The Opening of Pandora's Box

[Denial]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1286904642' post='2482600']
The people who told the joke are mocking the subjects of it. And granted, there will always be suckers for such nonsense, but it doesn't really make it funny to anyone besides yourselves. It stopped being funny a while ago, now it's more annoying than anything. Especially when you can only draw a response by poorly hinting at the 'joke' several times first, and then you proceed to mock anyone who bothers to respond to your 'hints.'
[/quote]
So we can simultaneously entertain ourselves and annoy you and your ilk? It sounds like the best of both worlds.

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1286905141' post='2482611']
Would you let them or would they be crushed at the slightest hint of a conversation regarding such a thing being mooted? With most of the world and the big 3 blocs of PB/C&G/SF all on the same side of the world a proper opposition is obviously not something thats wanted. After 18 months of inaction & curbstomps it looks like another 18 months of inaction & curbstomps is on the cards unless the three blocs question and their respective entourages part ways. The losers in the last war six months ago are still under terms so you should get back to reality and realise there will be no opposition to this super bloc of three blocs.
[/quote]
Firstly, do you see any of the alliances present in the #stratego discussions being crushed? Secondly, in the last 18 months we have had two entirely world-changing major wars, with a couple of near-misses. If you desire more conflict, I would recommend you assemble all your incompetent friends and start devising some sort of effective strategy beyond screaming about injustice that doesn't exist and fighting invisible monsters. Lastly, being an effective opposition is never just about relying on those alliances that are already fully committed to your cause; rather, it is about putting pressure on the weakspots of the dominant force and persuading peripheral alliances over to your side.

[Ivan Moldavi]

Wow, two whole wars in a year and a half? Amazing.

[Jakome]

Can we get a recount on these sin assignments. I'm pretty sure Umbrella wins the fat kid award
[img]http://i56.tinypic.com/263v59w.jpg[/img]

[Denial]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1286939601' post='2483151']
Wow, two whole wars in a year and a half? Amazing.
[/quote]
Two wars that changed the face of the Cyberverse where the results were by no means determined before the first shots were fired. Compared to the era of the Hegemony, which while comprised of more wars, those conflicts were pre-determined with the opponents severely outnumbered. The former provided entertainment and political dynamism for a sustained period of time, whereas the latter only contributed a small, short-lived buzz for the alliances that were fabricating the justification upon which they curbstomped others.

Again, as I said to Alterego, if you want more conflict, get your !@#$ together and bring it.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1286939987' post='2483154']
Two wars that changed the face of the Cyberverse where the results were by no means determined before the first shots were fired. Compared to the era of the Hegemony, which while comprised of more wars, those conflicts were pre-determined with the opponents severely outnumbered. The former provided entertainment and political dynamism for a sustained period of time, whereas the latter only contributed a small, short-lived buzz for the alliances that were fabricating the justification upon which they curbstomped others.

Again, as I said to Alterego, if you want more conflict, get your !@#$ together and bring it.
[/quote]
*rollseyes*

First, I have no guns.

Second, anyone that knows anything about this place knows that if I did have guns, they would be firing. That is just how it is.

Considering that the term "hegemony" can refer to myriad social/economic/militaristic structures don't you believe it is time to perhaps give up the concept in the context from which you are utilizing it? The apparatus you describe has not existed coherently in nearly two years. And the one that has replaced it is every bit as capable of pushing the same forms of "atrocities" as those you bemoan when it suits them. I speak on that from experience.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1286933528' post='2483068']
That was because it would have been utterly idiotic aggression and that usually gets people to join the other side. (See: Karma.) Although ODN now had that treaty cancelled, I'm pretty sure that C&G would get swung into action behind any of its allies that got attacked. And MHA isn't tied to 'everyone', in fact only Umbrella of PB and R&R (and until recently Fark) of SF have a treaty with them. But the fact that you said 'that side of the web' means that, in the words of my previous post, you are still stuck looking at the old world dichotomy of 'NPO vs LUE', and think that we're all part of one big united force against you.
[/quote]


The fact is there still is a "that side of the web" it's monsterous. All 3 blocs are tied to each other and MHA, FARK and Sparta, the three big non-bloc alliances are tied right in as well. Throw in treatyless MK, who pretty clearly are BFF with PB/C&G and you have a massive amount of the non-neutral strength that will most likely fight under one banner when the next global curb stomp comes down the pike.

Unless one of the blocs breaks away from it's previous FA stance, it's one monsterous side of the web and several small factions sitting together wondering which will be the next one rolled. That isn't in any way surprising, or even wrong. It worked great for NPO and the balance of those currently in power were great friends of Pax Pacifica.

