a World Federation announcement

[mythicknight]

Well this is interesting. Keep it thick, JB.

[Paladin Kiwi]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='25 April 2010 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1272247542' post='2275257']
I refer you to my previous statement where I disproved what you just said, only I used facts, rather than outright lies. You may find it [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84700&view=findpost&p=2275017"]here.[/url]
[/quote]
So, by your logic, if any member of GGA say they're declaring war on, oh, I don't know, RGN, it automatically becomes what you call "fact"?

[The Compound]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='26 April 2010 - 03:06 AM' timestamp='1272247542' post='2275257']
I refer you to my previous statement where I disproved what you just said, only I used facts, rather than outright lies. You may find it [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84700&view=findpost&p=2275017"]here.[/url]
[/quote]
Lol, i like how you use those logs to back your point. I am not gov, i do not represent the actions of the government, what i say does not matter. get over it. Go back to your corner and mope around.

[Paladin Kiwi]

[quote name='The Compound' date='25 April 2010 - 08:11 PM' timestamp='1272247894' post='2275267']
Lol, i like how you use those logs to back your point. I am not gov, i do not represent the actions of the government, what i say does not matter. get over it. Go back to your corner and mope around.
[/quote]
Indeed, his logic is very much flawed. Unacceptable, Jonathan Brookbank.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Paladin Kiwi

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='The Compound' date='26 April 2010 - 03:11 AM' timestamp='1272247894' post='2275267']
Lol, i like how you use those logs to back your point. I am not gov, i do not represent the actions of the government, what i say does not matter. get over it. Go back to your corner and mope around.
[/quote]

so were you doing it to try and trap GGA? or did you just say you weren't protecting them even though you didn't know?

no wait it was for the "lulz" right?

[Paladin Kiwi]

[quote name='Omniscient1' date='25 April 2010 - 08:15 PM' timestamp='1272248136' post='2275277']
so were you doing it to try and trap GGA? or did you just say you weren't protecting them even though you didn't know?

no wait it was for the "lulz" right?
[/quote]
Because you obviously know everything. Could you name every single GATO treaty off the top of your head? If so; congratulations. If not, welcome to normalness.

[Paladin Kiwi]

EDIT: Accidental double post. I guess my last post showed up twice.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Paladin Kiwi

[The Compound]

[quote name='Omniscient1' date='26 April 2010 - 03:15 AM' timestamp='1272248136' post='2275277']
so were you doing it to try and trap GGA? or did you just say you weren't protecting them even though you didn't know?

no wait it was for the "lulz" right?
[/quote]
Actually, you are correct in the assumption it was for the "lulz". I get bored from time to time, and so do interesting things. Nothing more, nothing less. You can try to find some deeper meaning behind what i did. Maybe I did it to boost my self-esteem? Maybe i did it to get jb off my back cause he was annoyingly querying me? Or maybe its part of some huge scheme to take over planet bob. You just never know... Use your imaginations!

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Paladin Kiwi' date='26 April 2010 - 03:18 AM' timestamp='1272248310' post='2275280']
Because you obviously know everything. Could you name every single GATO treaty off the top of your head? If so; congratulations. If not, welcome to normalness.
[/quote]

actualy, I can. It's not that hard.

On subject: If he didn't know though he shouldn't have said they were not protected.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Omniscient1

[Paladin Kiwi]

EDIT: Whoa... why did this post again?

Mods, please remove this and the other post if you can o.O

Edited April 26, 2010 by Paladin Kiwi

[Gerald Meanĕ]

[quote name='The Compound' date='26 April 2010 - 03:11 AM' timestamp='1272247894' post='2275267']
Lol, i like how you use those logs to back your point. I am not gov, i do not represent the actions of the government, what i say does not matter. get over it. Go back to your corner and mope around.
[/quote]

I must say that's rather double edged action man. Do that to someone with connections, and you could cause some bad things happening. If I were gov I'd make sure you know not to do something like that again.

[The Compound]

[quote name='Enrage' date='26 April 2010 - 03:01 AM' timestamp='1272247242' post='2275249']
By having the sovereign of your alliance telling another green team gov to "suck a ****"
[/quote]
++ to that comment.

