The New Grämlins

[Sephiroth]

I don't think Gremlins are acting as irrationally as some might think, I think they still do very much have MK, Umbrella, \m/, and others hoping this drags out as long as it can, just not voicing public support because they know it wouldn't be a popular position to take. Gremlins are probably taking the hit for the team both in NS damage and PR , that's why they have so much confidence to continue.

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Calderone' date='18 April 2010 - 02:50 PM' timestamp='1271616635' post='2265132']
Well you would think they'd want their reps at some point, but who knows just how their minds really operate.
[/quote]
That's the part I don't get. If I were in charge of IRON, I'd be half-tempted to have everyone come out of peace mode so that CnG could watch their reps go down the drain. If nothing else, it would get them involved in a hurry.

(Probably a good thing I'm not running IRON.)

[Hyperbad]

I'm merely curious if it's personal, business or a mix of both for the Gramlin's leadership.

[Lennox]

[quote name='Hyperbad' date='18 April 2010 - 03:12 PM' timestamp='1271617909' post='2265160']
I'm merely curious if it's personal, business or a mix of both for the Gramlin's leadership.
[/quote]

Its called being sadistic

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Methrage' date='18 April 2010 - 01:51 PM' timestamp='1271616689' post='2265137']
I don't think Gremlins are acting as irrationally as some might think, I think they still do very much have MK, Umbrella, \m/, and others hoping this drags out as long as it can, just not voicing public support because they know it wouldn't be a popular position to take. Gremlins are probably taking the hit for the team both in NS damage and PR , that's why they have so much confidence to continue.
[/quote]
While Ramlins' actions are certainly supported by those alliances, they're losing a lot of support across the board...its still a bad move.

[Hyperbad]

[quote name='Lennox' date='18 April 2010 - 03:17 PM' timestamp='1271618251' post='2265162']
Its called being sadistic [/quote]
I resent the calling of anyone a sadist for their actions here. A true sadist would prefer options not available to leaders. Allow me to lower captured spais into an active volcano. Allow me to spread Solanum throughout my opponent's lands.

I suppose however if they truly feel themselves to be that way then it's personal.

[zzzptm]

[quote name='shilo' date='18 April 2010 - 01:02 PM' timestamp='1271613722' post='2265054']
Considering those new, and shocking revelations, I would consider this a valid CB of pretty much everyone against NV.

Basically, they, with intent, accomplished the same plans TPF gave up and was attacked for: destroy an entire alliance from within
And not only that, but they only planted on player there, not a small group.
Impressive, and at the same time truly outrageous
[/quote]

Beauty of it was, 1) I didn't plant him, he went there himself; and, 2) I had no idea it would turn out to be this entertaining.

[Crymson]

It seems someone recently leaked [url=http://pastebay.com/93958]this gem[/url] from the Gramlins onto Pastebin. Enclosed are what appear to be messages from the Gramlins government to their membership; the messages relate to the current situation.

Wow @ the second one. Just wow. Certainly worth a read.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Crymson

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Crymson' date='18 April 2010 - 03:29 PM' timestamp='1271622546' post='2265242']
It seems someone recently leaked [url=http://pastebay.com/93958]this gem[/url] from the Gramlins onto Pastebin. Enclosed are what appear to be messages to the Gramlins membership from the reigning government; they relate to the current situation.

Wow @ the second one. Just wow. Certainly worth a read.
[/quote]
Gold. This needs to be sent everywhere before some clown can delete this comedy goldmine.

[Carlton the Great]

[quote name='Crymson' date='18 April 2010 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1271622546' post='2265242']
It seems someone recently leaked [url=http://pastebay.com/93958]this gem[/url] from the Gramlins onto Pastebin. Enclosed are what appear to be messages from the Gramlins government to their membership; the messages relate to the current situation.

Wow @ the second one. Just wow. Certainly worth a read.
[/quote]
Wow. They have a spectacularly warped view of recent events.

