The Best Friend an Alliance Could Have

[Banksy]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1284160274' post='2449195']
Did we fight in Karma? Yes. Did we fight in Bi-Polar? Yes. Were we gung-ho and ready to burn every single pixel we had to the ground in either of those? No. We fought and were offered peace terms in both and after talking with our allies took them.

As I was trying to point out even though we didn't agree with the reasons behind the wars we kept our word.
[/quote]
lol, you begged for peace terms. Backing a treaty partner to the letter of the treaty and being a 'best friend' are completely different concepts.

[Teddyyo]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1284158420' post='2449161']
2. As far as teddyboy loving The Legion goes, he loved it so much he left.
[/quote]

This is all I will respond to, because apparently my memory has failed me on other things [img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img]



I left Legion because I needed a change of scenery. It happens to us all.
I'm not the one over here making polls that are rigged against my own alliance. Perhaps that is something you should address?
As for my own alliance, we're only 220 days old, haven't been in any wars yet, nobody really knows us, and we've never had any clause of a treaty (except PC protectorate cancellation) be activated. So saying we're the best friends on CN is a little self-righteous and arrogant. Hence, I didn't do it. I can come off as that a lot of the time, but I try to avoid such extreme statements.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Teddyyo

[Affluenza]

It has to be MK no?

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Teddyyo' timestamp='1284162285' post='2449223']
This is all I will respond to, because apparently my memory has failed me on other things [img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img]



I left Legion because I needed a change of scenery. It happens to us all.
I'm not the one over here making polls that are rigged against my own alliance. Perhaps that is something you should address?
As for my own alliance, we're only 220 days old, haven't been in any wars yet, nobody really knows us, and we've never had any clause of a treaty (except PC protectorate cancellation) be activated. So saying we're the best friends on CN is a little self-righteous and arrogant. Hence, I didn't do it.
[/quote]

I'm not criticizing you leaving, but rather saying that we should get the Karma treatment, and then turning around and trying to support us. It's my bad that I didn't take support were I could find it. For that support I say thanks, but as for sticking up for the Legion don't worry about it we can handle it.

One question though, how is the poll "rigged" against The Legion? I've seen the opposite posted as well, that this is designed to stroke The Legion's ego or something. Not really sure how this poll does either of those things.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1284158420' post='2449161']
1. Fixed it for ya.

2. As far as teddyboy loving The Legion goes, he loved it so much he left.

3. Surprise, Surprise I'm going to disagree with you again because I believe that any information is useful if it's used in the right way.[/quote]

Hello there, it is 2010 and "Fixed it for ya" is no longer considered an actual response. Nowhere in your post did you actually address what I said. I know that you feel like you "told me" or "set the record straight", but you posted a lot of words without actually saying anything at all.


[quote]I will grant you that we're 0-2 in the last two wars and I can personally vouch that paying reps from Bi-Polar sucked with a capital S. But the perception that The Legion is a waste of time is wrong. We've stuck by our treaties when we've been on the losing side of wars that we didn't want. We've built back up and with the help of our good friends managed to get sanctioned. We continue to grow and try to get better every day in every way and that shows in our NS average which is the highest it's been since before Karma.[/quote]

Based on your history, Legion doesn't strike me as an alliance that is going to die for its allies. Like I already told you, I was there for your surrender in Karma and was one of the individuals repeatedly contacted by your government asking how Legion can get out of the war ... after just two days of fighting. I know a lot of people on these forums will disagree with me, but I don't view that as honoring a treaty. A token DoW followed by a request for a quick peace does not make you honorable nor does it count as "honoring a treaty". Honestly, you may as well have sat out the war as you did not impact that front in any way, shape, or form. You can spout off about Legion's growth in the last year, and that is all fine and good ... but everyone knows it is due to avoiding any real damage once it gets ugly. Until you reverse that trend, you will not be viewed as steadfast allies.

[quote]Now that you've heard from someone who's actually in the alliance you're criticizing let me know if anything I just posted is and "inaccurate and flat out idiotic statement".[/quote]

Consider yourself notified.

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1284160290' post='2449196']
"Your totally subjective opinion is wrong because it contradicts my unparalleled opinion based on the objective truth!." Someone's perception cannot be wrong as it is there own. And someone who is so involved in legion cannot contradict this because they are inherently biased. [/quote]

Circular logic look it up.

[quote]"We merged with some inactive to increase our NS." So really, your 'growth' has come from an outside source, and therefore you must be a good ally. Okay![/quote]

I've heard that a lot, but the MASH guys who've joined us have been great, and have taken up jobs all over the alliance. Could it be they weren't inactive, but rather actively trying to avoid you?

[quote]As for your average NS, it's been almost one and a half years since Karma. [i]Everyone[/i] has improved their average NS. This hardly proves your competency, and it definitely doesn't make you a good ally. [/quote]

True, but there's been a bunch of alliances that have fallen flat or just plain disbanded. We've kept our growth up in a time when even you have to admit the population of Planet Bob is trending way down.

