Joint Statement

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='18 February 2010 - 03:32 AM' timestamp='1266481962' post='2189384']
I stated this earlier, and will confirm it. TORN forgave GR our reps and was great about it. If they had asked for reparations had they been victorious this war, I would have been surprised. They understand aggressive acts are aggressive.
[/quote]

We also, contrary to our original reaction to our DoW, do truly appreciate MK's assistance during the Karma war. We don't have to make this part of the overall conversation because you guys are obviously going to say we have a funny way of showing it. But suffice it to say we would have pushed to extend the same courtesy to our former friends in MK as they had given to us.

[Bob]

[quote name='Lord Curzon' date='18 February 2010 - 03:38 AM' timestamp='1266482286' post='2189396']
We also, contrary to our original reaction to our DoW, do truly appreciate MK's assistance during the Karma war. We don't have to make this part of the overall conversation because you guys are obviously going to say we have a funny way of showing it. But suffice it to say we would have pushed to extend the same courtesy to our former friends in MK as they had given to us.
[/quote]
Our friends in TORN will hopefully not be forgotten when the time comes for this war to end. You guys are great, regardless of the role you have played here. Coming from my own personal perspective, I know exactly why you guys rolled with them, and its because TORN exists to beat the $%&@ out of people, and you aren't doing it rite if you aren't.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris

[bigwoody]

-snip-

Edited February 18, 2010 by bigwoody

[WorkingClassRuler]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='18 February 2010 - 07:35 PM' timestamp='1266482116' post='2189392']
Ahh, the classic "escalating reps" tactic. So we're back to that era.
[/quote]

We let IRON off easy last time, look where it got us. We even offered it again to our combatants, and they have declined; clearly with the thought that they would be able to escape all responsibility for their actions with white peace later on. But unfortunately we're not a Forgiveness Vending Machine, ready to dispense a cessation of hostilities whenever they feel like it. We offered, they declined. They can deal with the consequences.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='18 February 2010 - 02:39 AM' timestamp='1266482374' post='2189397']
Our friends in TORN will hopefully not be forgotten when the time comes for this war to end. You guys are great, regardless of the role you have played here. Coming from my own personal perspective, I know exactly why you guys rolled with them, and its because TORN exists to beat the $%&@ out of people, and you aren't doing it rite if you aren't.
[/quote]
Well somebody gets it

I don't really expect any favors though. We're in it until all our allies are safe, and given the rhetoric coming from your side, we know exactly what that means for us.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='18 February 2010 - 08:35 AM' timestamp='1266482116' post='2189392']
Ahh, the classic "escalating reps" tactic. So we're back to that era.
[/quote]
There's a difference between Heg using it during offensive curbstomps and SC using it during an unwarranted defensive war.

[Stetson76]

[quote name='Working_Class_Ruler' date='18 February 2010 - 02:33 AM' timestamp='1266481981' post='2189386']
MHA's attackers were given the opportunity to white peace and only TUF and GGA took the offer. The rest of you declined, the offer is no longer available. So while I'm not Gov, I'm fairly certain that you've already blown your chance to get out of this scot-free.
[/quote]

Thank you for clearly delineating the sides. This post was made to ensure that everyone knows that the alliances on this "side" will not be resorting to tactics you've so elegantly modeled for us. The fact is that half of the alliances on the fringe of your side could peace out right now and you'd still hold a numeric and military advantage, so for those alliances who are being hard pressed to keep up with this war, we can only say that you'll not be leaving your comrades to burn either on the battle field (since they'll still have the advantage) or at the negotiating table (as the offer made really can't get any more lenient).

[Alterego]

[quote name='Working_Class_Ruler' date='18 February 2010 - 08:41 AM' timestamp='1266482492' post='2189400']
We let IRON off easy last time, look where it got us.
[/quote]
Good to know what you think being let off easy means. They didnt start the last war but were crushed and hit with massive reps. Going to kill them off once and for all?

