A Statement from Doomhouse

[Feuersturm]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1300411754' post='2668559']
I've only had one target this war, a dude in Legion who didn't manage to get into peace mode in time
[/quote]

Aww. I've had a good dozen wars or so since I left the 60k strength range. Not everyone in the upper tiers went of into peace. A lot of us are using PM to rotate out of anarchy, a very viable tactic. As has been stated by several MK'rs, you guys can easily sell of infra and tech to hit us, right?

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Kyaris' timestamp='1300411402' post='2668552']
No see the problem is you guys are not fighting. This isn't opposite day. You're not cute. No one is falling for it. As far as I know he has never left war mode.
[/quote]
While I am currently busy fighting three nations, I'll be sure to send him a trophy at the next possible opportunity. oh and if you think I'm bluffing, pop in by our embassies sometime and see for yourself. It will be FANtastic. And for the record I am not cute but I have been called handsome by some of the lovely ladies out there.

Edited March 18, 2011 by William Bonney

[Kyaris]

[quote name='Feuersturm' timestamp='1300411895' post='2668561']
Aww. I've had a good dozen wars or so since I left the 60k strength range. Not everyone in the upper tiers went of into peace. A lot of us are using PM to rotate out of anarchy, a very viable tactic. As has been stated by several MK'rs, you guys can easily sell of infra and tech to hit us, right?
[/quote]

Or they can wait until your people come out of peace mode for a real war. Selling infra/tech to hit your lower guys so that your guys can come out of peace mode and attack at an advantage. Cool idea. For a clown.

[Guffey]

[quote name='Kyaris' timestamp='1300412149' post='2668564']
Or they can wait until your people come out of peace mode for a real war. Selling infra/tech to hit your lower guys so that your guys can come out of peace mode and attack at an advantage. Cool idea. For a clown.
[/quote]

your the ones complaining about not having targets though, not them

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Chickenzilla' timestamp='1300411774' post='2668560']
I don't have a crystal ball brah
[/quote]

You could have fooled me.

[Feuersturm]

[quote name='Kyaris' timestamp='1300412149' post='2668564']
Or they can wait until your people come out of peace mode for a real war. Selling infra/tech to hit your lower guys so that your guys can come out of peace mode and attack at an advantage. Cool idea. For a clown.
[/quote]

I've been in a real war, and so has a good 80% - 90% of our alliance.


edit: And I mean in this war, too. Just because you guys didn't have your fun doesn't mean we have to pay for it. We are not here for your entertainment.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Feuersturm

[Kyaris]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1300412081' post='2668563']
While I am currently busy fighting three nations, I'll be sure to send him a trophy at the next possible opportunity. oh and if you think I'm bluffing, pop in by our embassies sometime and see for yourself. It will be FANtastic. And for the record I am not cute but I have been called handsome by some of the lovely ladies out there.
[/quote]

I wouldn't call what Nordreich is doing to you "fighting".

[William Blake]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1300411640' post='2668557']
There are differences between that NPO/GATO situation, and the Doomhouse/NPO one.

NPO told GATO to get out of peace mode or they will be perma warred, no peace ever, and harsh reps.
Doomhouse told NPO to come out of peace mode where we will fight for a set period of time and then go our separate ways, white peace. Doomhouse also in no way threatened perma war, the closest thing to that was "war will continue until both sides agree to terms that will end the war", which is hardly the same as "perma war".
[/quote]
Nice spin. DH said they would continue to fight until Pacifica accepts the PM term. That is exactly the same thing as GATO's situation, you are just wording it slightly differently. You just changed "perma war unless you accept our terms" to "continued war until you accept our terms."

[Penkala]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300404504' post='2668419']
Yes, but they're unacceptable to us for a different reason - Not inability, but unwillingness, to reward GOONS with extortion funds after this war. Under different circumstances, the terms offered to 64Digits would be almost reasonable.

We intend to be broke by war's end. Beyond that, we never leave a war without our allies, so terms with us are pointless to discuss until CoJ gets reasonable terms.
[/quote]

Don't act like you're making sacrifices for your allies anymore. At this point, you have 2 nations at war, both 3,000 NS or smaller.

