The Third Court

[JEDCJT]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1295077549' post='2575890']
What are the rules for RPing protectorates? I know you can announce that the people have voted to join your nation, but other than that can you RP other internal matters or, for example, establish another government there?
[/quote]

I think you need the protector's permission to do these.

[Sal Paradise]

I meant RPing in your own protectorate.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Sal Paradise

[iKrolm]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1295079941' post='2575911']
I meant RPing in your own protectorate.
[/quote]

There really aren't any rules; if you can do it in your own country, you can do it in your protectorate.

[VigilantWatcher]

I would like to bring it to attention of Kankou rping unreasonable damages per this post:

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97109&view=findpost&p=2575964"]Link[/url]

Oh come on, three hundred missiles fired and only fourteen hit their targets???? Oh come on that is being very unrealistic.....

[Centurius]

[quote name='Curristan' timestamp='1295102616' post='2576016']
I would like to bring it to attention of Kankou rping unreasonable damages per this post:

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97109&view=findpost&p=2575964"]Link[/url]

Oh come on, three hundred missiles fired and only fourteen hit their targets???? Oh come on that is being very unrealistic.....
[/quote]

In addition:

[quote]Combined with the fact that Chosun had tens of thousands of anti-air guns[/quote]

really?

[Triyun]

I think its possible to have that many AA Guns but only a fraction of that could be automated and linked into a network to stop missiles, a goodly number of those would have to be the old fashion manual crank operation and thusly not very effective against missiles.

[SpacingOutMan]

I'm 75% sure that anti-aircraft guns are the same as "towed artillery" or "field artillery" of sorts (in terms of the precedent ruling regarding the max. tank value), thus falls under the "equal to or less than maximum tank" value.

[Malatose]

I'm still trying to figure out how her Anti Aircraft batteries intercepted missiles going at hypersonic speeds. In addition, it'd take time to plot a course for the missiles, in addition to firing them.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Malatose' timestamp='1295116840' post='2576190']
I'm still trying to figure out how her Anti Aircraft batteries intercepted missiles going at hypersonic speeds. In addition, it'd take time to plot a course for the missiles, in addition to firing them.
[/quote]
Hypersonic missiles' locations and paths are easy to track since their thermal signature is a dead give away and its difficult to maneuver at such high speed, making it easy to predict the missiles' courses. However, if you fired them at a very close range, then her AA batteries wouldn't have enough time to respond.

Edited January 15, 2011 by HHAYD

[Centurius]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1295120398' post='2576235']
Hypersonic missiles' locations and paths are easy to track since their thermal signature is a dead give away and its difficult to maneuver at such high speed, making it easy to predict the missiles' courses. However, if you fired them at a very close range, then her AA batteries wouldn't have enough time to respond.
[/quote]

Seeing them and locking onto them are 2 different things.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1295120398' post='2576235']
Hypersonic missiles' locations and paths are easy to track since their thermal signature is a dead give away and its difficult to maneuver at such high speed, making it easy to predict the missiles' courses. However, if you fired them at a very close range, then her AA batteries wouldn't have enough time to respond.
[/quote]

And sheer velocity of a hypersonic missile would likely out run the trajectory of conventional AA caliber bullets, as well. Likewise, many, if not most, hypersonic missiles have a variety of anti-SAM/AA capabilities, such as chaffing and the sorts.

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='Sargun' timestamp='1295074889' post='2575863']
"brute force attack to break his internet"

...what

I'll get around to rolls later
[/quote]

"brute force attack to break into his intranet". Basically, directing massive amounts of data and computing power at his intranet in the hopes to force the servers to shut down, giving me a window of opprotunity just before to get into his intranet and then shut down his ability to launch nukes.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1295123666' post='2576279']
And sheer velocity of a hypersonic missile would likely out run the trajectory of conventional AA caliber bullets, as well. Likewise, many, if not most, hypersonic missiles have a variety of anti-SAM/AA capabilities, such as chaffing and the sorts.
[/quote]
If you have slower missiles flying on the hypersonic missile's predicted path (but in an opposite direction), the hypersonic missile would have to launch chaff or decoys to avoid a head-on collision. Flying faster is only going to cripple the maneuverability more and ram into the intercepting missile faster.

