Monster Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 CSN has lowered the rep demands though, so it's not as if they weren't trying to reach a settlement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1298261095' post='2640184'] CSN has lowered the rep demands though, so it's not as if they weren't trying to reach a settlement. [/quote] [color="#0000FF"]They have lowered their demands from a ridiculous number to an only slightly less ridiculous number.[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1298259026' post='2640142'] :rollseyes: No. I'm pointing out this is a lie in your argument and that you're bad allies. [/QUote] Bad allies that came to the defense of LoSS knowing that we faced superior numbers. Right. [QUOTE]If he's not well versed in FA then why is he working on peace talks? [/quote] . . . coming from an alliance that once had Liz as a MoFA [QUOTE]If they feel that way, great. In my opinion, when a Government member says "We at [alliance]," that means it is the opinion of the entire alliance. [/quote] "we at DT have noticed that LoSS is not coordinating well" does not mean that we want to leave them out in the cold to die. Stop insinuating that. There is no logical basis for such an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodivine Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1298261095' post='2640184'] CSN has lowered the rep demands though, so it's not as if they weren't trying to reach a settlement. [/quote] And we've offered up 3 possible and more reasonable agreements if they are so hell bent on reps, but they went for even more absurd reps. [quote] First: 20k tech to Legacy, All peace out and go their way. Second: 10k tech to CSN from any source, 10k to Legacy purchased and sent from DT and any source. <<<< Third: 15k to Legacy from any source, 5k to CSN any source. [/quote] But they have come out with: [quote] The terms stand at 30,000 technology paid by DT nations paid to the combined nations of Legacy and The Commonwealth. During the period that DT is paying reparations they will not carry standing navies or nuclear arsenals. No more negotiating. No more middle-men. No more anything. Surrender or burn. [/quote] They were actually pondering the second one before they went for the latest one. Which if they would continue to ponder it was what was in the ballpark of something reasonable after talks failed and they didn't take the 30k/10k option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocabia Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I'll say openly. I believe we overstepped in asking for reps in the first place. That was a time when DT had the opportunity to show their chops in foreign affairs or simply walk away until we were more reasonable. They did neither. Instead they returned and offered to pay reps. Then the next day, after an OOC attack, they utilized that attack as an excuse to demand white peace and an apology. At that point, there option to be indignant over reps went out the window. They entered a war supposedly to support LoSS and then tried skitter out of it without them after extending their front. At that point they lost the right to be indignant over the reps. They sent messages encouraging our membership to overthrow our government. At other times they sent messages encouraging our membership to join other alliances and disband. At that point, they lost the right to be indignant over the reps. In other words, being indignant over reps is pretty much nonsense at this point. However, I'll say honestly, you aren't required to pay reps to CSN. You can just as easily pay them to the gods of war. You've done so in the last week, I see. You'll do so again in the next week. And don't worry about decomming your nukes and navy. We'll do it for you. Should just take another couple of days to do so. No one is coming to help you. No one is going to give up on reps. No one is going to allow you to make demands in a surrender. Your choices are to pay one way or the other. I actively worked for peace throughout this war, but, frankly, it seems the fastest way to get it at this point is to simply burn you to ash. You can stop it at any point you want, but if I were your membership, I wouldn't bother to hold out hope that your egos will ever be checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocabia Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Myworld' timestamp='1298261559' post='2640195'] And we've offered up 3 possible and more reasonable agreements if they are so hell bent on reps, but they went for even more absurd reps. But they have come out with: They were actually pondering the second one before they went for the latest one. Which if they would continue to ponder it was what was in the ballpark of something reasonable after talks failed and they didn't take the 30k/10k option. [/quote] Keep offering. We're totally likely to accept them. We just need some time to consider them. Let's talk again in two weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298261650' post='2640197'] Then the next day, after an OOC attack, they utilized that attack as an excuse to demand white peace and an apology. At that point, there option to be indignant over reps went out the window. They entered a war supposedly to support LoSS and then tried skitter out of it without them after extending