The Third Court

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1295241544' post='2578305']
My point still stands, if its public, then it [i]will[/i] end up on the internet, and at least one person in Labrador [i]will[/i] notice it and [i]will[/i] spread the news to the government.
[/quote]

Except he RP'd none of that, which means it DIDN'T.

And they are my citizens. If someone told you to get the hell out of a city because you could be nuked, I'm sure you'd do it too. I prefer to think of them as "smart" instead of "ultra-obedient".

Edited January 17, 2011 by Pravus Ingruo

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' timestamp='1295241612' post='2578307']
Except he RP'd none of that, which means it DIDN'T.
[/quote]
Who has the time or energy to RP every little thing?

Applying your logic to this:

Someone: "I'm going to invade you with over 300,000 soldiers and expect little resistance!"

Me: "What? I have a military, dur."

Someone: "You never RPed it out! Nor did you RP any vehicles or bases. Therefore, you don't have one, or a least a very crippled military! Steamrolling time!"

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' timestamp='1295241612' post='2578307']
Except he RP'd none of that, which means it DIDN'T.

And they are my citizens. If someone told you to get the hell out of a city because you could be nuked, I'm sure you'd do it too. I prefer to think of them as "smart" instead of "ultra-obedient".
[/quote]

Except at least one person is bound to post what is happening on Facebook or Twitter on his/her smartphone, especially attention addicts. Your media is also definitely going to notice the mass evacuation and broadcast it unless if you issued gag orders. Have you seen the US military and its lovely habit of twittering away? Or people in RL twittering or posting every, single, simple, action, such as, "Bought soda today." or "Going to bed."

Edited January 17, 2011 by HHAYD

[Fizzydog]

I call RP impossibility then. Humans aren't perfect. Hey, ever heard of cell phones? Becky decided to tweet she was being evacuated (sad face) and now it ends up all over the internet. And there is NO way everyone will keep so hush hush about an ultra-life altering event. Not possible. Unless your people are robots and follow your every bidding.

[Fizzydog]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1295241829' post='2578310']
Who has the time or energy to RP every little thing?

Applying your logic to this:

Someone: "I'm going to invade you with over 300,000 soldiers and expect little resistance!"

Me: "What? I have a military, dur."

Someone: "You never RPed it out! Nor did you RP any vehicles or bases. Therefore, you don't have one, or a least a very crippled military! Steamrolling time!"
[/quote]
A better one, because that one has happened to me:

Random: *makes announcement*

Me: *Declares war*

Random: NUH UH! You didn't RP recognizing me so you can't do that!

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1295241829' post='2578310']
Who has the time or energy to RP every little thing?

Applying your logic to this:

Someone: "I'm going to invade you with over 300,000 soldiers and expect little resistance!"

Me: "What? I have a military, dur."

Someone: "You never RPed it out! Nor did you RP any vehicles or bases. Therefore, you don't have one, or a least a very crippled military! Steamrolling time!"
[/quote]

Except you need to RP out a military. Or at least say you have one, etc. Such as mine, it's been RP'd out through multiple wars, training, conflicts. Try to pick an example that doesn't fail next time.

[quote name='Fizzydog' timestamp='1295241849' post='2578311']
I call RP impossibility then. Humans aren't perfect. Hey, ever heard of cell phones? Becky decided to tweet she was being evacuated (sad face) and now it ends up all over the internet. And there is NO way everyone will keep so hush hush about an ultra-life altering event. Not possible. Unless your people are robots and follow your every bidding.
[/quote]

It's been done before. Multiple times. With multiple groups of people. And my nation would facilitate that more. For a long, long time I've RP'd my nation as living under almost-martial law. The presses seem free but are restricted. As is the Internet, cell phones, etc. The government controls everything, behind the scenes. If they wanted to shut off all word of the evacuation, they could do it. Who are you to tell me how to RP my nation?

My point remains, you never RP'd getting the information and none would have gotten out. You never did anything with sats. Therefore, your post was metagaming.

