The New Grämlins

[Lusitan]

Mission accomplished Mathew PK, right now it seems Grämlins are the main theme for jokes - or even the joke itself - around Planet Bob. Good job.

[Arcades057]

[quote name='Enrique Barrentos' date='15 April 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1271384227' post='2262122']
Tis a sad day for a once proud and honorable alliance.

I have suffered through the first 52 pages of this thread and can't take anymore.

Unfortunately, I am in the process of relocation (job related) and haven't been on hardly at all in several weeks to witness this... this... Heck, I don't know what to call it.

[i]Travesty [/i]maybe?

As always, Bob Janova and Syz plainly state all that is needed to be said about this whole situation.

Good luck and good bye, Gre. You ain't what you used to be.
[/quote]

Much respect.

[scutterbug]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='16 April 2010 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1271374740' post='2261907']
You know as well as I do that what scutter is doing on the forum can hardly be considered dialogue. And you also know that communication has been pretty good between everybody else.
[/quote]

You know full well what you are doing so, even have the admission on our forums that you are enjoying feeding the fire. But hey continue to make Ramlins worse and worse its the easy thing to do. IN the meantime yeah dont give a rats backside about us here at MHA having our name dragged through the mud for the sake of your absolutly disgusting actions. I said it in the embassy and i shall it again.

The accords are dead, the gre we signed them with is no longer and we did not sign anything with Ramlins. Its pretty much as black and white as that, i just pray it gets cancelled damn soon im getting sick and tired of being associated with your scumball of an alliance.

[SynthFG]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='16 April 2010 - 10:39 AM' timestamp='1271410757' post='2262654']
You know full well what you are doing so, even have the admission on our forums that you are enjoying feeding the fire. But hey continue to make Ramlins worse and worse its the easy thing to do. IN the meantime yeah dont give a rats backside about us here at MHA having our name dragged through the mud for the sake of your absolutly disgusting actions. I said it in the embassy and i shall it again.

The accords are dead, the gre we signed them with is no longer and we did not sign anything with Ramlins. Its pretty much as black and white as that, i just pray it gets cancelled damn soon im getting sick and tired of being associated with your scumball of an alliance.
[/quote]
Steady on there chief,
remember this is being driven by a few at the top and there is little the average gre member can do about it,
at the rate my former comrades are loosing members things will have to come to a head sooner or later, they may still hold the advantage at the top level against IRON but that advantage has been seriously degraded over the past week or so, the alliance is now dead as a major player and needs to sort its stuff out soon else it will fall apart completly. There are still some good people there however fighting for the soul of the alliance

Now in the next couple of weeks either the exodus will continue until IRON have a fair crack at a fight at the top levels
or IRON will come out and fight at the 50k+ level either partialy or fully
or there will be a change of tack or a coup in Gre

and failing all of that in 2 weeks a certain conclave member has to stand for re-election, actualy 2 of them do

Edited April 16, 2010 by SynthFG

[Golan 1st]

[quote name='Style #386' date='16 April 2010 - 03:32 AM' timestamp='1271377911' post='2261973']I would not want to associate myself with the Gramlins.[/quote]But you and your alliance are associated with them by using legalistic arguments to stop alliances from doing anything to stop gRAMlins.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='15 April 2010 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='1271390233' post='2262215']
I'll miss you EB, I do with you'd actually spoken to us before making this decision though.
[/quote]
You might be lucky he didn't, the inanity of it all may have driven him rogue.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]remember this is being driven by a few at the top and there is little the average gre member can do about it, [/quote]
They could vote for someone else ...

Good luck finding a home as good as the Grämlins that's no longer around, EB. I'm sure you'll find plenty of alliances trying to persuade you that they're it!

[quote]You know as well as I do that what scutter is doing on the forum can hardly be considered dialogue.[/quote]
This is hilarious considering whose plan you are following.

As for 'my opinion doesn't matter', 'I don't know what my government is doing' and so on: you're an Archon, damn it, your opinion [i]does[/i] matter internally and the government should be keeping you informed as to what it's doing.

[HellAngel]

As original signatory of the Härmlins treaty i absolve MHA from all obligations towards Gremlins.

Heh, just kidding, Gremlins is dead anyway.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Golan 1st' date='16 April 2010 - 11:02 AM' timestamp='1271412131' post='2262666']
But you and your alliance are associated with them by using legalistic arguments to stop alliances from doing anything to stop gRAMlins.
[/quote]
Pointing the finger at ODN alone?