[Arcturus Jefferson]

I haven't really had much contact with the current Gramlins.gov, but that seems too Orewellian to be legit. Maybe if it was supposed to be Pacifican...

[Wes Walz Pants]

[quote name='Crymson' date='18 April 2010 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1271622546' post='2265242']
It seems someone recently leaked [url=http://pastebay.com/93958]this gem[/url] from the Gramlins onto Pastebin. Enclosed are what appear to be messages from the Gramlins government to their membership; the messages relate to the current situation.

Wow @ the second one. Just wow. Certainly worth a read.
[/quote]
Good luck with that Gramlins. Anyone suggesting IRON and DAWN consider an unconditional surrender still is truly an idiot. I'd love to see more comments from those whom continue to protect Gramlins from attack while they perpetrate this fraud on Planet Bob.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Calderone' date='18 April 2010 - 03:49 PM' timestamp='1271623751' post='2265277']
Good luck with that Gramlins. Anyone suggesting IRON and DAWN consider an unconditional surrender still is truly an idiot. I'd love to see more comments from those whom continue to protect Gramlins from attack while they perpetrate this fraud on Planet Bob.
[/quote]
Well it appears many of the remaining Ramlins are so brainwashed that they believe it. Although, given the message exchanges I have seen, not all of them are.

[Hyperbad]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='18 April 2010 - 04:40 PM' timestamp='1271623214' post='2265264']
I haven't really had much contact with the current Gramlins.gov, but that seems too Orewellian to be legit. Maybe if it was supposed to be Pacifican...
[/quote]
Yeah, the whole thing sounds rather awkward and convenient. Unless the person who put it up there comes forward I'd be reluctant to trust anything on pastebay/bin.

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='Crymson' date='18 April 2010 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1271622546' post='2265242']
It seems someone recently leaked [url="http://pastebay.com/93958"]this gem[/url] from the Gramlins onto Pastebin. Enclosed are what appear to be messages from the Gramlins government to their membership; the messages relate to the current situation.

Wow @ the second one. Just wow. Certainly worth a read.
[/quote]

This is hilarious.

Instead of admitting their wrongs and failures, the Grämlins' government admits utter incompetence

IRON are terrorists and criminals? Because they supported NSO in a war? That makes them criminals? Your own government doesn't even talk to you about the peace terms? So you fight, and don't even know what for? Hilarious.

[ROMMELHSQ]

oh gRamlins....don't you know you shouldn't use pastebin?

[Jyrinx]

In case that link dies, I'm quoting it. I'd like to state that me quoting it in no way means I'm saying it's true; I cannot vouch for the veracity of what has been posted on that pastebin link at all:

[quote]
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2010/04/16 Grämlins Conclave speech to the alliance
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Victory Dawns, Fight On!

Grämlins, I’m before you tonight with a few words, if you’d be so kind as to hear me. We’re known for our meritocratic ideology and our quasi-elitism here at Grämlins and nowhere, in my opinion, does this manifest more so than in the way our government and citizenry interact.

Here at Grämlins we’re unique, we have a trust in our government that isn’t even present in the modern real world, and definitely isn’t in most of Cyberverse. Since the first election I voted in, over a year ago now, I’ve voted with this knowledge, that the officials will do what they know to be the best thing for the alliance’s own good, and they’ll tell me everything that they can in due time. Don’t take this to be an “everyone quit caring about your government so much” denunciation, because it’s just the opposite. Thank you all for being so actively involved and vocal in the proceedings over the past several weeks, it’s touched me how much energy and emotion we’ve all put forth into the future and the well-being of the Grämlins, it really has.

I want to make something very clear here, because the Grämlins deserve clarity. The war with IRON is not a never-ending debacle. We see now, and have long envisioned, a specific and succinct ending to the conflict- IRON will unconditionally surrender and Grämlins will be in a strong and safe position.

