The New Grämlins

[Baldr]

[quote name='The Reccesion' date='15 April 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1271360412' post='2261598']
Thus allowing you guys to win the war, if they play it out long enough. Unless Ram doesn't care about the lower and middle tier of nations in Gre and he keeps fighting. Those 3M packages will run out very quickly. Considering the amount of nations DAWN and IRON have.
[/quote]

That's how I see it. IRON/DAWN knock down the lowest levels of the Gramlins, take them down to ZI or near it. Then they go for the next Gramlin in line and beat him down. Repeat, over and over. It'll take awhile, but without someone else helping Gramlins, I think IRON/DAWN end up winning this. They get 3 nations ready who can attack and stagger a Gramlins nation, and after a week of war, that Gramlin is much smaller, and can be handed off to smaller nations in IRON/DAWN. Once he's down enough that they have a fair number of nations in his range, he's toast.

And considering the Gramlins are saying "Unconditional surrender is OK, we would accept that", then IRON/DAWN can do the same. Force them into whatever terms they choose. Dismantle all wonders, all military improvements, give us tech for 2 years? Well, the Gramlins are the one that made up the rules. They better hope IRON/DAWN is a bit more reasonable than the Gramlins are being.

[The Reccesion]

[quote name='Baldr' date='15 April 2010 - 03:49 PM' timestamp='1271360975' post='2261609']
That's how I see it. IRON/DAWN knock down the lowest levels of the Gramlins, take them down to ZI or near it. Then they go for the next Gramlin in line and beat him down. Repeat, over and over. It'll take awhile, but without someone else helping Gramlins, I think IRON/DAWN end up winning this. They get 3 nations ready who can attack and stagger a Gramlins nation, and after a week of war, that Gramlin is much smaller, and can be handed off to smaller nations in IRON/DAWN. Once he's down enough that they have a fair number of nations in his range, he's toast.

And considering the Gramlins are saying "Unconditional surrender is OK, we would accept that", then IRON/DAWN can do the same. Force them into whatever terms they choose. Dismantle all wonders, all military improvements, give us tech for 2 years? Well, the Gramlins are the one that made up the rules. They better hope IRON/DAWN is a bit more reasonable than the Gramlins are being.
[/quote]
Also to add on to that, nations will be growing war chests, and getting larger. More time to repair nations. In a matter of time, IRON and DAWN will be able to hit higher up nations, probably none of the 70K NS+ but that will have done enough damage for Gre to quit. This is a chance for the "other side" against CnG to take a victory home ending this war. Those fronts may have closed, but the spirit is still there from looking in this thread. They could try to hit the upper tier, but it would be foolish trying 1v1's or 2v1's. They could use them later, when they have other nations in their range that are in PM right now. Just the best strategy in my honest opinion.

Edited April 15, 2010 by The Reccesion

[Lord Fingolfin]

Heh, and this is why I'm glad I've retired from this place. I've got friends in both IRON and DAWN so I felt I had a certain responsibility to keep semi up to date with this thing, so I just read 20 pages of the same run around !@#$%^&*, and I have a few points I'd like to enunciate.

1. Can people stop the mindless demagoguery where people throw out these nonsensical ridiculous claims and ad hominem attacks at each other. It really does start to get annoying, and I find myself wanting to strangle a lot of people even though they're siding against Gramlins

2. Actually, that's a good segue for me. Gramlins. Its Gramlins, not Shamlins, not gRAMlins, not Ramlins. My god people, you've managed to wear the name thin by using it 10 times in each post. Sure, the first few times it was pithy, now its just annoying and makes you look like a tool.

3. Stop throwing MHA up on a damn cross. I can't say I even have any friends in MHA, but calling them out and !@#$%*ing at them and whining really doesn't help you at all. Really think about this for a second, you want MHA to cancel on their longest and closest friend Gramlins, with the potential that Gramlins gets rolled. Excellent, I agree, the Harmlins Accords have clearly been violated. Insulting and yelling at MHA only makes them angry and drives them further into the "other" side, and more likely to want to stick by Gramlins and spit in your face and tell you to go rot in hell. Seriously, are you guys retarded, your strategy of wittily insulting MHA so many times that they buckle under the pressure and cancel on Gramlins is about as well thought out as a little boy being really mean to the girl he likes in the hope that somehow it will make her like him. Think

4. Do something about it. Stop complaining, do something about it. Join IRON, join DAWN, pull a Methrage and get high and declare on Gramlins in the middle of the night, whatever. If this isn't concluded by the end of my back collect, thats what I'm doing, I could care less about my nation, and can't think of a more worthy cause to sacrifice it for. Yelling here on the forums is about as incredibly ineffective as you can get. If you actually hold strong beliefs against this, grab a gun and start shooting. Ramirus and Gramlins clearly could care less about what you all have to say, as evidenced by the delicate tap dancing around the issue we've seen Matthew entertain us all with. You don't negotiate with terrorists. You wipe them out, mercilessly. I quote former President George W. Bush, who stated

"Some seem to believe we should negotiate with terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along."

