a World Federation announcement

[Iotupa]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='26 April 2010 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1272254931' post='2275565']
Just to make sure the factual situation is known, it was not someone poaching government members, it was three government members planning on creating their own alliance as friends. However, they botched the DoE and listed all three members as government in the OP before one of them had "received permission" to leave. That one person, whether it be out of fear of retaliation or otherwise, decided to remain in GGA. The other two are in the alliance listed in the OP here and now protected by WF. No other person aside from the two in question here and the one who remained were ever solicited about the alliance, making a grand total of 3, all of which originally were party to the idea of creating it.

For confirmation, this was posted by one of the people in question earlier in this thread:



There has been a wide variety of situations that evidence the standard behind what does and does not constitute recruiting from an alliance. It is almost universally accepted that a few friends branching off onto their own is not a cause for action nor a wrong to the alliance from which they depart, and violence is only due when the party in question approaches a substantial amount of arms length members and induces them to leave. To illustrate this, Viridia had a situation almost identical to this, 3 members wanting to create an alliance, and we gave them a protectorate...quite a far cry from declaring war. Also, I recall your alliance making quite an extensive argument advocating the position that recruiting from an alliance is not a cause for war at all.
[/quote]

Yes, of course Necro has a reason to say his alliance did not recruit, because that is an act of war. Kenfolk has confirmed he was recruited, which I posted the logs of earlier, and Byron was talked to as well. Your lies are quite clear when I've posted the proof multiple times in this thread.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='26 April 2010 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1272254931' post='2275565']
Just to make sure the factual situation is known, it was not someone poaching government members, it was three government members planning on creating their own alliance as friends. However, they botched the DoE and listed all three members as government in the OP before one of them had "received permission" to leave. That one person, whether it be out of fear of retaliation or otherwise, decided to remain in GGA. The other two are in the alliance listed in the OP here and now protected by WF. No other person aside from the two in question here and the one who remained were ever solicited about the alliance, making a grand total of 3, all of which originally were party to the idea of creating it.

For confirmation, this was posted by one of the people in question earlier in this thread:



There has been a wide variety of situations that evidence the standard behind what does and does not constitute recruiting from an alliance. It is almost universally accepted that a few friends branching off onto their own is not a cause for action nor a wrong to the alliance from which they depart, and violence is only due when the party in question approaches a substantial amount of arms length members and induces them to leave. To illustrate this, Viridia had a situation almost identical to this, 3 members wanting to create an alliance, and we gave them a protectorate...quite a far cry from declaring war. Also, I recall your alliance making quite an extensive argument advocating the position that recruiting from an alliance is not a cause for war at all.
[/quote]

There seems to be a contradiction of evidence. JB has provided logs citing otherwise. Of course, if I were that member you quote, I would also create an ad hoc excuse. What's to say that he's not doing that now?

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='26 April 2010 - 05:32 AM' timestamp='1272256341' post='2275640']
Yes, of course Necro has a reason to say his alliance did not recruit, because that is an act of war. Kenfolk has confirmed he was recruited, which I posted the logs of earlier, and Byron was talked to as well. Your lies are quite clear when I've posted the proof multiple times in this thread.
[/quote]

You posted a snip of Kenfolk saying the word "yes" twice.

You continue to push the line, but once again it makes no sense. In the post you quoted, I recited a fact pattern presented in this very thread by the person whom you are accusing combined with their DoE a few days ago, and how that can amount to "lieing" I have not the faintest idea because those things certainly exist. At the very least, you should concede that he did not try to recruit multiple gov members as you stated, but rather just simply asked one of his fellow ministers if he wanted to join.

However, the facts, i.e. the early DoE listing Kenfolk's name in the government of RGN and the statement in this thread by Necro (and yes, those are facts, they exist and can be seen by anyone so please don't waste my time by saying they are a "lie". Im not referring to what Necro said as "fact" but rather that he made a statement and that statement exists. The validity of the words contained in Necro's statement is another matter entirely, but the presumption in this case is to it being true in light of the early DoE) point to Kenfolk being party to the creation of the alliance since the ideas inception. That being said, those facts can only lead to an inferential conclusion on the subject, and as I am neither Necro nor Kenfolk I cannot provide you with more, but to be sure the inferential conclusion that should reasonably be drawn from the available facts in this situation is in fact that Kenfolk was one of the founders of the alliance in idea if not physicality. Your post of Kenfolk saying the word "yes" twice does not contradict Necro's position on the matter at all, nor does it provide enough support to your premise to outweigh the opposing inferential conclusion already available from the facts at hand. If you have more, please provide it, and I will advocate that Necro do the same.


