Joint VE/GOONS Announcement

[Creeping Death]

Cheers to a bright new future

[KainIIIC]

Welp, politics sure does create strange bedfellows. Not terribly surprising, all things considered though, per Sal.

[Prodigal Moon]

[quote name='Kayvaan Shrike' timestamp='1282611512' post='2428384']
It's understandable that many people are surprised and confused by this treaty - it does appear to be quite an unlikely pairing.

What isn't understandable is that many people seem to support the idea that the Entente is in the wrong here, and that by signing a treaty with an alliance that doesn't share 110% of Viridia's own viewpoint on various CN-related topics of discussion (like Tech Raiding), Viridia itself is compromising its own morality. Where in the rules does it say we cannot have friends who have different opinions on certain aspects of CN? Where is it written that by signing a treaty with an alliance that's different than your own, you yourself forfeit your own morality; your own point-of-view? Where is it chiseled in stone that friends must be the exact mirror of each other when juxtaposed?[/quote]
First: Why don't you guys drop this whole straw man of "Who says we have to agree 110%??" I dare you to point to another alliance in the top 100 - not including other allies of GOONS - that is less compatible with the moral viewpoint that VE has traditionally demonstrated.

Second: No one's arguing about friendship here, especially not the kind of friendship that's easily established in informal (OOC: I mean OOC) discussion. We're talking about military support.

[quote name='Kayvaan Shrike']Viridia has found a friend in GOONS; a friend that many alliances in CN would be honored to have. And while we have our differences ... so what? We believe what we believe, and they believe what they believe. We don't argue over each other's beliefs, so I honestly cannot see why those who aren't even members of the Entente or the GOONS find the need to argue over our differences for us. The beliefs of the GOONS don't compromise the beliefs of Viridia, and vice versa. It's ridiculous to believe that they do, yet sadly, many people seem to have fallen to that special level of idiocy - a level from which they may never return.[/quote]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano']We talked with GOONS for about 4 months before even getting to the ODP level. You should know us better then to think we would sign anything with them if there was a semblance of meaningful and material similarity between their modern incarnation and that of the past.[/quote]
So is it that you can offer military support even though you have serious differences, or there aren't any meaningful differences between VE and GOONS?

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1282612372' post='2428408']
I didn't knew that Polaris disbanded and GOONS was one of the main reasons that made it happen.
[/quote]

Where did I say that? Do you know how to read?

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282611681' post='2428389']
[color="#0000FF"]You're right. That VE is dead, although I don't believe the NpO had anything to do with its demise. You can't blame them for all your failings you know.[/color]
[/quote]

I was talking about GOONS (the first).

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1282612647' post='2428423']
First: Why don't you guys drop this whole straw man of "Who says we have to agree 110%??" I dare you to point to another alliance in the top 100 - not including other allies of GOONS - that is less compatible with the moral viewpoint that VE has traditionally demonstrated.
[/quote]

Being a moralist doesn't mean that you're just against raiding.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Mr Damsky

[Letum]

Seems kind of redundant to have both optional defence and optional aggression. The latter would normally be able to cover the former.

But congrats on your OADP anyways.

[Creeping Death]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1282613233' post='2428441']
Seems kind of redundant to have both optional defence and optional aggression. The latter would normally be able to cover the former.

But congrats on your OADP anyways.
[/quote]

Appreciate the support.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1282612372' post='2428408']
I didn't knew that Polaris disbanded and GOONS was one of the main reasons that made it happen. In fact Polaris protected GOONS when they came back, this just show that we can be magnanimous with our defeated enemies, and I think you remember that when GOONS came back they said "We aren't like the old GOONS" and with this they fooled some people, may be Polaris included,
[/quote]
We "fooled" nobody, our falling out was with Grub and we can certainly be forgiven in that. Don't dredge up history you don't know the entirety of. We wished to remain friends with Polaris but Grub's actions, including but not limited to canceling the treaty briefly without even ATTEMPTING to talk to us, made that impossible. We saved the treaty temporarily, but after further discussion we knew it wasn't going to work out. Your ruminations about tech raiding never came into the equation. Basically it is poorly informed at best to equate us with the old GOONS, especially given the scope of our diplomatic record.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Sardonic

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1282613347' post='2428447']
Basically it is poorly informed at best to equate us with the old GOONS, especially given the scope of our diplomatic record.
[/quote]
True; old GOONS wouldn't have gotten shown up by Nemesis.

[Creeping Death]

Old GOONS also would have put you on the ZI list for that little comment in accordance to Shark Week. I'd appreciate that they're not around.

[DictatatorDan]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1282613347' post='2428447']
We "fooled" nobody, our falling out was with Grub and we can certainly be forgiven in that. Don't dredge up history you don't know the entirety of. We wished to remain friends with Polaris but Grub's actions, including but not limited to canceling the treaty briefly without even ATTEMPTING to talk to us, made that impossible. We saved the treaty temporarily, but after further discussion we knew it wasn't going to work out. Your ruminations about tech raiding never came into the equation. Basically it is poorly informed at best to equate us with the old GOONS, especially given the scope of our diplomatic record.
[/quote]
[color="#FF0000"]Don't worry. D34th doesn't draw conclusions based on facts or evidence. He merely acts as the voulantary mouthpiece of shaky Polaris mythology.[/color]

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Creeping Death' timestamp='1282613596' post='2428458']
Old GOONS also would have put you on the ZI list for that little comment in accordance to Shark Week. I'd appreciate that they're not around.
[/quote]
I think the difference in policies between GOONS is more of a show of their political power disparity than anything else.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' timestamp='1282613467' post='2428451']
True; old GOONS wouldn't have gotten shown up by Nemesis.
[/quote]
Yes, Nemesis sure showed us when we ignored their threats and proceeded with our outstanding mandates.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1282612647' post='2428423']
So is it that you can offer military support even though you have serious differences, or there aren't any meaningful differences between VE and GOONS?
[/quote]

The symbol at the top of the OP is a the ying and yang. I believe that should answer your question.

