FOK Declaration of War

[Lord Razzia]

O______O WTF!!??

holy !@#$!!

Hey Locke, we got out of it, so that should lower the count by a little.

[jstep]

[quote name='erikz' date='23 February 2010 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1266960853' post='2199644']
This is one of the saddest days, maybe even the saddest during the 2,5 years I've been playing CN. This decision was very hard on us TOP, I hope you can understand our position in this cl#%!^%$#&ck of a war.

I would also want to ask everyone to keep it civil in here. There is no ill will from FOK towards TOP. We just did what we had to do.
[/quote]

You didn't have to do this

[Bob]

[quote name='MNNorthStars' date='23 February 2010 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1266960660' post='2199631']
Yeah really I mean honoring treaties? Where do they get off!
[/quote]
Yeah..

Please insult MK instead of FOK. I don't know how, but I'm sure you can find something. FOK is honoring their treaty with their ally, after you launched attacks on them that clearly went against any friendship that you had with FOK. I can find it reasonable that TOP is upset that FOK attacked them, but realize that you put yourself into this position the second you attacked their treaty partner. You knew this could happen, yet you went ahead with it anyways. Don't let your emotions get the better of you, and let posts such as LM's regarding the situation help you understand what is going on here.

In terms of FOK not having to do this, read the treaty. Its pretty clear as to what their responsibilities are in a situation like this. You put yourselves in this situation with your attacks. FOK didn't do anything but honor their treaty to the letter. I can respect that this upsets you, but understand that they are not happy about it either for the most part, as is evidenced by the majority of their posts.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris

[Saber]

[quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' date='23 February 2010 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1266959013' post='2199556']
Attention everyone: If TOP really did aid alliances at war with FOK then you effectively already declared war on them so talk of this horrible betrayal is both hypocritical and misguided. You also should have considered FOK before declaring on MK if you really cared about that friendship. Seriously, get over yourselves.
[/quote]
Why hello there my almost bill locked target .


To all TOP members. Please don't attack FOK for this Declaration of War. I have checked with FOK high government and the truth of the matter is that MK requested a treaty activation from FOK, and given their interpretation they had to honour it. It does however bring up the question exactly how does MK treat their allies. Requesting treaty activations which put their own allies in a really bad spot (remember NpO activation MK requested and now this) does not seem like a smart way to keep their own relations strong. On other hand, it may be exactly engineered to destroy any remnants of old relations and further divide and conquer. In which case TOP members don't buy into it.

I really hope MK enjoys elaywering FOK to attack their friends and former allies, in a situation where you cannot have a bigger advantage.

[Monster]

Honorable move, FOK. Directly activating someone's treaties always increases the risk of retaliation, so this should not come as a shock to anyone.


[quote name='jstep' date='23 February 2010 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1266960925' post='2199654']
You didn't have to do this
[/quote]

Instead they should have not helped their allies. Hm.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Antoine Roquentin

[Pingu]

It is indeed sad that this ridiculous war pushes alliances into corners where they are compelled to make decisions like this. Good luck, FOK!

[The Reccesion]

Disappointment. 'Nuff said.

[renegade4box]

[quote name='jstep' date='23 February 2010 - 04:35 PM' timestamp='1266960925' post='2199654']
You didn't have to do this
[/quote]

Because obviously treaties mean nothing. Though I shouldn't expect much seeing that you were bound by a treaty to not aggressively attack us in the first place.

[HOUGHTAILING]

This is so going to back fire on FOK.

[ccabal86]

Of course I could say "Wow, this sure is a surprize", but then i'd be a lying

[Weirdgus]

Oh look, MK sends even more puppets at TOP

Nah, I'm kidding, enjoy your war and best of luck to all sides involved

[Bob]

[quote]

To all TOP members. Please don't attack FOK for this Declaration of War. I have checked with FOK high government and the truth of the matter is that MK requested a treaty activation from FOK, and given their interpretation they had to honour it. It does however bring up the question exactly how does MK treat their allies. Requesting treaty activations which put their own allies in a really bad spot (remember NpO activation MK requested and now this) does not seem like a smart way to keep their own relations strong. On other hand, it may be exactly engineered to destroy any remnants of old relations and further divide and conquer. In which case TOP members don't buy into it.