At least a few people in this thread finally admitted they were all for doing it the NPO way. It's the denial of others who've always did it that way that gets to me.

[King Louis the II]

[quote name='Velocity111' timestamp='1286937200' post='2483125']
o/ PC
o/ PB

[img]http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/6831/pandorabox.png[/img]
[/quote]

Thats is really funny,,,,


congrats

[Denial]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1286940236' post='2483158']
*rollseyes*

First, I have no guns.

Second, anyone that knows anything about this place knows that if I did have guns, they would be firing. That is just how it is.

Considering that the term "hegemony" can refer to myriad social/economic/militaristic structures don't you believe it is time to perhaps give up the concept in the context from which you are utilizing it? The apparatus you describe has not existed coherently in nearly two years. And the one that has replaced it is every bit as capable of pushing the same forms of "atrocities" as those you bemoan when it suits them. I speak on that from experience.
[/quote]
Capable? Yes. Has the dominant force done that? No. The only experience you speak from is creating an alliance that is so short-sighted and plagued by incompetence that rather than devise a plan and set some goals that may lead to success, you try and 'taunt' larger alliances by doing idiotic things like aiding rogue nations. Great job!

And to use your analogy, if you don't have 'guns', and aren't attempting to get some 'guns', then you are really in no place to be criticising how those that do possess guns are using them. Stop demanding that your betters fight themselves for your entertainment. If you want entertainment, create some. Either by bringing the fight to your betters, or hey, how about all you fine gentlemen complaining about the 'stagnant Cyberverse' fight amongst yourselves? Or maybe are you attempting (rather poorly) to utilise the idea of 'stagnancy' and the 'lack of conflict' as a political tool?

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1286940556' post='2483166']
Capable? Yes. Has the dominant force done that? No. The only experience you speak from is creating an alliance that is so short-sighted and plagued by incompetence that rather than devise a plan and set some goals that may lead to success, you try and 'taunt' larger alliances by doing idiotic things like aiding rogue nations. Great job!

And to use your analogy, if you don't have 'guns', and aren't attempting to get some 'guns', then you are really in no place to be criticising how those that do possess guns are using them. Stop demanding that your betters fight themselves for your entertainment. If you want entertainment, create some. Either by bringing the fight to your betters, or hey, how about all you fine gentlemen complaining about the 'stagnant Cyberverse' fight amongst yourselves? Or maybe are you attempting (rather poorly) to utilise the idea of 'stagnancy' and the 'lack of conflict' as a political tool?
[/quote]
First, I haven't seen anyone post around here that I would consider my "better" in a very long time. I am an egotistical, arrogant sociopath that manipulates people for my personal entertainment when I am bored - finding my equal among the befuddled masses is no small task. But keep trying.

Second, I made no demands whatsoever. You highlighted that having two major conflicts in a year and a half was somehow an exceptional exploit on the part of the stat collectors currently running the Cyberverse. I made a sarcastic comment because I believe such an evaluation to be "shortsighted and plagued by incompetence" from the point of view of those that like to think that those that "possess guns" actually should use them.

The experience that I speak from is having nearly a decade of actionable effectiveness in venues such as this where I have observed and created multiple situations that drove the underlying currents of the realm at large, sometimes for good, mainly not, always to be entertaining. In regards to your specific point, I would simply counter that by asking what you ever did independently without someone else holding your hand that you can show for it. I have three fine examples in my signature, each of which I am proud of here. The fact that an alliance can make a mistake, take a real beating and still stand proud is a sign of something better than just having the most guns at this particular point in history anyway, in my opinion. The number of guns can change over time, integrity and resolve rarely do.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1286940236' post='2483158']
*rollseyes*

First, I have no guns.

Second, anyone that knows anything about this place knows that if I did have guns, they would be firing. That is just how it is.
[/quote]

Oh spare me. You had guns for a year and all you did was suck up to your betters and attack RAD (badass I know).

And congrats GOONS, Umbrella, PC, VE, FOK, and iFOK

Edited October 13, 2010 by Mr Damsky

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1286923703' post='2482923']
That's a very good short form. Hopefully everyone reads it and remembers it. If PB, SF and C&G were in fact one megabloc, then we would be in a hegemonic position. But we're not, as was pointed out earlier we don't have any shared members (like Continuum/One Vision) or major interconnected treaties. (Pretty much everyone was treatied to the Continuum; not that many people are directly treatied to PB.) If you persist in believing in the old world dichotomy of 'NPO vs LUE' then sure, the 'LUE' side – everything that isn't a close friend of NPO – is huge, overbearing and hegemonic. But things aren't like that any more.
[/quote]

you guys do have major interconnected treaties with SF, CnG, and Aztec blocs. VE has treaties with SF alliances (did you forget your MADP with GOD- Not to mention due to the MADP plus the MDoAP with RIA: you could bring in Chestnut Accords bloc), or the MDoAP with RoK, plus your MDoAP with NV who is in a MADP Bloc). FOK is in LEO with RnR/Int, Athens has an MDoAP with PC, GOONS holds MDoAPs with LOST and GOD,