[Argin]

I'd like to state my personal opinion that this thread does not help any green alliance or green in general at all and it would be best if it were closed.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Argin

[John Diesel]

[quote name='Argin' date='25 April 2010 - 09:34 PM' timestamp='1272249222' post='2275320']
I'd like to state my personal opinion that this thread does not help any green alliance or green in general at all and it would be best if it were closed.

Enrage, if you agree please ask for a mod lock, you can obviously do as you like however.
[/quote]

Of course it would take an old school Viridian to show some class and dignity. Thank you, Argin. I knew that I looked up to you for a reason.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='25 April 2010 - 10:06 PM' timestamp='1272247542' post='2275257']
I refer you to my previous statement where I disproved what you just said, only I used facts, rather than outright lies. You may find it [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84700&view=findpost&p=2275017"]here.[/url]
[/quote]
The only "fact" you've provided is that RGN was not a protected alliance when it was not believed to be under duress. It is perfectly understandable and even commendable that World Federation would intervene to protect another green alliance when the GGA attempts to play bully. You have provided no evidence to back up your claim that the RGN founding members attempted to run off with all your ministers. The very idea that anybody would bother to try and recruit from GGA is beyond me, to be quite honest, so I'm having a very difficult time believing you. I'm also unclear as to what "lies" are being propagated by World Federation, the Entente, or anybody supporting them. You've admitted to declaring war on RGN; the friends who founded RGN admitted to recruiting each other, a task carried out between comrades that can't possibly be restricted or rejected in any reasonable manner.

Oh, and the back and forth invocations of Bilrowian wordplay amuse me well enough but you'd do well to steer clear of them. Declaring the casus belli from the most universally condemned war in CN's history, save maybe NoCB? Are you trying to suggest that because World Federation is protecting a green alliance and because VE would protect World Federation, you'd repeat the mistakes of the past?

Let's face it Brookbank, you're just a Billy without a Moo-Cow who can't just say "yep I'm evil."

Edited April 26, 2010 by Ardus

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='26 April 2010 - 12:58 AM' timestamp='1272239894' post='2275057']
No matter how much you attempt to spread your lies, I will continue to tell the truth.
[/quote]

You cherry picked goldies quote out of context while he was making a historical analogy.

As for my quote, it does not equate to "destabilizing green", but rather was in reference to your attempted manipulation UJA to turn it into a tool which would stop PhR from trolling you, which was instantly met with disgust from the other signatories of the document. While you single handedly stopped all progress within UJA since you took over, that certainly does not mean your destabilizing the whole green sphere. GGA just isn't important enough to do that. Also, before you continue to cherry pick logs to spin your bizarre tale of paranoia, remember there were six other alliances in the room every time you had one of your meltdowns, so telling that tall tale may end up being more difficult then you thought.

However, none of that pertains to this matter. (1) VE is not protecting RGN (2) Compound is not WF government (3) three friends creating an alliance does not constitute recruiting; and (4) no one will accept "leaving without permission" as a valid cause to attack a nation unless it is during wartime, no matter what you have written in your anachronistic charter. Taking a few quotes and painting a large conspiracy theory are not "facts" or "truth" in any way, shape, or form. However, the preceding numbered list undeniably is.

That being said, I'm glad you decided to back down, as I know for a fact WF was not looking for a war with you no matter what you may think.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Il Impero Romano

[Enrage]

Yes, your right, this thread is going nowhere.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Enrage

[Iotupa]

[quote name='Ardus' date='25 April 2010 - 10:45 PM' timestamp='1272249936' post='2275341']
The only "fact" you've provided is that RGN was not a protected alliance when it was not believed to be under duress. It is perfectly understandable and even commendable that World Federation would intervene to protect another green alliance when the GGA attempts to play bully. You have provided no evidence to back up your claim that the RGN founding members attempted to run off with all your ministers. The very idea that anybody would bother to try and recruit from GGA is beyond me, to be quite honest, so I'm having a very difficult time believing you. I'm also unclear as to what "lies" are being propagated by World Federation, the Entente, or anybody supporting them. You've admitted to declaring war on RGN; the friends who founded RGN admitted to recruiting each other, a task carried out between comrades that can't possibly be restricted or rejected in any reasonable manner.

Oh, and the back and forth invocations of Bilrowian wordplay amuse me well enough but you'd do well to steer clear of them. Declaring the casus belli from the most universally condemned war in CN's history, save maybe NoCB? Are you trying to suggest that because World Federation is protecting a green alliance and because VE would protect World Federation, you'd repeat the mistakes of the past?