[quote name='Jrenster' date='26 April 2010 - 05:33 AM' timestamp='1272256378' post='2275642']
There seems to be a contradiction of evidence. JB has provided logs citing otherwise. Of course, if I were that member you quote, I would also create an ad hoc excuse. What's to say that he's not doing that now?
[/quote]

He posted a snip Kenfolk saying the word "yes" twice. See above for why that has no bearing on his conclusion.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Il Impero Romano

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='26 April 2010 - 01:05 AM' timestamp='1272258284' post='2275695']
You posted a snip of Kenfolk saying the word "yes" twice.

You continue to push the line, but once again it makes no sense. In the post you quoted, I recited a fact pattern presented in this very thread by the person whom you are accusing combined with their DoE a few days ago, and how that can amount to "lieing" I have not the faintest idea because those things certainly exist. At the very least, you should concede that he did not try to recruit multiple gov members as you stated, but rather just simply asked one of his fellow ministers if he wanted to join.

However, the facts, i.e. the early DoE listing Kenfolk's name in the government of RGN and the statement in this thread by Necro (and yes, those are facts, they exist and can be seen by anyone so please don't waste my time by saying they are a "lie". Im not referring to what Necro said as "fact" but rather that he made a statement and that statement exists. The validity of the words contained in Necro's statement is another matter entirely, but the presumption in this case is to it being true in light of the early DoE) point to Kenfolk being party to the creation of the alliance since the ideas inception. That being said, those facts can only lead to an inferential conclusion on the subject, and as I am neither Necro nor Kenfolk I cannot provide you with more, but to be sure the inferential conclusion that should reasonably be drawn from the available facts in this situation is in fact that Kenfolk was one of the founders of the alliance in idea if not physicality. Your post of Kenfolk saying the word "yes" twice does not contradict Necro's position on the matter at all, nor does it provide enough support to your premise to outweigh the opposing inferential conclusion already available from the facts at hand. If you have more, please provide it, and I will advocate that Necro do the same.
[/quote]

It's actually huge contradiction. You have person A who states that it was a recruiting. You have person B who says that it was not. A contradicts B. Pretty simple case.

You said that the leader of this splinter group "simply asked one of his fellow ministers to join." And you say that's not recruiting? That's the premises of recruiting. Anything else we talk about is semantics and inconsequential.

Also, I don't think this point has been addressed. It seems that the leader of the this splinter group "poached" three GGA government members, and yet only one joined. How is it that that if they were planning to make an alliance in the first place that the other government members change their minds? I'd like to hear what those government members have to say about this issue. Unless it has already been addressed.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='26 April 2010 - 06:47 AM' timestamp='1272260845' post='2275737']
It's actually huge contradiction. You have person A who states that it was a recruiting. You have person B who says that it was not. A contradicts B. Pretty simple case.
[/quote]

Essentially, yes that was my point, however when one considers Necro's statement in light with the early DoE, more deference is given to the statement. But, like I said before, there is not enough from either side of the issue to make a hard, conclusive call.

[quote]
You said that the leader of this splinter group "simply asked one of his fellow ministers to join." And you say that's not recruiting? That's the premises of recruiting. Anything else we talk about is semantics and inconsequential. [/quote]

Semantics are never inconsequential, nuance makes the world go round :x

In one of my posts earlier I defined what relevant situations have traditionally shown recruiting in this context to be, and the circumstances at hand do not fit it.

[quote]
Also, I don't think this point has been addressed. It seems that the leader of the this splinter group "poached" three GGA government members, and yet only one joined. How is it that that if they were planning to make an alliance in the first place that the other government members change their minds? I'd like to hear what those government members have to say about this issue. Unless it has already been addressed.
[/quote]

No there are only 3 people involved here. Two of them left and made the alliance, the other stayed behind and is the one who said the word "yes" twice which brookbank has been screaming about. That person from those logs, the 3rd person who stayed behind, was listed in RGN's DoE as a government member, and according to Necro, was one of the original planners of this alliance.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='26 April 2010 - 01:59 AM' timestamp='1272261527' post='2275752']
Semantics are never inconsequential, nuance makes the world go round :x

In one of my posts earlier I defined what relevant situations have traditionally shown recruiting in this context to be, and the circumstances at hand do not fit it.
[/quote]

I'm going to defer to LintWad's response. I think he covered that quite well.

