Pandora's Box

[TehChron]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1286496023' post='2478299']
Cool your jets, mister. You're projecting Pandora's Box is going to do ugly things because of the ugly things you are projecting that GOONS is going to do?
[/quote]
To be fair the implication was that PB would be doing ugly things because of the ugly things GOONS has [i]already[/i] done, now your mileage may vary when it comes to his definition, but there's no need to read any more into RV's comment than what was already there to begin with.

You may feel that you were "justified" in what you did, but your "justice" may just be another person's idea of "cruelty". Maybe you just need to learn some perspective?

[Believland]

[quote name='hobbies0310' timestamp='1286494816' post='2478276']
How bout the fact NPO backstabbed there brother Polar? Thats loyalty
[/quote]

ODN talking about loyalty. That's funny.

SCY, gayroller is much better.

[Kalasin]

The thing about PB is that it essentially unites three points of power in one pole. That's fairly unstable.

If someone else has already pointed this out, I apologise. But what do you guys think? Will it collapse into civil war, or will it start rolling everyone else? (i.e. ex-BLEU, or ex-Hegemony). I mean, there's going to be war at *some* point, it's just a matter of what the sides will be.

[Choson]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1286495395' post='2478282']
You seem to be mixing up your definitions of idiocy with sheer unadulterated genius. Not the first time you've gotten some words mixed up, but I just thought I'd point out you'd need to remember that.
[/quote]
No, no, no, I know what I meant and I said what I meant. It doesn't get any more crystal clear than what I said.

But, gee... [size="7"]thanks Dad![/size]

[TehChron]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1286497025' post='2478328']
The thing about PB is that it essentially unites three points of power in one pole. That's fairly unstable.

If someone else has already pointed this out, I apologise. But what do you guys think? Will it collapse into civil war, or will it start rolling everyone else? (i.e. ex-BLEU, or ex-Hegemony). I mean, there's going to be war at *some* point, it's just a matter of what the sides will be.
[/quote]
Heh.

Actually, you seem to have made a fairly common error in your analysis. Pandora's Box isn't about uniting any poles of power. These connections are, for once, based on matching agendas with compatible personalities. So it's more of a neo-CnG, or WUT 3.0 than anything else.

[Earogema]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1286497025' post='2478328']
The thing about PB is that it essentially unites three points of power in one pole. That's fairly unstable.

If someone else has already pointed this out, I apologise. But what do you guys think? Will it collapse into civil war, or will it start rolling everyone else? (i.e. ex-BLEU, or ex-Hegemony). I mean, there's going to be war at *some* point, it's just a matter of what the sides will be.
[/quote]
I think the points of power are about to split anyway, and PB will be the only point of power.

That's what it seems like to me anyway.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1286497195' post='2478330']
No, no, no, I know what I meant and I said what I meant. It doesn't get any more crystal clear than what I said.

But, gee... [size="7"]thanks Dad![/size]
[/quote]
Always happy to help, Kiddo. We old fogies still have a few tricks up our collective sweater-vests, after all.

Now back to your homework, and Ill call you when it's time for dinner.

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1286497354' post='2478333']
I think the points of power are about to split anyway, and PB will be the only point of power.

That's what it seems like to me anyway.
[/quote]
Heh, that's a bit closer to the reality of it, but still fundamentally flawed.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Chron

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1286497290' post='2478331']
Heh.

Actually, you seem to have made a fairly common error in your analysis. Pandora's Box isn't about uniting any poles of power. These connections are, for once, based on matching agendas with compatible personalities. So it's more of a neo-CnG, or WUT 3.0 than anything else.
[/quote]

I'm not sure. SF and what's left of C&G aren't *that* close. GOD/MK was a strong connection, but MK's just cancelled all its treaties. I think there's some other treaty like Athens/CSN or something though.

I suppose you've also got to take into consideration that SF and C&G are significantly weaker than before. I mean, Fark left SF recently, for example.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1286497444' post='2478336']
I'm not sure. SF and what's left of C&G aren't *that* close. GOD/MK was a strong connection, but MK's just cancelled all its treaties. I think there's some other treaty like Athens/CSN or something though.

I suppose you've also got to take into consideration that SF and C&G are significantly weaker than before. I mean, Fark left SF recently, for example.
[/quote]
You're missing the forest for the trees. Go back to the basic underlying assumptions you're making with regards to the power structure.

If the reality doesn't work with your model, then there's something wrong with your model. The actual membership list actually tells you something here, and it's not that this bloc is a band-aid for SuperGrievances.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1286497444' post='2478336']
I'm not sure. SF and what's left of C&G aren't *that* close. GOD/MK was a strong connection, but MK's just cancelled all its treaties. I think there's some other treaty like Athens/CSN or something though.

