Imperial Announcement from the New Polar Order

[Uralica]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1287702934' post='2490155']
So I take it no NpO-NPO treaty anytime soon?
[/quote]

I think I would marry a movie star before that ever happened.

(OOC: and I mean that both OOC and IC I'm not exactly Matt Damon, y'know! )

[Thrash]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1287692293' post='2489980']
It's unspeakably rude to allow folks to waste a pretty large amount of time trying to get you protected while you've already got something worked out somewhere else. And that we had to learn about it on the OWF.
[/quote]

I'm gonna echo this.

[Moridin]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1287702469' post='2490147']
[color="#ff0000"]Have you looked at your alliance lately? Do you have any clue what the average alliance seniority for the Minister in all 4 ministries is?

1155.25 days

OR

3.165 years

And you still beleive Polaris is purely a meritocracy? You have got to be kidding me.[/color]
[/quote]

Off the top of my head, I can think of at least three past Ministers who reached the position with somewhat less than a year of seniority - not counting, of course, all the Ministers from the early months of the four-Ministry system where nobody had a year of seniority. I don't doubt there are more that do not immediately come to mind. The reason the Ministers often tend to be older members is because talented and active members tend to stick around the alliance a long time, and these are the same qualities that are valuable in government positions.

What some people seem to perceive as an oligarchical system is simply a system that vets members aspiring to government positions. There have been an enormous number of talented folks that have been in Polar that never made it to government positions, simply because it's reasonable to want them to prove themselves as an asset before moving up the ranks. "Merit" is not only ability or talent; there is also a component of being someone who [i]deserves[/i] the position, and the more an individual does for the alliance, the more they merit a government appointment.

Polaris of course is not purely a meritocracy, most Ministers only reach the position after being a Deputy Minister, which carries all the populism of a democracy with it. Still, declaring it an oligarchy simply because the people who merit a position are the people who have given the most for the alliance is disingenuous at best.

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1287702469' post='2490147']
[color="#FF0000"]Red annoying stuff
[/color][/quote]
Polaris is an alliance that values loyalty and trust. Those are things that are built up over time. Considering our past, I would not say that those are things that can be undervalued, and are certainly on equal footing with merit. Where, exactly, is our fault?

[DictatatorDan]

[quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1287703450' post='2490165']
Off the top of my head, I can think of at least three past Ministers who reached the position with somewhat less than a year of seniority - not counting, of course, all the Ministers from the early months of the four-Ministry system where nobody had a year of seniority. I don't doubt there are more that do not immediately come to mind. The reason the Ministers often tend to be older members is because talented and active members tend to stick around the alliance a long time, and these are the same qualities that are valuable in government positions.

What some people seem to perceive as an oligarchical system is simply a system that vets members aspiring to government positions. There have been an enormous number of talented folks that have been in Polar that never made it to government positions, simply because it's reasonable to want them to prove themselves as an asset before moving up the ranks. "Merit" is not only ability or talent; there is also a component of being someone who [i]deserves[/i] the position, and the more an individual does for the alliance, the more they merit a government appointment.

Polaris of course is not purely a meritocracy, most Ministers only reach the position after being a Deputy Minister, which carries all the populism of a democracy with it. Still, declaring it an oligarchy simply because the people who merit a position are the people who have given the most for the allaince senority is disingenuous at best.
[/quote]


[color="#FF0000"]There was something that was lost in translation between what I mean and the meaning I have communicated. I do not mean to say that, Polar is a pure Oligarchy, but rather that the structure at the very top functions more or less like one. The prospect of becomming a "Minister" within Polaris is out of reach of most members, simply because they lack, and will always lack that component of allianceseniority that a few others possess regardless of the quality of work they produce.

The component of seniority is also not neccesarily tied to being in Polaris for a set period of time either. Before either of us left Polaris, the Ministry of Science was formulated to reward others who had held senior positions in [i]other[/i] allliances. Coursca would not have advanced within Polaris at nearly the pace he did, and be trusted with as much responsibilities as he was, if it was not for the simple fact that he was a former IRON Council member.

It would be misleading to simplfy my argument to the point of Alliance Seniority = High Govt. Position, because that is not exactly the case. The reality though is, that when it comes to the selection of government officials, seniority does play a large part these days, and is the determining factor of who gets the job, and who doesn't get the job.[/color]

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1287702469' post='2490147']
[color="#FF0000"]Have you looked at your alliance lately? Do you have any clue what the average alliance seniority for the Minister in all 4 ministries is?

1155.25 days

OR

3.165 years

And you still beleive Polaris is purely a meritocracy? You have got to be kidding me.[/color]
[/quote]

You're getting bogged down here in your own (fairly rigid, it seems) conception of merit. It's not hard to understand why Polar in particular would value loyalty and longevity in people it puts in positions of responsibility, given the problems we've had both recently and farther back.