As for the splinter group, I think LintWad's response also covers that position. The point being is that someone in this room is spinning this situation completely out of hand. However, the fact that wF is willing to protect these individuals so hastily definitely does not reflect well upon them. You people either need to stop antagonizing each other or shut up about Green Unity. They don't fit.

[Goldie]

From my understanding of the situation, the three planners were unhappy with GGA's direction, and especially them leaving UJA. The topic of protection for the new alliance was broached with wF, but I don't think it is consequential enough for me to want to dig through logs for that conversation. A couple of days later, DoE gets posted, GGA gets made, wF makes this post. In the DoE, Kenfolk said something like that this was posted prematurely and that he was no longer leaving and was staying as GGA's whateverheis over there, then edited the post right after. I don't think the protection of wF was hasty as it was discussed beforehand, I just think the posting of the DoE was hasty, and led to wF having to make an unprepared statement like this.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='26 April 2010 - 07:48 AM' timestamp='1272264510' post='2275779']
I'm going to defer to LintWad's response. I think he covered that quite well.

As for the splinter group, I think LintWad's response also covers that position. The point being is that someone in this room is spinning this situation completely out of hand. However, the fact that wF is willing to protect these individuals so hastily definitely does not reflect well upon them. You people either need to stop antagonizing each other or shut up about Green Unity. They don't fit.
[/quote]

I think we just have opposite viewpoints, and in my opinion the protection does reflect well and also fosters proper unity by preventing a new green alliance to be stamped out of existence for a silly reason. Reasonable minds can differ though, so to each his own.

As to who's spinning the situation out of hand, my common sense tells me that it just may be the party with the wild conspiracy theory and thinks the entire rest of the sphere has a master plan to bring down his micro alliance as opposed to the one protecting a few friends :x

[Haflinger]

JB, let it go. If VE's protecting another Andromeda, it'll come back to bite them in the $@!, just like the first one did.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='25 April 2010 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1272250137' post='2275352']While you single handedly stopped all progress within UJA since you took over, that certainly does not mean your destabilizing the whole green sphere.[/quote]

This entire thread is out of hand and retarded. Wisest words in here so far are from Argin. However, this part here made me stop dead and fall off my chair laughing. Are you suggesting that this incident is what's causing in-action within UJA? What about the last few months I spent trying hard to push Viridia to put more effort into it while being stopped and blocked in my actions and told it's a waste of time and to not bother cause we have too much within VE to worry about. That doesn't sound to me like GGA singlehandedly stopping anything.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Rayvon' date='26 April 2010 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1272283485' post='2275903']
This entire thread is out of hand and retarded. Wisest words in here so far are from Argin. However, this part here made me stop dead and fall off my chair laughing. Are you suggesting that this incident is what's causing in-action within UJA? What about the last few months I spent trying hard to push Viridia to put more effort into it while being stopped and blocked in my actions and told it's a waste of time and to not bother cause we have too much within VE to worry about. That doesn't sound to me like GGA singlehandedly stopping anything.
[/quote]

That was some months ago my friend, life had long since moved on and there were quite a few significant alterations to the document nearly complete when the things I'm referring to took place. However, that's a discussion for another time and your right about Argin's words are best here.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Il Impero Romano

[Rooman33]

I'm not real tuned-in to current global politics, but expansion within the Green Sphere sounds like good news to me... and WF usually has its head screwed on straight, so i imagine they're doing the right thing here

Plus Necro used to be one of ours, and he's a pretty smart cat

[Smooth]

[quote name='Rayvon' date='26 April 2010 - 07:05 AM' timestamp='1272283485' post='2275903']
This entire thread is out of hand and retarded. Wisest words in here so far are from Argin. However, this part here made me stop dead and fall off my chair laughing. Are you suggesting that this incident is what's causing in-action within UJA? What about the last few months I spent trying hard to push Viridia to put more effort into it while being stopped and blocked in my actions and told it's a waste of time and to not bother cause we have too much within VE to worry about. That doesn't sound to me like GGA singlehandedly stopping anything.
[/quote]
We did have our own problems to worry about when you were pushing for change in the treaty. That was some time ago. After you left, however, every party decided to try and push through some major changes to the treaty that had been tossed around for a while. Just because we weren't pushing for reform then doesn't mean we are "causing in-action within UJA."