[Sir Humphrey]

Two things are evident from this thread:

1) NPO was not attacked for anything that it actually did. Rather, it was attacked because of other alliances' perceptions regarding what it [i]did not do[/i]:
[list]
[*]For Umbrella, Roq's justification for the initial war is that NPO was attacked because of a treaty chain that was set off by the PB/NpO war (this is still insufficient to characterise it as a "preemptive strike"). Thus, NPO was attacked because [i]did not[/i] post official clarification that it planned not to enter the war, notwithstanding that DH's response to NPO's official apology to FAN shows that it would not have treated such an announcement as credible anyway.
[*]For GOONS, Sardonic's justification for the war appears to be that NPO [i]did not[/i] make a sufficient effort (as judged by DH) at diplomacy or reform following Karma.
[*]For MK, Azaghul's justification for the war appears to be that NPO's post-Karma propaganda resulted in it being attacked. Propoganda is hardly equivalent to action.
[/list]
DH's perception of NPO inaction has therefore become a CB for DH. This sets a worrisome precedent for future wars.

2) Some (or all) in DH are now claiming that the post-Karma reps paid by NPO absolved it of nothing, and did not neturalise it as a potential future threat or address the balance of power (i.e. they were too generous). If this is the case, then there is every reason to believe that DH will not be satisfied with the one month of all-out war that it has proposed to NPO. I'll grant DH the courtesy of assuming it will actually honour its proposed terms. But there is every reason for it to decide at some point in the future that these terms were again too generous, and that NPO deserves to be attacked again for the same reasons.

Edit: This just confirms my view that DH considered an attack on NPO as inevitable, to neutralise it as a threat and address the balance of power, and was simply looking for an excuse to do so. Ironically, it was NPO's failure to actually provide DH with a specific CB for such an attack that required DH to consider its perceived inaction as a CB.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Sir Humphrey

[Sir Hobo]

the end of crippling terms? so curb stomping for a month isnt a crippling term for peace....mmkay...

[Kyaris]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1300412478' post='2668572']
Don't act like you're making sacrifices for your allies anymore. At this point, you have 2 nations at war, both 3,000 NS or smaller.
[/quote]

Don't forget the two deserters they had.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Kyaris

[Chickenzilla]

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1300412254' post='2668567']
You could have fooled me.
[/quote]
Are you looking in my window right now? It's not a crystal ball. It's a ball [i]of[/i] crystal.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Antonio Salovega VI' timestamp='1300402459' post='2668362']
Come now. Be honest. In actuality, waving your impotent fist here on this stage is the only gift that you choose to give. You could give others but you have deliberately chosen not to. You could be the natural target of nukes and inspire the member-nations of the orders by doing so. But you don't. You could choose to give aid to those in bill lock. But you don't. You could choose to ride to the aid of those who are fighting desperate odds. But you don't. You could choose to send aid when the hostilities end. But you can't and so you won't. Instead you leave your fellow members-nations to fend for themselves while you offer platitudes and half-witicisms. Your blood may still run with the cold resolve of Order but you have chosen not to spill a single drop of it. You may be able to wordsmith paltry statements of encouragement and support but you have deliberately chosen not to back up those statements with anything approaching real sacrifice. What I find most interesting is that you try to justify your cowardice as if it were a noble attribute.
[/quote]
You are completely correct of course. Certainly I could have been more active in retirement (although I'm not sure the term would have any meaning then) and anticipated this unwarranted attack and built up a small nation that would undoubtedly have been ZI'd. And of course there are plenty of nuclear capable nations within range of my own. And possibly I could have wasted some aid slots in order to get myself out of a year long bill lock, because me demonstrating for you that I don't fit your extremely absurd and narrow definition of cowardice makes much more sense than having that money go to a nation that isn't retired or inactive which could actually use it.

Bravo! You have shown me the error of my ways.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Feuersturm' timestamp='1300411602' post='2668556']
I remember similar being done to us to a far extreme. It more then paid for all the reparations we ever charged, combined.
[/quote]

I believe that set of reparations was handed to you not as a way to keep you down for a long period of time but to make you feel the pain of paying reparations. However, as stated, that's not the goal here.

