United Purple Nations Announcement

[nippy]

I like how Schattenmann feels compelled to lead every anti-GOONS event that occurs on Bob, no matter how irrelevant he is to the subject matter. When are you people going to learn to speak for yourselves and tell him to shut up? It's pretty pathetic that people are willing to let him speak for them like they have the intellectual incapacity to do such a thing.

[potato]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1286817835' post='2481611']
Incorrect again. UOKMB has disbanded and scattered to thewind. Do they owe GOONS some money? Sure. Is the way to go about that to go attacking them without consulting UPN. Absolutely not. However, GOONS did this twice. UPN came to an agreement with GOONS on the first ex-UOKMB after GOONS attacked him while a member of UPN. Even though UPN had shown a willingness to work with GOONS on ex-UOKMB, they went right back to attacking a second member of UPN. Then tey declared war on a 100-day member of UPN. The situation is a creation of GOONS in its entirety. It's all possible because they know that someonewith real power like you will come along and go "woah woah woah, UPN, cough up." You're sitting here like some oracle when you don't even know the events that happened. , and its sickening because for so long I had the imression you weren't some mouthpiece yes-man. "Hrrrrm, UPN sucks and there are some funny clip-job logs on the OWF, GOONS is auto-right."

UPN accepted 2 members who had no wars from a disbanded alliance. Rather than attempt to fix the situation with UPN, GOONS sideswiped the two mebers, then demanded money or else. The second time they attacked, it was after an agreement had already been reached. As you said, "The one incident was solved long before all this mess to the satisfaction of the involved parties (that UPN nation's and GOONS') until UPN gov't changed their mind. . ." because GOONS continued to attack without notice and proceeded to coincedentally attack a legit member of UPN at the same time all this is happening. [i]How convenient![/i]

I know you and I know how you felt about GOONS who were chased for months after UjW. How is it any different for ex-UOKMB? GOONS attacked them, they fought back, now they've expende themselves and they want to move on. Rather than working with people on it, GOONS goes around attacking post-admission members of alliances.
[/quote]

I don't think I ever said "Hrrrrm, UPN sucks and there are some funny clip-job logs on the OWF, GOONS is auto-right" or anything approaching but feel free to add meanings and/or words to what I'm saying. I made my own opinion based on the full logs (yes, I saw those too).

If you want to compare the situation with ex-GOON from the UjW era, you'll have to keep in mind, that never did I think that changing your AA without getting peace from those you're at war with was acceptable. Since I was in charge for ODN then, I would know exactly how that went down. How GOONS conduct their business is their problem but I don't see how horrible it is to ask for - at least - a surrender from UOKMB's members. Problem is, most of the guys didn't appoach GOONS and just jumped AA without warning. Frankly, it's UPN's fault for accepting people at war.

[Stormsend]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1286818868' post='2481626']
I like how Schattenmann feels compelled to lead every anti-GOONS event that occurs on Bob, no matter how irrelevant he is to the subject matter. When are you people going to learn to speak for yourselves and tell him to shut up? It's pretty pathetic that people are willing to let him speak for them like they have the intellectual incapacity to do such a thing.
[/quote]
I like how insulting someone's intelligence is a lot more worthwhile than addressing the points he or she brings up.

I'm not just calling you out, but everyone in this thread who has decided calling someone stupid is better than debating.

[nippy]

[quote name='Stormsend' timestamp='1286819615' post='2481630']
I like how insulting someone's intelligence is a lot more worthwhile than addressing the points he or she brings up.

I'm not just calling you out, but everyone in this thread who has decided calling someone stupid is better than debating.
[/quote]

I'm under the impression that calling out someone's credentials should happen prior to taking up debate with said person over a topic. I do not consider Schattenmann worthy of my time. He is an uninvolved party and has demonstrated he cannot take an objective stance over events in which my alliance is concerned. He is an anti-GOONS mouthpiece, and nothing more.

[Stormsend]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1286819935' post='2481632']
I'm under the impression that calling out someone's credentials should happen prior to taking up debate with said person over a topic. I do not consider Schattenmann worthy of my time. He is an uninvolved party and has demonstrated he cannot take an objective stance over events in which my alliance is concerned. He is an anti-GOONS mouthpiece, and nothing more.
[/quote]
There is a difference between calling out someone's credentials and calling them "irrelevant," among other insults.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Stormsend

[Gofastleft]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1286777906' post='2481325']
[color="#0000FF"]I hate to say this, but ODN is not the same alliance it was in 2008. They weren't so much afraid to take damage as much as they were reluctant to allow an ally to do something absurdly stupid for no good reason. And quite frankly, if you thought UPN's coalition was a good idea you might need to get your head checked.[/color]
[/quote]

OMG, I actually agree with Rebel Virginia on this one.

Was that a pig that just flew by??