Same situation. Decrying Gramlins actions is about as useful and effective as doing jack !@#$. Someone take some initiative and start rounding up people to go blow Gramlins top tier out of the water, and then you can start acting all smug.


/me departs to do something useful with his time

Edited April 15, 2010 by Lord Fingolfin

[Heft]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' date='15 April 2010 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1271362530' post='2261634']
2. Actually, that's a good segue for me. Gramlins. Its Gramlins, not Shamlins, not gRAMlins, not Ramlins. My god people, you've managed to wear the name thin by using it 10 times in each post. Sure, the first few times it was pithy, now its just annoying and makes you look like a tool.[/quote]
This is true.

[quote]Same situation. Decrying Gramlins actions is about as useful and effective as doing jack !@#$. Someone take some initiative and start rounding up people to go blow Gramlins top tier out of the water, and then you can start acting all smug. [/quote]
Well I did send two IRON nations at war with Gramlins 3M each. Does that count?

[ironchef]

[quote name='nutkase' date='15 April 2010 - 01:18 AM' timestamp='1271319481' post='2261132']
Are you really advocating we should string up a ally?

If your little brother did something wrong, you sort it out, slap him on the wrist and go on your way. You don't throw him to the wolfs do you.

Also we have made a decision, just because you don't like it will not make us choose another option more in favour with your taste.
[/quote]

Yes that is really what is being advocated by the masses.

If your little brother has become psychotic and is a danger to himself and others you don’t slap them on the wrist and say bad boy. Doing this make you an enabler and is no help to your little brother at all. What you do if you really care is you let people step in that can make a difference in this behavior and put an end to it. It’s called Tough Love and in this case it’s the only thing that is going to stop what Gramlins is doing to all of us.

I respect MHA and the position you have been put in by your ally is a tough one. There comes a time when you have to say “We love you but you are wrong, what you are doing is wrong, and we will not support you on your path of destruction” “you are on your own till you get your !@#$ together and stop using us to buffer your mistakes.” I bet if MHA did this Gramlins would end the war today. If not they dont deserve you as an ally.

Just an idea take it on leave it but if you truly care about your ally you will do more than just slap their little hand because, if that’s all you are going to do others are going to step in and give them the good old-fashioned spanking they really need.

Balls in your court.



edit: spelling

Edited April 15, 2010 by ironchef

[Titus Pullo]

[quote name='Baden-Württemberg' date='15 April 2010 - 12:36 PM' timestamp='1271349374' post='2261436']
So you are accusing two MHA Members of lying? After all they are your closest allies...
Someone got blinded by Ram-propaganda. Take a break and drink a cup of honesty, that might get you back to reality.

And if Ramirus is in the right, then he can come in this thread and explain his actions. I wonder why he doesn't do it. I mean, Grämlins have a long and outstanding history of being very honest on the OWF, and it has always been very appreciated.
[/quote]

By closest do you mean 'only'?

[ironchef]

[quote name='Baden-Württemberg' date='15 April 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1271349374' post='2261436']
And if Ramirus is in the right, then he can come in this thread and explain his actions. I wonder why he doesn't do it. I mean, Grämlins have a long and outstanding history of being very honest on the OWF, and it has always been very appreciated.
[/quote]

That was the old Gramlins. How they have a leader whose cheese has slipped from his cracker and sits alone in his counting room babbling incoherently. I dont think we are going to get much out of him on the OWF.

[Thorgrum]

[quote name='ironchef' date='15 April 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1271368532' post='2261770']
That was the old Gramlins. [b]How they have a leader whose cheese has slipped from his cracker and sits alone in his counting room babbling incoherently.[/b] I dont think we are going to get much out of him on the OWF.
[/quote]

If you believe the bolded part then you sir have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Ramirus is consistant and far from incoherent, on the contrary I believed when I was at GRE as I do now he knows exactly what he is doing and those who have been at GRE (past and present) know exactly the nature of the beast. That is why its a near crime to single out him exclusively, this is a gramlins choice. They have a system in place, he is in a position of power not by coup but by thier choice.

[FearUnited]

[quote name='Carlton the Great' date='31 March 2010 - 02:13 PM' timestamp='1270062771' post='2242218']
Poor showing by Grämlins.
[/quote]
I totally agree.