Now, I cannot go into detail about the overarching plans for the war, which would entirely undermine our unconditional surrender approach now. OpSec must be respected, especially in such a vital time, and OpSec means, literally, ensuring the safety of operations taking place. This is done simply and effectively by keeping specific, potentially-harmful aspects of plans within the area of the government that has a specific and pressing need to know the information. Rest assured that when there is no more need for tight security, there will be no more security. I’m not, and your government is not, hiding anything from you, the information is just being temporarily withheld while it is extremely sensitive. I know that you feel you deserve more answers, and you do, and you’ll get them, just as soon as the danger is passed.

Next, I’ve noticed a few people resigning, and I’ve heard that a couple others have been thinking about it. I’ve talked with who I could, and what I hear kind of disappoints me. Every loss hurts me personally, I hate seeing someone leave, I truly do, and I know our alliance does well, regardless of good-natured “who are you again”s.

The most commonly-sited reason was something along the lines of disagreement with perceived alliance direction, specifically, disagreement with the current foreign policy in regards to IRON. I’ve also seen a couple people pissed off because I won’t authorize any resignations while we’re at war.

My friends, I don’t do that to spite anybody, I do that for the good of the alliance. If you are leaving because you are protesting the government’s direction, then you most likely are protesting it because you believe it endangers or destroys the alliance as a whole. Know that when I say I won’t let people walk now, I’m saying so because leaving right now not only damages our alliance, but directly draws the war out longer.

IRON will surrender, but every time they see a Grämlin walk out, they publicize the hell out of it and blow it way out of proportion, using it as a huge internal propaganda device, propping up the precarious morale they have left just that much longer.

Staying at least until the end of the conflict ensures that that end comes sooner. Also, once the conflict is over, I hope you’ll take a look, talk with me, and decide anew if leaving is really what you want. After all, at that point, the war will be over, rebuilding will occur on a massive scale, and there will be new elections for a government that you can either keep or change.

At that point, when the war ends, most of the problems that most people cite as reasons for leaving will be addressed by the alliance as a whole. I am asking that you wait, and asking that when the time comes, you take a long look once more, for the Grämlins’ sake, that’s all.

Now, I’d like to make a final note on the IRON conflict. I’m sure many wonder why, if our intentions are good, don’t we spell them out for everyone? Or why didn’t we just take some tech and leave? Folks, these are damn good questions, but there’s a lot of answers for them.

Basically, we’re not gonna spell out everything we’ll do post-surrender for the world for the same reason you don’t show your poker opponent your hand before he makes a bet, it just wouldn’t make sense to concede the advantage. Of course, when we do have surrender and we do give out our terms of release to IRON, they will not in any way violate our Codex. In fact, we haven’t done so yet, and we won’t, because that document reflects who we are as people. Greater explanations to the world as to why we haven’t violated it and why our stance developed will be forthcoming, but it wouldn’t help us to do so now, IRON needs to fear us and know that we truly will dominate them regardless of what anyone thinks or says in order for them to unconditionally surrender to us, and our radio silence policy is going to do just that.

Also, you may have heard that months past have seen Charter revision with the intent to eventually finalize a new Charter that better reflects who we’ve become. This is certainly in the works, as it will need to reflect the paper-less stance that we have. As I’m sure you’ve already seen, signing a peace treaty would have been exactly the same as signing any treaty with an alliance, it would have been a direct violation of our primary stance in foreign affairs, and thus was not done.

All will be well Grämlins, your confidence and continuing loyalty and strength give me more and more joy each day. This war will end, it will end very favorably for us, and we just have to see it through to the finish now.

Our internal growth and rebuilding system is arguably the best on Planet Bob, this war’s end will see us skyrocketing loyal members with smaller nations high into the ranks and aid and reparations payments flowing to our already-strong members.