I have had my issues with ODN in the past, well certain people at least, but they have turned things around and do not deserve the rep from past mistakes anymore.

[leprecon]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1286819935' post='2481632']
I'm under the impression that calling out someone's credentials should happen prior to taking up debate with said person over a topic. I do not consider Schattenmann worthy of my time. He is an uninvolved party and has demonstrated he cannot take an objective stance over events in which my alliance is concerned. He is an anti-GOONS mouthpiece, and nothing more.
[/quote]


This is also true with Schattenmann and VE.


Also, I liked this part the best.
[quote]* They also made excuses like "paying more than your remaining infra is PZI somehow, just trust me on this"[/quote]

- BUT IT'S PZI!
= They will get peace if they ask for it. We don't hand out peace to nuke rogues for nothing, the least they can do is show some remorse.
- THAT MEANS ITS PZI! THEY CAN'T PAY THAT MUCH.
= We aren't asking them to pay that much. We want them to ask for peace or we want you guys to pay that much.
- I DON'T AGREE, THAT MEANS ITS PZI!

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1286818883' post='2481627']
I don't think I ever said "Hrrrrm, UPN sucks and there are some funny clip-job logs on the OWF, GOONS is auto-right" or anything approaching but feel free to add meanings and/or words to what I'm saying. I made my own opinion based on the full logs (yes, I saw those too).

If you want to compare the situation with ex-GOON from the UjW era, you'll have to keep in mind, that never did I think that changing your AA without getting peace from those you're at war with was acceptable. Since I was in charge for ODN then, I would know exactly how that went down. How GOONS conduct their business is their problem but I don't see how horrible it is to ask for - at least - a surrender from UOKMB's members. Problem is, most of the guys didn't appoach GOONS and just jumped AA without warning. Frankly, it's UPN's fault for accepting people at war.
[/quote]
You've got 5 or 6 people minding their own business and blindside them, they do what anyone would do and defend themselves. They're ignoran of this wider world and all the hoops set up. When they've got to the end of the rope and look for peace, they have to slog to through [url="http://cngoons.com/Board/index.php?PHPSESSID=qdhcbqeh7ggitr3ea31jbopnm6&board=94.0"]this filth[/url] (warning, links to IC inappropriate content) or face permawar. Big surprise they tried to find an alliance. UPN agrees to pay, then GOONS attacks, anyway. Boy-howdy, what a bunch of warmongering morons!

Edited October 11, 2010 by Schattenmann

[nippy]

[quote name='Stormsend' timestamp='1286820350' post='2481636']
There is a difference between calling out someone's credentials and calling them "irrelevant," among other insults.
[/quote]

How is 'irrelevant' an insult? I believe "having no bearing on or connection with the subject at issue" is a perfect description for Schattenmann in most topics he takes up a crusade with.

[Stormsend]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1286821134' post='2481644']
How is 'irrelevant' an insult? I believe "having no bearing on or connection with the subject at issue" is a perfect description for Schattenmann in most topics he takes up a crusade with.
[/quote]
It's a cop-out response. Irrelevance is irrelevant in discussing what became a global event that everyone has access to the information of. Tell us why he's wrong.

[nippy]

[quote name='Stormsend' timestamp='1286821462' post='2481647']
It's a cop-out response. Irrelevance is irrelevant in discussing what became a global event that everyone has access to the information of. Tell us why he's wrong.
[/quote]

Nope, sorry. If I deem someone irrelevant, they're not worthy of my time. Your saying irrelevance is irrelevant does not make someone relevant. No matter how 'global' this event was, the stinkin' Cult of Justitia and their membership is IRRELEVANT to this subject matter. IRRELEVANT.

[hobbies0310]

[quote name='Epiphanus' timestamp='1286765535' post='2480954']
[b]*ALL IS WELL AT THE UPN FA DEPT*[/b]

"What is that, you say? ODN might be canceling our treaty?"

"OH NO! WE MUST NOT HAVE ANY MORE NEGATIVE PR! OUR ALLIANCE IS ALREADY TERRIBLE ENOUGH"

"ODN, it is truly a sad day, but without thinking, and without any real reason other than: 'we weren't 100% sure whether you'd be with us or not in our ridiculous coalition against the terrible and atrocious GOONS.' But yeah, it's a sad day but cancel."

[b]*MEANWHILE IN THE ODN FA LAND A FEW DAYS EARLIER*[/b]

"Wow, UPN is doing some really stupid !@#$."

"Yeah agreed, they are literally one of the worst alliance's ever."

"Want to cancel?"

"Well, let's give them a heads up and let them tell us what they were thinking. We stuck our heads out for them in the beginning, might as well at least give them a chance."

"Yeah, good idea, that's probably best."

