The Moldavi Doctrine

[hizzy]

I for one am shocked that this has reached 23 pages.

This is like announcing that you will collect taxes at some point in the next 20 days. Whatever decisions NSO was going to make in the future they would have made with or without this doctrine, and anybody who would have pouted about it is still going to do so whether or not NSO has a doctrine, and anybody who doesn't give a !@#$ will give even less of a !@#$ when it happens.

[WarriorConcept]

Why are people still puzzling over this? If you actually read it, there are folks who hit the nail on the head a while ago...

[15:21] <WarriorConcept> Doppelganger: I underestimated how retarded CN is

[15:21] <WarriorConcept> 23 pages, really?

[15:31] <Doppelganger> lol

[15:31] <Doppelganger> never underestimate it, my good man

[hizzy]

We are heroes.

I was a little blurry eyed when I read this. I thought you said you're herpes. That would have been good times.

[Ragashingo]

Twenty-three pages arguing about a doctrine that means absolutely nothing? Ridiculous!

This piece of paper will not stop alliances from using their power to try and prevent what they see as bandwaggoning. Action, calling a preventer alliance's bluff, is what is really needed to correct CN's backwards view of treaties. Doctrines will not get the job done.

[Hymenbreach]

I for one am shocked that this has reached 23 pages.

This is like announcing that you will collect taxes at some point in the next 20 days. Whatever decisions NSO was going to make in the future they would have made with or without this doctrine, and anybody who would have pouted about it is still going to do so whether or not NSO has a doctrine, and anybody who doesn't give a !@#$ will give even less of a !@#$ when it happens.

Sometimes we like to check stuff before the hero worship begins. Just to be sure. It's a free service. I also cut keys.

[heggo]

Twenty-three pages arguing about a doctrine that means absolutely nothing? Ridiculous!

This piece of paper will not stop alliances from using their power to try and prevent what they see as bandwaggoning. Action, calling a preventer alliance's bluff, is what is really needed to correct CN's backwards view of treaties. Doctrines will not get the job done.

Ahh, but it is words that lay the foundations for actions. Do not underestimate their power.

[A Soviet Attack]

If it were so pointless, this thread would not have accumulated 20 pages of praise and complaints.

Perhaps it would not be necessary for a simple concept as this to be made into a "doctrine" if a certain majority didn't build a culture based on conformity and bureaucracy.

Furthermore, I haven't seen anything particularly revolutionary coming out of the "Seaworthy Liberian Cardboard Boxes" alliance, comrade.

I don't think I ever claimed that my alliance was revolutionary in any way. Just saying, NSO isn't either.

[Mixoux]

I'm just waiting now for an alliance to create an anti-bandwagoning doctrine. That should be the one to cause curiosity in the masses, not the opposite.

[Tron Paul]

An ODP with the world that no one signs, strange.

[Duncan King]

Congratulations, NSO! You are so revolutionary that you have actually set the Planet back a couple years. I will laugh the day you use this to interfere in something that is not your business and get smoked because of it. Not only have you stated that you will bandwagon on every conflict that exists, you've also stated that you will leak intel when ever you feel like it. There is a reason that things are done the way they are. When an alliance that you have no tie to gets into a conflict with another alliance that you also have no tie to, why is it your business at all to interfere? It seems to me that NSO has become CN's nosy neighbor because you love to gossip and stick your nose into anything.

I eagerly await the announcement by the NSO that all nations, no matter whether they're actually in NSO, can claim the protection of NSO. Then you will truly have set the world back to a state of nature where there are no alliances, just nations. But make no mistake, you, Ivan Moldavi, are no John Lennon ("Imagine there's no alliances..."). I'm not sure where this libertarian streak came from (or maybe you just feel like starting fights) but you've done more to create the current alliance system than most other players so claiming to be so "revolutionary" now is really hypocritical.

If you really do want to "change" things, there's a better way to do it than constantly tooting your own horn and calling everyone else "sheep." A lesser known alliance trying the same type of things would be mocked and attacked. The only reason that you can get away with it is because NSO is the flavor of the month.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Duncan King

[heggo]

I'm just waiting now for an alliance to create an anti-bandwagoning doctrine. That should be the one to cause curiosity in the masses, not the opposite.