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1300410422' post='2668540']
That's why we call it a pre-emptive strike. Because we see them coming and we hit them first.
[/quote]
We were going to attack Doomhouse? That's a new one for me, I must admit.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1300412478' post='2668572']
Don't act like you're making sacrifices for your allies anymore. At this point, you have 2 nations at war, both 3,000 NS or smaller.
[/quote]
We are rationing our sacrifices to last the entire war.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1300413945' post='2668598']
We were going to attack Doomhouse? That's a new one for me, I must admit.
[/quote]

I am sorry that our conviction that you would attack us or someone near us collides directly with your propaganda line. We did what we had to do and it's done. Now you can be grown ups about it, consider the offer you have on the table and eventually put an end to this, or you can continue !@#$%*ing about the reason for the war, knowing that even if it was completely different it would have produced the same outcome. Unless you're trying to say that you wouldn't refuse the 4 cycles of war for your peace mode nations if we had a standard CB on you and we were sitting on this exact spot.

[Penkala]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300414045' post='2668601']
We are rationing our sacrifices to last the entire war.
[/quote]

No you're not.

Polaris and many of their allies also claimed it was "just a strategy". That's a lie. You're going to keep your nations in peace mode just like everyone else has done.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Kyaris' timestamp='1300412377' post='2668569']
I wouldn't call what Nordreich is doing to you "fighting".
[/quote]
Me neither when you really think of it, but then hey casualties are casualties. Lincoln County is still grateful for them supplying luscious lamb as a side dish to pork chops.

[Caliph]

[quote name='William Blake' timestamp='1300412396' post='2668570']
Nice spin. DH said they would continue to fight until Pacifica accepts the PM term. That is exactly the same thing as GATO's situation, you are just wording it slightly differently. You just changed "perma war unless you accept our terms" to "continued war until you accept our terms."
[/quote]
All wars last until both sides agree on terms to end it. You are acting as if this is something new, and as if us not giving you white peace right now is proof we mean to keep you in perma war. This is false.

The reality of the situation is that we will keep you at war until our alliances can agree on terms to end this war. Our offer has been come out and fight for X many days (1 month) and then we give you white peace.

The difference here is that unlike what NPO did to GATO, we are not threatening perma war, we are not threatening perma zi for peace mode nations, and we are not threatening reparations. In fact is has been stated quite clearly and plainly that we [b]do not want reparations[/b].

Now the way a peace process works is both sides fight it out until they both agree on terms to end the war. Since you have so far as I can tell refused these terms, then the war continues until such a time comes when both our sides agree on terms to end it. Simply put, you had an oppurtunity to take actions and be on the countdown to the end of this war the other day. You refused those terms, so we continue to fight.

This is hardly a perma war situation, just come out so we can smash you a bit then we all go home, white peace. Surely you can see how this greatly differs from what your then emporer told GATO about peace mode?

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1300414990' post='2668619']
No you're not.

Polaris and many of their allies also claimed it was "just a strategy". That's a lie. You're going to keep your nations in peace mode just like everyone else has done.
[/quote]I'm actually not. Only two have been in there the whole war, one is inactive as hell and one is the big guy, who is dying to get out and into the fight (and I promised him he will).

The other two have been in and out variously through the war, and they'll come back out when they're ready.

What I [i]won't[/i] do, is send anyone out prematurely because little Penky tries goading me to make a move.

Edited March 18, 2011 by HeroofTime55

[Achilles]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1300407944' post='2668508']




Just curious, I wasn't around at the time, but isn't that exactly what NPO did?
[/quote]


If you can show me the NPO CB that proves that, I'd be impressed I guess. NPO's CB's didn't already make people happy, but I can honestly say, this is the worst CB that I've ever seen. "We wanted to hit NPO before they decided to go to war. What? They weren't going to go to war? Well, remember all the times they were mean and nasty before? We decided they needed punished... yet again."