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1284160386' post='2449197']
lol, you begged for peace terms. Backing a treaty partner to the letter of the treaty and being a 'best friend' are completely different concepts.
[/quote]

You seem to "know" a lot about things that you weren't actively involved in. But the only place that we "begged" for anything was in your mind.

[Joseph Black]

I'm bias, but other than maybe Fark, NV, and STA. None of the above mentioned alliances are really willing to put their money where their mouth is when it comes to being "best allies" The fact that MHA, ODN, Sparta, Valhalla, and the Legion are up there is nothing more than laughable and at best publicity. Where are the alliances that are really ready to give it all for their friends.

The Order of the Black Rose, Wolfpack, CCC, maybe STA, NV, Fark, possibly TPF. With the utmost respect the true winners of this award are not still here. Alliances that fight with everything they have for a friend tend to die in battle, but few are remembered and that is the sad truth. IAA is the one that comes to mind of the alliances still around that deserve this award.

As The Organization crafts our idea of who we would like to be like in terms of our honor and commitment to our allies these are the ones that come to mind.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Muddog

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1284163538' post='2449253']
Hello there, it is 2010 and "Fixed it for ya" [/quote]

Here's another oldie - LOL. As in you got me (here's a really old term) fair and square on that one.


[quote]Based on your history, Legion doesn't strike me as an alliance that is going to die for its allies. [/quote]

Point taken and as I can only speak personally to the last two wars, you're right. We didn't die for our allies, but who in that timespan has? There's only one that came even close in my mind and that's TOOL.

[quote]Like I already told you, I was there for your surrender in Karma and was one of the individuals repeatedly contacted by your government asking how Legion can get out of the war ... after just two days of fighting. I know a lot of people on these forums will disagree with me, but I don't view that as honoring a treaty. A token DoW followed by a request for a quick peace does not make you honorable nor does it count as "honoring a treaty". Honestly, you may as well have sat out the war as you did not impact that front in any way, shape, or form. You can spout off about Legion's growth in the last year, and that is all fine and good ... but everyone knows it is due to avoiding any real damage once it gets ugly. Until you reverse that trend, you will not be viewed as steadfast allies. [/quote]

How is any DoW a token act? As far as avoiding damage don't you think we could have avoided a lot more damage if we never entered either war?

One of the biggest problems your side has with The Legion is that we either should have left NPO to die or fought on Karma's side. Now your argument is that we should have kept fighting. Well if you think that why did you sign off on White Peace? As you've said repeatedly, you were at the peace table and if you wanted to keep us fighting so bad all you had to do is say no. My assumption in this is that since you let us go you wanted us out of the fight too.

[Joseph Black]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1284166590' post='2449313']
One of the biggest problems your side has with The Legion is that we either should have left NPO to die or fought on Karma's side. Now your argument is that we should have kept fighting. Well if you think that why did you sign off on White Peace? As you've said repeatedly, you were at the peace table and if you wanted to keep us fighting so bad all you had to do is say no. My assumption in this is that since you let us go you wanted us out of the fight too.
[/quote]

Not my conversation, so I apologize. It seems your idea of what makes a "Best" ally is much different. You may not be a bad ally, but your not anybodies "Best" ally. They didn't care if you left the war or not, but you can't say you have commitment to treaties, because when push comes to pull a friend should never be forced to help you.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Muddog

[Xiphosis]

[quote]You seem to "know" a lot about things that you weren't actively involved in. But the only place that we "begged" for anything was in your mind. [/quote]

If Legion had held out for much longer, I can assure you I would've made you beg. The people on your front were getting sick to death of you guys and I was getting offers to 'just handle it.' You guys took terms right about when people were reaching their limits, so good going.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1284164032' post='2449267']You seem to "know" a lot about things that you weren't actively involved in. But the only place that we "begged" for anything was in your mind.
[/quote]


You're right, he was not there ... but I was. Wanna keep disputing it? Because I certainly don't recall you ever being there.


[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1284166590' post='2449313']How is any DoW a token act? As far as avoiding damage don't you think we could have avoided a lot more damage if we never entered either war?

One of the biggest problems your side has with The Legion is that we either should have left NPO to die or fought on Karma's side. Now your argument is that we should have kept fighting. Well if you think that why did you sign off on White Peace? As you've said repeatedly, you were at the peace table and if you wanted to keep us fighting so bad all you had to do is say no. My assumption in this is that since you let us go you wanted us out of the fight too.
[/quote]

If you have no intention of actually seeing it through, it is indeed a token DoW. You may have a different view of what an actual ally is, but when Ragnarok goes to war to defend someone else, we don't leave until they do and we certainly don't come around asking for peace two days into the conflict. By bowing out early, it just made us all able to focus all of our efforts on a different alliance ... you know ... one you call an ally. Make sense? And no, we did not want Legion fighting on our side. We didn't need such a liability.

That should also handle the assumption you have made. I find it laughable that you were given white peace and feel it was due to this earth shaking damage you supposedly did. We had the advantage and Legion was beaten soundly. Like I said previously, if Legion was doing so well, you wouldn't have been constantly querying me and pushing so hard to get out of the war before you took anymore damage. Again, Legion may be a different alliance now, but back then your alliance was spineless and were pathetic at best when it came to fighting. You were a speed bump, and once removed from the road gave us a clear shot at the more important (and vastly more difficult to fight) alliances that we were targeting at the time.