[Fizzydog]

So, gossip in your Northern states wouldn't have reached me? Erm, who's to say your citizens don't have friends in Labrador? What if they called them to tell them what was going on? In a crisis like this the chacnes of controlling EVERYTHING (telephones, internet, human speech) is impossible. Everything has to go YOUR way every time. Stop being such a whiny baby.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

*just.. facepalms* Please.. EM, Sargun.. someone get a leash on this.

[king of cochin]

If there is a public broadcast it will leak out. It does not need any special RP, it can be assumed. Not every aspect of the nations are RPd here are they? Is the sewage system of the cities RPd out? If not, is it to be assumed that it is not there?

Similarly for a nation does it have to be explicitly said that it has a telephone system? If not ICly said do we assume they do not have telephones?

Edit: What Fizzy has based his RP on is pure common sense. No nation is completely isolated.

Edited January 17, 2011 by king of cochin

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Fizzydog' timestamp='1295242204' post='2578320']
So, gossip in your Northern states wouldn't have reached me? Erm, who's to say your citizens don't have friends in Labrador? What if they called them to tell them what was going on? In a crisis like this the chacnes of controlling EVERYTHING (telephones, internet, human speech) is impossible. Everything has to go YOUR way every time. Stop being such a whiny baby.
[/quote]
He could have cut off all communications other than the TV broadcast, though at least one person decides to drive to one of his/her relatives' home that has internet and post what happened instead of heading to a refugee camp. Its bound to happen as it is not possible to ensure everyone follows your orders. There will be idiots who decide to disobey orders, especially ones that felt it was just another false alarm.

It's also impossible to ensure the TV signals do not leave the country unless if there are numerous powerful radio jammers stationed next to the border.

Edited January 17, 2011 by HHAYD

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='Fizzydog' timestamp='1295242204' post='2578320']
So, gossip in your Northern states wouldn't have reached me? Erm, who's to say your citizens don't have friends in Labrador? What if they called them to tell them what was going on? In a crisis like this the chacnes of controlling EVERYTHING (telephones, internet, human speech) is impossible. Everything has to go YOUR way every time. Stop being such a whiny baby.
[/quote]

My northern states? Oh, you mean York, which is the one most loyal to Emperor Harland? Yeah, no, they wouldn't have said anything. And guess what? York (the forerunner to Pravus Ingruo) was FOUNDED by a media mogul... it was built on a media empire, on controlling information and controlling it effectively. So yes, they can control everything. They can stop every bit of data from flowing out of the country at a moment's notice. And I can do that because I've RP'd this type of government for a long, long time. As you said before, you should do some research before attacking someone.

Except, HHYAD, since I never RP'd any of my citizens doing that, none of them did. Those are the rules, and have been for a while. Don't like it? Take it up with the rest of the community. But don't complain to me about realism. Because you or Fizzy complaining to me about realism would be the pot calling the kettle black.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Pravus Ingruo

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='king of cochin' timestamp='1295242396' post='2578324']
If there is a public broadcast it will leak out. It does not need any special RP, it can be assumed. Not every aspect of the nations are RPd here are they? Is the sewage system of the cities RPd out? If not, is it to be assumed that it is not there?

Similarly for a nation does it have to be explicitly said that it has a telephone system? If not ICly said do we assume they do not have telephones?

Edit: What Fizzy has based his RP on is pure common sense. No nation is completely isolated.
[/quote]

Except, cochin, as I have stated multiple times, with my nation, it will not due to the government's complete and absolute control on information.

[king of cochin]

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' timestamp='1295242592' post='2578330']
Except, cochin, as I have stated multiple times, with my nation, it will not due to the government's complete and absolute control on information.
[/quote]

On second thought, yes. I forgot about your MediaCorp.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' timestamp='1295242436' post='2578327']
My northern states? Oh, you mean York, which is the one most loyal to Emperor Harland? Yeah, no, they wouldn't have said anything. And guess what? York (the forerunner to Pravus Ingruo) was FOUNDED by a media mogul... it was built on a media empire, on controlling information and controlling it effectively. So yes, they can control everything. They can stop every bit of data from flowing out of the country at a moment's notice. And I can do that because I've RP'd this type of government for a long, long time. As you said before, you should do some research before attacking someone.

