A Statement from Doomhouse

[Earogema]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300598806' post='2670856']
Guess what, Ochocinco is gone, and Roq, myself, and the majority of the Umbrellian government weren't in Umbrella when that happened, but if you really want to bring that up - by all means.
[/quote]
And NPO hadn't rolled a neutral alliance for a while and hadn't rolled ANY alliance in 1 year with a new government and a new Emperor.

So accusing them of supporting the GPA war whilst absolving Umbrella/TOP is a bit silly.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Earogema

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1300598963' post='2670859']
um, isn't that your whole reason for attacking NPO? Did you really just shoot holes in your own CB? I mean come on, you guys changed but nobody else did?
[/quote]

Um, what the hell are you talking about? What does Umbrella declaring in support of TOP on GPA in 2008 have to do with us declaring on NPO for reasons Roquentin has outlined many times have to do with each other?

Edit: if you're going with the "NPO has a new emperor, therefore they have changed" argument, I don't buy that, especially since their postwar Karma conduct as well as Mary staying in the position she's been in invalidates that.

Edited March 20, 2011 by AAAAAAAAAAGGGG

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300598806' post='2670856']
Guess what, Ochocinco is gone, and Roq, myself, and the majority of the Umbrellian government weren't in Umbrella when that happened, but if you really want to bring that up - by all means.
[/quote]


Matters not a whit, Slayer99 left this planet ages ago and we still get raked over the coals for stuff from his era.

Umbrella will always, always carry that stain. No matter who is in Govt or was then. You rolled the GPA. Don't run from your history.

[Earogema]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300599186' post='2670862']
Um, what the hell are you talking about? What does Umbrella declaring in support of TOP on GPA in 2008 have to do with us declaring on NPO for reasons Roquentin has outlined many times have to do with each other?

Edit: if you're going with the "NPO has a new emperor, therefore they have changed" argument, I don't buy that, especially since their postwar Karma conduct as well as Mary staying in the position she's been in invalidates that.
[/quote]
Mary can be overriden by the Emperor 100% and besides that, I don't think you can even name a single action which Mary carried out without approval by the Emperor.

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1300599296' post='2670865']
Matters not a whit, Slayer99 left this planet ages ago and we still get raked over the coals for stuff from his era.

Umbrella will always, always carry that stain. No matter who is in Govt or was then. You rolled the GPA. Don't run from your history.
[/quote]

From the stats I've seen, we declared maybe like 3 wars on GPA, if that. We didn't roll GPA. Umbrella as a whole regrets their actions in that war. TPF? You guys have embraced Slayer's legacy, when he left his blood brothers on the field and struck a deal with our enemies and left us out to dry. When he forcefully disbanded NoV. When he went full on Stockholm Syndrome and allied those that were originally set out to destroy him, the same alliance you still remained allied to today.

Alliances make mistakes, but at least we've been able to own up to that much.

[Guest avenger218]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300598806' post='2670856']
Guess what, Ochocinco is gone, and Roq, myself, and the majority of the Umbrellian government weren't in Umbrella when that happened, but if you really want to bring that up - by all means.
[/quote]
That thread proves that Umbrella are nothing but ass kissers that suck up to the current alliances in charge. you blindly followed NPO to war against one neutral alliance. Now you blindly follow MK to war against an alliance that had nothing to do with this war.
Ochocinco may be gone but it's obvious Umbrella hasn't changed one bit.
3 years ago Umbrella was a once removed NPO satellite, now you're a MK satellite.
When are you guys gonna man up and stand on your own 2 feet?

[Judge X]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300599186' post='2670862']
Um, what the hell are you talking about? What does Umbrella declaring in support of TOP on GPA in 2008 have to do with us declaring on NPO for reasons Roquentin has outlined many times have to do with each other?

