Haflinger Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='Magister Agricolarum' date='06 June 2010 - 12:18 PM' timestamp='1275841098' post='2326353'] That's unrelated to my point, and you're too intelligent not to realize that. [/quote] It's related to mine: and your obsession isn't going to derail that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Agricolarum Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Haflinger' date='06 June 2010 - 12:22 PM' timestamp='1275841317' post='2326361']It's related to mine: and your obsession isn't going to derail that.[/quote] Then, please, set me straight. Here or on IRC, doesn't matter. (Also, [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=80819&st=0&p=2181033&fromsearch=1&#entry2181033]lolobsessions[/url].) Edit: Yeah, I thought not. Edited June 7, 2010 by Magister Agricolarum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kae Lee Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='fluffyewunga' date='05 June 2010 - 07:02 PM' timestamp='1275782555' post='2325321'] I find it strange that less then half a story has becone Gospel truth. Invicta was as much at fault in this as UPN. [/quote] I doubt you find that strange at all, you just don't like being on the other side of it. As for Invicta, of course most of us don't know what went on behind closed doors. But even if it is true that Invicta was at fault, I'd say they paid their dues with about 2M of their NS. UPN shouldn't whine now that they are paying their dues for their choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='itseZe' date='06 June 2010 - 11:52 AM' timestamp='1275839506' post='2326331'] Because all it does is make his argument stronger. If they followed the legal situation exactly as the treaties were written, they'd have to active our MD and you'd have to follow, because none of your treaties were activated yet. Not saying that is what should/shouldn't have happened, but I think you would prefer what actually ended up happening over this. [/quote] I'm not sure how you can say that given that I said in the post that you are replying to that I would have preferred exactly the course that you are suggesting. We would not have been willing to ignore other treaties that got activated later on. That was the breaking point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un4Gvn1 Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='Kae Lee' date='06 June 2010 - 11:49 AM' timestamp='1275842962' post='2326398'] I doubt you find that strange at all, you just don't like being on the other side of it. As for Invicta, of course most of us don't know what went on behind closed doors. But even if it is true that Invicta was at fault, I'd say they paid their dues with about 2M of their NS. UPN shouldn't whine now that they are paying their dues for their choices. [/quote] Where do you see UPN whining? You don't. We've apologized and are working to do the best we can to improve our treaty web so such a situation is less likely to ever occur again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becks For Dinner Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Peggy_Sue' date='06 June 2010 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1275843658' post='2326418'] Where do you see UPN whining? You don't. We've apologized and are working to do the best we can to [b]move to the other side of the treaty web so we don't get curbstomped[/b]. [/quote] Fixed. I'm sure that's what you meant to say. Edited June 8, 2010 by Becks For Dinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey67500 Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 o7 Invicta, you are great people o/ UPN, our allies o/ that other stuff. With great indifference, Joey67500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='04 June 2010 - 11:54 PM' timestamp='1275710037' post='2324118'] Has a MADP ever dropped to a ODP quicker than the one between these two? [/quote] Fell farther, faster: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=26115 It's amusing to see people rip into UPN for doing what it thought was right, for being courteous in the process, and for not dragging Invicta into the side of the war it didn't want to be on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itseZe Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='Haflinger' date='06 June 2010 - 12:55 PM' timestamp='1275843317' post='2326408'] I'm not sure how you can say that given that I said in the post that you are replying to that I would have preferred exactly the course that you are suggesting. We would not have been willing to ignore other treaties that got activated later on. That was the breaking point. [/quote] Alright, I didn't know what exactly you meant with "certain specific targets", but that answer is satisfactory then. Although "would" etc is always a bit of an issue. I think that many of those here claiming that they would have done differently actually would have acted in a similar way. And while such a situation is always a bad one to be in, I would like to see some of them in just such a situation so that they can back their words up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='itseZe' date='06 June 2010 - 02:12 PM' timestamp='1275847913' post='2326490'] Although "would" etc is always a bit of an issue. I think that many of those here claiming that they would have done differently actually would have acted in a similar way. And while such a situation is always a bad one to be in, I would like to see some of them in just such a situation so that they can back their words up. [/quote] Are you really trying to paint Invicta as a group of people looking for the easy way out here? We had options that we could easily have taken, and refused to. That's why we're here now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itseZe Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='Haflinger' date='06 June 2010 - 02:34 PM' timestamp='1275849240' post='2326521'] Are you really trying to paint Invicta as a group of people looking for the easy way out here? We had options that we could easily have taken, and refused to. That's why we're here now. [/quote] This wasn't directed at anyone specifically. There have been numerous people in here, many with even no connection at all to the issues at hand, bashing on this as hard as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='itseZe' date='06 June 2010 - 02:56 