I really hope MK enjoys elaywering FOK to attack their friends and former allies, in a situation where you cannot have a bigger advantage.
[/quote]
I knew /someone/ was going to come in with this line.

I hope you enjoy attacking FOK's friends and current allies, and putting yourselves into this situation.

MK requested a treaty activation because we needed the support, which is quite clear if you look at your upper ranks in peace mode and the amount of offensive wars on us from those dropping out. I apologize to FOK for this, completely and truly. I apologize that you have been put into this situation, and I apologize that we needed to request your aid.

There is no plot here. We needed the help, we asked for it. Unless honoring a treaty is now elawyering..

[The Reccesion]

Can MK and everyone else stop saying they shouldn't have attacked direct allies. If anyone has the right to say that, it's FOK.

[Bob]

[quote name='The Reccesion' date='23 February 2010 - 04:42 PM' timestamp='1266961348' post='2199675']
Can MK and everyone else stop saying they shouldn't have attacked direct allies. If anyone has the right to say that, it's FOK.
[/quote]
..we are the direct ally of FOK who TOP attacked, and we are now defending our allies (who have just defended us militarially) against the verbal assault from their upset exallies. Sorry for that.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris

[Saber]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='23 February 2010 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1266960947' post='2199655']
Yeah..

Please insult MK instead of FOK. I don't know how, but I'm sure you can find something. FOK is honoring their treaty with their ally, after you launched attacks on them that clearly went against any friendship that you had with FOK. I can find it reasonable that TOP is upset that FOK attacked them, but realize that you put yourself into this position the second you attacked their treaty partner. You knew this could happen, yet you went ahead with it anyways. Don't let your emotions get the better of you, and let posts such as LM's regarding the situation help you understand what is going on here.

In terms of FOK not having to do this, read the treaty. Its pretty clear as to what their responsibilities are in a situation like this. You put yourselves in this situation with your attacks. FOK didn't do anything but honor their treaty to the letter. I can respect that this upsets you, but understand that they are not happy about it either for the most part, as is evidenced by the majority of their posts.
[/quote]
I pointed out that you intentionally put them in a bad position by requesting and activation when it is not really needed. Like you did to NpO as well (and possible some others too, I didn't pay attention really).

As a counter example, TOP did not ask to activate treaties that would put our allies in bad positions. One example are our MHA, Umbrella and AO treaties. All three alliances are fighting on the other side, and even while we were bandwagonned aggressively without a CB by some alliance (from top of my head TJO) we did not even consider to activate the treaty. Knowing it would be highly disrespectful and clear elaywering them into a bad spot.

[Volgan]

I think FOK needs a good pat on the back for what was obviously a vary hard decision to take.

On the other hand it seemed pretty easy for TOP and its gang of Sycophant alliance's to make a decision to launch a pre-emptive war.

Who has the high moral ground here - IT SURE AINT YOU TOP.

[DougZ37]

[quote name='AirMe' date='23 February 2010 - 08:23 PM' timestamp='1266956632' post='2199457']
I love watching your blitzes though [b]the lack of slots prevent a real nice looking blitz [/b]
[/quote]

That this is in fact the case doesn't really help build the position that FOK was really needed in this war at all. If there are hardly any slots available how can you justifiably argue that FOK [b]needed[/b] to come in against us in order to fulfill your needs to defend MK? This reminds me a lot of Syzgyz's end of the world thread. This is about anything but defending an allie, theres nothing 'defensive' about this.

[ty345]

Good luck FOK. We'll be here if you need us.

[Divi Filius]

I can understand TOP members being both upset and disappointed by this. FOK members themselves have felt both emotions when faced with this decision.

But saying FOK is betraying you guys or being dishonorable is totally unfair. We never wanted this war nor do we enjoy declaring on TOP, but in the end we had to do what we were obligated to do and that was defending an MDP partner that was attacked.

Anyone who knows FOK knows we would not have done this if it wasn't necessary.

(And yes, you TOP members have every right to be proud of the fact that it takes this many alliances to take you down )

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='jstep' date='23 February 2010 - 09:35 PM' timestamp='1266960925' post='2199654']
You didn't have to do this
[/quote]

You removed any incentive or self imposed impediment for them [i]not [/i]to do it, "blaming" them is just simply wrong.