Edit: if you're going with the "NPO has a new emperor, therefore they have changed" argument, I don't buy that, especially since their postwar Karma conduct as well as Mary staying in the position she's been in invalidates that.
[/quote]
You are still trying to blame NPO from 2 years ago for today. You ever think your lack of communication is your fault? You pretend to be benevolent and trustworthy, but you wouldn't know the first thing about integrity or honor. Vol Navy hit it on the head. Cry me a river. That is all I see. I'm not quite done having fun yet. keep this thread rolling as long as possible. June, July, August for all I care. The longer you fight, the slower you grow and while we too lose the growth it just makes more and more opportunity for SF and DR to roll you easily as they are pounding on the tech. LOL. You guys are a joke. Your gonna do nothing more than sit at the bottom with nothing, just like us. I bet that we have better rebuild programs. Wanna bet?

Edit: Add-on. What's gonna happen when TOP don't choose you and rolls with DR? When their shiny powerful upper-tier that can match yours rolls out and wipes you out? When our Upper Tier finally leaves peace mode at the end of 6-7 months and you look stupid? You wanted this war. We wanted to be left alone.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Judge X

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1300597628' post='2670838']
We bring it up a lot less often than people like you do.[/quote]

Ya'll keep referencing NPO's past crimes. Yes, I bring it up as well but most of the time, it is in reference to ya'lls side bringing it up. Usually in something of "We aren't as bad as NPO was" style posts.


[quote]My point was that something isn't moral or immoral because NPO did or didn't do it.[/quote]

Actually that is false. If it was immoral for NPO to do it, then it sure is immoral for anyone else to do it. Something immoral does not magically become moral simply because a former victim of NPO is now doing it.


[quote]No we gave them terms designed to get them out of peace mode so that those upper tier peace mode nations actually have to fight. It was not "meant to mirror an action NPO did in the past", that didn't factor into the decision at all.

If we were really trying to "mirror" NPO as you say the terms at the end of it would be open ended like NPO would do, we wouldn't be telling them that will get white peace at the end of it.[/quote]

So I was mistaken. You don't copy it exactly, you do add your own flair. Still does not mean it is not a very near copy.

[quote]We are acting like MK, it's you who insists on looking at in light of what NPO used to do.

How many MK posts referenced vietFAN in this thread? I see only one reference from an MK poster in the first two pages to NPO threatening people who used peace mode in the past.

The MK prior to Karma would never have let an enemy get away with the avoid fighting by throwing everyone into peace mode strategy. No reasonable alliance would have or will now.[/quote]

If I see actions similar to what NPO did in the past, then I will reflect on that. Again, something immoral done by NPO or one of its henchmen, will never become magically moral simply because it is a former victim of NPO doing such actions.


[quote]This world is old so there aren't a lot of things to do that no one has ever done before. That doesn't mean that we are just "copying" anyone. And we certainly do things with our own flavor. For example in this instance we are insisting on war and fighting while others in the past might have accepted reps or other terms instead. Has any other major alliance ever done a treaty reset like we did? The frequency of white peace is also a trademark of the "new hegemony" in general. Our propaganda is unique. I think your insistence on looking on our actions in light of what NPO used to do just shows that you are stuck on Karma.
[/quote]

I would say TOP/Co came up with something new. Your propaganda is typically hypocritical depending on if you are the ones being the "victims" (such as the pre-emptive attack by TOP/Co) or doing the action (such as pre-emptively attacking NPO). It is hard to keep your propaganda straight since it consistently changes. Sure the frequency of white peace may be more, but the amount of reps sure has gone up. 2 billion from Legion???? I don't even think NPO/Co would ever have given reps that high for a non-core alliance.

I am not stuck on Karma anymore. I know Karma was an illusion. Just like lines like this "We near the end. The end of forced disbandment. The end of terms that cripple alliances forever. The end of silence for fear of persecution. The end of the influence of those who would overthrow these goals in favor of their own return to power. The end of cowardice. The end of myth and fear. The end of this war." are nothing more than an illusion and propaganda that will be thrown away when it is convenient to do so.

Your insistence on not actually learning from history is amazing. There is a reason there is an adage that goes "Those who don't learn from history, are doomed to repeat it". Your actions are a reflection of the hegemony of old, not some new hegemony as the one described in the quote from the OP.

As for your treaty reset, I can only quote Geoffron X here, "Wait, you're bringing out the treaty reset as your major uniqueness? Where you resigned with most of your allies, except for those in Polar's sphere of influence, so that all it was was an attempt to hide that fact?" Though there are maybe a couple or so alliances that you did not resign with outside Polar's influence as well.

