A Statement from Doomhouse

[chefjoe]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1300398462' post='2668211']
That's a little different. Our terms got better because our membership publicly told Valhalla to shove it and nearly the entire world agreed, thus embarrassing Valhalla to the point where you demanded an apology for embarrassing you. (Where "You" is your alliance. Not "you" chairman hal.)
[/quote]

Embarrassed? No.

Shown where there are some lines on PB that people feel should not be crossed? Yes.

[neneko]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1300398735' post='2668220']
How were they deceived? Now you are just playing obtuse as there have been numerous topics, discussions and posts from those parties regarding said subject and how Archon played woody and moo off against each other.
[/quote]
Did he? I have yet to see any proof of that story. Be careful. You don't want to confuse rumors with facts it makes you look silly.

[Dagrr]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300398560' post='2668216']
We're not interested in Eternal war with NPO. We are more than willing to negotiate with them to a fair compromise. Eternal war is something that nobody deserves, there should always be a clear path to peace.
[/quote]

If you want peace, try offering something the other side will accept.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1300398671' post='2668218']
But now what will people cry about?
[/quote]

How about SethB? VE already has a head start.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1300398671' post='2668218']
But now what will people cry about?
[/quote]
Not wanting to write plays I bet.

[quote name='Henry' timestamp='1300398900' post='2668228']
If you want peace, try offering something the other side will accept.
[/quote]
You're the one who wants peace.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Sardonic

[King Charge]

Why would DH kill NPO? Without NPO, what the hell would they do with their lives? They're just too much fun for them to wipe off of Bob.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1300398671' post='2668218']
But now what will people cry about?
[/quote]
They'll just say we're lying like they've been doing.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300397528' post='2668190']

While it is of course in your full right to think that's true you can hardly hold something against us that we haven't done and you just think that we might do.
[/quote]

Can you seriously type that with a straight face given that this whole war went from something NPO might do to something we did years ago and back to something we might do and then over to what the future of this game [i]might[/i] hold?

[chefjoe]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300398870' post='2668227']
Did he? I have yet to see any proof of that story. Be careful. You don't want to confuse rumors with facts it makes you look silly.
[/quote]

Ive seen enough. Hell, I was involved directly at one point in the start of that fiasco and got to see first hand the effective results of Archons manipulation. He has even posted to the effect of being rather proud of how he got the cards to fall in the beginning of Karma and helping cause the rift in communications that caused TORN to grab peace several NPO allies canceling on them and Pacifica lined up directly in the cross-hairs.


Edit- IDK what hair you are trying to split neneko but if you are trying to somehow spin things to show where Archon did not misdirect and manipulate the situation at the start of Karma then im done talking to you because thats in the realms of delusion that HoT inhabits...

Edited March 17, 2011 by chefjoe

[Karolina]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1300398829' post='2668225']
I agree that MK doesn't have much reason to lie, but again, I have very very little doubt that it's part of the plan to get NPO out of peace mode. It's important to note that, as you yourself say, you were allies with them for over three years and, well, MK doesn't lie to their allies. The same can't really be said of their foreign policy towards enemies, if you see my meaning.

Doom House are only partly justified in attacking NPO like this. Certainly, NPO did a lot of questionable things in their time, but if all DH/PB is going to do is carry that on, then it's not much in the way of a good change.

That's correct, I do not believe that those are the terms DH would normally ask for.

Unlike you, I actually base my views on what alliances say and do. If I see the majority of DH members foaming at the mouth for NPO to throw away the "vaunted hippy shield", then I am going to include that in my arguments.

You're being very naive.
[/quote]
Wanting solid, genuine evidence before I make a judgement, is naive. Well, I guess we'll see, won't we?

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1300398462' post='2668211']
That's a little different. Our terms got better because our membership publicly told Valhalla to shove it and nearly the entire world agreed, thus embarrassing Valhalla to the point where you demanded an apology for embarrassing you. (Where "You" is your alliance. Not "you" chairman hal.)
[/quote]

I know, I was in Ragnarok at the time, beating up your allies. STA did indeed garner public sympathy and as this war drags on for another month or so, perhaps it will swing toward NPO as well. Least we forget, FAN wasn't on anyone's popularity list once upon a time, but by the time VietFAN was over, the vast majority of the world felt it was time for FAN to be allowed to exist outside of Peace Mode.