their front. At that point they lost the right to be indignant over the reps. [/quote] Can you prove either of these things, or are they mere speculation based one one or two lines in IRC logs that mean nothing like what you are suggesting? [quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298261712' post='2640198'] Keep offering. We're totally likely to accept them. We just need some time to consider them. Let's talk again in two weeks. [/quote] What a reasonable alliance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonator21 Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298261462' post='2640191'] Bad allies that came to the defense of LoSS knowing that we faced superior numbers. Right. . . . coming from an alliance that once had Liz as a MoFA "we at DT have noticed that LoSS is not coordinating well" does not mean that we want to leave them out in the cold to die. Stop insinuating that. There is no logical basis for such an argument. [/quote] I don't get why anyone thinks Liz was a bad MoFA. Because she told you to $%&@ off? Meh, get a life. Stop ignoring what I'm saying. You completely ignore the second half of the sentence. You say "LoSS has no coordination, so we'd like peace." [quote name='Myworld' timestamp='1298261559' post='2640195'] And we've offered up 3 possible and more reasonable agreements if they are so hell bent on reps, but they went for even more absurd reps. But they have come out with: They were actually pondering the second one before they went for the latest one. Which if they would continue to ponder it was what was in the ballpark of something reasonable after talks failed and they didn't take the 30k/10k option. [/quote] You've offered one, actually. The first one, which was countered with 20k to Legacy, 10k to CSN. You guys decided to decline because you expect the 10k to CSN to not be there next week. The second one we thought about offering, but we didn't. I don't know how you get that it was an official offer made. The third option was what Sarm tried to compromise with DT, but you didn't want any part of it. Myworld, honestly, you should stop posting. Doch is the only DT poster using sense in his posts right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Ozujsko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Myworld' timestamp='1298261559' post='2640195'] And we've offered up 3 possible and more reasonable agreements if they are so hell bent on reps, but they went for even more absurd reps. But they have come out with: They were actually pondering the second one before they went for the latest one. Which if they would continue to ponder it was what was in the ballpark of something reasonable after talks failed and they didn't take the 30k/10k option. [/quote] But the CSN fanboys told me that we weren't negotiating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Ozujsko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298261712' post='2640198'] Keep offering. We're totally likely to accept them. We just need some time to consider them. Let's talk again in two weeks. [/quote] What? Does Goose need to poll everyone on Maroon to make that decision, too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1298262181' post='2640202'] I don't get why anyone thinks Liz was a bad MoFA. Because she told you to $%&@ off? Meh, get a life.[/quote] Perhaps because she was FA in the government that has destroyed the reputation of CSN. [QUOTE]Stop ignoring what I'm saying. You completely ignore the second half of the sentence. You say "LoSS has no coordination, so we'd like peace."[/QUOTE] This does not validate anything you have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonator21 Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298262718' post='2640209'] Perhaps because she was FA in the government that has destroyed the reputation of CSN. This does not validate anything you have said. [/quote] Well, considering the reps were Goose's decision and not hers I see how it is completely her fault. Yes, it does. You are just one of the more pig-headed trolls so you aren't going to admit any wrong-doings of your alliance. On that note, I'm done responding to this thread. It's just going in circles of stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believland Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298262718' post='2640209'] Perhaps because she was FA in the government that has destroyed the reputation of CSN. [/quote] Hey now, don't you know you can't argue with a White Knight. As long as she has a vagina she's not in the wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298261650' post='2640197'] I'll say openly. I believe we overstepped in asking for reps in the first place. That was a time when DT had the opportunity to show their chops in foreign affairs or simply walk away until we were more reasonable. They did neither. Instead they returned and offered to pay reps. Then the next day, after an OOC attack, they utilized that attack as an excuse to demand white peace and an apology. At that point, there option to be indignant over reps went out the window. They entered a war supposedly to support LoSS and then tried skitter out of it without them after extending their front. At that point they lost the right to be indignant over the reps. They sent messages encouraging our membership