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300598806' post='2670856']
Guess what, Ochocinco is gone, and Roq, myself, and the majority of the Umbrellian government weren't in Umbrella when that happened, but if you really want to bring that up - by all means.
[/quote]

Did you not notice the New Emperor Cortath of NPO? Or is a new leader and what not valid for only those not NPO?

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300599671' post='2670873']
From the stats I've seen, we declared maybe like 3 wars on GPA, if that. We didn't roll GPA. Umbrella as a whole regrets their actions in that war. TPF? You guys have embraced Slayer's legacy, when he left his blood brothers on the field and struck a deal with our enemies and left us out to dry. When he forcefully disbanded NoV. When he went full on Stockholm Syndrome and allied those that were originally set out to destroy him, the same alliance you still remained allied to today.

Alliances make mistakes, but at least we've been able to own up to that much.
[/quote]

Wait that was done to Genmay, not Umbrella? Or is Umbrella stating that past actions committed against Genmay are thus past actions committed against Umbrella? Which means past actions committed [i]by[/b] both Genmay and Umbrella (regardless of gov) are also still valid. You cannot have it both ways mate. If the past actions committed by Umbrella are no longer valid, due to no longer having the same gov, which means that holds true for all other alliances. Now you bring up actions committed against Genmay as being legitimate reasons for [i]Umbrella[/i] to not like someone? Man, it appears that Umbrella wants everyone to forget what they have done but won't do the same for others even if it was against an alliance that is not Umbrella. Double standards much?

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1300599766' post='2670875']
Edit: Add-on. What's gonna happen when TOP don't choose you and rolls with DR? When their shiny powerful upper-tier that can match yours rolls out and wipes you out? When our Upper Tier finally leaves peace mode at the end of 6-7 months and you look stupid?
[/quote]

Look at your upper tier. Now look at ours. Now to yours again. Now to ours.

Sadly, your upper tier isn't ours.

Also, we have an NAP with TOP, so they probably wouldn't be attacking us anyways!

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300599671' post='2670873']
From the stats I've seen, we declared maybe like 3 wars on GPA, if that. We didn't roll GPA. Umbrella as a whole regrets their actions in that war. TPF? You guys have embraced Slayer's legacy, when he left his blood brothers on the field and struck a deal with our enemies and left us out to dry. When he forcefully disbanded NoV. When he went full on Stockholm Syndrome and allied those that were originally set out to destroy him, the same alliance you still remained allied to today.

Alliances make mistakes, but at least we've been able to own up to that much.
[/quote]


Sorry, doesn't compute. You declared on GPA, you gave your support to that rolling. You don't get to say we are guilty of X 4 years ago, stuff we paid a massive price for btw, but get to claim you are changed and therefore innocent these days. Especially while pre-emptively rolling someone who was trying their best to remain neutral in the Polar/VE war.

But please, continue to try and dredge up things that happened long before the war where we lost 2/3rds of our members, 90% of our pre-war NS and had to pay reps to top it off for those actions.

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1300600227' post='2670877']
Wait that was done to Genmay, not Umbrella? Or is Umbrella stating that past actions committed against Genmay are thus past actions committed against Umbrella? Which means past actions committed [i]by[/b] both Genmay and Umbrella (regardless of gov) are also still valid. You cannot have it both ways mate. If the past actions committed by Umbrella are no longer valid, due to no longer having the same gov, which means that holds true for all other alliances. Now you bring up actions committed against Genmay as being legitimate reasons for [i]Umbrella[/i] to not like someone? Man, it appears that Umbrella wants everyone to forget what they have done but won't do the same for others even if it was against an alliance that is not Umbrella. Double standards much?
[/quote]

Those were things in reference to what TPF had done against others, not specifically Genmay. Hell, I wasn't even thinking of Genmay as a specific incident. TPF still embraces that they left UJP out to dry, and doesn't seem to care, and embraces their current path.

