Joint VE/GOONS Announcement

[Argin]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282616603' post='2428571']
There's more to the Viridicide history and everyone in here knows it or should know it. As for me, I like how several of you want to change the record from "objected to the war and did not participate" to "sat by and watched." I also get a kick out of how the 2nd VE wants to write the NpO out of their founding history.

Meh?
[/quote]


I was part of the Viridicide and I think I understand fairly well the history of that time. No one is trying to erase NpO from VE's history but there's a oft-used quote in VE that goes something like this "You're past actions with us do not guarantee a future with us," the opposite of this quote applies as well.

[Free Quebec]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1282616625' post='2428573']
If everyone goes crazy doesn't mean that is the right thing to do, or may be I'm more stubborn than you.

Also I'm not criticizing for PR reasons, what would I win with it? I think is annoying this trend that everyone says that because you criticize an alliance in their treaty announcement is for PR reasons, what people expect? That they announce their treaty and everyone mindless hails their decision? If VE doesn't like critics so doesn't bring your announcements here.
[/quote]

I am not everyone, I am me.
This is not about hails, is about someone who has no connection that thinks they can quote VE history and tell them how it makes them feel.

[Creeping Death]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282616603' post='2428571']
There's more to the Viridicide history and everyone in here knows it or should know it. As for me, I like how several of you want to change the record from "objected to the war and did not participate" to "sat by and watched." I also get a kick out of how the 2nd VE wants to write the NpO out of their founding history.

Meh?
[/quote]

Really?

More to the Viridicide? Which side would that be that's holding out reasoning's? I think we all know what had happened. We all could obviously see what happened. Also, Viridia is very grateful for what Polaris did to help us. Yet if Viridia 2.0 was not to have Polaris protection when it started how long do you think it could have lasted until it was piled on for destabilizing the green sphere again.

[Omniscient1]

Congrats to GOONS on getting wonderful allies in VE.

[Argin]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282616235' post='2428552']
[color="#0000FF"]Believe me, the fact that we're at war has nothing to do with my feelings toward VE. I've not been overly fond of your alliance for a long time, and my feelings about GOD are much stronger. Despite this war, on the other hand, I still have a fair amount of respect for RnR and RoK. Wonder why. Can't have anything to do with the way they conduct themselves can it?

As for my opinions, I doubt they will influence your policy, but I will voice them nonetheless. I could care less if you like what you hear.[/color]


[color="#0000FF"]What kind of rubbish is this? Effort for peace? Going to you and talking to you is not showing enough effort to end a war that [i]you started[/i]. Please, I'm not stupid. I know exactly what you're doing with your "Mercy" Board and so do you. The only people buying into this delusion are you and those who find it useful to keep thugs like yourself around.[/color]
[/quote]

Why do you refuse to respond to me, does my mere presence leave you speechless?

[The MVP]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1282605809' post='2428257']
Hey, three mentions before I even read the thread!

Let this treaty be a lesson to all of you, moralists and non-moralists can get on fine together. It shouldn't surprise you as much as it seems to have done, after all quite a few of VE's previous treaty partners are not moralist either, and nor are several of my personal treaties through history.
[/quote]

I never really regarded you as a moralist. I saw you more of a, "I tried everything I could, don't support them or what they're doing one bit!.. yet will fight it out with them anyways" type character.

Well c'mon.. you know.

Edited August 24, 2010 by The MVP

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Argin' timestamp='1282617097' post='2428607']
Why do you refuse to respond to me, does my mere presence leave you speechless?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]No, you simply have nothing worthwhile to say. VE was a different alliance in 2006 and 2007. It was respectable in those days, and for brief interludes in the following two years depending on the Lord. But you haven't had a decent one in long, long while, and I've had a deep hatred of you ever since you became a tough guy alliance. I hate tough guys.[/color]

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='Argin' timestamp='1282616891' post='2428594']I was part of the Viridicide and I think I understand fairly well the history of that time. No one is trying to erase NpO from VE's history but there's a oft-used quote in VE that goes something like this "You're past actions with us do not guarantee a future with us," the opposite of this quote applies as well.
[/quote]

Your future actions do not guarantee a past with us?

Seriously, I think I know what you are trying to say. A person's or an alliance's past actions don't mean squat to you. Well now, that explains this treaty now and no doubt others to follow in the future, so we are all good.