The cyberverse has already had enough experience with alliances and blocs that seek to deny others their natural rights.

[Chickenzilla]

Congratulations, NSO! You are so revolutionary that you have actually set the Planet back a couple years. I will laugh the day you use this to interfere in something that is not your business and get smoked because of it. Not only have you stated that you will bandwagon on every conflict that exists, you've also stated that you will leak intel when ever you feel like it. There is a reason that things are done the way they are. When an alliance that you have no tie to gets into a conflict with another alliance that you also have no tie to, why is it your business at all to interfere? It seems to me that NSO has become CN's nosy neighbor because you love to gossip and stick your nose into anything.

I eagerly await the announcement by the NSO that all nations, no matter whether they're actually in NSO, can claim the protection of NSO. Then you will truly have set the world back to a state of nature where there are no alliances, just nations. But make no mistake, you, Ivan Moldavi, are no John Lennon. I'm not sure where this libertarian streak came from (or maybe you just feel like starting fights) but you've done more to create the current alliance system than most other players so claiming to be so "revolutionary" now is really hypocritical.

If you really do want to "change" things, there's a better way to do it than constantly tooting your own horn and calling everyone else "sheep." A lesser known alliance trying the same type of things would be mocked and attacked. The only reason that you can get away with it is because NSO is the flavor of the month.

You amuse me.

Keep on keeping on NSO.

[Anthony]

But make no mistake, you, Ivan Moldavi, are no John Lennon

I don't think being John Lennon was ever the Dark Lord's intention.

[Corinan]

Not only have you stated that you will bandwagon on every conflict that exists, you've also stated that you will leak intel when ever you feel like it.

Where did we state that? Please quote it for me, I swear I must have missed it.

[Ragashingo]

Congratulations, NSO! You are so revolutionary that you have actually set the Planet back a couple years. I will laugh the day you use this to interfere in something that is not your business and get smoked because of it. Not only have you stated that you will bandwagon on every conflict that exists, you've also stated that you will leak intel when ever you feel like it. There is a reason that things are done the way they are. When an alliance that you have no tie to gets into a conflict with another alliance that you also have no tie to, why is it your business at all to interfere? It seems to me that NSO has become CN's nosy neighbor because you love to gossip and stick your nose into anything.

I eagerly await the announcement by the NSO that all nations, no matter whether they're actually in NSO, can claim the protection of NSO. Then you will truly have set the world back to a state of nature where there are no alliances, just nations. But make no mistake, you, Ivan Moldavi, are no John Lennon ("Imagine there's no alliances..."). I'm not sure where this libertarian streak came from (or maybe you just feel like starting fights) but you've done more to create the current alliance system than most other players so claiming to be so "revolutionary" now is really hypocritical.

If you really do want to "change" things, there's a better way to do it than constantly tooting your own horn and calling everyone else "sheep." A lesser known alliance trying the same type of things would be mocked and attacked. The only reason that you can get away with it is because NSO is the flavor of the month.

Maybe I read the doctrine wrong, but didn't it say that they reserved the right to intervene in conflicts, not that they would do so in every conflict? I seem to recall phrases like: "...shall retain the option, though not the obligation..." so either you have terrible reading comprehension or you are purposely twisting the document to be something it isn't. Either way you should feel ashamed.

[ConeBone69]

he only reason that you can get away with it is because NSO is the flavor of the month.

Yes, but we're a REALLY good flavor and a lot of people think so. You might want to get used to us being around.

[Ragashingo]

Ahh, but it is words that lay the foundations for actions. Do not underestimate their power.

Very true. I've long argued for things I did not currently have the power to bring about. Things like bringing an end to tech raiding or ZI lists. I just hope someone follows through with action on this at the first available opportunity. Getting the worlds perception of treaties straightened out would be awesome. It's too bad that it will probably take a major war to back up this doctrine...