Except, HHYAD, since I never RP'd any of my citizens doing that, none of them did. Those are the rules, and have been for a while. Don't like it? Take it up with the rest of the community. But don't complain to me about realism. Because you or Fizzy complaining to me about realism would be the pot calling the kettle black.
[/quote]
[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' timestamp='1295241612' post='2578307']
Except he RP'd none of that, which means it DIDN'T.

And they are my citizens. If someone told you to get the hell out of a city because you could be nuked, I'm sure you'd do it too. [b]I prefer to think of them as "smart" instead of "ultra-obedient".[/b]
[/quote]

Your previous statement contradicts you. Humans are imperfect, they are not robots. They are bound to eventually disobey occasionally. If you still want to RP your perfect humans, would that make it okay for me to RP my soldiers being perfect as well? 100% accuracy even when shooting your soldiers 10 km away with a pistol, endless morale and courage, total geniuses, 100 mph sustained running speed, strength that rivals Superman, etc.

EDIT: Again, it is impossible to ensure none of your TV broadcast signals had entered another country unless if you RPed lots and lots of signal jammers. If you did that, I will notice it ICly when border towns complain of sudden drop in TV/radio/cellphone/WiFi/Bluetooth/etc signals.

Edited January 17, 2011 by HHAYD

[Fizzydog]

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' timestamp='1295242436' post='2578327']
My northern states? Oh, you mean York, which is the one most loyal to Emperor Harland? Yeah, no, they wouldn't have said anything. And guess what? York (the forerunner to Pravus Ingruo) was FOUNDED by a media mogul... it was built on a media empire, on controlling information and controlling it effectively. So yes, they can control everything. They can stop every bit of data from flowing out of the country at a moment's notice. And I can do that because I've RP'd this type of government for a long, long time. As you said before, you should do some research before attacking someone.

Except, HHYAD, since I never RP'd any of my citizens doing that, none of them did. Those are the rules, and have been for a while. Don't like it? Take it up with the rest of the community. But don't complain to me about realism. Because you or Fizzy complaining to me about realism would be the pot calling the kettle black.
[/quote]
For god's sake, what is wrong with you? Can't you just RP out consequences of nuclear attacks? Wouldn't it make CNRP more interesting?

So, your saying that York, your most loyal state, is 100% loyalists? Alright, an offtopic side not, but Labrador was 98% loyalists (at least 98% supported the government) so RPing them as perfectly happy being under occupation would be extremely unrealistic.

Oh, and btw, not everyone is loyal. I'm sure propaganda filled North Korea hs its fair share of rebels.

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1295242796' post='2578335']
Your previous statement contradicts you. Humans are imperfect, they are not robots. They are bound to eventually disobey occasionally. If you still want to RP your perfect humans, would that make it okay for me to RP my soldiers being perfect as well? 100% accuracy even when shooting your soldiers 10 km away with a pistol, endless morale and courage, total geniuses, 100 mph sustained running speed, strength that rivals Superman, etc.
[/quote]

They actually don't contradict at all. I said they are loyal, and that I prefer to think of them as smart instead of ultra-obedient. If the Emperor told them all to shoot themselves, they wouldn't do it. But they are loyal to their great leader to a fault. I can RP my citizens however I want, within normal physical guidelines. Therefore, your soldiers couldn't hit someone 10km away with a pistol (their bullets don't travel that far), cannot run 100mph, and cannot have Superman-esque strength. You cannot break physics.

[quote name='Fizzydog' timestamp='1295242829' post='2578336']
For god's sake, what is wrong with you? Can't you just RP out consequences of nuclear attacks? Wouldn't it make CNRP more interesting?