Edited January 15, 2011 by HHAYD

[Centurius]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1295125373' post='2576302']
If you have slower missiles flying on the hypersonic missile's predicted path (but in an opposite direction), the hypersonic missile would have to launch chaff or decoys to avoid a head-on collision. Flying faster is only going to cripple the maneuverability more and ram into the intercepting missile faster.
[/quote]

Except Kankou posted aa [b]guns[/b], you know those things that tend to not be guided by advanced computer systems. Also even with guidance it is damned hard to properly predict a missile's path as precise as you seem to think.

[Triyun]

Most cruise missiles have reduced radar cross section, meaning its harder to get a lock. Infrared weapons are not long range weapons.

[Kankou]

Well, my logic as to the damages.


1. Malatose launched 150 hypersonic missiles, with more than a hundred regular cruise missiles. Therefore, the latter 100 could be shot down "relatively" more easily.

2. The distance from the launching location to Kanggye is over 1000 km. Even at 5.5 mach, it would take about 10 minutes to get to Kanggye. I admit it would be tough, but not impossible.

3. The missiles are aimed at the most mountainous place in Korea. Geography-wise, the missiles will have some trouble keeping its speed, and there are only limited routes into Kanggye.

4. I'm at Pacheon 2, which is the same as DEFCON 2. High alert, basically. Combined that with the most concerntrated satellite system around, I would say tracking will be done.

5. You happen to be launching missiles against the most militarized state (note I did not say country) on earth. Most of the AA guns are not really artillery, but using FLAK should be enough to shoot most of the missiles down. Oh, and the missiles would have to pass through Pyongyang.

Some idea of what Malatose is up against. Given that Chosun is a more technologically advanced and powerful version of RL DPRK, you can guess this will be a tough nut to crack: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?128528-Bluffer-s-guide-Fortress-North-Korea



I'm open to comments. Also, thanks for taking this outside of the RP thread itself.

Will try to get to things later.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1295156944' post='2576757']
Well, my logic as to the damages.


1. Malatose launched 150 hypersonic missiles, with more than a hundred regular cruise missiles. Therefore, the latter 100 could be shot down "relatively" more easily.
[/quote]

It's still a cruise missile, so not by much. Hypersonic just makes it nearly impossible is all while being a standard cruise missile simply makes it plausible but unlikely. You DO notably however have missile defense improvements, which I think should allow you to knock down at least 30% of any non-nuclear cruise missiles. (they require sdi) You do not however, have wonders which reduce your missile damage.

[quote]
2. The distance from the launching location to Kanggye is over 1000 km. Even at 5.5 mach, it would take about 10 minutes to get to Kanggye. I admit it would be tough, but not impossible.
[/quote]

It has no real relevance or bearing on how many missiles you would shoot down based on the mechanics of CNRP or reality. And mountains really do not have an impact on the speed of cruise missiles at all. They can simply go over them.. then go straight down vertically onto the target.

[quote]
3. The missiles are aimed at the most mountainous place in Korea. Geography-wise, the missiles will have some trouble keeping its speed, and there are only limited routes into Kanggye.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, this is not true. The missiles, as previously stated, could simply fly at altitude over any mountain ranges and make a direct vertical descent onto their targets as most are actually programed to do in such a situation.

[quote]
4. I'm at Pacheon 2, which is the same as DEFCON 2. High alert, basically. Combined that with the most concerntrated satellite system around, I would say tracking will be done.
[/quote]

Agreed you could likely track the inbound weapons as their high speed will give them a strong infra-red signature.

[quote]
5. You happen to be launching missiles against the most militarized state (note I did not say country) on earth. Most of the AA guns are not really artillery, but using FLAK should be enough to shoot most of the missiles down. Oh, and the missiles would have to pass through Pyongyang.
[/quote]

Flak cannot shoot down a missile flying at sufficient altitude, much like they can't shoot down an SR-71 Blackbird. If terrain is a concern the missiles can be simply programmed to fly at maximum altitude to destination and then make a direct downwards descent onto target. That said, while your missile defenses would work, your FLAK would have 0 bearing on being able to shoot down the weapons which simply would fly to fast to be countered with a bullet or even a flak shell and if not to fast, then too high. The missiles would not have to pass through Pyongyang at all.. more like.. at a very high altitude above Pyongyang.. which while it would expose them to your missile defense system, it would not expose them to FLAK or AA or any other systems capable of having an impact on them except your missile defenses of course.