PM' timestamp='1275850547' post='2326546'] This wasn't directed at anyone specifically. There have been numerous people in here, many with even no connection at all to the issues at hand, bashing on this as hard as they can. [/quote] There are also a lot of people - yourself included - who seem to think this downgrade is the result of UPN's wartime decisions. It's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itseZe Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='Haflinger' date='06 June 2010 - 03:14 PM' timestamp='1275851679' post='2326573'] There are also a lot of people - yourself included - who seem to think this downgrade is the result of UPN's wartime decisions. It's not. [/quote] I only joined this discussion when it already was offtopic and didn't say anything about the downgrade itself. That being said, I haven't been very helpful in getting it ontopic again So I'll stay out of this now as I said everything that I wanted to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadeslayers09 Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 o/ UPN o/ Invicta I love you both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style #386 Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Haflinger' date='06 June 2010 - 10:58 AM' timestamp='1275836314' post='2326288'] Just a note. If you check the threads at the time, you will find that I was certainly in favour of us entering against certain specific targets. We weren't good with leaving our other allies to fry either though. UPN was. That's why we have an ODP now. However, you really ought to read Purple Haze. The supremacy clause in it overrided all of UPN's other treaties, including the one they had with you. I know you don't like to read treaties, but now might be a good time to start. [/quote] I am pretty decent at reading treaties, thank you. Your concern--albeit touching--would be more appropriate directed elsewhere, perhaps toward your own alliance. The supremacy clause is irrelevant since Invicta's treaty with UPN was not activated (it had no reason to be with neither UPN nor Invicta involved at that point) whereas ODN's was. Points for trying, though. Edited June 6, 2010 by Style #386 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewolfe2015 Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='Haflinger' date='06 June 2010 - 03:14 PM' timestamp='1275851679' post='2326573'] There are also a lot of people - yourself included - who seem to think this downgrade is the result of UPN's wartime decisions. It's not. [/quote] The only way this is true (what you say) is if you are also able to comeback on here, reply to this statement, and say that the treaty would not have been downgraded if UPN had come to your aid in the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdur Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 UPN and Invicta's FA policies drifted apart, that is all. Lets leave it at that, mmk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samotopia Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 I cannot BELIEVE this topic was posted while i was away. I am literally infuriated you all didn't wait for me. Invicta...you should know better than that. Alright...imma just go with the ODNistas are saying, as i think they have it correct. So there is no need for me to repeat them. Also, Magister And with that, i can now quit this game and be happy. It only took UPN 2+ years to realize i was right about Invicta. But oh well. Atleast its not an MDoAP anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samotopia Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) delete please...freakin bad internet here Edited June 7, 2010 by Samotopia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 [quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='06 June 2010 - 07:05 PM' timestamp='1275865541' post='2326914'] The only way this is true (what you say) is if you are also able to comeback on here, reply to this statement, and say that the treaty would not have been downgraded if UPN had come to your aid in the war. [/quote] If UPN had made the same decisions as they did after the war was over, yep, we'd be in exactly the same position now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sci Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 My goodness, some guy who sits at a computer (OOC: Me) lives in Missouri and agrees ENTIRETY that Jay Nixon is a complete idiot and moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sci Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) EDIT: Sorry for double post. It was an accident. Edited June 7, 2010 by Sir Sci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProdigyNL Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 [quote name='Samotopia' date='07 June 2010 - 03:06 AM' timestamp='1275872789' post='2327053'] And with that, i can now quit this game and be happy. It only took UPN 2+ years to realize i was right about Invicta. But oh well. Atleast its not an MDoAP anymore. [/quote] You better not quit this game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un4Gvn1 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 [quote name='Sir Sci' date='06 June 2010 - 11:04 PM' timestamp='1275883432' post='2327341'] My goodness, some guy who sits at a computer (OOC: Me) lives in Missouri and agrees ENTIRETY that Jay Nixon is a complete idiot and moron. [/quote] The more I learn about GATO and her good people the more I LOVE GATO and her good people! [u]For the backseat drivers among us:[/u] Shortly after the war Invicta downgraded our MADP to an MDoAP. That was the result of the war decisions. Fast forward a couple of months ... it became clear that UPN's foreign affairs direction was taking us down one "Y" of the road while Invicta headed down the other "Y" of the road. It also became clear that CDT's foreign affairs direction was diverging from the direction Invicta wanted to go. Invicta withdrew from CDT then we downgraded the treaty to better reflect our foreign affairs paths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M6 Redneck Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 UPN are still poor allies though. Turning your back on your closest friend is what it is. Maybe you can go on and erase this stain. But I would still not touch you with a long barge pole. \M/6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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