to overthrow our government. At other times they sent messages encouraging our membership to join other alliances and disband. At that point, they lost the right to be indignant over the reps. In other words, being indignant over reps is pretty much nonsense at this point. However, I'll say honestly, you aren't required to pay reps to CSN. You can just as easily pay them to the gods of war. You've done so in the last week, I see. You'll do so again in the next week. And don't worry about decomming your nukes and navy. We'll do it for you. Should just take another couple of days to do so. No one is coming to help you. No one is going to give up on reps. No one is going to allow you to make demands in a surrender. Your choices are to pay one way or the other. I actively worked for peace throughout this war, but, frankly, it seems the fastest way to get it at this point is to simply burn you to ash. You can stop it at any point you want, but if I were your membership, I wouldn't bother to hold out hope that your egos will ever be checked. [/quote] somebody's a bit upset things aren't going their way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pd73bassman Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1298262834' post='2640211'] Well, considering the reps were Goose's decision and not hers I see how it is completely her fault. [/quote] Hmm, are you sure Goose came up with those reps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1298260608' post='2640173'] Saying they have no military coordination then adding, in the same sentence, that DT would like to get peace looks to me that DT wants peace because LoSS has no coordination. [/quote] let us deconstruct the sentence then: "We, at DT, feel like this war has gone on for too long. While we at DT are coordinated, LoSS has 0 coordination. We are looking to get peace" okay first part- We, at DT, feel like this war has gone on for too long. aiight so from this we can establish that DT feels the war has gone on for too long. that is simple enough. now add in the fact that back room rumors have it that TIO/LoSS/Hydra will soon be at peace and you get that the reason LoSS stayed at war (TIO not getting peace) will soon end. thus, that also ends DT's reason for coming in (to help LoSS against Legacy while LoSS waits for TIO to get peace). the second part- While we at DT are coordinated, LoSS has 0 coordination. this part shows that LoSS had no coordination at that time (which was soon corrected). this would mean that DT was taking the brunt of the war, which is the reason we came in. to take the brunt of Legacy and keep said heat off of LoSS. it also shows that we (and yes, i use we simply because TiTaN is gov as this may not reflect the feelings of all DT members but since TiTaN is gov, he does represent the alliance) feel that LoSS was far more uncoordinated than we had thought they would be. the last part- We are looking to get peace. simple and straight forward really. DT was looking to begin peace discussions. this by no means means we were looking to begin them without LoSS. it just means we are looking to begin them period. TiTaN can only speak for DT and not for LoSS (we are not like CSN that has foreign government speak for them at negotiations so i understand that it is something unusual for CSN to think that alliances actually don't speak on behalf of other alliances). LoSS was most likely presumed to have asked to begin discussions with CSN/Legacy/the Brain (i could be wrong, but that seems far more logical than what you are proposing). now to cover the fact that DT did speak on behalf of FHU- a protectorate is far different from an allied alliance. speaking on behalf of a protectorate is actually normal since they are a protectorate for a reason. Though, i would also presume that the peace talks with GOD/CSN/Legacy and FHU also had the FHU gov present. so, now that we have deconstructed the line you speak of, maybe you can see the fallacy you are speaking about. TiTaN only spoke for DT and FHU. TiTaN did not speak for LoSS and neither did Supa since LoSS has their own gov which are quite competent and do not need the help of any foreign government to help them negotiate. again, i do understand how it would be difficult for CSN, who allows foreign government members to help them negotiate. but that is not typical unless you are a protectorate. **going to add this as i already foresee it coming. no i do not think that Xiph leads CSN, nor do i think that CSN is a puppet of GOD. i am simply stating facts. Xiph did help CSN in negotiations as shown by the logs and verified by CSN gov. i feel that this could be a source of misunderstanding over TiTaN's comment since CSN may have presumed that TiTaN/or Supa spoke on behalf of LoSS which is not true since LoSS has their own government to speak on their behalf. [quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1298261095' post='2640184'] CSN has lowered the rep demands though, so it's not as if they weren't trying to reach a settlement. [/quote] how long did it take CSN to lower said reps though? how many weeks? 