[nc1701]

You don't see how "bandwagoning" is an invented concept used to weaken an enemy force by denying the legitimacy of joining parties?

Of course it is, but the Sith have shown there weakness by trying to e-lawyering around a stupid concept instead of just ignoring it. If you need to write a legal document stating that you have sovereign rights then you are doing something wrong. Fact is every other alliance on planet Bob holds the same sovereign to declare war. But for some reason NSO had to write a document stating that, and fill it up with legalese. That's not just weak, it is plain pathetic.

[Starfox101]

Like I said before in another thread, when we look back we'll see that Vox Populi and New Sith Order saved this game. The sole reason for their existence is to make this world a better world.

Ugh. Please don't throw them in with us. We in Vox spent 9 months fighting a physical, and verbal war, while incredibly outnumbered and outgunned, and hated by basically both sides. NSO? They tech raid and exploit people. They throw their allies weight around and like to talk about rolling alliances. What good are they doing? What good have they done?

[Ragashingo]

Of course it is, but the Sith have shown there weakness by trying to e-lawyering around a stupid concept instead of just ignoring it. If you need to write a legal document stating that you have sovereign rights then you are doing something wrong. Fact is every other alliance on planet Bob holds the same sovereign to declare war. But for some reason NSO had to write a document stating that, and fill it up with legalese. That's not just weak, it is plain pathetic.

I do agree there. Somewhat. But if you consider that this doctrine was written as much for the fun of reading and interacting with the thread it would create as actually fixing CN's misconceptions on treaties then it isn't quite so pathetic.

[heggo]

Of course it is, but the Sith have shown there weakness by trying to e-lawyering around a stupid concept instead of just ignoring it. If you need to write a legal document stating that you have sovereign rights then you are doing something wrong. Fact is every other alliance on planet Bob holds the same sovereign to declare war. But for some reason NSO had to write a document stating that, and fill it up with legalese. That's not just weak, it is plain pathetic.

We wrote down our rights. That doesn't show weakness. That shows that we've developed a written language. Believe it or not, there are benefits to writing things down.

Oh yeah, and while all other alliances have these rights, they like to pretend that they don't.

[heggo]

Ugh. Please don't throw them in with us. We in Vox spent 9 months fighting a physical, and verbal war, while incredibly outnumbered and outgunned, and hated by basically both sides.

Take that starfox! We'll ruin you through association!

[SpoiL]

Of course it is, but the Sith have shown there weakness by trying to e-lawyering around a stupid concept instead of just ignoring it. If you need to write a legal document stating that you have sovereign rights then you are doing something wrong. Fact is every other alliance on planet Bob holds the same sovereign to declare war. But for some reason NSO had to write a document stating that, and fill it up with legalese. That's not just weak, it is plain pathetic.

Ignorance.

We'd have done it with or without this doctrine. Don't mind us letting other people know they can as well.

We're in the changing the world business.

[Duncan King]

I don't think being John Lennon was ever the Dark Lord's intention.

He's no Thomas Hobbs either.

Maybe I read the doctrine wrong, but didn't it say that they reserved the right to intervene in conflicts, not that they would do so in every conflict? I seem to recall phrases like: "...shall retain the option, though not the obligation..." so either you have terrible reading comprehension or you are purposely twisting the document to be something it isn't. Either way you should feel ashamed.

Oh please. "Retaining the option..." means that they can and will interfere anytime they feel like it.

Where did we state that? Please quote it for me, I swear I must have missed it.

Article III

The New Sith Order shall retain the option, though not the obligation, to share intelligence critical to the security of another alliance with it. Reciprocally, the New Sith Order acknowledges that all alliances retain the same option to share intelligence with it.

It's an openly phrased paragraph that can be construed to say that they'll leak often or rarely.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Duncan King

[heggo]

There is a reason that things are done the way they are.

And that reason is inertia. The Karma War has freed you all but the slaves are so timid that they pretend the master's whip is still at their backs. That we realize that we are free is no fault.

And in case you required clarification, we of the New Sith Order do not ascribe to the belief that "we must because we can!"

Edited August 9, 2009 by heggo