[pd73bassman]

[quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1287628994' post='2489220']
Hello. As Imperial Regent Dajobo said, our beloved Emperor Penguin has decided it was time to step down. After deliberation it was decided that I was the best choice to lead Polaris into the future. With my years of service to the Order and extensive training in Sexual Healing I am of a unique breed. Capable of warring and loving. Of making decisions sober and heavily intoxicated. Of bringing the nuclear bombs and bringing the Unlimited Love. For to be Polar is to thrive in all conditions. Let's get it on. we can take it.

I welcome all who would have questions or doubts to skip the gossip circles and stop by the Polar forums, or otherwise look me up. My Regent Dajobo and Minister of Truth Carfre Inpor are also excellent methods to get in touch.

Because Emperor Random loves you just the way you are.
[/quote]


Congrats Random, can't actually believe it took you this long to be the Man but you deserve it, good to see some old blood Polar at the helm. Also your Ministry of Truth guys are inactive big time, crickets are in our embassy
Go get them

o/

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='pd73bassman' timestamp='1287705482' post='2490198']
Congrats Random, can't actually believe it took you this long to be the Man but you deserve it, good to see some old blood Polar at the helm. Also your Ministry of Truth guys are inactive big time, crickets are in our embassy
Go get them

o/
[/quote]

Maybe we just don't like you.

[pd73bassman]

[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1287705698' post='2490199']
Maybe we just don't like you.
[/quote]


Well I have never liked you

[Moridin]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1287704911' post='2490185']
There was something that was lost in translation between what I mean and the meaning I have communicated. I do not mean to say that, Polar is a pure Oligarchy, but rather that the structure at the very top functions more or less like one. The prospect of becomming a "Minister" within Polaris is out of reach of most members, simply because they lack, and will always lack that component of allianceseniority that a few others possess regardless of the quality of work they produce.

The component of seniority is also not neccesarily tied to being in Polaris for a set period of time either. Before either of us left Polaris, the Ministry of Science was formulated to reward others who had held senior positions in other allliances. Coursca would not have advanced within Polaris at nearly the pace he did, and be trusted with as much responsibilities as he was, if it was not for the simple fact that he was a former IRON Council member.

It would be misleading to simplfy my argument to the point of Alliance Seniority = High Govt. Position, because that is not exactly the case. The reality though is, that when it comes to the selection of government officials, seniority does play a large part these days, and is the determining factor of who gets the job, and who doesn't get the job.
[/quote]

It's not out of reach unless something has drastically changed since I was last there. It's difficult, certainly, and that's to be expected given the scarcity of government positions relative to the number of members in the alliance. When there are 30 or 40 people who are all active, holding multiple middle management jobs in the alliance, and performing them relatively well, the simple fact is that a lot of people are not going to end up getting promoted. It becomes a competition for who can demonstrate their talent and loyalty to the greatest extent (and indeed popularity, in the case of Deputy Minister elections), and a lot of talented people are going to miss out. Length of time in the alliance is certainly a factor, as it should be, though it's far from the only factor; the trouble comes when you have two equally qualified candidates for an appointment, but one has greater seniority - there's not really any reason to pick the newer one. So, in the constant competition for higher positions, the people with higher seniority do tend to win out. This doesn't mean an exceptionally talented person is not going to be able to make it if they're relatively new, and I can certainly remember a few people standing out and being promoted accordingly.

[askani the rotund]

[quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1287644841' post='2489558']
Are you thinking of Ursarkar? If memory serves, Askani left Polar for NPO around the time of the Sponge coup.
[/quote]
Yes, Your memory is pretty good.I left about 5-7 days before.Had to be someone else.

Edited October 22, 2010 by askani the rotund

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1287692293' post='2489980']
Who is protecting them?

Edit. Ahh. I see.

That's pretty rude. Grumpp and Lennox came to STA and asked us to protect the new alliance. We've spent the last few days discussing it amongst ourselves and with Polar. We've put quite a lot of time into discussing it and finding a way to make it work, with the last discussion with CF concluding with them agreeing to show us a sample charter and that we would be discussing it. It's unspeakably rude to allow folks to waste a pretty large amount of time trying to get you protected while you've already got something worked out somewhere else. And that we had to learn about it on the OWF.
[/quote]
Nothing wrong with multiple protectors. Though you should probably mention that you had additional coverage in the works...

Edited October 22, 2010 by Arcturus Jefferson

[DictatatorDan]

[quote name='Zombie Glaucon' timestamp='1287705254' post='2490192']
You're getting bogged down here in your own (fairly rigid, it seems) conception of merit. It's not hard to understand why Polar in particular would value loyalty and longevity in people it puts in positions of responsibility, given the problems we've had both recently and farther back.
[/quote]
[color="#FF0000"]Iknorite?