Oh and..."the entire world" (as if the entire world actually could be made to care about anything) thought that removing Tyga from power sounded a bit over the top and there was criticism of the move, something with which Chefjoe ultimately agreed. 'Embarrassed' is not an adjective I would attach to him or Valhalla, but I can see where they would have asked for an apology, and STA would have been within their rights to refuse.

But back on point...other alliances have held out in the past and gotten better terms. There isn't particularly anything unique about NPO's situation.

Edited March 17, 2011 by ChairmanHal

[Dagrr]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300398920' post='2668229']
You're the one who wants peace.
[/quote]

So you don't want peace and you don't want permawar. Interesting.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1300398474' post='2668213']
I don't think you can say that any war is similar to VietFAN less than two months in.

Plus, your reason for this being not like any other war was that he said "if terms cannot be agreed upon the war will naturally continue"

Can you name me a war where terms were not agreed on that [i]didn't[/i] continue?
[/quote]
Obviously not, but the similarities here are astounding.

"if terms cannot be agreed upon the war will naturally continue" How are you STILL not getting this? It's perma-war until one side budges. Newsflash kids: it ain't gonna be NPO.

No. Because there hasn't [i]been[/i] a war like that (As far as I know. I'm too tired to check the history books right now.). Besides, what does that have to do with anything?

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300398770' post='2668223']
You don't see how it's in any way weakening your claim that we're hegemonic for continuing the war if we can't agree on terms when you admit that this is exactly the same for every other war ever fought?

I ralize that you really don't like DH but could you at least try to apply some basic logic to your arguments?
[/quote]
I don't know what to say, I really don't. You people are so obtuse it's like talking to a wall, it really is. If you can't see the logic of my argument then you are obviously on an intellectual level that lies far below mine.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Henry' timestamp='1300399308' post='2668241']
So you don't want peace and you don't want permawar. Interesting.
[/quote]
Yes, that's exactly what I meant, thank you for drawing the very clear conclusion from my incredibly ambiguous post.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300397052' post='2668177']
[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1300396261' post='2668154']
HoT, I thought we talked about this. That's it, I'm putting you in timeout until you behave.
[/quote]

How about replying to the rest of my post.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300396074' post='2668144']
[s]So you declare an unprovoked and unjustified war of aggression against NPO for no good reason[/s], and then expect to charge them reps for their trouble? That is, if they won't let you completely break their entire alliance first, and even then you might decide that there is no reason to grant peace.

If this was at all about the Polar front, a front that is now closed, you would be offering this whole coalition white peace. The fact that you do not even offer that to Pacifica shows your real motive for this war, to conduct an opportunistic attack against Pacifica and her friends, an offensive born out of paranoia and hatred.

Who is to say if they accept any sort of terms, that you won't launch yet another unprovoked attack against them, after they've sent you money to help you rebuild? This is the problem with your entry strategy. There is no reason whatsoever that any of us should trust that you will hold your word, and therefore no reason that any of us should offer up anything in order to buy a peace that will not last.
[/quote]
I've even crossed out the parts you did, however poorly, respond to. Now tackle the rest, and enough of this misdirection bull!@#$.
[/quote]
Still waiting on a reply from anyone in GOONS, or hell, anyone in Doomhouse. Anyone? Anyone at all? Or are you acknowledging my statements as true?

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Karolina' timestamp='1300399282' post='2668238']
Wanting solid, genuine evidence before I make a judgement, is naive. Well, I guess we'll see, won't we?
[/quote]
No, you're naive in thinking that Doom House is going to be lenient to NPO. They really aren't.

Yep, we'll see.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1300390354' post='2668014']
Ok...so they're a bunch of pansies...and? Does that give anyone a right to keep them down forever just because they don't want to get their ass beat any harder than it already is? You talk about making the world a better place, but this "let us destroy you or its eternal war" crap is exactly what [i]you[/i] fought against in the first place. Sparta didn't go dicks first into AZTEC just so you could get a window to pull this !@#$, we did it to give our allies a window to win against NpO (which they got). If your front was the same as ours - if hitting Pacifica truly was about keeping them off of PB so that VE could take out NpO, as you all told us it was, then you would have let Pacifica go by now.

NPO was neutralized. The was was won. It's time for this to end.
[/quote]

so i wonder if you are realizing, too late apparently, that MK/et al are a bunch of liars? it appears they lied to ya'll in Sparta about their reasoning for war.