[Letum]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300599186' post='2670862']
Edit: if you're going with the "NPO has a new emperor, therefore they have changed" argument, I don't buy that, especially since their postwar Karma conduct as well as Mary staying in the position she's been in invalidates that.
[/quote]

Neither our Regent, nor our Emperor were in those positions prior to Karma. As for our post-war conduct, I would not particularly consider the vocal denouncement of alliances who regularly participate in extortions, beat-downs and team mass-raids with the sole intent to provoke as a sign of ruthlessness or aggression. Of course, coming from a group so obsessed with destructive urges and vengeance, I would understand why you are unable to see the vast gulf between mere outrage and the desire to inflict unwarranted and severe material harm.

Actions always speak louder than words - though in this case, if you look beyond the pretty wrapping of the words leadership uses, the words of Doomhouse tend to complement their aggressive nature quite well. You have yet to give any indication you have even thought about changing your ways.

[Judge X]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300600333' post='2670880']
Look at your upper tier. Now look at ours. Now to yours again. Now to ours.

Sadly, your upper tier isn't ours.

Also, we have an NAP with TOP, so they probably wouldn't be attacking us anyways!
[/quote]
Tell me they won't choose DuckRoll over you. PLZ? NAP's don't mean anything when your closest friends are rolling out. Funny you didn't answer anything else in my post. It get to you Cupcake? Pick and choose as you see fit. It won't change anything. you may think you have friends, but even the most stalwart friend knows when enough is enough. FAN and TOP won't be here forever. It'd have been better for FAN to have just demanded NPO let them whoop on them for a month. NPO probably would have agreed. They know all too well that they owe FAN for their mistakes. Your corrupting good alliances who have been wronged, but everyday you become more and more the Wrongdoer. One day you will log on to have a bad taste in your mouth. That is the should have left them alone saltiness.

[foxfire99]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1300600227' post='2670877']

Actually that is false. If it was immoral for NPO to do it, then it sure is immoral for anyone else to do it. Something immoral does not magically become moral simply because a former victim of NPO is now doing it.

[/quote]

From an objective standpoint, I think you missed the point here. His was that morality is independent of NPO. Yours seems to be that morality does not depend on who does it. Kind of the same point. One of you needs to take the opposite position or this thread may not reach a hundred pages.

[Guest avenger218]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300600333' post='2670880']
Look at your upper tier. Now look at ours. Now to yours again. Now to ours.

Sadly, your upper tier isn't ours.

Also, we have an NAP with TOP, so they probably wouldn't be attacking us anyways!
[/quote]
[url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Green_Protection_Agency_Declaration_of_Neutrality"]GPA Declaration of Neutrality[/url]

[url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/The_Continuum"]The Continuum[/url]

[url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/BLEU"]BLEU[/url]

[url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/WUT"]WUT[/url]

If the strongest kind of treaty, a power bloc isn't gonna keep alliances from attacking eachother, the weakest of all treaties, NAPs isn't going to keep TOP off of you at some later date.

[foxfire99]

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1300600964' post='2670893']
It'd have been better for FAN to have just demanded NPO let them whoop on them for a month. NPO probably would have agreed.
[/quote]

No. They would have leaked the request and ridiculed it on the OWF for weeks. Even that apology was pretty clearly a PR stunt. NPO does not have the relationship with FAN you seem to portray.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300600570' post='2670885']
Those were things in reference to what TPF had done against others, not specifically Genmay. Hell, I wasn't even thinking of Genmay as a specific incident. TPF still embraces that they left UJP out to dry, and doesn't seem to care, and embraces their current path.
[/quote]


Our current path as in not doing anything war wise besides defending allies since 2008? Working for a year to mend relations with on old adversary in the STA? Things like that?

TPF still embraces that they left UJP out to dry? I don't know that we have more than 5 members left from UJP era. I have been in TPF almost for over 3 years and I wasn't around for the UJP stuff. We literally never talk about that, ever. I doubt there is a single post in our forums about UJP outside of possibly a TPF history page.

Most of the UJP/NoV/GPA veterans actually left TPF and founded Poison Clan. Hell, Twisted was the lead General for TPF at that time and I actually fought alongside of him vs GPA.

The TPF you are speaking of died years ago.