So, your saying that York, your most loyal state, is 100% loyalists? Alright, an offtopic side not, but Labrador was 98% loyalists (at least 98% supported the government) so RPing them as perfectly happy being under occupation would be extremely unrealistic.

Oh, and btw, not everyone is loyal. I'm sure propaganda filled North Korea hs its fair share of rebels.
[/quote]

First of all, none of them have even hit yet, so there are no damages to RP out. I will not RP any damages until a GM rules on my complaint and rolls my three tries for my SDI. If you want me to RP damages now, you're just loony.

Further, I haven't even started my occupation of Labrador yet. No, I don't expect everything to be peaceful, but that's for me to RP out now and not you since you gave up all RP claim to the nation once you left.

[Fizzydog]

Can you pay attention to my actual point, that NOT EVERYONE IS LOYAL?

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' timestamp='1295243196' post='2578340']
They actually don't contradict at all. I said they are loyal, and that I prefer to think of them as smart instead of ultra-obedient. If the Emperor told them all to shoot themselves, they wouldn't do it. But they are loyal to their great leader to a fault. I can RP my citizens however I want, within normal physical guidelines. Therefore, your soldiers couldn't hit someone 10km away with a pistol (their bullets don't travel that far), cannot run 100mph, and cannot have Superman-esque strength. [b]You cannot break physics.[/b]
[/quote]
Your breaking the basic human psychology, and that can not be broken unless if all of your citizens are a different specie.

Edited January 17, 2011 by HHAYD

[Sargun II]

In any case of extremes, these are the rules of thumb:

Always rule in favour of game mechanics in cases of nuclear weapons, improvements, etc.
Always rule in favour of the tech cap in cases of extreme tech, etc.
[b]Always rule in favour of common sense in any other extreme case.[/b]

It has been noted before that you do not have to RP everything about your nation. Yes, it has been ruled that nobody can control your citizens. But at the same time, you can't simply say that your entire nation went against the very fibre of human civilisation, that is to say, communication. People talk, text, send information wired or wirelessly, etc., during every hour of every day. Even in a nation that claims it controls all the data that flows in and out, like China, still can't hide the fact that a single person with a camera can escape even the most oppressive of media blackouts.

It is extremely unreasonable to think that not a single person talked, it is extremely unreasonable to think that not a single person noticed that their calls into the Empire of Pravus Ingruo were not being returned, or were being ignored, or were blocked. It is extremely unreasonable to think that nobody in the embassies of the Empire would have noticed the mass evacuations going on. I fully agree that a person's people should be their own to RP as they see fit. But this is patently ridiculous.

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='Sargun' timestamp='1295243379' post='2578345']
In any case of extremes, these are the rules of thumb:

Always rule in favour of game mechanics in cases of nuclear weapons, improvements, etc.
Always rule in favour of the tech cap in cases of extreme tech, etc.
[b]Always rule in favour of common sense in any other extreme case.[/b]

It has been noted before that you do not have to RP everything about your nation. Yes, it has been ruled that nobody can control your citizens. But at the same time, you can't simply say that your entire nation went against the very fibre of human civilisation, that is to say, communication. People talk, text, send information wired or wirelessly, etc., during every hour of every day. Even in a nation that claims it controls all the data that flows in and out, like China, still can't hide the fact that a single person with a camera can escape even the most oppressive of media blackouts.

It is extremely unreasonable to think that not a single person talked, it is extremely unreasonable to think that not a single person noticed that their calls into the Empire of Pravus Ingruo were not being returned, or were being ignored, or were blocked. It is extremely unreasonable to think that nobody in the embassies of the Empire would have noticed the mass evacuations going on. I fully agree that a person's people should be their own to RP as they see fit. But this is patently ridiculous.
[/quote]

They can notice their calls not being returned all they want, but that still doesn't mean that they know the cities have been evacuated. All the internet accessed by citizens in the Empire is through firewalls on servers housed inside the Empire. The Empire can cut off this access to the outside world at any time, simply by shutting down the servers. They also can block all cell phone and landline access. MediaCorp controls the media, so nothing is getting out that way. Further I have no embassies in my country, so there is nothing for foreign diplomats to have noticed.