Though, I agree, Argin's post is the best in this thread. This whole thing is stupid and some people need to learn to not air dirty-laundry on the OWF. I'm looking at you too, Ray, as it isn't gaining you anything but annoyance from some people who count you as a friend.

[GoddessOfLinn]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' date='26 April 2010 - 03:47 AM' timestamp='1272246414' post='2275221']
So, I'd say I talk to you every now and then. We know each other. Goldielax too. Does that mean if I start an alliance I can send you a recruitment message?
[/quote]

I too would like to know if VE & wF thinks it is ok to send recruitement letters to friends to make a new alliance and if it is ok to plan making a new alliance while staying a member (in this case a gov. member) of your alliance.

One might think that friends would follow you when you leave or at the everyleast contact you to ask you why you are leaving.
It is might have been a posibility to have posted a thread on the forum telling the rest of the members why you are leaving.
Talking to the rest of goverment telling them that you will leave the alliance, if this and that step is taken, would also have been a good idea.

As I see it a gov. member talked to other gov. members and agreed on making a new alliance if the rest of gov. did move in the direction they wanted. They did not tell the rest of gov. what they would do until afterwards.
GGA then declare war on the splinter group. Then wF gives them a protectorate, supported by VE.

Please tell me if i misunderstood anything and what!

[sethb]

[quote name='GoddessOfLinn' date='26 April 2010 - 03:47 PM' timestamp='1272293231' post='2275988']
GGA then declare war on the splinter group. Then wF gives them a protectorate, supported by VE.

Please tell me if i misunderstood anything and what!
[/quote]
You're wrong about that chain of events, wF gives them a protectorate, GGA declares war, wF announces protectorate.

Don't really have time to address the other stuff, I'll get to that at a later time.

[ComradeHitochi]

[quote name='GoddessOfLinn' date='26 April 2010 - 08:47 AM' timestamp='1272293231' post='2275988']
I too would like to know if VE & wF thinks it is ok to send recruitement letters to friends to make a new alliance and if it is ok to plan making a new alliance while staying a member (in this case a gov. member) of your alliance.

One might think that friends would follow you when you leave or at the everyleast contact you to ask you why you are leaving.
It is might have been a posibility to have posted a thread on the forum telling the rest of the members why you are leaving.
Talking to the rest of goverment telling them that you will leave the alliance, if this and that step is taken, would also have been a good idea.

As I see it a gov. member talked to other gov. members and agreed on making a new alliance if the rest of gov. did move in the direction they wanted. They did not tell the rest of gov. what they would do until afterwards.
GGA then declare war on the splinter group. Then wF gives them a protectorate, supported by VE.

Please tell me if i misunderstood anything and what!
[/quote]

Can't speak for either government, as I am just a member of wF. BUT, just as a fact I'd like to state that we have had wF spliter groups, (four to be exact), and every single one of them was offered a protectorate!

Even when it was obvious that they 'recruited' from within wF (its impossible to start an alliance without any forethought, and if they left together to start an alliance together, they must have 'recruited').

[quote]Talking to the rest of goverment telling them that you will leave the alliance, if this and that step is taken, would also have been a good idea.[/quote]
I believe that this is what happened. They were talking about how JB didn't consult them with his FA moves, and they stated that maybe they should leave. From there the alliance was 'formed.' Kenfolk was there from the beginning.

[quote]GGA then declare war on the splinter group. Then wF gives them a protectorate, supported by VE.

Please tell me if i misunderstood anything and what![/quote]

VE didn't support giving them the protectorate. They supported wF's moves because they are wFs (closest) ally! Do you see the subtle difference? There was no original plan like "lets give them a protectorate so we can attack GGA afterwards" .. to be honest we didn't even know that people who leave GGA get attacked prior to giving the protectorate (I believe, again not government).

Also, as mentioned above, wF gave the protectorate prior to JB declaring war. Also, GGA didn't declare war on them, because only JB declared war, multiple members of his government stated that THEY werent at war with RGN... while JB said he was. I'm not sure how that works (kinda new to the game).


Anyways, in conclusion, wF supports EVERYONES RIGHT TO BE IN WHATEVER ALLIANCE THEY WANT, whether its one they start or ours. If someone else says that a member of their alliance CANT LEAVE, we don't support that.

Also, we like pandas.

[strelock]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='26 April 2010 - 07:00 AM' timestamp='1272279613' post='2275850']
JB, let it go. If VE's protecting another Andromeda, it'll come back to bite them in the $@!, just like the first one did.
[/quote]
VE isnt protecting RGN, wF is.