[LeonidasRexII]

Alright Hoo (and others) we're definitely not going to agree so let's leave it at that and get the thread back on track. If you want I'll be happy to debate the merits of the Legion in another thread.

There's been a lot of "Flawed poll, null vote" posts. So I'll put it to you - who are the 25 alliances that should be on this poll?

FYI - due to popular demand another neutral is out and The Phoenix Federation is in.

Edited September 11, 2010 by LeonidasRexII

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284084553' post='2448331']
I voted TOP
[/quote]

So I guess bailing on the losing side a week before a war to join the winning side passes for standing by your treaties these days.

Makes sense to me.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1284173637' post='2449414']
So I guess bailing on the losing side a week before a war to join the winning side passes for standing by your treaties these days.

Makes sense to me.
[/quote]
They were on the winning side the whole time, the side of the FCC who won that war.

[cookavich]

STA, NV, and Genesis have all been amazing allies over the years. I would be happy to vote for each and everyone of them.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1284173637' post='2449414']
So I guess bailing on the losing side a week before a war to join the winning side passes for standing by your treaties these days.

Makes sense to me.
[/quote]
You can't be on the losing side of a war that's not happening. A week before the war erupted, nobody thought that OV was going to get attacked by the NPO. It wasn't even in the discussions. Stop being dense, Damsky (also, it's a tad above a week).

[Monster]

In addition to what Yevgeni said, TOP had been excluded from Continuum meetings before it took place and were planning on leaving before it all happened. So no, it can't really be said that TOP ditched the losing side considering NPO ended up starting the war during negotiations TOP was conducting. That isn't to say I support Methrage's points as we are not taking a lot of other factors into account.

As for the actual question: MK, FOK, GOONS, damn it it's just not fair to only have one

Edited September 11, 2010 by Antoine Roquentin

[Vinzent Zeppelin]

[quote name='Exige' timestamp='1284118214' post='2448744']
Nordreich ofcourse
we don't only honour our treaties, we upload your flag as well
[/quote]

Pretty much this. Judging on three factors -- cancelling treaties due to political pressure, violating treaties outright, and surrendering or withdrawing from a war when an ally has not gained peace -- these alliances stand out in my mind as being the best (in no particular order): Nordreich, The Phoenix Federation, Nueva Vida, Mushroom Kingdom, Global Democratic Alliance, Valhalla, Global Order of Darkness.

[Vol Navy]

Once again I laugh at several people calling us CoC and opportunists and saying we were shamed into going into the meat grinder in Karma.

You can go back to our DoW in Karma and several of the very same posters being critical in this thread were basically saying "Hurr Durr TPF will fight a few days and bail!!!" or "TPF is going to give the minimum effort and leave" and generally calling us cowards back then for declaring on Avalanche as if that was all we were going to be facing in that war.

Then we faced 100+ days of 1 vs 3 nuclear war, standing by our allies in Pacifica when we could have gotten out much sooner. Lost about half our members, many to deletion and about 85% of our prewar NS. But we didn't disband as many predicted, we were there til Pacifica was out and we still love Pacifica. I'd go to ZI several more times to defend them as I did in Karma. Same with any of our allies.

We are still rebuilding from Karma and the two wars since to some extent. We are at less than 50% of our pre-Karma NS. We were rebuilding when we were jumped in the war around Christmas. We took several days of beating so our allies weren't drawn into it in an unfavorable way. We fought in BiPolar to help our allies while we were rebuilding from the past two wars. Had the Sith asked us to, we'd have fought in their war too.

[kevin32891]

STA all the way.

[raasaa]

[quote name='Rafael Nadal' timestamp='1284140222' post='2448916']
How do UPN and MHA have more votes than FOK?
[/quote]
[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1284165297' post='2449291']
The fact that MHA, ODN, Sparta and the Legion are up there is nothing more than laughable and at best publicity.
[/quote]
This is because, people continually confuse the term "best friend" or " best ally" with the term "MEATSHIELD"

Edit:

Also, i see everyone talking about alliances that will goto ZI for their allies or die for their allies etc...

A good friend, as in the rl sense, is an alliance who will not only stand by you through thick and thin, but will also ensure that you do not something stupid and get into trouble. More like the sane and logical side of yourself.

So, now how many alliances can confidently say, they actually talked sense into their allies, preventing stupidity and needless bloodshed ???

Edited September 11, 2010 by raasaa

[Keve69]

The best thing about this poll is not who's winning, but the fact that UPN is beating the likes of FOK.

[USMC123]

I voted for VE though I would have voted for CIA (RIP)

[Joseph Black]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1284173637' post='2449414']
So I guess bailing on the losing side a week before a war to join the winning side passes for standing by your treaties these days.

Makes sense to me.
[/quote]

And VE is not guilty of that sin?

[AnCapistan]

No we're not.