[Golan 1st]

[quote name='Cataduanes' date='16 April 2010 - 01:43 PM' timestamp='1271414574' post='2262687']
Pointing the finger at ODN alone? [/quote]No. The same is true for all alliances from your side in the last conflict.
Only Style #386 is a member of the ODN and I responded to his post.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Golan 1st' date='16 April 2010 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1271415074' post='2262692']
No. The same is true for all alliances from your side in the last conflict.
Only Style #386 is a member of the ODN and I responded to his post.
[/quote]
Did it not occur to you that Arsenal may have been stating a personal opinion? (I know shock horror right), regardless of the politics some of us have taken the time to voice our personal distaste for what is going on here.

Perhaps it is the case that you do not welcome our opinion here in which case i am sure Arsenal and myself will be happy to leave you all to it

[scytale]

Just a reminder, during exchanges like this many tend to take snippets of conversations out of context to make their point. We all need to take anything said here with a grain of salt.

[Golan 1st]

[quote name='Cataduanes' date='16 April 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1271415615' post='2262694']Did it not occur to you that Arsenal may have been stating a personal opinion? (I know shock horror right), regardless of the politics some of us have taken the time to voice our personal distaste for what is going on here.

Perhaps it is the case that you do not welcome our opinion here in which case i am sure Arsenal and myself will be happy to leave you all to it [/quote]I am sorry, Cata, but it looks weak to me to say one thing and do the opposite. Maybe it's just my twisted moral, but it does not seem very convincing to me when you say that you don't want to be associated with them while effectively backing their aggression.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Cataduanes' date='16 April 2010 - 06:00 AM' timestamp='1271415615' post='2262694']
Did it not occur to you that Arsenal may have been stating a personal opinion? (I know shock horror right), regardless of the politics some of us have taken the time to voice our personal distaste for what is going on here.

Perhaps it is the case that you do not welcome our opinion here in which case i am sure Arsenal and myself will be happy to leave you all to it
[/quote]

personal opinion or not, Golan is right. if it is his personal opinion that Gremlins are in the wrong, then hopefully he is doing all in his power in ODN to see that Gremlins are not enabled in any way. if he is just going to voice his opinion but not really do anything, that is also fine but utterly useless since his alliance is helping to enable the very action he dislikes.

it is not that his opinion is unwelcome, in fact, i am certain that IRON and DAWN value his opinion especially when it finally aligns with one of their own opinions. it is just that given his alliance and their (in)actions that are enabling Gremlins to continue a war with IRON/DAWN, then well as the saying goes "actions speak louder than words".

[Bob Janova]

Here's something interesting ... the original signatories:

[quote][b]For the Mostly Harmless Alliance[/b]
Count Rupert, Triumvir
John Rocker, Triumvir
Working_Class_Ruler, Triumvir

[b]For the Grämlins[/b]
Lord Sharpe, Praetor
Bob Janova, Judicator
Piff, Executor

[b]Honorary Signatories[/b]
(DAC)Syzygy, Former Grämlins Conclave
Johnson, Former MHA Triumvir
Denzin, Former MHA Triumvir
HellAngel, Former Grämlins Conclave
Shamshir, Former MHA Minister of Bad Poetry and Writer of the Accords[/quote]
Of those people, who can be considered the 'spirit of Härmlins' if any people can, only Shamshir has attempted to defend Grämlins (and I think he's realised thta things actually are as bad as people are claiming). Most have said nothing (in fact many have left this world altogether); three (myself, Hell and Syz) have said we don't really see the same Grämlins as the one which signed that treaty.

I agree that you shouldn't just leave family out in the cold when public opinion wants a piece of them, but sometimes you have to let your brother serve jail time if what he does is bad enough. In my opinion MHA should be prepared to stand aside and let other individuals or alliances apply military pressure to Grämlins until they stop being ridiculous.

[Drizuz]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='16 April 2010 - 12:57 AM' timestamp='1271390233' post='2262215']
I'll miss you EB, I do with you'd actually spoken to us before making this decision though.
[/quote]

I hope you guys plan to ZI EB like you guys did to Jarlaxle, it's basiclly the same situation, they didn't talk to government before they made a decision. Cause EBs a deserter now. Best of Luck

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Drizuz' date='16 April 2010 - 06:19 AM' timestamp='1271416744' post='2262705']
I hope you guys plan to ZI EB like you guys did to Jarlaxle, it's basiclly the same situation, they didn't talk to government before they made a decision. Cause EBs a deserter now. Best of Luck
[/quote]
i believe there are only 2 nations within his range. i honestly wonder if either one would want to hit EB?