Edited April 26, 2010 by strelock

[Haflinger]

[quote name='strelock' date='26 April 2010 - 12:13 PM' timestamp='1272298365' post='2276072']
VE isnt protecting RGN, wF is.
[/quote]
Yes, and you're completely independent alliances with nothing in common.

[GoddessOfLinn]

[quote name='ComradeHitochi' date='26 April 2010 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1272296034' post='2276021']
Can't speak for either government, as I am just a member of wF. BUT, just as a fact I'd like to state that we have had wF spliter groups, (four to be exact), and every single one of them was offered a protectorate! [/quote]

That is nice, but since GGA is not wF, they can handle it any way they like and RGN did make an hostile act against GGA. So did wF by offering RGN a protectorate when you knew GGA had 'isues' with RGN.


[quote]Even when it was obvious that they 'recruited' from within wF (its impossible to start an alliance without any forethought, and if they left together to start an alliance together, they must have 'recruited').[/quote]

If you start thinking about making your own alliance then it is time to step down from gov. and maybe even leave the alliance, but you should without question talk to you alliance leader even if you think he is the problem. If you stay and plan the whole thing and talk to other people about it then it becomes a hostile act (or treason).


[quote]I believe that this is what happened. They were talking about how JB didn't consult them with his FA moves, and they stated that maybe they should leave. From there the alliance was 'formed.' Kenfolk was there from the beginning. [/quote]

That was not what happend, They only talke among themself, they did not talk to JB or any of the other gov. member as far as I know.

[quote]VE didn't support giving them the protectorate. They supported wF's moves because they are wFs (closest) ally! Do you see the subtle difference? There was no original plan like "lets give them a protectorate so we can attack GGA afterwards" .. to be honest we didn't even know that people who leave GGA get attacked prior to giving the protectorate (I believe, again not government).[/quote]

Giving puplic support to wF's actions then they could have said so in private and not said anything in public. They choose to support wF giving RGN a protectorate public.

[quote]Also, as mentioned above, wF gave the protectorate prior to JB declaring war. Also, GGA didn't declare war on them, because only JB declared war, multiple members of his government stated that THEY werent at war with RGN... while JB said he was. I'm not sure how that works (kinda new to the game).[/quote]

Then you can ofcause provide logs, screenshots that support that, JB has shown us [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84700&view=findpost&p=2275017"]logs[/url] that show Compound saying wF is not protecting RGN.


[quote]Anyways, in conclusion, wF supports EVERYONES RIGHT TO BE IN WHATEVER ALLIANCE THEY WANT, whether its one they start or ours. If someone else says that a member of their alliance CANT LEAVE, we don't support that. [/quote]

Well, if people want to have the right leave their alliance they should not join one where you are require to as for permittion to leave and it really should not be a problem for GGA what you support!

[quote]
Also, we like pandas.
[/quote]

Hey, who dont like pandas

[FreddieMercury]

Nice, pushing around GGA who you know doesn't have sizable power to oppose you. They're obviously in the right and it's laughable when you all try to spin that. wF, you haven't changed since the UED war, color me surprised . And VE, backing them up all the same

[GoddessOfLinn]

[quote name='sethb' date='26 April 2010 - 04:52 PM' timestamp='1272293539' post='2275992']
You're wrong about that chain of events, wF gives them a protectorate, GGA declares war, wF announces protectorate.[/quote]

Can that be support that with logs, screenshot or something else? I only ask because JB has shown logs where Compound says wF does not protect RGN.

But still giving a protectorate to people that you know has 'isues' with their old alliance is kind of low class, atleast if you dont talk with their old alliance.

[Enrage]

[quote name='GoddessOfLinn' date='26 April 2010 - 12:46 PM' timestamp='1272303962' post='2276165']
Can that be support that with logs, screenshot or something else? I only ask because JB has shown logs where Compound says wF does not protect RGN.