What an exciting surprise that some of the higher level members would decide to create their own alliance. Im still laughing at how utterly ironic it is.[/color]

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1287702469' post='2490147']
[color="#FF0000"]Have you looked at your alliance lately? Do you have any clue what the average alliance seniority for the Minister in all 4 ministries is?

1155.25 days

OR

3.165 years

And you still beleive Polaris is purely a meritocracy? You have got to be kidding me.[/color]
[/quote]

Color me confused. I know you're trying to make some people think less of Polar for this, but after reading this I'm thinking "Dang, Polar has some really dedicated, and experienced government."

[Moridin]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1287721016' post='2490409']Iknorite?

What an exciting surprise that some of the higher level members would decide to create their own alliance. Im still laughing at how utterly ironic it is.[/quote]

I don't follow. What's ironic about it?

[Fireandthepassion]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1287702469' post='2490147']
[color="#FF0000"]Have you looked at your alliance lately? Do you have any clue what the average alliance seniority for the Minister in all 4 ministries is?

1155.25 days

OR

3.165 years

And you still beleive Polaris is purely a meritocracy? You have got to be kidding me.[/color]
[/quote]

You do realize that NPO doesn't turn over their ministers like that right? In fact, I'm pretty sure their ministers are tenured members of their alliance. I'm not going to bother with trying to find who their ministers are, or how long they have been apart of NPO. I'm just trying to find your point here, and I'm not seeing it. So? They're senior members of the alliance who served the alliance for a long time. I think that qualifies as having the ability and talents to be in power. People get promotion based on their work. You do the work you get rewarded.

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1287704911' post='2490185']
There was something that was lost in translation between what I mean and the meaning I have communicated. I do not mean to say that, Polar is a pure Oligarchy, but rather that the structure at the very top functions more or less like one. The prospect of becomming a "Minister" within Polaris is out of reach of most members, simply because they lack, and will always lack that component of allianceseniority that a few others possess regardless of the quality of work they produce.

The component of seniority is also not neccesarily tied to being in Polaris for a set period of time either. Before either of us left Polaris, the Ministry of Science was formulated to reward others who had held senior positions in [i]other[/i] allliances. Coursca would not have advanced within Polaris at nearly the pace he did, and be trusted with as much responsibilities as he was, if it was not for the simple fact that he was a former IRON Council member.

It would be misleading to simplfy my argument to the point of Alliance Seniority = High Govt. Position, because that is not exactly the case. The reality though is, that when it comes to the selection of government officials, seniority does play a large part these days, and is the determining factor of who gets the job, and who doesn't get the job.
[/quote]

So you just defeated your own argument at the end, and at the begining. Seniority doesn't mean crap. If they put in the work they're more likely to be recognized than others that aren't doing the work. If that's promotion in their job, or by being elected deputy minister.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Fireandthepassion

[Captain Flinders]

I thought Random was already the Emperor, so I'm glad to hear that my perception has become reality. I love when that happens.

[LOLtex]

I like this news!

[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1287704505' post='2490176']
Polaris is an alliance that values loyalty and trust. Those are things that are built up over time. Considering our past, I would not say that those are things that can be undervalued, and are certainly on equal footing with merit. Where, exactly, is our fault?
[/quote]

Epic post.

[Duncan King]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1287630358' post='2489268']
Hi Crymson

The saddest thing is we are all laughing at you again. So bitter and twisted these days.

Also hello, I am now Minister of Peace.
[/quote]
Dear admin. Try to stay on one side of the next war.

Penguin was a nice dose of actual competence after you. Random is a huge step back. The few times I've interacted with him, I haven't been impressed by his competence. He always seemed rash and, well, undiplomatic. But I freely admit that that twas pre WoTc, so he may have matured a bit.

Hats off to Penguin for being the competent leader that NpO needed, even if you picked a questionable successor. Enjoy retirement.

Edit: and very bad show to Crimson Fist for planning their new AA while still in government and not telling the rest of the government about it. Transparency and honesty is always the best in these situations and not telling just leaves hurt feelings.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Duncan King

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1287741179' post='2490524']
Dear admin. Try to stay on one side of the next war.

Penguin was a nice dose of actual competence after you. Random is a huge step back. The few times I've interacted with him, I haven't been impressed by his competence. He always seemed rash and, well, undiplomatic. But I freely admit that that twas pre WoTc, so he may have matured a bit.

Hats off to Penguin for being the competent leader that NpO needed, even if you picked a questionable successor. Enjoy retirement.