Let's face it Brookbank, you're just a Billy without a Moo-Cow who can't just say "yep I'm evil."
[/quote]


[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='25 April 2010 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1272250137' post='2275352']
You cherry picked goldies quote out of context while he was making a historical analogy.

As for my quote, it does not equate to "destabilizing green", but rather was in reference to your attempted manipulation UJA to turn it into a tool which would stop PhR from trolling you, which was instantly met with disgust from the other signatories of the document. While you single handedly stopped all progress within UJA since you took over, that certainly does not mean your destabilizing the whole green sphere. GGA just isn't important enough to do that. Also, before you continue to cherry pick logs to spin your bizarre tale of paranoia, remember there were six other alliances in the room every time you had one of your meltdowns, so telling that tall tale may end up being more difficult then you thought.

However, none of that pertains to this matter. (1) VE is not protecting RGN (2) Compound is not WF government (3) three friends creating an alliance does not constitute recruiting; and (4) no one will accept "leaving without permission" as a valid cause to attack a nation unless it is during wartime, no matter what you have written in your anachronistic charter. Taking a few quotes and painting a large conspiracy theory are not "facts" or "truth" in any way, shape, or form. However, the preceding numbered list undeniably is.

That being said, I'm glad you decided to back down, as I know for a fact WF was not looking for a war with you no matter what you may think.
[/quote]

I refer you to my previous statement where I disproved what you just said, only I used facts, rather than outright lies. You may find it [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84700&view=findpost&p=2275017"]here.[/url] The logs prove what I am saying is true, while you have absolutely no proof at all.

[Enrage]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='25 April 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1272250137' post='2275352']
You cherry picked goldies quote out of context while he was making a historical analogy.

As for my quote, it does not equate to "destabilizing green", but rather was in reference to your attempted manipulation UJA to turn it into a tool which would stop PhR from trolling you, which was instantly met with disgust from the other signatories of the document. While you single handedly stopped all progress within UJA since you took over, that certainly does not mean your destabilizing the whole green sphere. GGA just isn't important enough to do that. Also, before you continue to cherry pick logs to spin your bizarre tale of paranoia, remember there were six other alliances in the room every time you had one of your meltdowns, so telling that tall tale may end up being more difficult then you thought.

However, none of that pertains to this matter. (1) VE is not protecting RGN (2) Compound is not WF government (3) three friends creating an alliance does not constitute recruiting; and (4) no one will accept "leaving without permission" as a valid cause to attack a nation unless it is during wartime, no matter what you have written in your anachronistic charter. Taking a few quotes and painting a large conspiracy theory are not "facts" or "truth" in any way, shape, or form. However, the preceding numbered list undeniably is.

That being said, I'm glad you decided to back down, as I know for a fact WF was not looking for a war with you no matter what you may think.
[/quote]

Thats not even half of the story folks.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='25 April 2010 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='1272250637' post='2275380']
I refer you to my previous statement where I disproved what you just said, only I used facts, rather than outright lies. You may find it [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84700&view=findpost&p=2275017"]here.[/url] The logs prove what I am saying is true, while you have absolutely no proof at all.
[/quote]
If I offer any more rope you may make the noose too long.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='26 April 2010 - 03:57 AM' timestamp='1272250637' post='2275380']
I refer you to my previous statement where I disproved what you just said, only I used facts, rather than outright lies. You may find it [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84700&view=findpost&p=2275017"]here.[/url] The logs prove what I am saying is true, while you have absolutely no proof at all.
[/quote]

How does that post prove that Compound is not WF government and that a small group of friends creating an alliance does not constitute recruiting?

"However, none of that pertains to this matter. (1) VE is not protecting RGN[b] (2) Compound is not WF government (3) three friends creating an alliance does not constitute recruiting[/b]; and (4) no one will accept "leaving without permission" as a valid cause to attack a nation unless it is during wartime, no matter what you have written in your anachronistic charter. Taking a few quotes and painting a large conspiracy theory are not "facts" or "truth" in any way, shape, or form. However, the preceding numbered list undeniably is."

You disproved nothing, no matter how many times you repeat the line, and "repeating the line" certainly is all your doing considering that I obviously don't need to provide you proof that Compound is not WF government, that's a self evident fact, and the other is a community standard. Responding with the contention "I am telling the truth and you don't have any!" makes absolutely no sense.