2 or 3 iirc. and even then, they have not lowered them all that much. 10k tech total. now if you want to get technical, sure they lowered the total amount by 10k tech. but now it is 30k total that DT has to pay. there is no more outside sources allowed. and actually given this statement by Goose: "No more negotiating. No more middle-men. No more anything. Surrender or burn." from his blog, it appears you are wrong in that they are trying to reach any sort of settlement. "During the period that DT is paying reparations they will not carry standing navies or nuclear arsenals." then there is this line- which to me seems to basically ensure that should DT not be capable of paying off the tech in time, CSN will have a much easier time hitting us. it appears we have 6 months to pay this off so it should not be an issue but we have seen weirder things happen. but basically thinking that this is CSN reaching a reasonable settlement for all involved is ridiculous. [quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298261650' post='2640197'] I'll say openly. I believe we overstepped in asking for reps in the first place. That was a time when DT had the opportunity to show their chops in foreign affairs or simply walk away until we were more reasonable. They did neither. Instead they returned and offered to pay reps. Then the next day, after an OOC attack, they utilized that attack as an excuse to demand white peace and an apology. At that point, there option to be indignant over reps went out the window. They entered a war supposedly to support LoSS and then tried skitter out of it without them after extending their front. At that point they lost the right to be indignant over the reps. They sent messages encouraging our membership to overthrow our government. At other times they sent messages encouraging our membership to join other alliances and disband. At that point, they lost the right to be indignant over the reps. In other words, being indignant over reps is pretty much nonsense at this point. However, I'll say honestly, you aren't required to pay reps to CSN. You can just as easily pay them to the gods of war. You've done so in the last week, I see. You'll do so again in the next week. And don't worry about decomming your nukes and navy. We'll do it for you. Should just take another couple of days to do so. No one is coming to help you. No one is going to give up on reps. No one is going to allow you to make demands in a surrender. Your choices are to pay one way or the other. I actively worked for peace throughout this war, but, frankly, it seems the fastest way to get it at this point is to simply burn you to ash. You can stop it at any point you want, but if I were your membership, I wouldn't bother to hold out hope that your egos will ever be checked. [/quote] your timetable is way off mate. way off. your knowledge about warfare is also quite amusing. seriously, it is. also, you do realize that i have pointed out now how CSN has already lost 3.6 times the tech they are now demanding for themselves. (i am assuming it is 20k tech to Legacy and 10k tech to CSN and ya'll have lost 36k tech total since i am not including the GOD member who has 11k tech that joined ya'll recently as he will most likely head back to GOD once this war is over with) but yes mate, please keep stating how well ya'll are doing and how asking for reps has actually done anything helpful for CSN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaGneT Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1298262834' post='2640211'] Well, considering the reps were Goose's decision and not hers I see how it is completely her fault. Yes, it does. You are just one of the more pig-headed trolls so you aren't going to admit any wrong-doings of your alliance. On that note, I'm done responding to this thread. It's just going in circles of stupidity. [/quote] Surrendering, are we? Let's just say Goose came up with those . . . does that make you and Liz any less complicit by allowing them to be stated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298261650' post='2640197'] I'll say openly. I believe we overstepped in asking for reps in the first place. That was a time when DT had the opportunity to show their chops in foreign affairs or simply walk away until we were more reasonable. They did neither. Instead they returned and offered to pay reps. Then the next day, after an OOC attack, they utilized that attack as an excuse to demand white peace and an apology. At that point, there option to be indignant over reps went out the window. They entered a war supposedly to support LoSS and then tried skitter out of it without them after extending their front. At that point they lost the right to be indignant over the reps. They sent messages encouraging our membership to overthrow our government. At other times they sent messages encouraging our membership to join other alliances and disband. At that point, they lost the right to be indignant over the reps. In other words, being indignant over reps is pretty much nonsense at this point. However, I'll say honestly, you aren't required to pay reps to CSN. You can just as easily pay them to the gods of war. You've done so in the last week, I see. You'll do so again in the next week. And don't worry about decomming your nukes and navy. We'll do it for you. Should just take another couple of days to do so. No one is coming to help you. No one is going to give up on reps. No one is going to allow you to make demands in a surrender. Your choices are to pay one way or the other. I actively worked for peace