[Crymson]

[quote name='ironchef' date='15 April 2010 - 03:55 PM' timestamp='1271368532' post='2261770']
That was the old Gramlins. How they have a leader whose cheese has slipped from his cracker and sits alone in his counting room babbling incoherently. I dont think we are going to get much out of him on the OWF.
[/quote]

In the meantime, I'll be content to watch other members of the Gramlins come onto the OWF to participate in the self-crucifixion of their alliance.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Crymson

[RustyNail]

Why don't those of you on the side that are holding allies of IRON/DAWN or even people who are willing to do something about it, let them free of terms. I mean, I think a large portion of Bob feels this is completely ridiculous if not a completley seperate conflict and unrelated to the CF War®. I know of a few alliances that would lend a helping hand just to put an end to this nonsense.

Let my people go...or do something about it yourselves. Either way, the onus is on you.

[shilo]

[quote name='Baldr' date='15 April 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1271360975' post='2261609']
And considering the Gramlins are saying "Unconditional surrender is OK, we would accept that", then IRON/DAWN can do the same. Force them into whatever terms they choose. Dismantle all wonders, all military improvements, give us tech for 2 years? Well, the Gramlins are the one that made up the rules. They better hope IRON/DAWN is a bit more reasonable than the Gramlins are being.
[/quote]
I think we are definitely more reasonable than gRAMlins.

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' date='15 April 2010 - 10:15 PM' timestamp='1271362530' post='2261634']


2. Actually, that's a good segue for me. Gramlins. Its Gramlins, not Shamlins, not gRAMlins, not Ramlins. My god people, you've managed to wear the name thin by using it 10 times in each post. Sure, the first few times it was pithy, now its just annoying and makes you look like a tool.

3. Stop throwing MHA up on a damn cross. I can't say I even have any friends in MHA, but calling them out and !@#$%*ing at them and whining really doesn't help you at all. Really think about this for a second, you want MHA to cancel on their longest and closest friend Gramlins, with the potential that Gramlins gets rolled. Excellent, I agree, the Harmlins Accords have clearly been violated. Insulting and yelling at MHA only makes them angry and drives them further into the "other" side, and more likely to want to stick by Gramlins and spit in your face and tell you to go rot in hell. Seriously, are you guys retarded, your strategy of wittily insulting MHA so many times that they buckle under the pressure and cancel on Gramlins is about as well thought out as a little boy being really mean to the girl he likes in the hope that somehow it will make her like him. Think

4. Do something about it. Stop complaining, do something about it. Join IRON, join DAWN, pull a Methrage and get high and declare on Gramlins in the middle of the night, whatever. If this isn't concluded by the end of my back collect, thats what I'm doing, I could care less about my nation, and can't think of a more worthy cause to sacrifice it for. Yelling here on the forums is about as incredibly ineffective as you can get. If you actually hold strong beliefs against this, grab a gun and start shooting. Ramirus and Gramlins clearly could care less about what you all have to say, as evidenced by the delicate tap dancing around the issue we've seen Matthew entertain us all with. You don't negotiate with terrorists. You wipe them out, mercilessly. I quote former President George W. Bush, who stated

[/quote]


2. It's about respect. I do not respect the gRAMlins, that's why I intentionally misspell their name, and will do so until they change their minds. Why? Because I cannot respect an opponent who considers it fun and interesting to put my alliance into perma-war and then hopes we at one point give in and become their willing slaves unable to fight what demands they present. They don't deserve any Umlauts coming from my German keyboard.

3. I really am very sympathetic with MHA in this regard. I've seen in the gRAMlins embassy on their board how ram treats members of MHA who disagree with him, and I do understand one doesn't just go ahead and cancel a treaty that isn't supposed to be canceled. The gRAMlins are making things very difficult for MHA, by dragging their name through the mud with them. Of course I do hope they end up cancelling, but I would never expect it to be done over night.

4. Indeed, this is why GDA and Octava's actions are laudable, they are doing more than talking. To a degree Athens as well, they are doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, so they still deserve a mention.

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Baden-Württemberg' date='15 April 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1271349374' post='2261436']
Someone got blinded by Ram-propaganda.
[/quote]
I think the correct term is propaRAMda.

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='shilo' date='15 April 2010 - 06:21 PM' timestamp='1271370085' post='2261801']
I think we are definitely more reasonable than gRAMlins.