[neneko]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1300399235' post='2668237']
Ive seen enough. Hell, I was involved directly at one point in the start of that fiasco and got to see first hand the effective results of Archons manipulation. He has even posted to the effect of being rather proud of how he got the cards to fall in the beginning of Karma and helping cause the rift in communications that caused TORN to grab peace several NPO allies canceling on them and Pacifica lined up directly in the cross-hairs.
[/quote]
I realize that you guys really like this to be true to keep some shred of dignity after that went down but all the attempts to blame it all on Archon so far has failed. Anything I've seen from him in those circumstances were honest. If he did lie to get you people out we would have seen those logs posted as soon as it was found out.

I think even the "Archon promised us a world where everyone were friends and happy" people got more to stand on than you in this matter.

[Dagrr]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300399423' post='2668246']
Yes, that's exactly what I meant, thank you for drawing the very clear conclusion from my incredibly ambiguous post.
[/quote]

You're welcome.

[lamuella]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1300399344' post='2668242']
Obviously not, but the similarities here are astounding.

"if terms cannot be agreed upon the war will naturally continue" How are you STILL not getting this? It's perma-war until one side budges. Newsflash kids: it ain't gonna be NPO.

No. Because there hasn't [i]been[/i] a war like that (As far as I know. I'm too tired to check the history books right now.). Besides, what does that have to do with anything?
[/quote]

The statement "if terms cannot be agreed upon the war will naturally continue" could be made about [b][color="#FF0000"]EVERY WAR IN THE HISTORY OF THE CYBERVERSE[/color][/b]

War continues until peace terms are agreed on. That's how war works.

That doesn't make it a perma-war. It makes it a [b]war[/b].

[neneko]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1300399490' post='2668251']
so i wonder if you are realizing, too late apparently, that MK/et al are a bunch of liars? it appears they lied to ya'll in Sparta about their reasoning for war.
[/quote]
MK does not have a treaty with sparta. I really doubt they did anything in this war on our behalf.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300399503' post='2668252']
I realize that you guys really like this to be true to keep some shred of dignity after that went down but all the attempts to blame it all on Archon so far has failed. Anything I've seen from him in those circumstances were honest. If he did lie to get you people out we would have seen those logs posted as soon as it was found out.
t
I think even the "Archon promised us a world where everyone were friends and happy" people got more to stand on than you in his matter.
[/quote]


I've heard the expression if it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck. I personally went out of my way to make a new avatar for Archon, I hope he enjoys it.
[img]http://keenetrial.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/liar-liar-pants-on-fire.jpg[/img]

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1300399608' post='2668254']
The statement "if terms cannot be agreed upon the war will naturally continue" could be made about [b][color="#FF0000"]EVERY WAR IN THE HISTORY OF THE CYBERVERSE[/color][/b]

War continues until peace terms are agreed on. That's how war works.

That doesn't make it a perma-war. It makes it a [b]war[/b].
[/quote]
What makes it perma-war is when one party demands something so absurd from another party that they know the second party can't possibly accept it.

Like what GOONS is demanding of CoJ.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300399789' post='2668264']
What makes it perma-war is when one party demands something so absurd from another party that they know the second party can't possibly accept it.

[b]Like what GOONS is demanding of CoJ.[/b]
[/quote]

What are we demanding from Coj that they can't possibly accept?

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300399676' post='2668259']
MK does not have a treaty with sparta. I really doubt they did anything in this war on our behalf.
[/quote]

from what i read from his post, it appeared that Sparta at least was told that this war was to keep NPO from hitting PB, which Sparta does have allies in. So, you did not lie to an ally just instead another alliance. so, this just shows that MK is willing to lie to alliances that are not their allies which NPO is what exactly? oh that is right, an enemy. if ya'll willing to lie to alliances on the same front as ya'll, then why should we believe you won't lie to an enemy?

[chefjoe]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300399503' post='2668252']
I realize that you guys really like this to be true to keep some shred of dignity after that went down but all the attempts to blame it all on Archon so far has failed. Anything I've seen from him in those circumstances were honest. If he did lie to get you people out we would have seen those logs posted as soon as it was found out.

I think even the "Archon promised us a world where everyone were friends and happy" people got more to stand on than you in this matter.
[/quote]

Who said he lied?

I said he manipulated and misdirected facts and people knowingly in Karma to suit his and his allies goals. You really trying to dispute that? Wow...if so then please show me where he didnt do all those things and told the complete and honest truth every time he was queried by non allied .gov on the other side of a developing war...you cant

So yea NPO has every right to mistrust what is being said because you are their enemy and anyone whom trusts there enemy's words at face value is an IDIOT. Would MK trust anything Cortath or mhawk said at face value? I think not...