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='Drizuz' date='16 April 2010 - 07:19 AM' timestamp='1271416744' post='2262705']
I hope you guys plan to ZI EB like you guys did to Jarlaxle, it's basiclly the same situation, they didn't talk to government before they made a decision. Cause EBs a deserter now. Best of Luck
[/quote]
Yeah right, there's nobody in Gre with the stones to do that. They prefer the role of jackal rather than a fair fight.

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='15 April 2010 - 11:57 PM' timestamp='1271390233' post='2262215']
I'll miss you EB, I do with you'd actually spoken to us before making this decision though.
[/quote]
But on the forum, not IRC. Right?

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='16 April 2010 - 12:18 PM' timestamp='1271416719' post='2262704']
I agree that you shouldn't just leave family out in the cold when public opinion wants a piece of them, but sometimes you have to let your brother serve jail time if what he does is bad enough.
[/quote]
This is exactly the kind of thinking that was applied to the NPO situation and look where that got MHA. Do you seriously expect them to take any of the opinions and suggestions from here seriously when we both know that six months down the line doing what the majority of people here want them to do with be slung back at them as another accusation of being a dishonourable and cowardly alliance?

[nutkase]

[quote name='ironchef' date='16 April 2010 - 04:51 AM' timestamp='1271364668' post='2261683']
Yes that is really what is being advocated by the masses.

If your little brother has become psychotic and is a danger to himself and others you don’t slap them on the wrist and say bad boy. Doing this make you an enabler and is no help to your little brother at all. What you do if you really care is you let people step in that can make a difference in this behavior and put an end to it. It’s called Tough Love and in this case it’s the only thing that is going to stop what Gramlins is doing to all of us.

I respect MHA and the position you have been put in by your ally is a tough one. There comes a time when you have to say “We love you but you are wrong, what you are doing is wrong, and we will not support you on your path of destruction” “you are on your own till you get your !@#$ together and stop using us to buffer your mistakes.” I bet if MHA did this Gramlins would end the war today. If not they dont deserve you as an ally.

Just an idea take it on leave it but if you truly care about your ally you will do more than just slap their little hand because, if that’s all you are going to do others are going to step in and give them the good old-fashioned spanking they really need.

Balls in your court.



edit: spelling
[/quote]

That is not tough love, but more like disowning him.

Its ok, I still love you Ironchef

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Golan 1st' date='16 April 2010 - 12:15 PM' timestamp='1271416484' post='2262699']
I am sorry, Cata, but it looks weak to me to say one thing and do the opposite. Maybe it's just my twisted moral, but it does not seem very convincing to me when you say that you don't want to be associated with them while effectively backing their aggression.
[/quote]
[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='16 April 2010 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1271416581' post='2262701']
personal opinion or not, Golan is right. if it is his personal opinion that Gremlins are in the wrong, then hopefully he is doing all in his power in ODN to see that Gremlins are not enabled in any way. if he is just going to voice his opinion but not really do anything, that is also fine but utterly useless since his alliance is helping to enable the very action he dislikes.

it is not that his opinion is unwelcome, in fact, i am certain that IRON and DAWN value his opinion especially when it finally aligns with one of their own opinions. it is just that given his alliance and their (in)actions that are enabling Gremlins to continue a war with IRON/DAWN, then well as the saying goes "actions speak louder than words".
[/quote]
Fair enough i do see your point Golan/Dochartaigh. I am not privy to the machinations of ODN's govt nor CnG's leadership so i could not possibly comment on what actions they are taking in regards to this mess, yet i too hope some actions is being undertaken at some level.

It seems by extension i too am guilty by virtue of my AA so I will exit from this thread forthwith.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Drizuz' date='16 April 2010 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1271416744' post='2262705']
I hope you guys plan to ZI EB like you guys did to Jarlaxle, it's basiclly the same situation, they didn't talk to government before they made a decision. Cause EBs a deserter now. Best of Luck
[/quote]
Of course they wouldn't plan to do that, Matthew would obviously rather appeal to some sense of loyalty to a long-dead ideal instead (RIP Gramlins). He's got 23K+ tech and 190K+NS - do you think they'd risk their precious nations by bringing Mssr Barrentes to their perverted interpretation of justice?

[Olliee]

I'm cool and will therefore read all 64 pages.

That's sarcasm, by the way. So is it now wrong to like Gre?

[Hiro Nakara]

You only need to read the first few pages to get the grasp of whats going on, everything after that is whinging and insulting and NO U! arguements, followed by I dare you to canel on them nonsense. Enjoy, you will get a good laugh.