplished on Bob, little sympathy will be garnered for your order in spite of industrialized effort to make it so;

<snip>

Just take your licks like a man and give up this foolish charade.

Such vitriol from the Red Cross; I'm disappointed. As a humanitarian organization (as indicated by your signature) aren't you supposed to be giving chocolate to soldiers and staying neutral in conflicts or something? My troops on the front have yet to receive a single aid package.

EDIT: I would like to point out one thing. Though I may not like Trotsky's style with the NPO, I think one thing people should take note of is this: He isn't hiding in peace mode.

The home nation of the Order’s Emperor is traditionally the most nuked nation in the game. Ivan, Dilber and Revenge are all distinguished war veterans and the populations of their nations live mostly underground due to rogue and alliance-sponsored nuclear attacks.

[Blacky]

Such vitriol from the Red Cross; I'm disappointed. As a humanitarian organization (as indicated by your signature) aren't you supposed to be giving chocolate to soldiers and staying neutral in conflicts or something? My troops on the front have yet to receive a single aid package.

Actually humanitarian aid groups and human rights organisations tend to do the complete opposite. They're usually the most in tune with human suffering, taking their perspective the demise of the New Pacific Order would be a good thing. The closest thing to a humanitarian we've seen would probably be Walford, so in these situations I ask my self WWWW or What Would Walford Write?

The home nation of the Order’s Emperor is traditionally the most nuked nation in the game. Ivan, Dilber and Revenge are all distinguished war veterans and the populations of their nations live mostly underground due to rogue and alliance-sponsored nuclear attacks.

The populations of their alliance too it would seem.

[Comrade Korey]

I'm new to cybernations, a little over a couple of months. So can perhaps bring an unbiased, unaffected opinion to all of this. In my new eyes this NPO are rapidly becoming a joke, a real laughing stock. I detect a touch of the ludicrous in everything they do.

First they start a war then refuse in huge numbers refuse to fight it and in the main refuse to even talk about it? Then as the war rages, and their allies are crushed, huge numbers of them still refuse to take part in a conflict they got those allies into? And to top it all off play a ridiculous numbers game that I can only think is part of some charade to pretend to themselves or others that this isn't really happening by continuing to mass recruit predominately brand new nations who haven't a clue what is going on and who are likely heading for no future in the game as anything but a number to keep up their score and cannon fodder. Probably to soon leave the game in disillusionment. And this farce is alongside the manic egotistical behaviour they have displayed long before I ever heard of cybernations or NPO. All of which I have only learned of from browsing these forums

I find it all truly pathetic and i'm extremely glad I didn't have the misfortune to unwittingly fall into this joke of an alliance when first creating my nation and looking at alliances.

Can we be friends?

[ModusOperandi]

Such vitriol from the Red Cross; I'm disappointed. As a humanitarian organization (as indicated by your signature) aren't you supposed to be giving chocolate to soldiers and staying neutral in conflicts or something? My troops on the front have yet to receive a single aid package.

As disappointed as we, Red Nations, which have had the belovred sanctity of our sphere spoiled by carnage which you, our self-appointed "guardians" have wrought through your own actions?

I see none of our actions to be worthy of your vaunted judgment; you have given lip-service to the tenets of being genuine characters whilst power-broking your way to the gallows constructed by masses.

Our sovereignty is our own; that includes such necessary actions that are propagated by our Disaster Assistance Response Teams. Pacifica does not meet our requirements; it is simply not up to our standards due to its aggressive initiation of this conflict.

In short, become unaffiliated and than we'll talk; you know where the link is.

[Roadie]

Nerdy? Probably. But all three are good analogies, in different ways.

The Battle of Pelennor Fields was a result of Sauron seeing a threat that wasn't really there. He was afraid of someone using the Ring against him (see quote in signature), so he launched his attack on Minas Tirith before it was fully prepared, leading to his eventual downfall. If Sauron had spent all his energy protecting Mordor, destroying the Ring would have been impossible. The analogy here is pretty direct: in seeing a threat to their power, NPO moved to destroy them, when in actuality Karma would probably never have attacked if NPO didn't initiate war. If NPO had worked at maintaining relations with their allies, they could easily have prevented this defeat.[/nerd]

I'm too lazy to write up the other two but they're good analogies as well. Kudos to Wraith, analogies often suck here on Planet Bob.

So you're saying they wouldn't have tried to destroy the ring if Sauron hadn't attack at Minas Tirith? I'm trying to clatify because I'm not sure I get the anology.

[Scarlet Ellen Red]

New Pacific Order Reps Race

Day 8

Old Total

1042 Nation Violations

3.126 Billion

104,200 Tech

+14 days of terms

Today's Add-on's

133 Nations Violated

399 Million

13,300 Tech

+ 2 days of terms

Total so Far

1175 Nation Violations

3.525 Billion

117,500 Tech

+16 days of terms

Comments:

Mmm... i have even got 4 posts from Moo-Cows... i guess this means my thread has reached its peak of preformance.

[Disclaimer: Now this topic isn't a debate about those terms, as the title says, I made this to inform everyone what those terms would be, if added up. I am simply informing you what they are, so please don't write mis-informing reports. I am not here to debate how good/bad/ok/not-ok the terms are. I am just simply writing what they would be. So please don't throw tons of flames out there. Pwease ]

[shahenshah]

So all this time you guys were saying 'NPO come out of peace mode, we got terms for you'

and now 'We 'might' have terms'. Good thing NPO didn't up out of peace mode else all the drama would have ended! So much for counting on 'personal opinions'. Just an observation from someone who has no love for all involved parties in the conflict on agenda.

You guys just gave them another reason to stay put..I get a feeling that the peace mode drama is being being intentionally lengthened by one side to nail the war nations to nothing and later nail the peace mode nations to nothing..and then provide personal guarantees on terms that would ensure NPO somehow survives.

Edited June 3, 2009 by shahenshah

[Alterego]

Total so Far

1175 Nation Violations

3.525 Billion

117,500 Tech

+16 days of terms

And this just the additional punishment for sitting in peace mode. I wonder what the total will be when you include the reps for the war, it has to be over $10billion and 400k tech.

[Teriethien]

And this just the additional punishment for sitting in peace mode. I wonder what the total will be when you include the reps for the war, it has to be over $10billion and 400k tech.

But at the moment, for all we know the base terms could have been a 1 soldier reparation. Granted, not likely

[Denial]

And this just the additional punishment for sitting in peace mode. I wonder what the total will be when you include the reps for the war, it has to be over $10billion and 400k tech.

Is this another one of those glorious predictions of yours, like when you said BAPS wouldn't be allowed to surrender and you would be EZI'd?

[Roadie]

Is this another one of those glorious predictions of yours, like when you said BAPS wouldn't be allowed to surrender and you would be EZI'd?

I think all a person could do is predict at this point, so I'd say it's a good guess that it's a prediction.

[shahenshah]

Is this another one of those glorious predictions of yours, like when you said BAPS wouldn't be allowed to surrender and you would be EZI'd?

You can stop the predictions anytime you want.

Given the flip flops and pre-terms...I think its natural for him to assume Reps on the harsher side as per your own words and actions.