Umbrella on the other hand are still doing pretty much the same thing they were doing 3-4 years ago. You are just doing it with a different set of allies.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='avenger218' timestamp='1300599740' post='2670874']
That thread proves that Umbrella are nothing but ass kissers that suck up to the current alliances in charge. you blindly followed NPO to war against one neutral alliance. Now you blindly follow MK to war against an alliance that had nothing to do with this war.
Ochocinco may be gone but it's obvious Umbrella hasn't changed one bit.
3 years ago Umbrella was a once removed NPO satellite, now you're a MK satellite.
When are you guys gonna man up and stand on your own 2 feet?
[/quote]

I don't know where you're getting your facts but it's Umbrella that controls Doomhouse, not MK. You must have missed that bit.

[Banksy]

please top, don't betray doomhouse.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1300601687' post='2670901']
please top, don't betray doomhouse.
[/quote]
Just make sure you somehow win the war and TOP won't run off, mkay?

[Banksy]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1300601610' post='2670899']
Our current path as in not doing anything war wise besides defending allies since 2008? Working for a year to mend relations with on old adversary in the STA? Things like that?

TPF still embraces that they left UJP out to dry? I don't know that we have more than 5 members left from UJP era. I have been in TPF almost for over 3 years and I wasn't around for the UJP stuff. We literally never talk about that, ever. I doubt there is a single post in our forums about UJP outside of possibly a TPF history page.

Most of the UJP/NoV/GPA veterans actually left TPF and founded Poison Clan. Hell, Twisted was the lead General for TPF at that time and I actually fought alongside of him vs GPA.

The TPF you are speaking of died years ago.

Umbrella on the other hand are still doing pretty much the same thing they were doing 3-4 years ago. You are just doing it with a different set of allies.
[/quote]
uh, what? so you accuse umbrella of not changing because of something that happened 4 years ago because of the culture (or whatever), but then say that you have changed (note: using the same reasoning NFLgeneric was - 'barely anyone is left, it's all history etc)?

although the word hypocrisy is overused on these forums, i feel its aptly applied in this case.

[Guest avenger218]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1300601687' post='2670901']
please top, don't betray doomhouse.
[/quote]
TOP betrayed NPO, what makes you guys so special?

[TrotskysRevenge]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300599186' post='2670862']
Um, what the hell are you talking about? What does Umbrella declaring in support of TOP on GPA in 2008 have to do with us declaring on NPO for reasons Roquentin has outlined many times have to do with each other?

Edit: if you're going with the "NPO has a new emperor, therefore they have changed" argument, I don't buy that, especially since their postwar Karma conduct as well as Mary staying in the position she's been in invalidates that.
[/quote]
Post Karma conduct. Just what did the NPO do post-Karma that was so evil? Who did we attack? Who did we screw over? Name one thing we did. Just one.

We sat rebuilding for over a year and the next intentionally not getting involved in anything, and that includes not taking any bait or provoking (i.e Red Raiding Party).

By the way, the Regent follows the course set by the Emperor, who was new, so her position did in fact change. Perhaps not in name, but certainly in direction.

So again, tell me, just what did we do that made our conduct so bad?

[size="1"]Edited by Blueline[/size]

Edited March 20, 2011 by TrotskysRevenge

[Banksy]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1300601776' post='2670902']
Just make sure you [b]somehow win[/b] the war and TOP won't run off, mkay?
[/quote]
and here i was thinking alterego was delusional. considering most of our opponents have lost 50% of their NS, short of actually fighting ourselves, losing would be fairly difficult at this stage~

[quote name='avenger218' timestamp='1300601961' post='2670905']
TOP betrayed NPO, what makes you guys so special?
[/quote]
1) they didn't.
2) [i]woooosh[/i].

[Guest avenger218]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1300602143' post='2670907']
and here i was thinking alterego was delusional. considering most of our opponents have lost 50% of their NS, short of actually fighting ourselves, losing would be fairly difficult at this stage~


1) they didn't.
2) [i]woooosh[/i].
[/quote]
well let's see, TOP was in The Continuum, followed NPO around like a whipped pup,
TOP attacks NPO in Karma, TOP attacks NPO AGAIN in THIS war.
better win lest they decide your not powerful enough to chum around with anymore.