throughout this war, but, frankly, it seems the fastest way to get it at this point is to simply burn you to ash. You can stop it at any point you want, but if I were your membership, I wouldn't bother to hold out hope that your egos will ever be checked. [/quote] ok, first thing it is quite normal to receive messages from the other side in reference to overthrowing leaders, leaving, surrendering and so forth. Nothing new their. I would happily pay reps to the gods of war over CSN as that entails burning CSN nations aswell unlike the first option Also at this point my nation is not burning at all, unlike the nations I am fighting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believland Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1298261095' post='2640184'] CSN has lowered the rep demands though, so it's not as if they weren't trying to reach a settlement. [/quote] Yes but, they also increased it by demanding that they decom all nukes and navy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1298258655' post='2640135'] I don't think either side should hardball too much. I think DT insisting on white peace for a while wasn't a good move. [/quote] It was goddamned retarded. You don't go over quibbling where the tech will come from to demanding white peace, its just insulting and sends the message you aren't taking negotiations seriously. [quote name='Believland' timestamp='1298264087' post='2640240'] Yes but, they also increased it by demanding that they decom all nukes and navy. [/quote] Oh Lordy no! Not their nukes and navy! What's next their tanks?! Those cretins! Edited February 21, 2011 by TypoNinja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Blake Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Good luck to you, DT. Fought you in "karma" and you seemed like a good lot. Keep fighting the good fight. Silly of CSN to not accept one of the 20k tech options DT suggested, you still get a good amount of tech from an alliance you declared on and it finally ends your (current) PR nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocabia Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1298262937' post='2640214'] somebody's a bit upset things aren't going their way.... [/quote] They aren't. I didn't want to have to grind DT into dust. But I've resigned myself to the realization that the only thing to do here is to simply wage the best war possible. It's frustrating that we have to do this to nations I, on the whole, like. I've had great opponents throughout, and you'll find I've told them so. I imagine it would be a whole lot more frustrating to be losing, but fortunately for me and all the members of my alliance, we don't have to find out what that's like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocabia Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='William Blake' timestamp='1298267537' post='2640307'] Good luck to you, DT. Fought you in "karma" and you seemed like a good lot. Keep fighting the good fight. Silly of CSN to not accept one of the 20k tech options DT suggested, you still get a good amount of tech from an alliance you declared on and it finally ends your (current) PR nightmare. [/quote] Honestly, DT's members are a good lot. They've had a good attitude the entire war. I think myworld et al are a bunch of slimeballs, but their membership is much better than they deserve. They're very good at war-making and coordination. I've been nothing but impressed. The membership is making the best of a bad situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocabia Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 [quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1298263381' post='2640222']your timetable is way off mate. way off. Feel free to correct me. Only, how about this time, you do it with actual quotes and evidence instead "But, but, but, we really didn't mean it" or "but it was someone else's fault." your knowledge about warfare is also quite amusing. seriously, it is. also, you do realize that i have pointed out now how CSN has already lost 3.6 times the tech they are now demanding for themselves. (i am assuming it is 20k tech to Legacy and 10k tech to CSN and ya'll have lost 36k tech total since i am not including the GOD member who has 11k tech that joined ya'll recently as he will most likely head back to GOD once this war is over with) but yes mate, please keep stating how well ya'll are doing and how asking for reps has actually done anything helpful for CSN. [/quote] You assume our goal in reps was to grow our alliance. You're wrong. Our goal in reps was to hamstring yours. And we've done so and continue to do so. Tell me, son, how are we doing on that front? How much NS have you lost per nation since we began our recent blitz? How much more will you lose in the next week? We asked you for tech that would have lowered your NS per nation by a fraction. Instead, we've lowered your NS per nation by a quarter so far and it's ongoing. But, hey, we're totally in the wrong. You know how you can teach us a lesson? Keep whining while we stand on the rubble of your nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaPirate Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 CSN, shut your !@#$%* ass mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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