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300405225' post='2668441']
It's not OCC. The play must be about VE and GOONS, IC subjects. Either way, who cares? He has a month to write it, going by the NPO timetable.
[/quote]

sure, the subject is IC but the time is OOC. this game is voluntary in terms of OOC time being dedicated to it. you are forcing someone to use more OOC time for an IC thing. just because the material is IC does not make it IC. the time wasted writing up a stupid play for an alliance who could just as easily give far better reps than $500 million is never regained. not only that but the entire idea is idiotic. it does not matter if he has a month or a year, it is still OOC time you are forcing him to use. it is no longer voluntary whatsoever and for what? i don't give a damn if ya'll would find it a hoot to read, some people may not find those terms agreeable simply due to the OOC nature of them. frankly, if you are willing to lower the amount to $100 million then just do it. if you want to humiliate Schatt then you are pathetic and all that crap about a better world DH is trying to promote is shown for the lies that it is.

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300405411' post='2668448']
Yeah about that.[/quote]

about what? i said that MK lied about why MK went to war with NPO... not sure what you are getting at other than you clearly lack an ability to read properly. you are welcome to try for a third time, i hear it is the charm.



[quote]The term that FAN broke was a technicality, they had too many soldiers on 3 or so nations, it was used as an excuse to roll them. Are you actually claiming that it was FANs fault when even NPO is not trying to make that claim anymore?

Carpe Diem broke their surrender terms deliberately so the situations doesn't even compare.

As for the rest of your post it's just baseless slander how does us having a bad cb in your opinion make us liars? You're not even make sense anymore. I get that you don't like MK but it's just sad when you try to dress up your uninformed opinions as facts.
[/quote]

never said NPO had a good reason, just that technically FAN broke their terms. i also saw the debate over Carpe Diem. Technically one could say CD broke their terms. lookie there they do compare.

i don't make sense? i think that has more to do with your lack of reading comprehension than me. but hey, c'est la vie. as for me not liking MK, i used to love MK. then after Karma i watched the transformation of MK. prior to the WotC, while i was in Polaris, i pushed for an MK-Polar treaty. After WotC, when i was in Gremlins, i pushed for a treaty between Gre-MK. after Karma i still liked ya'll. but as the weeks and months went by, i saw the shift in ya'lls attitude and actions. so no, my informed opinions are just that, informed.

for example- what is baseless in there? the fact that MK has been !@#$%*ing about how NPO did not try and become friendly with MK? nope, that is in fact a fact. or is it the fact that MK did nothing to become friendly with NPO? nope, that is also a fact. but NPO gets hit because they did not try... yep, that makes MK hypocrites. i already proved the lies of MK. so i am not sure what you think is uninformed or what does not make sense.

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300406172' post='2668466']
Our cb seem to change between your posts. It started as preemptive attack, then it was related somehow to the karma war (I never really got that one) and now it's apparently boredom and going out in a blaze of glory.

I don't think we had to work very hard on our real cb (which you can find in our DoW thread) and I do think it's very honest. By all mean call it a mean one if you want but if you try to claim that it's dishonest you're really grasping for straws.
[/quote]

well that could be due to the ever-changing reason actually given by DH. if you look at the DoW, it says one thing. if you read Antoine's post, he says another. if you read the everything.must.die thread it says a third. if ya'll would stick to one actual reason, it would be much easier on the rest of us to keep track on what we are supposed to think it is.

and in all reality, given the amount of !@#$%*ing done by MK about the NoCB war and the lack of a cb used there, it would appear that needing a CB to attack an alliance would be of importance to MK. alas, that proved to be yet another lie of MK.

then there is the preemptive attack done to MK by TOP/et al that caused MK to !@#$%* about it and yet MK lauds it now. that is what i meant and am pretty sure actually said. so it appears that MK only hates something when it is done to them, but are more than willing to use those "hated" tactics against others. so that makes ya'll hypocrites and liars.

[Kyaris]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1300415643' post='2668629']
Me neither when you really think of it, but then hey casualties are casualties. Lincoln County is still grateful for them supplying luscious lamb as a side dish to pork chops.
[/quote]

No, see, what I'm pointing out for everyone reading is that you're losing those wars. Badly. You're turtling up and dropping the occasional nuke, the same thing every single NPO does in war because they don't know how to fight.