[D34th]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1282613347' post='2428447']
We "fooled" nobody, our falling out was with Grub and we can certainly be forgiven in that. Don't dredge up history you don't know the entirety of. We wished to remain friends with Polaris but Grub's actions, including but not limited to canceling the treaty briefly without even ATTEMPTING to talk to us, made that impossible. We saved the treaty temporarily, but after further discussion we knew it wasn't going to work out. Your ruminations about tech raiding never came into the equation. Basically it is poorly informed at best to equate us with the old GOONS, especially given the scope of our diplomatic record.
[/quote]

When I said that your alliance "fooled some people, may be Polaris included" I wasn't talking about our treaty, I was talking about the new GOONS not being so different of the old one.

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='Creeping Death' timestamp='1282613596' post='2428458']
Old GOONS also would have put you on the ZI list for that little comment in accordance to Shark Week. I'd appreciate that they're not around.
[/quote]

It's so cute to see a Viridian make veiled goonie threats.

/I lol'd.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1282613799' post='2428465']
The symbol at the top of the OP is a the ying and yang. I believe that should answer your question.
[/quote]

VE's yin done got shanghai'd.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Bavaricar

[Bryne Farrior]

Alliances are organic and evolve accordingly. I don't know why so many insist on clinging to their prejudices and past conceptions so vehemently.

Cheers GOONS, let's hope this grows into a fruitful relationship with lots of kiddies and pets.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282614140' post='2428474']
It's so cute to see a Viridian make veiled goonie threats.

/I lol'd.
[/quote]

I don't think he made a threat.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Bryne Farrior' timestamp='1282614420' post='2428480']
Alliances are organic and evolve accordingly. I don't know why so many insist on clinging to their prejudices and past conceptions so vehemently.

Cheers GOONS, let's hope this grows into a fruitful relationship with lots of kiddies and pets.
[/quote]
I could not agree more, this is a great day. I am sure this relationship will only grow with time.

[Argin]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282605716' post='2428255']
[color="#0000FF"]VE has abandoned its past as an alliance of virtue over the last year, preferring instead to brand itself as some sort of tough guy alliance that doesn't care what you think. It has fallen along way from the VE of old, and does a great deal of dishonor to the name of a great alliance.[/color]
[/quote]


It's funny I remember people acting similarly when we were the first alliance to sign a treaty with NPO post-GWI, while at the same time we were seriously considering merging with CDS, an alliance completely on the other side of the political spectrum; and as far as I remember that treaty was signed within the first year of our existence.

The truth is that VE's values and beliefs have not changed, we've always been willing to be allies with anyone regardless of their moral views or political standing, the only thing that has changed is that it is no longer in your political interest to support what we or GOONS do.

I pray that these values of Viridia last till its end and that her membership never gives up her beliefs in the face of politically motivated, uneducated, and false statements made by propagandists such as yourself. And I say all of this as someone who did not even support this treaty.

o/ GOONS
o/ VE

May our relationship thrive GOONS, I look forward to having an opportunity to defend you.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Argin

[Bergerland]

I would say that I'm disappointed with the reception this treaty has received, thinking that people might be able to see past a sad label of GOONS , but this is really expected. GOONS, you're cool people and I'm glad to be able to call you an ally.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Bergerland' timestamp='1282614805' post='2428494']
I would say that I'm disappointed with the reception this treaty has received, thinking that people might be able to see past a sad label of GOONS , but this is really expected. GOONS, you're cool people and I'm glad to be able to call you an ally.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I know I was willing to give GOONS a shot at first, but they've already proven their character. Tech raiding is one thing. Forcing nations to embarrass themselves in order to get peace for a raid is quite another. The fact you so readily embrace GOONS says quite a bit about VE.[/color]

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1282614440' post='2428481']
I don't think he made a threat.
[/quote]

Of course you don't.

You know Mr Damsky, you also really should thank your lucky stars that some alliances heavily tied into the Superfriends and C&G webs do not roll you for sharing [b]your[/b] views here.

[Free Quebec]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1282610661' post='2428369']
Egore should be really happy, after all VE is treating the alliance who was one of the main reason of their disbandment.
[/quote]

Maybe Egore would laugh that someone from the alliance that sat by and watched disbandment happen, now tries to tell us what Egore would think.

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='Free Quebec' timestamp='1282615098' post='2428505']
Maybe Egore would laugh that someone from the alliance that sat by and watched disbandment happen, now tries to tell us what Egore would think.
[/quote]

There should be a prize for this level of ignorance. The NpO did not participate in the Viridicide like the GOONS did AND they helped the 2nd VE reform. I mean wow, really? What are they teaching kids in school these days?