[Enrage]

[quote name='TheNecromancer' date='23 April 2010 - 11:31 AM' timestamp='1272040273' post='2272092']
To clarify everything, the alliance was proposed as a fall back for when the GGA came to an end with lack of activity, etc. No one was recruited, or asked, or forced into anything. It was an organized creation of an alliance between friends. And yes, I followed the correct path of procedure in leaving the GGA. I pm'd Jonathan Brookbanks with my reason for leaving and I left. As for tendo, I do not know if he pm'd JB. And now for the "you recruited from us", no. I did not nor did tendo recruit any GGA member. We shared a distaste for GGA leadership between those involved, who agreed that this was a last resort option. After GGA left UJA, it was decided that only me and tendo were going to leave. No one else wants or wanted to leave GGA.

To anyone who questions whether I supported the leave from UJA, yes but it was because 1) Ministers have no say in what JB does and 2) It wouldn't have mattered I just appeased JB.


That is all.




Sorry to say, but that is not true.
[/quote]


Read read this comment. He said he was not recruited..yet he was put on gga's ZI list anyway.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Enrage

[Jrenster]

I, personally, don't give a crap for neither side in this matter. I will say that given the evidence at hand, GGA seems to have the "right" in these matters. Someone inside GGA poached government members, an act of war in itself, and decided to form a splinter group outside of GGA. WF is protecting that splinter group, and VE has their leash on the issue. Pretty damn straightforward if you ask me.

[Gerald Meanĕ]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='26 April 2010 - 04:07 AM' timestamp='1272251251' post='2275401']
no one will accept "leaving without permission" as a valid cause to attack a nation unless it is during wartime,
[/quote]

I do provided it is expressly shown in the charter, and the members know about it before joining. If that's the case then I would say there is a valid case to be taken against the nations going against what they signed on for.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='26 April 2010 - 04:49 AM' timestamp='1272253727' post='2275506']
I, personally, don't give a crap for neither side in this matter. I will say that given the evidence at hand, GGA seems to have the "right" in these matters. Someone inside GGA poached government members, an act of war in itself, and decided to form a splinter group outside of GGA. WF is protecting that splinter group, and VE has their leash on the issue. Pretty damn straightforward if you ask me.
[/quote]

Just to make sure the factual situation is known, it was not someone poaching government members, it was three government members planning on creating their own alliance as friends. However, they botched the DoE and listed all three members as government in the OP before one of them had "received permission" to leave. That one person, whether it be out of fear of retaliation or otherwise, decided to remain in GGA. The other two are in the alliance listed in the OP here and now protected by WF. No other person aside from the two in question here and the one who remained were ever solicited about the alliance, making a grand total of 3, all of which originally were party to the idea of creating it.

For confirmation, this was posted by one of the people in question earlier in this thread:

[quote]To clarify everything, the alliance was proposed as a fall back for when the GGA came to an end with lack of activity, etc. No one was recruited, or asked, or forced into anything. It was an organized creation of an alliance between friends. And yes, I followed the correct path of procedure in leaving the GGA. I pm'd Jonathan Brookbanks with my reason for leaving and I left. As for tendo, I do not know if he pm'd JB. And now for the "you recruited from us", no. I did not nor did tendo recruit any GGA member. We shared a distaste for GGA leadership between those involved, who agreed that this was a last resort option. After GGA left UJA, it was decided that only me and tendo were going to leave. No one else wants or wanted to leave GGA.

To anyone who questions whether I supported the leave from UJA, yes but it was because 1) Ministers have no say in what JB does and 2) It wouldn't have mattered I just appeased JB.


That is all.
[/quote]

There has been a wide variety of situations that evidence the standard behind what does and does not constitute recruiting from an alliance. It is almost universally accepted that a few friends branching off onto their own is not a cause for action nor a wrong to the alliance from which they depart, and violence is only due when the party in question approaches a substantial amount of arms length members and induces them to leave. To illustrate this, Viridia had a situation almost identical to this, 3 members wanting to create an alliance, and we gave them a protectorate...quite a far cry from declaring war. Also, I recall your alliance making quite an extensive argument advocating the position that recruiting from an alliance is not a cause for war at all.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Il Impero Romano