Take heart Grämlins, victory is in sight and we need only to hold on against a weakening foe for a little while longer. If we stand strong and wait, they will give into us, make no mistake. Keep rebuilding those warchests, make sure navies and air forces are strong, and be vigilant in checking nations and forums and IRC. The end is nigh, victory is nigh,

En Taro Adun!

Von Droz
-Praetor, The Grämlins
<Spartus[Gre]> "Hi everyone" - Spartus, Executor of the Gramlins





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16 April, 2010 - The Grämlins - Office of the Judicator

Approved for internal release - Situation report:
Ongoing operations in IRON/DAWN theatre

Intelligence operations:

The Easter Sunday Accords
We did not sign them, because we cannot due to our paperless foreign policy.

The demand for uncondtional surrender
We do not negotiate with terrorists and criminals. It is the policy of this alliance
that IRON, together with DAWN perpetrated a criminal act. Their co-conspirators are
beyond our ability to prosecute, unfortunately. Like any criminal, they should not be
afforded the opportunity to place condition on how they are arrested. We therefore
require their unconditional surrender. This should not be a difficult decision for
them to make, because our Codex prevents us from subsequently demanding harsh terms.
Their refusal so far to cooperate is therefore due to nothing more than spinelessness.

Terms
The precise terms are still classified. I can tell you that there are 3 of them and
they reflect the nature of IRON/DAWN's crimes. They are sufficient in scope to meet
justice, but are not designed to destroy or humiliate.

Current
Our intelligence efforts, as well as covert diplomatic pressure, lead us to believe
they will crack soon. They have already offered to lie and SAY they surrendered
unconditionally, if we tell them the terms of peace before hand. They may be ready to
lie, but we are not, so we refused their condition. A vocal majority on the OWF belies
the truth that our friends are still our friends. In addition, several alliances that
we formerly had little or no contact with have privately pledged their support. In fact,
two alliances I personally have never heard of contacted me to ask if we needed tech;
one of them even offered to hit DAWN for us. Unfortunately we must continue to pursue
our principles alone. Standing up for a principle is something this alliance rarely if
ever did in the past, and though people believed we used to be honorable and now are
not, the fact is - the reverse is true.

Mission support
We need volunteers to gather daily stats on IRON/DAWN. Any stats. ALL STATS! Keep an
eye on their allies too.

That is all.

Ramirus Maximus - Judicator
[/quote]

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote]We’re known for our meritocratic ideology and our quasi-elitism[/quote]

I mean, who says that about themselves? Come on.

[Vilien]

I can't even begin to address the sheer scope of the idiocy contained in those policy statements.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Baden-Württemberg' date='18 April 2010 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1271624193' post='2265286']
This is hilarious.

Instead of admitting their wrongs and failures, the Grämlins' government admits utter incompetence

IRON are terrorists and criminals? Because they supported NSO in a war? That makes them criminals? Your own government doesn't even talk to you about the peace terms? So you fight, and don't even know what for? Hilarious.
[/quote]

At the VERY least, the notion that IRONs war was a rogue or criminal act, is debatable. It is not outwardly false. Their war against CnG was NOT in any way, shape, or form, a defense of, or an assistance to, NSO. That entire notion is patently absurd. On planet Bob, the definition of criminal is always evolving. There is no widely prevailing definition. Support what they are doing, or not, they are fully entitled to view IRONs acts as criminal in relationship to accepted standards on Bob (much like the world rallied to paint Athens raid on Ni! as criminal due to the standards of the planet) for entry into wars. IRON faced no imminent threat, held no treaty obligating them to attack GRE's friends. Yet they did.

It is fine to not support their war. I too, would like to see them just let it end. It is not, however, wrong for them to view the act as criminal, and for them to determine what they themselves deem to be a just punishment. It is, in fact, blatant hypocrisy on MANY of IRONs allies to now claim that GRE has no place to dole out whatever punishment they see fit to IRON, because the aggrieved parties (CnG) have already agreed to a satisfactory end. It was not that long ago, that you all posted your declarations of war, based partly on tacitly "supporting NpO's war on \m/ in defense of community standards, stemming MOSTLY from the \m/, GOONs, and PC raids. Despite the fact that aggrieved party in THAT case(FOA, I believe it was?) had already been afforded acceptable compensation. I suppose its yet another double-standard played in the political arena, to further your cause.