[b]~UPN CANCELS TREATY~[/b]

*ODN*

"Welp, that saves that 48 hour vote.*

"XFD, yeah, thanks UPN"




[b][i]What really happened[/b][/i]


Congrats ODN

o/


Continue being a great alliance UPN
[/quote]
Wow thats pretty accurate I think

[Dylan Carter]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1286820739' post='2481641']
You've got 5 or 6 people minding their own business and blindside them, they do what anyone would do and defend themselves. They're ignoran of this wider world and all the hoops set up. When they've got to the end of the rope and look for peace, they have to slog to through [url="http://cngoons.com/Board/index.php?PHPSESSID=qdhcbqeh7ggitr3ea31jbopnm6&board=94.0"]this filth[/url] (warning, links to IC inappropriate content) or face permawar. Big surprise they tried to find an alliance. UPN agrees to pay, then GOONS attacks, anyway. Boy-howdy, what a bunch of warmongering morons!
[/quote]

Your attempts at spin become more laughable with each post. Those people weren't 'ignorant of the wider world', they knew that as an 8-man AA they were likely to be raided and chose to do it anyway. Getting raided, and then waiting two months to attack an alliance isn't 'what anyone would do to defend themselves'. Joining an alliance or finding a protector, would've been a more reasonable way to handle the situation.

[nippy]

[quote name='Dylan Carter' timestamp='1286822608' post='2481661']
Your attempts at spin become more laughable with each post. Those people weren't 'ignorant of the wider world', they knew that as an 8-man AA they were likely to be raided and chose to do it anyway. Getting raided, and then waiting two months to attack an alliance isn't 'what anyone would do to defend themselves'. Joining an alliance or finding a protector, would've been a more reasonable way to handle the situation.
[/quote]

Careful, you're using logic.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Dylan Carter' timestamp='1286822608' post='2481661']
Your attempts at spin become more laughable with each post. Those people weren't 'ignorant of the wider world', they knew that as an 8-man AA they were likely to be raided and chose to do it anyway. Getting raided, and then waiting two months to attack an alliance isn't 'what anyone would do to defend themselves'. Joining an alliance or finding a protector, would've been a more reasonable way to handle the situation.
[/quote]
You're right, instead of sticking with their own alliance when faced with overwhelming odds, UOKMB should have just disbanded and joined other alliances like Genmay and GOONS1. I guess some people just have the tenacity to rebuild for 2 months to effect the most meaningful defense, silly UOKMB. It's totally UOKMB's fault that raiding alliances set arbitrary definitions of what an alliance is, then also add in clauses that say these rules can be waived at our discretion, anyway.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Schattenmann

[nippy]

Yep, nevermind that an argument was made against a previous post of Schattenmann's...might as well ignore the counterpoint and shoot for the tired, old cliches. Got to love this supposed 'e-lawyer' schtick.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1286822988' post='2481670']
You're right, instead of sticking with their own alliance when faced with overwhelming odds, UOKMB should have just disbanded and joined other alliances like Genmay and GOONS1. I guess some people just have the tenacity to rebuild for 2 months to effect the most meaningful defense, silly UOKMB. It's totally UOKMB's fault that raiding alliances set arbitrary definitions of what an alliance is, then also add in clauses that say these rules can be waived at our discretion, anyway.
[/quote]

Genmay and GOONS1 have nothing to do with it.

Spin harder. You'll soon be powering Planet Bob with it.

[Dylan Carter]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1286822988' post='2481670']
You're right, instead of sticking with their own alliance when faced with overwhelming odds, UOKMB should have just disbanded and joined other alliances like Genmay and GOONS1. I guess some people just have the tenacity to rebuild for 2 months to effect the most meaningful defense, silly UOKMB. It's totally UOKMB's fault that raiding alliances set arbitrary definitions of what an alliance is, then also add in clauses that say these rules can be waived at our discretion, anyway.
[/quote]
'I'll throw in the names of some disbanded alliances to make this drivel seem meaningful'.

It's not UOKMB's fault that alliances get to set definitions for what an alliance is, but it is the reality. Is it UOKMB's fault that running with scissors can lead to serious injury or death? Nope, but it doesn't make injuries resulting from it any less severe or more intelligent either.

[Itsuki Koizumi]

so expected. Congrats ODN

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1286814605' post='2481576']
In this thread, only people from the WCE think this is a bad idea. Everyone else is happy for ODN.
[/quote]


Actually RV was in the WCE planning room, but was defending us in this topic. I think it's more like everyone with any intelligence at all is happy for ODN and everyone else is screaming how much of a coward they are.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1286815518' post='2481583']
You heard it here first, Sparta, TPE, and GATO: Eat crap and die if you're counting on ODN to help you out when C&G is at stake.