2. It's about respect. I do not respect the gRAMlins, that's why I intentionally misspell their name, and will do so until they change their minds. Why? Because I cannot respect an opponent who considers it fun and interesting to put my alliance into perma-war and then hopes we at one point give in and become their willing slaves unable to fight what demands they present. They don't deserve any Umlauts coming from my German keyboard.

3. I really am very sympathetic with MHA in this regard. I've seen in the gRAMlins embassy on their board how ram treats members of MHA who disagree with him, and I do understand one doesn't just go ahead and cancel a treaty that isn't supposed to be canceled. The gRAMlins are making things very difficult for MHA, by dragging their name through the mud with them. Of course I do hope they end up cancelling, but I would never expect it to be done over night.

4. Indeed, this is why GDA and Octava's actions are laudable, they are doing more than talking. To a degree Athens as well, they are doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, so they still deserve a mention.
[/quote]


@ #2, fair enough, you're under the boot so you basically are justified to do anything you damn well please XD.

Right with you on 3 and 4. 9 days and a bit more cash to fuel those nukes and I might be making a stop by your door Shilo. Please tell me you guys still have beer stockpiles

[shilo]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' date='16 April 2010 - 12:49 AM' timestamp='1271371777' post='2261848']
@ #2, fair enough, you're under the boot so you basically are justified to do anything you damn well please XD.

Right with you on 3 and 4. 9 days and a bit more cash to fuel those nukes and I might be making a stop by your door Shilo. Please tell me you guys still have beer stockpiles
[/quote]
For you, I shall put a special brew into the cooler to ensure a perfect drinking temperature

[Lonely]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' date='15 April 2010 - 10:11 AM' timestamp='1271347870' post='2261404']
No. Nobody has noticed this.
[/quote]

Hey, I couldn't be bothered reading a sixty-page thread and all the various retarded answers which have been given to find out.

[quote name='hilowe' date='15 April 2010 - 01:27 PM' timestamp='1271359616' post='2261582']
Yes, and it's because Gre pretty well owns the top spot, outnumbering IRON and DAWN there.

Get outside of that area of NS, and IRON and DAWN greatly outnumber Gre.
[/quote]

Essentially, then, you're going to lose.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='masterbake' date='15 April 2010 - 09:28 AM' timestamp='1271348881' post='2261423']
Come to our forum and find out for yourself.
[/quote]
You know as well as I do that what scutter is doing on the forum can hardly be considered dialogue. And you also know that communication has been pretty good between everybody else.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Kowalski' date='14 April 2010 - 07:08 PM' timestamp='1271286474' post='2260559']
Haters gonna hate. The same people urging MHA to cancel on the Grämlins or not to support them will no doubt be saying bad things them for yet another dishonourable move if they did just that. And you could probably write their names down before even reading the thread.

EDIT: For jerdge
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I am sure you know all too well how much I dislike MHA (for being indecisive and weak), but if they canceled that idiotic treaty I'd actually commend them for finally growing a spine, at least temporarily, and doing what they felt had to be done. Look at it, MHA absolutely despises what Gremlins is doing. Doesn't want to fight for this nonsense. They know how absolutely ridiculous this entire situation is, and they have themselves to blame for it for signing that blasted treaty to begin with.

But you know what? They'll back Gremlins anyway. They are slaves to paper, and that is very sad. MHA is a sad, little man. A weak, little man. They whine and pout with their sad, pathetic voice about how lamentable their situation is, and how they really don't want to help. Gremlins calls them and tells them to do something they don't want to do. Something that goes against their beliefs, and they say "okay." How sorry is that? Absolutely no willpower of their own. And that, my friend, is why MHA is a joke.

You know, if they could simply find it in them to say "screw it," and canceled the blasted thing, that would be a major step up for them. That's what balls is. The ability to say "screw it" and break your word when you need to. Can't do it all the time or else your word means nothing, but sometimes you just got to do it. All this nonsense about "honor" and "friendship" and other idiotic nonsense buzzwords. You are all slaves to it and you don't even know what it means. Look at you all, you unimaginative, weak, pathetic individuals. You're the ones running this world. It's a tragedy. You're sheep, not lions. You have no business pretending that you can sit at a dining chair never mind a throne.

But yes, that is exactly the reason all of you are currently leading alliances. You moan about the injustices of the world, at how Gremlins is setting a precedent you don't like, but in the end you won't do anything. Because you're weak. That is why you're leading. Real leaders were not allowed to exist under NPO's hegemony. Look at what happened to Sponge and others like him. Independent minds willing to act. Gone. Forced out. Made possible by weaklings currently ruling Superfriends, MHA, Sparta, and all the other alliances that were allowed to live at Pacifica's feet. Well, step up already. MHA, cancel your treaty. Make a stand for once in your worthless existance as alliance. The rest of you, attack Gremlins already if you don't like what they're doing.