[lebubu]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='18 April 2010 - 11:13 PM' timestamp='1271625186' post='2265308']
I mean, who says that about themselves? Come on.
[/quote]

MK I guess

[Andre27]

Let me get this straight just in case my eyes have played a gigantic trick on me, GRE demands an unconditional surrender because they view the involvement of IRON/DAWN as a criminal/terrorist act?

Wow, just wow.

On a side note, does anyone here see the irony that the GRE actions are viewed as a criminal/terrorist here?
I'd say that the fast majority of planet bob views IRON/DAWN as freedom fighters against the GRE scourge.

[Matt Miller]

[quote]We see now, and have long envisioned, a specific and succinct ending to the conflict- IRON will unconditionally surrender and Grämlins will be in a strong and safe position.[/quote]
We will?


[quote]I know that you feel you deserve more answers, and you do, and you'll get them, just as soon as the danger is passed.[/quote]
Yes your members do deserve more answers, unfortunately for them they'll never get them, not the truth anyway.


[quote]IRON will surrender, but every time they see a Grämlin walk out, they publicize the hell out of it and blow it way out of proportion, using it as a huge internal propaganda device, propping up the precarious morale they have left just that much longer.[/quote]
"Precarious morale?" What are you smoking?


[quote]Greater explanations to the world as to why we haven't violated it and why our stance developed will be forthcoming, but it wouldn't help us to do so now, [b]IRON needs to fear us and know that we truly will dominate them[/b] regardless of what anyone thinks or says in order for them to unconditionally surrender to us, and our radio silence policy is going to do just that.[/quote]
Dominate? Feel free to talk to our members and see how that's working out for you. Your radio silence policy is doing nothing more than preventing more floundering and unsuccessful attempts to justify this atrocity on the OWF.


[quote]Our internal growth and rebuilding system is arguably the best on Planet Bob, this war's end will see us skyrocketing loyal members with smaller nations high into the ranks and aid and [b]reparations payments[/b] flowing to our already-strong members.[/quote]
Reparations you say? I feel like something about aggressive wars, reps, and a Codex should go here.


[quote][b]We do not negotiate with terrorists and criminals.[/b] It is the policy of this alliance that IRON, together with DAWN perpetrated a criminal act. Their co-conspirators are beyond our ability to prosecute, unfortunately. Like any criminal, they should not be afforded the opportunity to place condition on how they are arrested. We therefore require their unconditional surrender. This should not be a difficult decision for them to make, because our Codex prevents us from subsequently demanding harsh terms. Their refusal so far to cooperate is therefore due to nothing more than [b]spinelessness[/b].[/quote]
Is Ramirus really saying that an alliance giving the middle finger to a ridiculous request is doing so out of spinelessness? I've heard some rather insane things in my time in this world, but that may take the cake. We're afraid to surrender? Wow.


[quote]They have already offered to lie and SAY they surrendered unconditionally, if we tell them the terms of peace before hand.[/quote]
Well, Ramirus, there is a bold-faced lie. IRON has done no such thing and we certainly will not.

I'm beginning to feel sorry for the general membership of the Gramlins based on the propaganda and lies told to them by their leadership. You are being lead directly off a cliff and it's too bad not many of you read the OWF or you would see this for yourselves.

[Hyperbad]

I must say I'm thoroughly enjoying watching people take it at face value.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Hyperbad' date='18 April 2010 - 03:32 PM' timestamp='1271626306' post='2265331']
I must say I'm thoroughly enjoying watching people take it at face value.
[/quote]

I've dealt with Ramirus more than enough to believe that he did write the above.