Edit: and very bad show to Crimson Fist for planning their new AA while still in government and not telling the rest of the government about it. Transparency and honesty is always the best in these situations and not telling just leaves hurt feelings.
[/quote]

I think we need someone a bit less diplomatic, things are awfully stagnant these days. Let's get some friction going perhaps? Instead of useless leaders resolving every single issue 'peacefully' because they're too afraid of the consequences of their actions should they decide to actually take a stand on something.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Johnny Apocalypse

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1287741179' post='2490524']
Dear admin. Try to stay on one side of the next war.[/quote]

No chance of me doing anything to please you or anyone else like you. I have never cared what you think and I am unlikely to start now. If you haven't worked out what really happened by now you are incredibly dense.... I suspect that is the case for most of you however.

[quote]Penguin was a nice dose of actual competence after you. Random is a huge step back. The few times I've interacted with him, I haven't been impressed by his competence. He always seemed rash and, well, undiplomatic. But I freely admit that that twas pre WoTc, so he may have matured a bit.[/quote]

You are so far from the mark is is laughable. Random does not tolerate fools, you fall firmly into that category, therefore expect him to be extremely rude to you. If I remember who you are tomorrow I will be rude to you as well. The whole notion of diplomacy is not holding hands and singing love songs to everyone you meet, perhaps his honesty is too confronting for you.

[quote]Hats off to Penguin for being the competent leader that NpO needed, even if you picked a questionable successor. [/quote]

Penguin is a very cool and talented guy. Your opinion of him is valid and he was exactly what we needed at the time. This is a different time and something different is required. I happen to like Random as Emperor, a lot. I also really like the fact that a whole bunch of gutless wonders are happy to be unhappy about it. I am also confident that between the whole lot of the Random haters you couldn't start a fire with two matches and a can of petrol. We will be where we always are, waiting for you to actually do something... as usual.

Edited October 22, 2010 by AlmightyGrub

[Voytek]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1287752813' post='2490578']
No chance of me doing anything to please you or anyone else like you. I have never cared what you think and I am unlikely to start now. If you haven't worked out what really happened by now you are incredibly dense.... I suspect that is the case for most of you however.



You are so far from the mark is is laughable. Random does not tolerate fools, you fall firmly into that category, therefore expect him to be extremely rude to you. If I remember who you are tomorrow I will be rude to you as well. The whole notion of diplomacy is not holding hands and singing love songs to everyone you meet, perhaps his honesty is too confronting for you.



Penguin is a very cool and talented guy. Your opinion of him is valid and he was exactly what we needed at the time. This is a different time and something different is required. I happen to like Random as Emperor, a lot. I also really like the fact that a whole bunch of gutless wonders are happy to be unhappy about it. I am also confident that between the whole lot of the Random haters you couldn't start a fire with two matches and a can of petrol. We will be where we always are, waiting for you to actually do something... as usual.
[/quote]
Yeah! You sure told him!!

[Duncan King]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1287752592' post='2490574']
I think we need someone a bit less diplomatic, things are awfully stagnant these days. Let's get some friction going perhaps? Instead of useless leaders resolving every single issue 'peacefully' because they're too afraid of the consequences of their actions should they decide to actually take a stand on something.
[/quote]
That depends on how you conduct your affairs. I, for one, hate it when the immature Halo freaks among us start a war because they're bored.

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1287752813' post='2490578']
No chance of me doing anything to please you or anyone else like you. I have never cared what you think and I am unlikely to start now. If you haven't worked out what really happened by now you are incredibly dense.... I suspect that is the case for most of you however.
...
You are so far from the mark is is laughable. Random does not tolerate fools, you fall firmly into that category, therefore expect him to be extremely rude to you. If I remember who you are tomorrow I will be rude to you as well. The whole notion of diplomacy is not holding hands and singing love songs to everyone you meet, perhaps his honesty is too confronting for you.

Penguin is a very cool and talented guy. Your opinion of him is valid and he was exactly what we needed at the time. This is a different time and something different is required. I happen to like Random as Emperor, a lot. I also really like the fact that a whole bunch of gutless wonders are happy to be unhappy about it. I am also confident that between the whole lot of the Random haters you couldn't start a fire with two matches and a can of petrol. We will be where we always are, waiting for you to actually do something... as usual.
[/quote]
That's okay, You have never been relevant to me. I can't name one meaningful thing that you have done other than switch sides mid war. I'm okay with not being known for a blunder on the level of going in against a Sicilian when death is on the line. I'm fine with you not knowing me, it means I can't be screwed by you.

As for your alliance, I wish the, good luck on the transition. Changing leaders can be difficult, especially in an empire.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Duncan King

[Farnsworth]

Has it already been 8 months?

Best of luck under the new emperor, NpO.

[Proximo]

Congrats, hope Random is as fun as ES!