[WorkingClassRuler]

[quote name='Stetson' date='18 February 2010 - 07:44 PM' timestamp='1266482670' post='2189405']
Thank you for clearly delineating the sides. This post was made to ensure that everyone knows that the alliances on this "side" will not be resorting to tactics you've so elegantly modeled for us. The fact is that half of the alliances on the fringe of your side could peace out right now and you'd still hold a numeric and military advantage, so for those alliances who are being hard pressed to keep up with this war, we can only say that you'll not be leaving your comrades to burn either on the battle field (since they'll still have the advantage) or at the negotiating table (as the offer made really can't get any more lenient).
[/quote]

None of which has anything to do with what I said, because I was clearly talking about MHA's offer to our combatants, and not speaking for this "side" at all. But I suppose when you feel like making an irrelevant point for the sake of saying something, it doesn't really matter who you've quoted - as long as they're wearing the right AA.

[Lord GVChamp]

[quote name='Hyperion321' date='18 February 2010 - 02:44 AM' timestamp='1266482663' post='2189404']
There's a difference between Heg using it during offensive curbstomps and SC using it during an unwarranted defensive war.
[/quote]
Jeez, how far does this go? Are you going to apply the "if you nuke us we'll ZI you" thing too? Sanctions? Espionage?

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Alterego' date='18 February 2010 - 08:46 AM' timestamp='1266482763' post='2189406']
Good to know what you think being let off easy means. They didnt start the last war but were crushed and hit with massive reps. Going to kill them off once and for all?
[/quote]
Nobody is disbanding anyone, or killing anyone with reps. How many friggin times do we have to tell you.

If somebody gets forced to disband as a surrender term, I'll give you all my tech. Quote me on that.

[Canik]

Speaking for FEAR. We have been given the opportunity for peace, as has Legion and others. This is not a request for peace but an offer to any on CnG's side who might want/need peace for whatever reason. I expected many to decline the offer, posturing, but I am surprised some have mistaken this for 'groveling'. If I wanted peace I could have it by now, but we won't abandon our allies, not while there's still plenty of fight left in us. In the meantime, we extend this offer.

[WorkingClassRuler]

[quote name='Alterego' date='18 February 2010 - 07:46 PM' timestamp='1266482763' post='2189406']
Good to know what you think being let off easy means. They didnt start the last war but were crushed and hit with massive reps. Going to kill them off once and for all?
[/quote]

Better go check how much reps MHA took. And while I'd hate to spoil the surprise, you'll find it was none.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' date='18 February 2010 - 08:48 AM' timestamp='1266482903' post='2189408']
Jeez, how far does this go? Are you going to apply the "if you nuke us we'll ZI you" thing too? Sanctions? Espionage?
[/quote]
1 - we like nukes. yay casualties.

2 - we haven't sanctioned anyone.

3 - we don't spy on anyone.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Hyperion321' date='18 February 2010 - 02:44 AM' timestamp='1266482663' post='2189404']
There's a difference between Heg using it during offensive curbstomps and SC using it during an unwarranted defensive war.
[/quote]
I call it cowardice no matter who is doing it, and no matter what their talking points are. You'll never see us pull crap like that.

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='Hyperion321' date='18 February 2010 - 03:44 AM' timestamp='1266482663' post='2189404']
There's a difference between Heg using it during offensive curbstomps and SC using it during an unwarranted defensive war.
[/quote]

So if TOP/TORN/IRON/DAWN had asked for peace the night of the attack, they should have been a) given terms and b) at very low, if not a white peace rate? I just want to establish that.

[Lord GVChamp]

[quote name='Hyperion321' date='18 February 2010 - 02:50 AM' timestamp='1266483002' post='2189412']
1 - we like nukes. yay casualties.

2 - we haven't sanctioned anyone.

3 - we don't spy on anyone.
[/quote]
Yeah, for now. We'll see how you shape up. So far you're just planning a war without end. That's not THAT bad.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='18 February 2010 - 08:50 AM' timestamp='1266483040' post='2189413']
I call it cowardice no matter who is doing it, and no matter what their talking points are. You'll never see us pull crap like that.
[/quote]
I wouldn't call getting reparations from people who attacked you without reason "crap", but that's cool. I respect TORN not taking reps any time any where. Shows that ya'll are ready to accept whatever happens and just roll with the punches. However, most alliances don't follow the same way of thinking as TORN, C&G and Sparta being but a few of them. If you break our friend's window for no reason what so ever, you'll have to buy a new one.