But still giving a protectorate to people that you know has 'isues' with their old alliance is kind of low class, atleast if you dont talk with their old alliance.
[/quote]

Again, compound is not a gov member. The general membership was not informed of so yet, only the gov. JB ended conversations with me quickly as he stated war on our public channel #WF
[quote]
[21:48] <+Jonathan_Brookbank[GGA]> TheNecromancer and tendo are in a state of war with the Grand Global Alliance.
[21:48] <+TheNecromancer> JB, that !@#$@#$ goes against GGA charter

^ he was referring to emerald doctrine[/quote]


I will not post private logs between me and JB unless he grants permission of so & unless it is necessary.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Enrage

[bluebirdmatt]

[quote name='Paladin Kiwi' date='22 April 2010 - 03:58 AM' timestamp='1271905067' post='2270105']
This will surely stir the pot. I guess admin will have to change the team "Green" to "Glowing Green". Heh.
[/quote]


No pot stirring here¬¬

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='GoddessOfLinn' date='26 April 2010 - 10:47 AM' timestamp='1272293231' post='2275988']
I too would like to know if VE & wF thinks it is ok to send recruitement letters to friends to make a new alliance and if it is ok to plan making a new alliance while staying a member (in this case a gov. member) of your alliance.
[/quote]

Friends yes, random members no. When splinter alliances form, they can usually snag a Protectorate (or better) from VE, We like to see the green team grow here and are not adverse to giving them every chance to succeed.

While we of course take a dim view of people randomly messaging our memberbase, it would be just plain silly to get upset over a group of friends who mutually plan to try and start their own alliance. POT for example is a protectorate of ours that started from VE members. It's of course always sad to see active members move on, but we find it more practical to wish them luck rather than make a federal case out of it.

[ComradeHitochi]

[quote name='GoddessOfLinn' date='26 April 2010 - 11:09 AM' timestamp='1272301732' post='2276135']
That is nice, but since GGA is not wF, they can handle it any way they like and RGN did make an hostile act against GGA. So did wF by offering RGN a protectorate when you knew GGA had 'isues' with RGN.[/quote]
And wF is not GGA, so we can make our counter move, in this case offering a protectorate, any way we would like.

[quote]
If you start thinking about making your own alliance then it is time to step down from gov. and maybe even leave the alliance, but you should without question talk to you alliance leader even if you think he is the problem. If you stay and plan the whole thing and talk to other people about it then it becomes a hostile act (or treason). [/quote]
I believe tendo did step down, he was originally govt. of GGA.

[quote]That was not what happend, They only talke among themself, they did not talk to JB or any of the other gov. member as far as I know.[/quote]
In protectorate talks it was stated that they left because they were unhappy of the 'inner circle' of GGA that consists of dementual bilrow (idk who this is) and JB. Kenfolk has admitted to the fact that he seems out of the loop as well.


[quote]Giving puplic support to wF's actions then they could have said so in private and not said anything in public. They choose to support wF giving RGN a protectorate public.[/quote]

VE never made an official announcement stating that their entire alliance was behind it. They had individual members (albeit some are in govt) support it in this thread. As I am sure you do not speak for your whole alliance stating that you all condemn it (unless you announce it, with an alliance flag and all that good stuff, I take it to mean your alliance is not officially against it).

[quote]Then you can ofcause provide logs, screenshots that support that, JB has shown us [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84700&view=findpost&p=2275017"]logs[/url] that show Compound saying wF is not protecting RGN.[/quote]

<+Jonathan_Brookbank[GGA]> TheNecromancer and tendo are in a state of war with the Grand Global Alliance.
^ said to enrage, can't release the full logs since enrage just said he wouldn't. But of course you can see that he wouldn't of said that to enrage unless enrage had already said that he was protecting RGN. (Why else would JB talk to wF about it at all?)

Also:
<Dementual> Find a lovely timestamp on that quote
<Dementual> Next time you go posting it around
<Dementual> It was quite a while before the wF thread was posted

Proving that the order of events should be:
1) Tendo n necro DoE.
2) wF says they will protect them
3) JB says hes at a state of war with GGA
4) wF officially announces the protectorate
5) This.


[quote]Well, if people want to have the right leave their alliance they should not join one where you are require to as for permittion to leave and it really should not be a problem for GGA what you support!

Hey, who dont like pandas
[/quote]
I agree! At the same time though, you join an alliance when you are new to the game, reading a long charter isnt something one really wants to do. I know I didn't read ours till much later! If there was something I didn't like in there when I did read it, I probably would have left or tried to change it. But thats neither here nor there.

[quote name='FreddieMercury' date='26 April 2010 - 11:33 AM' timestamp='1272303205' post='2276151']
Nice, pushing around GGA who you know doesn't have sizable power to oppose you. They're obviously in the right and it's laughable when you all try to spin that. wF, you haven't changed since the UED war, color me surprised . And VE, backing them up all the same
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I believe GGA said it best when they said [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=30714]Proof = were bigger[/url]. Karmas a !@#$%* right? But hey you only agree with that saying sometimes.