I suppose you've also got to take into consideration that SF and C&G are significantly weaker than before. I mean, Fark left SF recently, for example.
[/quote]

Athens/CSN and GR/RIA are the only CnG to SF direct treaties at the moment.

[Choson]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1286497411' post='2478334']
Always happy to help, Kiddo. We old fogies still have a few tricks up our collective sweater-vests, after all.

Now back to your homework, and Ill call you when it's time for dinner.
[/quote]
I think you've been forgetting your galantamine, Chron.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Twizzler' timestamp='1286495323' post='2478281']
No actually. Lets go through recent events.

You post a bunch of crap about ODN's history. Much of it is hilarious, opinionated, and quite a bit comes from propaganda. Plenty of it is refutable logically and rationally.

Kalasin and I both read it and laughed at your stupidity. Kalasin mentions some things about your past.

You immediately get butthurt. Insert a bunch of words about how none of it could possibly ever be true and its all propaganda.

I laugh harder at your incredibly ability to contradict yourself. I don't bother going through anything you said because you're not worth my time.

My silence has nothing to do with validity of your claims, but merely the fact that your P.h.D in logic seems to be written in orange crayon.
[/quote]
OK, my mistake, so you didn't agree to the loyalty oath, right? You didn't sit out GWII, or fight horribly and get beaten down in GWIII. You didn't cancel on Polaris or GATO when war was headed their way? You didn't try to suck up to first GOONS, then Polar, then One Vision after GWIII? Are you from Bizarro ODN? Because I was here for all that besides the oath, and I'm quite sure my memory isn't going just yet. If it's all so refutable, why did none of you little ODN muppets do so?

Butthurt? How can you possibly construe my post as butthurt? I was laughing at her characterisation of our past, and then refuting it. Coz, you know, when you can refute something you usually do. Funny that I'm not worth your time, and thus you don't respond to what I said about ODN history, but you've got plenty of time to come up with this imbecilic commentary of Kalasin's and I's posts. Well done mang, you sure are too cool for school.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1286497695' post='2478340']
I think you've been forgetting your galantamine, Chron.
[/quote]
You know it's funny, I had already figured where you were going with that before even looking up what Galantamine was.

But Im not quite that old yet, sonny. My memory is still quite sharp, and you could learn a thing or two from your betters.

Looking forward to you applying these lessons that you're learning now to your dealings in this wonderful new bloc you're making.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Chron

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1286497613' post='2478338']
You're missing the forest for the trees. Go back to the basic underlying assumptions you're making with regards to the power structure.

If the reality doesn't work with your model, then there's something wrong with your model. The actual membership list actually tells you something here, and it's not that this bloc is a band-aid for SuperGrievances.
[/quote]

So what's your analysis of the situation then?

ooc: I'm going out for lunch. Cyas all.

[Choson]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1286497938' post='2478346']
You know it's funny, I had already figured where you were going with that before even looking up what Galantamine was.

But Im not quite that old yet, sonny. My memory is still quite sharp, and you could learn a thing or two from your betters.

Looking forward to you applying these lessons that you're learning now to your dealings in this wonderful new bloc you're making.
[/quote]
Suffering from grandiosity too, Chron?

[TehChron]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1286499022' post='2478354']
Suffering from grandiosity too, Chron?
[/quote]
Clearly you're trying too hard here. Honestly, you young people are just so quick to the trigger these days. You need to learn how to lean back and enjoy the simpler things in life, and not take such deep offense to every little thing.

I sure hope your new friends will be able to help cool that quick temper of yours.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Chron

[Reptyler]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1286499275' post='2478361']
Clearly you're trying too hard here. Honestly, you young people are just so quick to the trigger these days. You need to learn how to lean back and enjoy the simpler things in life, and not take such deep offense to every little thing.

I sure hope your new friends will be able to help cool that quick temper of yours.
[/quote]
I concur. You, sir, are far too rational to be a Sith.

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1286493373' post='2478251']


LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE! NO ONE WAS SAFE!

Don't you think it's been long enough that you drop the Vox/Karmaite lines and have a rational discussion about Pacifican history? This obviously isn't the thread to do it in, but geez, this repeated assertion of propaganda lines as fact is beginning to come off as a bit desperate. We were dominant in both the military and political fields, and thus were often able to get our way. That does not however mean that we bullied people. And yes, occasionally we waged military campaigns against them, this was however [i]after[/i] they had committed transgressions against us, and refused to come to a mutually acceptable resolution. We didn't plot against allies, except Polaris, in response to statements and actions taken by Sponge. And we have apologized for our actions during that time.

EZI was an accepted and widely used practice, we are far from the only ones to utilise it. Though no one was actually deemed 'EZI', they were just kept as a target until they made amends, at which point they were released. It was one attack on a disbanded alliance, and I've already stated my position on that, I'm not sure why they become innocent just because they disbanded their alliance to avoid retribution. And viceroys were utilised by more alliances than just us, and I would say often helped the alliance as much as hindered it.