[quote]
Some idea of what Malatose is up against. Given that Chosun is a more technologically advanced and powerful version of RL DPRK, you can guess this will be a tough nut to crack: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?128528-Bluffer-s-guide-Fortress-North-Korea



I'm open to comments. Also, thanks for taking this outside of the RP thread itself.

Will try to get to things later.
[/quote]

While you are correct, most of the forces you have cited will not have any bearing on the enemy's missile performance. Only what I have cited will.. and what that is is the 3 missile defense batteries you have as part of your improvements which give you a 30% kill rate. Use that, that is all you really have. The rest of your argument is a mention of insufficient means.

And just a reminder.. while you are playing North Korea and it's history which is cool.. you are not North Korea.. you are Kousen.. you have the capabilities of Kousen.. no more, no less.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex

[king of cochin]

The North Korean example provided herewith consists principally of Anti Aircraft Artillery with ranges/maximum altitude from between 5 km to 15 kms for the 100mm KS19. Most of these are obsolete weapons however their volume of fire is still lethal. With such a high density of AAA a very effective air saturation can be achieved which would be fatal for any terrain hugging missile which is flying below the effective tactical ceiling of 5000 meters. With sufficient missile alert, if all these AAAs fire together, yes, interdiction similar to what Kankou said is possible.

Though these are low tech with very low kill ratio by itself, its combined effect would provide quite effective Air defense.

[Centurius]

Ok because Em refused to roll on his own nukes and Sargun refused to roll I took matters in my own hand.
[img]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4469/sdirolls.png[/img]

1-60 is SDI success
61-100 is SDI failure

So 3 nukes hit Keshav, 1 was blocked.

[AironthFlamewing]

nope- i was wrong

Edited January 16, 2011 by graniteknight

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1295191648' post='2577162']
Ok because Em refused to roll on his own nukes and Sargun refused to roll I took matters in my own hand.
[img]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4469/sdirolls.png[/img]

1-60 is SDI success
61-100 is SDI failure

So 3 nukes hit Keshav, 1 was blocked.
[/quote]

Not so much refused as strictly forbidden to act in a GM capacity in circumstances with self interest involved by the powers that be. I'm sure you'll understand.

[Triyun]

[quote name='king of cochin' timestamp='1295182795' post='2577075']
The North Korean example provided herewith consists principally of Anti Aircraft Artillery with ranges/maximum altitude from between 5 km to 15 kms for the 100mm KS19. Most of these are obsolete weapons however their volume of fire is still lethal. With such a high density of AAA a very effective air saturation can be achieved which would be fatal for any terrain hugging missile which is flying below the effective tactical ceiling of 5000 meters. With sufficient missile alert, if all these AAAs fire together, yes, interdiction similar to what Kankou said is possible.

Though these are low tech with very low kill ratio by itself, its combined effect would provide quite effective Air defense.
[/quote]

I have a perhaps odd concern, but it seems to me if something on this order of magnitude was done, in a way that could intercept a large volume of missiles, wouldn't the rounds fired from the AA shells when gravity kicks in cause quite a bit of damage in and of itself

[AironthFlamewing]

^shrapnel for the loss

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1295199053' post='2577269']
I have a perhaps odd concern, but it seems to me if something on this order of magnitude was done, in a way that could intercept a large volume of missiles, wouldn't the rounds fired from the AA shells when gravity kicks in cause quite a bit of damage in and of itself
[/quote]

Yup.

[Zoot Zoot]

[quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1295198463' post='2577256']
Not so much refused as strictly forbidden to act in a GM capacity in circumstances with self interest involved by the powers that be. I'm sure you'll understand.
[/quote]

Then the GM's should commit to the jobs empowered to them by the Admins instead of not doing rolls for obvious reasons, and point blank refusing to to them.