It's just two different ways of thinking. Simple as that.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Lord Curzon' date='18 February 2010 - 08:52 AM' timestamp='1266483135' post='2189415']
So if TOP/TORN/IRON/DAWN had asked for peace the night of the attack, they should have been a) given terms and b) at very low, if not a white peace rate? I just want to establish that.
[/quote]
I can't speak for C&G.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Working_Class_Ruler' date='18 February 2010 - 08:49 AM' timestamp='1266482950' post='2189411']
Better go check how much reps MHA took. And while I'd hate to spoil the surprise, you'll find it was none.
[/quote]
I assumed you meant we as in we who fought IRON and not just MHA. However your alliances name is on the surrender terms which means you are complicit in the heavy reps that were demanded and paid out.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Hyperion321' date='18 February 2010 - 02:54 AM' timestamp='1266483272' post='2189418']
I wouldn't call getting reparations from people who attacked you without reason "crap", but that's cool. I respect TORN not taking reps any time any where. Shows that ya'll are ready to accept whatever happens and just roll with the punches. However, most alliances don't follow the same way of thinking as TORN, C&G and Sparta being but a few of them. If you break our friend's window for no reason what so ever, you'll have to buy a new one.

It's just two different ways of thinking. Simple as that.
[/quote]
Or if you feel you are owed money for past transgressions (even those you played a part in), or because you feel like it, etc.

Given the standard you're setting for yourselves, you better really, really hope you're never on the losing side of a war, because you'll get fleeced hard. You'll get white peace from me, sure (I'm consistent), but you'll be paying out the $@! someday to others for the precedent you're setting. Likely even to people you're fighting alongside right as we speak.

Edited February 18, 2010 by bigwoody

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='18 February 2010 - 08:57 AM' timestamp='1266483437' post='2189421']
Or if you feel you are owed money for past transgressions (even those you played a part in), or because you feel like it, etc.
[/quote]
if you'll recall, Sparta waved reps during Karma. We don't make people pay for the past. We make them pay for the hear and now. TOP/IRON attacking C&G is the hear and now, and whenever the war ends, they are going to have to pay for it.

[quote]
Given the standard you're setting for yourselves, you better really, really hope you're never on the losing side of a war, because you'll get fleeced hard. You'll get white peace from me, sure (at least I am consistent here), but you'll be paying out the $@! someday to others for the precedent you're setting. Likely even to people you're fighting alongside right as we speak.[/quote]
And you wonder why C&G now sees TOP as a threat, and doesn't want to simply white peace them.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Hyperion321

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='Hyperion321' date='18 February 2010 - 03:54 AM' timestamp='1266483272' post='2189418']
I wouldn't call getting reparations from people who attacked you without reason "crap", but that's cool. I respect TORN not taking reps any time any where. Shows that ya'll are ready to accept whatever happens and just roll with the punches. However, most alliances don't follow the same way of thinking as TORN, C&G and Sparta being but a few of them. If you break our friend's window for no reason what so ever, you'll have to buy a new one.

It's just two different ways of thinking. Simple as that.
[/quote]

Well I think we would dispute the "for no reason what so ever", but regardless the issue is with "escalating reps", ie reps used as a force to a) intimidate people out of a war or b) force people into perpetual war. Those are the only reasons for escalating reps with time.

[supercoolyellow]

Just because you can copy and paste a list of everyone on the one side, doesn't mean you can make a joint plea for them moron.

As for MCXA we still want to share our toy soldiers, tanks, airplanes, and oh yeah nukes, with our friends at MHA and FOK. We're getting our Nuking nations in the lower tiers so it should be like slicing through cheese.

[Virillus]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='18 February 2010 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1266481962' post='2189384']
I stated this earlier, and will confirm it. TORN forgave GR our reps and was great about it. If they had asked for reparations had they been victorious this war, I would have been surprised. They understand aggressive acts are aggressive.
[/quote]

They just run out of spine when it is politically convenient. I didn't notice them shouting "we don't believe in reps! We r honour!" Back when their were crippling alliances left and right.

TORN was always the [i]nice[/i] bully that would beat you up but wouldn't take your lunch money.

Commendable, I suppose.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Virillus