So...what was your point again? If you actually approach things rationally, you see they aren't something to get hysterical about. Our history is unparalleled and unmatched, we were the pre-eminent alliance for 3 years, dominant on the political, military and economic fronts. I don't see how that's something to be ashamed of. Especially compared to the ODN's past, which I outlined before. Which I notice you also failed to address.
[/quote]

While I'm not the NPO's biggest fan, I must say that this post is one of the better rebuttals of Anti-NPO sentiment that I have seen in a long time. Good show, and it raises some valid points.


[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1286497025' post='2478328']
The thing about PB is that it essentially unites three points of power in one pole. That's fairly unstable.

If someone else has already pointed this out, I apologise. But what do you guys think? Will it collapse into civil war, or will it start rolling everyone else? (i.e. ex-BLEU, or ex-Hegemony). I mean, there's going to be war at *some* point, it's just a matter of what the sides will be.
[/quote]

To be honest I would peg it as the bloc to beat in the upcoming months. SF and C&G have both recently suffered major losses, and as I've been saying for months, eventually a conflict will break out within the greater SG superstructure, its only because of a lot of diplomatic work and some sheer dumb luck that it hasn't happened already. Hell, you have this UPN-GOONS thing that I suppose just happened, something like that would have torn "Supergrievances" apart. PB will probably act as a decisive and unified unit that will decide the outcome of said conflict, and be the pre-eminent power in whatever post war world takes form. Should be interesting I suppose

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1286497641' post='2478339']
Athens/CSN and GR/RIA are the only CnG to SF direct treaties at the moment.
[/quote]

RIA-LOST ODP as well

[TehChron]

[quote name='Reptyler' timestamp='1286500226' post='2478378']
I concur. You, sir, are far too rational to be a Sith.
[/quote]
Now, now, that's too broad a brush you paint with here, we have great thinkers like Lennox, Heft, Moldavi, and Lintwad among our number. I can only imagine what this bloc brings to the table as far as leaders go.

[Choson]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1286500825' post='2478387']
Now, now, that's too broad a brush you paint with here, we have great thinkers like Lennox, Heft, Moldavi, and Lintwad among our number. I can only imagine what this bloc brings to the table as far as leaders go.
[/quote]
I don't see Rebel Virginia on that list. He's the greatest thinker of them all!

[TehChron]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1286501429' post='2478399']
I don't see Rebel Virginia on that list. He's the greatest thinker of them all!
[/quote]
Wrong again.

Rebel Virginia is no mere thinker. No, for Rebel Virginia is a [i]doer[/i]! The greatest -er of them all!

What are you, Choson? Don't you wish you could be as good at doing as Rebel Virginia? Don't you wish you were a capable thinker? I hope that the future shows what side of the -er schism you fall on, and from there you can perhaps work to catch up to the level of RV or myself.

Im looking forward to the bright [i]bright[/i] future you and your allies have.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1286484502' post='2478142']
Hey fella, you used to hang out with us too for a while, remember?
[/quote]

Except that your bosses have went to some extraordinary lengths to make sure that we all know that this GOONS isn't the old GOONS.

Schatt was a member of the old GOONS for just long enough to see it smashed to bits.

[Choson]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1286501666' post='2478407']
Wrong again.

Rebel Virginia is no mere thinker. No, for Rebel Virginia is a [i]doer[/i]! The greatest -er of them all!

What are you, Choson? Don't you wish you could be as good at doing as Rebel Virginia? Don't you wish you were a capable thinker? I hope that the future shows what side of the -er schism you fall on, and from there you can perhaps work to catch up to the level of RV or myself.

Im looking forward to the bright [i]bright[/i] future you and your allies have.
[/quote]
The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades.

And no. I don't wish to compare myself to Rebel Virginia. For there is only one Rebel Virginia and there will be only one Rebel Virginia.

I'd rather rise to his level than stoop to yours though, Chron. Sorry.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1286484502' post='2478142']
Hey fella, you used to hang out with us too for a while, remember?
[/quote]
[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1286501709' post='2478411']
Except that your bosses have went to some extraordinary lengths to make sure that we all know that this GOONS isn't the old GOONS.

Schatt was a member of the old GOONS for just long enough to see it smashed to bits.
[/quote]

Not to mention Sardonic and Biazt have made it clear that as far as GOONS2 is concerned I'm not a goon.

[Choson]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1286504236' post='2478435']
Not to mention Sardonic and Biazt have made it clear that as far as GOONS2 is concerned I'm not a goon.
[/quote]
Old GOONS is dead. You have never been part of NuGOONS, therefore you're not a goon.