Then there is MHA, Fark, Argent, WF, NEW, and Guru Order as direct treaties. then you have several indirect treaties with alliances like Sparta along with others, like IAA, LoSS, GATO, NpO, STA, and others.

so you have heavy and direct connections to SF, CnG, Aztec, Chestnut Accords, and LEO. along with the fact that LEO is overlapping due to FOK being in both LEO and PB. Chestnut Accords overlap with SF. so if you description of being hegemonic is the world of Q or WUT in which Q or WUT was the center of other major blocs, well that is pretty much what PB is considering it can call on many blocs to surround it just like Q or WUT did.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1286941273' post='2483178']
Oh spare me. You had guns for a year and all you did was suck up to your betters and attack RAD (badass I know).
[/quote]
Again, please point out these "betters" you speak of.

And having control of a third tier alliance, even if somewhat influential with a few larger ones, is not what I mean in the analogy. I apologize if it was too complex for you. I thought a four word explanation would be simple enough, I was mistaken.

[Stumpy Jung Il]

You know what I think the problem is? The current opposition is too incompetent, unorganized, and impatient to actually form any sort of counter. I was opposed to NPO hegemony for more than 2 years and eventually saw my side win out. In the end, our side played on the mistakes of an enemy and used our Foreign Policy ability to overcome them in strength of allies and dissolve their coalition. The best your side has done in 18 months is fall flat on your face in the TOP war because of how horribly incompetent your strategy was and then join together in #stratego and flail about like a bunch of infants. For God sakes if you want Bob to be more interesting then start [b]working[/b] towards making it so. I know I already have. Its your turn.

Also, this is not directed at anyone in particular, just tired of all the crying about a Hegemony that doesn't actually even exist.

/End old man rant.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' timestamp='1286941453' post='2483183']
You know what I think the problem is? The current opposition is too incompetent, unorganized, and impatient to actually form any sort of counter. I was opposed to NPO hegemony for more than 2 years and eventually saw my side win out. In the end, our side played on the mistakes of an enemy and used our Foreign Policy ability to overcome them in strength of allies and dissolve their coalition. The best your side has done in 18 months is fall flat on your face in the TOP war because of how horribly incompetent your strategy was and then join together in #stratego and flail about like a bunch of infants. For God sakes if you want Bob to be more interesting then start [b]working[/b] towards making it so. I know I already have. Its your turn.

Also, this is not directed at anyone in particular, just tired of all the crying about a Hegemony that doesn't actually even exist.

/End old man rant.
[/quote]
I think for the first time in four (or so) years, I agree with you.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1286941411' post='2483182']
Again, please point out these "betters" you speak of.
[/quote]

I'll spell it out for you. N-e-w P-o-l-a-r O-r-d-e-r.

[Denial]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1286941030' post='2483173']
First, I haven't seen anyone post around here that I would consider my "better" in a very long time. I am an egotistical, arrogant sociopath that manipulates people for my personal entertainment when I am bored - finding my equal among the befuddled masses is no small task. But keep trying.

Second, I made no demands whatsoever. You highlighted that having two major conflicts in a year and a half was somehow an exceptional exploit on the part of the stat collectors currently running the Cyberverse. I made a sarcastic comment because I believe such an evaluation to be "shortsighted and plagued by incompetence" from the point of view of those that like to think that those that "possess guns" actually should use them.

The experience that I speak from is having nearly a decade of actionable effectiveness in venues such as this where I have observed and created multiple situations that drove the underlying currents of the realm at large, sometimes for good, mainly not, always to be entertaining. In regards to your specific point, I would simply counter that by asking what you ever did independently without someone else holding your hand that you can show for it. I have three fine examples in my signature, each of which I am proud of here. The fact that an alliance can make a mistake, take a real beating and still stand proud is a sign of something better than just having the most guns at this particular point in history anyway, in my opinion. The number of guns can change over time, integrity and resolve rarely do.
[/quote]
You make me laugh, I'll give you that. Though somehow I don't think that's your intention.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1286941541' post='2483187']
I'll spell it out for you. N-e-w P-o-l-a-r O-r-d-e-r.
[/quote]
I see. Well considering that I created the New Polar Order and am still a member of that alliance I will take that as praise.