Listen Omni, the logs you and the rest of ODN and the world have access to start 2 hours into the conversation and end 3 hours before the conversation ended. You're speaking from a point of ignorance. The only reason UPN was brought into the channel was that they were [i]ALREADY[/i] voting on going to war with GOONS.
[18:25] <Schattenmann> So
[18:25] <Schattenmann> Check this out:
[18:25] <Schattenmann> http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=United%20Purple%20Nations&anyallexact=exact
[18:26] <HeroofTime55> GOONS has a 'hire to kill ghosts' program
...
[18:31] <Schattenmann> <Peggy_Sue|UPN> flame pillars is not a ghost
...
[18:45] <Schattenmann> I'm also learning that UPN is deliberating war on GOONS for attacks on a "ghost" that is not a ghost
[18:45] <Schattenmann> And war on some ex-UOKMB UPN applicants
...
[18:55] <Schattenmann> If UPN is talking war on GOONS should I go ahead and bring Peggy in here?

The logs in circulation start at 19:24. I know everyone wants to think they're supah-spies and [i]really important [/i]froods because they got logs faster than other people, but you don't know half what you're talking about. UPN was not pressured or coerced by anyone.

"Just go back and read the logs Sardonic posted." Your entire problem is that you're lapping up the comedy routine that Sardonic posted like it's momma's milk.
[/quote]

Actually when I headed GATO, ODN and Athens were the two alliances I knew would always be beside me no matter what happened. If I remember correctly an ODN ally was about to hit TPE and ODN stuck up for TPE. So I don't think TPE is worried about their relationship. I really have no idea how Sparta feels though, so sorry no insight on that one.

The logs I have are not the ones Sardonic has.

If UPN would have wanted to go to war over the issue they would have went to war. It's not that hard to post a topic on these forums that says "We are now at war with GOONS". My rationale for saying UPN was being coerced into doing something was the logs in which she said she wanted to make sure she was "defending" her students. However, The organizers of anti-GOONS meeting tried to get them to hit GOONS aggressively. You guys were trying to never let a crisis go to waste.

I understand why you all hate GOONS. They are some pompous pricks, and I don't really like them either. According to Nippy I am a GOONS hater, but let GOONS do something dumb then beat them up over it. Don't try to manufacture a worthless CB. This entire situation reminded me of TIO trying to hit OO over a moma joke, honestly.

Before this situation there were several alliances (ODN included) who's membership despised GOONS. Now at the end of this incident you have just pushed ODN into wanting to "at least get to know them" and I'm sure many alliances now feel the same way. This entire thing backfired pretty hard.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Omniscient1

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1286822988' post='2481670']
You're right, instead of sticking with their own alliance when faced with overwhelming odds, UOKMB should have just disbanded and joined other alliances like Genmay and GOONS1. I guess some people just have the tenacity to rebuild for 2 months to effect the most meaningful defense, silly UOKMB. It's totally UOKMB's fault that raiding alliances set arbitrary definitions of what an alliance is, then also add in clauses that say these rules can be waived at our discretion, anyway.
[/quote]
Schat, you're still pushing forward on this argument without knowing what you're talking about.

The leader of UOKMB admitted they were just bored and "going out with a bang." He admitted they're rogues. He admitted they were going to attack GOONS before the raid ever happened. He admitted they were going to attack SOMEONE even if it wasn't GOONS. UOKMB are not victims of the evil GOONS agenda. They were bored people using a convenient excuse. They didn't defend themselves. They didn't get raided and retaliate. What they did was attack GOONS out of boredom. What they did was try to start a larger war because they thought the current state of Bob was boring.

Now people like you keep using a tiny fraction of the story to make your case. You should really stop trying to argue when you don't know anything.

[nippy]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1286825511' post='2481693']
According to Nippy I am a GOONS hater, but let GOONS do something dumb then beat them up over it.
[/quote]

Hey hey hey.....what channel was that again? I'd like to review the logs of that conversation before making a comment.

[lazyox]

I liked UPN I dislike GOONS I hope the best for UPN

[nippy]

[quote name='lazyox' timestamp='1286827743' post='2481734']
I liked UPN I dislike GOONS I hope the best for UPN
[/quote]

I like punctuation, I dislike the lack of punctuation. I hope the best for punctuation.

[KingEd]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1286815518' post='2481583']
You heard it here first, Sparta, [b]TPE[/b], and GATO: Eat crap and die if you're counting on ODN to help you out when C&G is at stake.
[/quote]

Nice try at taking that post and spinning it into something negative. As to us eating crap? Oh please. I think I speak for TPE and the rest of ODN's allies when I say I have full confidence in ODN defending us should the need ever present itself. And please, don't compare any future TPE hypothetical situation to the !@#$ UPN pulled, it just wouldn't be on equal standing. Moreover, being compared to UPN is just bad.

Edited October 11, 2010 by KingEd