You know... with that reasoning, maybe you also should have approached Bilrow to get his signature on this treaty?


Oh and creeping death, seeing your latest post above on post preview, I really am not sure what your point is. No offense meant, I just don't understand what you are arguing now.

[Argin]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282617462' post='2428620']
[color="#0000FF"]No, you simply have nothing worthwhile to say. VE was a different alliance in 2006 and 2007. It was respectable in those days, and for brief interludes in the following two years depending on the Lord. But you haven't had a decent one in long, long while, and I've had a deep hatred of you ever since you became a tough guy alliance. I hate tough guys.[/color]
[/quote]


So when faced with facts that contradict what you have said you simply disregard them as not worthwhile? As someone who was lord of the VE between 2006 and 2007 let me assure your fears and say again the VE has not changed, your political interests have.

[Creeping Death]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282617569' post='2428628']
Your future actions do not guarantee a past with us?

Seriously, I think I know what you are trying to say. A person's or an alliance's past actions don't mean squat to you. Well now, that explains this treaty now and no doubt others to follow in the future, so we are all good.

You know... with that reasoning, maybe you also should have approached Bilrow to get his signature on this treaty?


Oh and creeping death, seeing your latest post above on post preview, I really am not sure what your point is. No offense meant, I just don't understand what you are arguing now.
[/quote]

What is hidden about the Viridicide claimed in your previous post.

[Argin]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282617569' post='2428628']


A person's or an alliance's past actions don't mean squat to you.
[/quote]

If you're truley curios, no, that is not the meaning. The meaning of the quote is that all problems of the past can be resolved and that good relations in the past do not guarantee good relations in the future. All of our actions are based on the facts of the present.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Argin

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='Creeping Death' timestamp='1282617735' post='2428635']
What is hidden about the Viridicide claimed in your previous post.
[/quote]

That was simply a reference to the selective recounting of the history of the GOONS 1.0 and VE I and II I was picking up on in here.

[quote name='Argin' timestamp='1282618024' post='2428641']
If you're truley curios, no, that is not the meaning. The meaning of the quote is that all problems of the past can be resolved and that good relations in the past do not guarantee good relations in the future. All of our actions are based on the actions of the present.
[/quote]

Um, that's impossible. Every action one has the capacity to reference is in the past.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Bavaricar

[Buckshorn]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282617462' post='2428620']
[color="#0000FF"]No, you simply have nothing worthwhile to say. VE was a different alliance in 2006 and 2007. It was respectable in those days, and for brief interludes in the following two years depending on the Lord. But you haven't had a decent one in long, long while, and I've had a deep hatred of you ever since you became a tough guy alliance. I hate tough guys.[/color]
[/quote]

After all the things i have seen you banter on about this has got to be one of the funniest! "Tough guy alliance" really? I think our lord Impero is a very trustworthy and honourable leader. You just have a vendetta against VE because of your "beef" with us plus when i look at your AA i wonder what else has you upset?

please give me evidence of this tough guy alliance you see as VE

[kerschbs]

So I am really not very pleased by this announcement. As a former GATO member, I am particularly fond of VE, and find them to be a particularly fine alliance. However, I am personally not much of a fan of GOONs, and as such am not excited to see this treaty signed. Overall, I hope VE knows what they are doing with this signing.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282618027' post='2428644']


Um, that's impossible. Every action one has the capacity to reference is in the past.
[/quote]

You're very dim if you don't understand what he's saying.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Argin' timestamp='1282617711' post='2428633']
So when faced with facts that contradict what you have said you simply disregard them as not worthwhile? As someone who was lord of the VE between 2006 and 2007 let me assure your fears and say again the VE has not changed, your political interests have.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]No, I am saying your facts are irrelevant. The political atmosphere was much different, and neither CDS nor the NPO of the time could be considered scum alliances. The same cannot be said for GOONS. As for VE, VE was not afraid to stand up for its principles back then, and it died for those. These days you're just opportunistic cowards hiding behind a curtain of fake virtue. I am not fool.

Also, I have no political interests.[/color]

[The MVP]

[quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1282618095' post='2428646']
So I am really not very pleased by this announcement. As a former GATO member, I am particularly fond of VE, and find them to be a particularly fine alliance. However, I am personally not much of a fan of GOONs, and as such am not excited to see this treaty signed. [b]Overall, I hope VE knows what they are doing with this signing.[/b]
[/quote]

I asked those questions when they re-declared allying to NPO, GGA, IRON, etc.