Yes, indeed, I would consider myself at some stages to be better than myself at others.

Thanks.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1286941591' post='2483188']
You make me laugh, I'll give you that. Though somehow I don't think that's your intention.
[/quote]
At least we both have qualities that the other finds entertaining.

Mine just happen to come with reasoned responses as well.

[Stumpy Jung Il]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1286941521' post='2483186']
I think for the first time in four (or so) years, I agree with you.
[/quote]
Well this is awkward. Do you want me to call you a cab or something?

Edited October 13, 2010 by Stumpy Jung Il

[Reptyler]

Ivan, as a starry-eyed CN recruit learning the ropes of CN politics, I never thought I'd see the day where your name didn't command respect and fear. But here it is. Funny how we all grow up to find disappointments like that. Now where is my Moldavi Triathlon sig?

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1286941617' post='2483189']
I see. Well considering that I created the New Polar Order and am still a member of that alliance I will take that as praise.

Yes, indeed, I would consider myself at some stages to be better than myself at others.

Thanks.
[/quote]


I don't see how any of that changes the fact that you sucked up to Polar but I guess it all makes sense...in your mind.

[hizzy]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1286941315' post='2483179']
you guys do have major interconnected treaties with SF, CnG, and Aztec blocs. VE has treaties with SF alliances (did you forget your MADP with GOD- Not to mention due to the MADP plus the MDoAP with RIA: you could bring in Chestnut Accords bloc), or the MDoAP with RoK, plus your MDoAP with NV who is in a MADP Bloc). FOK is in LEO with RnR/Int, Athens has an MDoAP with PC, GOONS holds MDoAPs with LOST and GOD,

Then there is MHA, Fark, Argent, WF, NEW, and Guru Order as direct treaties. then you have several indirect treaties with alliances like Sparta along with others, like IAA, LoSS, GATO, NpO, STA, and others.

so you have heavy and direct connections to SF, CnG, Aztec, Chestnut Accords, and LEO. along with the fact that LEO is overlapping due to FOK being in both LEO and PB. Chestnut Accords overlap with SF. so if you description of being hegemonic is the world of Q or WUT in which Q or WUT was the center of other major blocs, well that is pretty much what PB is considering it can call on many blocs to surround it just like Q or WUT did.
[/quote]

If I can make one thing clear regarding anyone's ties to Nueva Vida;

all our treaties (except AZTEC, of course) are non-chaining. This was done specifically so that we wouldn't have to pick and choose our friends' friends. Whatever our feelings are for VE, they do not necessarily extend to VE's allies. You gotta be out of your mind if you think we're going to let anyone use our treaty with them bring us and our AZTEC friends in to help some bozo in GOONS.

[nippy]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1286941617' post='2483189']
I see. Well considering that I created the New Polar Order and am still a member of that alliance I will take that as praise.

Yes, indeed, I would consider myself at some stages to be better than myself at others.

Thanks.
[/quote]
This is classic Moldavi. I've missed posts like these.

[quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' timestamp='1286941729' post='2483194']
Well this is awkward. Do you want me to call you a cab or something?
[/quote]
My coffee took flight.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Reptyler' timestamp='1286941900' post='2483196']
Ivan, as a starry-eyed CN recruit learning the ropes of CN politics, I never thought I'd see the day where your name didn't command respect and fear. But here it is. Funny how we all grow up to find disappointments like that. Now where is my Moldavi Triathlon sig?
[/quote]
As someone that has never considered the feelings of my detractors in my actions or my statements I can confidently say that I do not care at all if you wish to espouse some fleeting wistfulness in regards to past accomplishments in this realm.

If I am getting a response at all that means it is working. The fact that I know I have no alliance to command, no coalition to send to the trenches and no active influence to affect change in the Cyberverse really doesn't mean I can't speak my opinion on the current state of affairs. The fact that you and your cadre feel the need to reply at all implies that my own estimations might be in error.

So sure, please continue to go on about how I used to be this or that or how I used to command this or that while avoiding the points I make. It only shows your own position in this discussion.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1286941986' post='2483197']
I don't see how any of that changes the fact that you sucked up to Polar but I guess it all makes sense...in your mind.
[/quote]
If you were correct in stating that "fact" then you might have a point. But you don't. Anyone in the Polar government can tell you very quickly exactly how much I suck up to anyone in any venue. I speak my mind in all instances, for good or ill.

When you speak from a position of a lack of knowledge, such as you are doing here, you score no points.

Or were you an Imperial Advisor in Polar at one point in the last four years and I have just forgotten you?