See, I may not like Grub too much. I can criticize him for his incompetence, but I can respect his balls. He didn't like \m/. He went to war. He did something. He was a mover, not a reactionary. There are a few like him today. Starfox, but \m/ is not a large alliance. He'll never be able to do anything. Doitzel and Schatt. Ha, those alliances are even weaker than \m/. Still others, such as myself, are rendered powerless because people are too cowardly to follow someone of such strength, vitality, and principles. Sponge and Ivan are in retirement, unfortunately.

Yes, the world is afraid of great men. And those who are still left, who survive, are sent to the fringes. All of the truly powerful alliances, strong ones such as Fark, RoK, VE, and MK are led by reactionaries. Too afraid to take their own initiative. To start a war. "We will only be defensive." Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. Pretenders, all of them, weaklings. I spit on them all. They pretend to have principles, values, yet they don't defend them. They don't fight for them. They don't do anything by complain. In fact, they will probably support the offender because once again they are slaves to treaties.

To Hell with it all. If MHA cancels that treaty I for one will be impressed, because it would be more than the rest of you are doing. Weak cowards. Hypocrites. If any of you are as tired of this as I, then come to me. Beg to be worthy to follow me. Give me power. I shall show you how a real man wields such strength. I shall show you how a true leader behaves.[/color]

[Aeternos Astramora]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='15 April 2010 - 02:16 AM' timestamp='1271315759' post='2261082']In my opinion, demilitarization should include some nukes, some navies and some PM exits.[/quote]
Which is unjust. You remove their ability to fight and then could easily demand ridiculous surrender terms which nobody can accept.

[quote name='RustyNail' date='15 April 2010 - 05:16 PM' timestamp='1271369774' post='2261796']
Why don't those of you on the side that are holding allies of IRON/DAWN or even people who are willing to do something about it, let them free of terms. I mean, I think a large portion of Bob feels this is completely ridiculous if not a completley seperate conflict and unrelated to the CF War®. I know of a few alliances that would lend a helping hand just to put an end to this nonsense.

Let my people go...or do something about it yourselves. Either way, the onus is on you.
[/quote]
I agree.

[Style #386]

I would not want to associate myself with the Gramlins.

[Enrique Barrentos]

Tis a sad day for a once proud and honorable alliance.

I have suffered through the first 52 pages of this thread and can't take anymore.

Unfortunately, I am in the process of relocation (job related) and haven't been on hardly at all in several weeks to witness this... this... Heck, I don't know what to call it.

[i]Travesty [/i]maybe?

As always, Bob Janova and Syz plainly state all that is needed to be said about this whole situation.

Good luck and good bye, Gre. You ain't what you used to be.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Enrique Barrentos' date='15 April 2010 - 09:17 PM' timestamp='1271384227' post='2262122']
Tis a sad day for a once proud and honorable alliance.

I have suffered through the first 52 pages of this thread and can't take anymore.

Unfortunately, I am in the process of relocation (job related) and haven't been on hardly at all in several weeks to witness this... this... Heck, I don't know what to call it.

[i]Travesty [/i]maybe?

As always, Bob Janova and Syz plainly state all that is needed to be said about this whole situation.

Good luck and good bye, Gre. You ain't what you used to be.
[/quote]

EB not in Gremlins... sorry that your alliance has turned into what it has EB. glad to see you made the hard decision to leave them though.

[The Warrior]

[quote name='Enrique Barrentos' date='16 April 2010 - 03:17 AM' timestamp='1271384227' post='2262122']
Tis a sad day for a once proud and honorable alliance.

I have suffered through the first 52 pages of this thread and can't take anymore.

Unfortunately, I am in the process of relocation (job related) and haven't been on hardly at all in several weeks to witness this... this... Heck, I don't know what to call it.

[i]Travesty [/i]maybe?

As always, Bob Janova and Syz plainly state all that is needed to be said about this whole situation.

Good luck and good bye, Gre. You ain't what you used to be.
[/quote]

EB,

I salute you sir. I'm sorry that your home has changed from what it once was. I wish you the best of luck in relocating on Planet Bob.

[Zangmonkey]

I'll miss you EB, I do with you'd actually spoken to us before making this decision though.

[The Warrior]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='16 April 2010 - 04:57 AM' timestamp='1271390233' post='2262215']
I'll miss you EB, I do with you'd actually spoken to us before making this decision though.
[/quote]

Perhaps your government should have spoken with EB before making the decision that led to this.

Edited April 16, 2010 by The Warrior