This is a long-standing RP in my country. This has the equivalent of almost an RP DECADE behind it. I would ask that the ruling be reconsidered in light of my long-standing RP.

Further, three rolls still need to be done.

[Fizzydog]

You're still making absurd claims. There is always the possibility of a leak. Decade shmecade, you can't completely suppress your citizens. And they obviously aren't smart at all if they don't know they are being under constant survellience and censorship by the government.

[Fizzydog]

Ooh even better. A national crisis inside their own nation and they don't know of it.


Is gossip non existant in your nation too?

[Michael McBride]

Since you asked for them, Sargun, unedited logs from the convo today where Zoot brought up this very thing, AFTER Fizzy had said he was launching two at NYC and one at DC, about him changing targets to hit civilians. And, lo and behold, it happens.

[quote][b] 01[21:49] <&SirMichaelHarland> And Zoot, it really doesn't matter
[21:49] <+michigans_own[NoR]> my comment was OOC
01[21:49] <&SirMichaelHarland> All my major cities were evacuated during teh Monaco crisis
[21:49] <+michigans_own[NoR]> he cant use it against me
01[21:49] <&SirMichaelHarland> And the citizens haven't been sent back yet[/b]
[21:49] <%KaiserMelech> What are we talking about?
[b] 01[21:49] <&SirMichaelHarland> casualties will be very, very minor
[21:50] <+Zoot> No worries SMH, just what I thought was happening lol. Im giving this talk a Miss[/b]
[21:50] <+Timmy|OcUK|> Sheldon won a golden globe!
[21:50] <%KaiserMelech> From Big Bang Theory
[21:50] <+cochin> sidney sheldon?
[b][size=4][21:50] <+Zoot> He could just hit the places your civilians were sent too lol[/size][/b]
[21:50] <+Timmy|OcUK|> From the big bang theory yea
[b] 01[21:51] <&SirMichaelHarland> except he already said he was launching them at NYC and DC
01[21:51] <&SirMichaelHarland> to do otherwise now would be metagaming[/b]
[21:52] <+Timmy|OcUK|> Pretty much
[21:52] <+cochin> "Big Bang Theory" - The new production from Bangbros
[21:52] <%KaiserMelech> I love the big bang theory
[21:52] <%KaiserMelech> It's hilarious
[21:52] <+Timmy|OcUK|> Yea it;s good
[b][21:52] <+Zoot> It's not metagaming as already stated. He needs to attck before he gets rolls.[/b]
[21:52] <+cochin> yeah I like the Big Bang theory too, though I think the Pulsating Universe Theory is more fun,
[b][21:53] <+Zoot> So, his post is void[/b]
[21:53] <+michigans_own[NoR]> same melech
[b] 01[21:53] <&SirMichaelHarland> The locations aren't void. He's stated where he will launch them already. If he changes that because of OOC knowledge, it's metagaming
[21:54] <+Zoot> But nobody has told him asfaik, so it's not OOC if he uses the IC role-play you provided
01[21:55] <&SirMichaelHarland> It would still be metagaming if he "conveniently" changed his targets suddenly after posting them already
[21:56] <+Zoot> In your point of view. IMO his post and targets are void after his rolls were denied for lack of attack[/b]
[/quote]

Also, screenshot.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/That_Bum/sslogs.png[/img]

Edited January 17, 2011 by Pravus Ingruo

[Fizzydog]

You really go to the extremes just to show you are a whiny child who has to get his won way every time, huh?

[Sargun II]

Aaaaand...

I told SMH I wouldn't rule until the morning, but now that Fizzydog mentions it...

Sorry. I'm in favour of SMH. His prior RP trumps my concerns, although I will be talking to him about his 100% covered stuff. I can't just retcon it, though, so I will not push my concerns until after this is over.

[Fizzydog]

I'm still going with my stance that nothing this big can stay unleaked.


I mean come on, 100% coverage? There is no such thing as 100%.