[Argin]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282618027' post='2428644']

Um, that's impossible. Every action one has the capacity to reference is in the past.
[/quote]

I'm not sure what you're stating, was that in reference to the incorrect word choice in my last post? (Which has been corrected now)

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1282618187' post='2428648']
You're very dim if you don't understand what he's saying.
[/quote]


I winked for a reason.

[quote name='Argin' timestamp='1282618282' post='2428654']
I'm not sure what you're stating, was that in reference to the incorrect word choice in my last post? (Which has been corrected now)
[/quote]

Just me being a smartass.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Bavaricar

[Buckshorn]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282618208' post='2428649']
[color="#0000FF"]No, I am saying your facts are irrelevant. The political atmosphere was much different, and neither CDS nor the NPO of the time could be considered scum alliances. The same cannot be said for GOONS. As for VE, VE was not afraid to stand up for its principles back then, and it died for those. These days you're just opportunistic cowards hiding behind a curtain of fake virtue. I am not fool.

Also, I have no political interests.[/color]
[/quote]

Where is your evidence that we are afraid to stand up for our principles?
Where is the evidence that we are opportunistic?

[Bergerland]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282617569' post='2428628']
Seriously, I think I know what you are trying to say. A person's or an alliance's past actions don't mean squat to you. Well now, that explains this treaty now and no doubt others to follow in the future, so we are all good.[/quote]

Or it means that we are willing to overlook past actions if you're able to show that you've genuinely changed.

[QUOTE]You know... with that reasoning, maybe you also should have approached Bilrow to get his signature on this treaty? [/QUOTE]

Considering that the Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism didn't have anything to do with the viridicide and Bilrow thought up the idea while GGA and used an organized effort to get us to move I don't see the parallel. I do see what you're trying to do though, which is equate them with the old GOONS. To be honest, most of Viridia had about 4 months back as well, so it's understandable that you could see it that way. It just happens to be incorrect.

[DictatatorDan]

[color="#FF0000"]The question that remains to be asked, but hasn't been, is not whether or not VE backpedalled on what many sees as it's own espoused moralism because it is obvious they did, but rather is anyone is genuinly surprised to see it happen?

I for one, am not.[/color]

[Buckshorn]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1282618707' post='2428665']
[color="#FF0000"]The question that remains to be asked, but hasn't been, is not whether or not VE backpedalled on what many sees as it's own espoused moralism because it is obvious they did, but rather is anyone is genuinly surprised to see it happen?

I for one, am not.[/color]
[/quote]

Again where is your evidence or is this lets jump to conclusions and hope i sound clever time?

[Argin]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282618208' post='2428649']
[color="#0000FF"]No, I am saying your facts are irrelevant. The political atmosphere was much different, and neither CDS nor the NPO of the time could be considered scum alliances. The same cannot be said for GOONS.[/quote]

How are facts that directly show the opposite of what you have said irrelevant? And you may not have considered NPO a scum alliance but just about everybody else in CN did, hence VE went against the popular political beliefs of CN and went with it's values, just as it is here.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282618208' post='2428649'] [color="#0000FF"]As for VE, VE was not afraid to stand up for its principles back then, and it died for those. These days you're just opportunistic cowards hiding behind a curtain of fake virtue. I am not fool.
[/quote]

I think it become quite apparent that you have absolutely no idea what VE's principles are so please don't try to give me a history lesson about my own alliance, we fought for our beliefs then and we fight for our beliefs now, just as we did in Karma, just as I am doing right now posting in this thread arguing with you.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282618208' post='2428649'] [color="#0000FF"]Also, I have no political interests.[/color][/quote]

I think it's quite apparent to everyone good sir that your statements include just about no sense of truth, but please if you wish to continue showing everyone just how foolish you are I ask you to continue.

[DictatatorDan]

[quote name='Buckshorn' timestamp='1282618787' post='2428668']
Again where is your evidence or is this lets jump to conclusions and hope i sound clever time?
[/quote]
[color="#FF0000"]Then I suggest your re-read the thread, because VE's hypocrisy has been pointed out time and time again in this thread alone.[/color]