[Simon De Montfort]

[quote name='erikz' date='23 February 2010 - 03:34 PM' timestamp='1266960853' post='2199644']
This is one of the saddest days, maybe even the saddest during the 2,5 years I've been playing CN. This decision was very hard on us TOP, I hope you can understand our position in this cl#%!^%$#&ck of a war.
[/quote]
I'm sure joing 20 alliances on one was a hard decision.

[quote]I would also want to ask everyone to keep it civil in here. There is no ill will from FOK towards TOP. We just did what we had to do.
[/quote]

We should have let GATO roll you guys in the Unjust War.

[Saber]

[quote name='Pingu' date='23 February 2010 - 10:38 PM' timestamp='1266961104' post='2199662']
It is indeed sad that this ridiculous war pushes alliances into corners where they are compelled to make decisions like this. Good luck, FOK!
[/quote]
If only someone was trying to end it.

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='23 February 2010 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1266961320' post='2199674']
I knew /someone/ was going to come in with this line.

I hope you enjoy attacking FOK's friends and current allies, and putting yourselves into this situation.

MK requested a treaty activation because we needed the support, which is quite clear if you look at your upper ranks in peace mode and the amount of offensive wars on us from those dropping out. I apologize to FOK for this, completely and truly. I apologize that you have been put into this situation, and I apologize that we needed to request your aid.

There is no plot here. We needed the help, we asked for it. Unless honoring a treaty is now elawyering..
[/quote]

Glad to see you prepared a response in advance. Smart thinking.

You can try to call it however you want, but the fact is that you did not need their support. The outcome of the war will not be changed by the fact FOK who was in a prolonged nuclear engagement for a few weeks now, entering and this has absolutely no other use than to exert power.

I hope you enjoy forcing people to go against what they believe is right. As a good ally MK could have asked FOK to focus on 5 other alliances and avoid TOP while other alliances focus on TOP. But no, it's better to force FOK to attack TOP directly and spit in 3 year relationship we had. Yes, we hit their ally, but we would never hit them or make them hit their own friends, no matter how much you shout it.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Saber

[The Reccesion]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='23 February 2010 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1266961423' post='2199677']
..we are the direct ally of FOK who TOP attacked, and we are now defending our allies (who have just defended us militarially) against the verbal assault from their upset exallies. Sorry for that.
[/quote]
I never said not to protect FOK from verbal assaults, seems more like your protecting MK's name with that excuse.

[scutterbug]

[quote name='Saber' date='23 February 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1266961494' post='2199679']
I pointed out that you intentionally put them in a bad position by requesting and activation when it is not really needed. Like you did to NpO as well (and possible some others too, I didn't pay attention really).

As a counter example, TOP did not ask to activate treaties that would put our allies in bad positions. One example are our MHA, Umbrella and AO treaties. All three alliances are fighting on the other side, and even while we were bandwagonned aggressively without a CB by some alliance (from top of my head TJO) we did not even consider to activate the treaty. Knowing it would be highly disrespectful and clear elaywering them into a bad spot.
[/quote]

Was avoiding posting in this thread but you had to bring MHA into it Saber.

Yes whilst you did not call upon the aid of MHA, Crymson himself who was TOP gov at the time asked us who could attack FARK without MHA countering. Seriously asking a treaty partner to betray another treaty partner?

Now all the TOP bawwing in here when you AID enemies of those you call friends/allies and go around aggresively attacking allies of those friends. Are you seriously surprised its gone full circle? Had TOP not declared in the first place none of this would have happened so before TOP comes crying look at yourselfs and the position YOU put your own "friends" in before blaming them for having to act.

o/ FOK give em hell, just wish i could be fighting with you guys in this one.

[The Warrior]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' date='23 February 2010 - 09:34 PM' timestamp='1266960873' post='2199647']
You see this is why i stated what I did a page or so ago, it's post like this that come across as WAAAAA WAAAAAAA!! BAWWWW BAWWWWWW!!!!
[/quote]

Nope. No complaining here.

[quote name='renegade4box' date='23 February 2010 - 09:34 PM' timestamp='1266960852' post='2199642']
Yea, FOK scum. [b]Who taught you that defended unjustly attacked allies is honorable?[/b]

I much prefer the TOP version: aggressive attacks without a treaty, even if the target is a close ally of many of your best friends.
[/quote]

Maybe look at this. Heard that one before.

And again, best of luck to you FOK.

Edited February 23, 2010 by The Warrior