A Note of Dissatisfaction

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Mixoux' date='17 February 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1266455648' post='2188470']
I heard some unknown alliance out there did something pretty unforgivable; clearly TOP supports this and are now hypocrites.
[/quote]
truly the act of a brutal hegemon...

[Aurion]

[quote name='Mixoux' date='17 February 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1266455648' post='2188470']
I heard some unknown alliance out there did something pretty unforgivable; clearly TOP supports this and are now hypocrites.
[/quote]

Only a truly despotic would-be hegemon would condone such an act! [img]http://demonsdesire.org/god3/Smileys/GOD-Smileys/eng101.gif[/img]

YOU'RE JUST AS BAD AS THEY ARE, TOP!

Edit: Hey, wait a seco-

Edited February 18, 2010 by Aurion

[Locke]

[quote name='der_ko' date='17 February 2010 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1266452973' post='2188376']
THIS JUST IN! Mushroom Kingdom is not Global Order of Darkness.
[/quote]
Lies and slander, good sir, LIES AND SLANDER! Clearly this many people equating the two cannot be wrong.

[Mathias]

You're sending them tech which is a valuable asset in war. Malicious or not, you are aiding an opponent of C&G.

We asked you nicely to stop, how dare us. If you want to be neutral, be neutral. You can scream "contractual agreement" at the top of your lungs, it still doesn't change the fact that it aids someone at war, not to mention the inability to distinguish between war aid and supposed tech deals (not that I'm questioning the nature of the current aid, just that it's entirely possible that it is indeed war aid simply masked as a tech deal).

[Stetson76]

[quote name='TheNeverender' date='17 February 2010 - 06:15 PM' timestamp='1266452113' post='2188356']
Not trying to single you out, but any ill-informed imbeciles who attempt to claim that MK supports GOD's decision are off their rockers. MK was already done receiving payments, but we told them we'd suspend it back in January when the WWE was proving to be an issue.
[/quote]

So you're trying to take credit for allowing the NPO to suspend payments even though you're already paid off? That was nice of you.

Wow, you guys are PR professionals!

[Aurion]

[quote name='Stetson' date='17 February 2010 - 08:53 PM' timestamp='1266458011' post='2188562']
So you're trying to take credit for allowing the NPO to suspend payments even though you're already paid off? That was nice of you.
[/quote]

Note the time referenced in the post.

Furthermore, note that today is not the same time as the time, or the same war referenced in the post.

Wow, you're a PR professional! Or maybe merely a professional at lacking basic reading comprehension.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Aurion

[Stetson76]

[quote name='Aurion' date='17 February 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1266458383' post='2188574']
Note the time referenced in the post.

Furthermore, note that today is not the same time as the time, or the same war referenced in the post.

Wow, you're a PR professional! Or maybe merely a professional at lacking basic reading comprehension.
[/quote]

What are you blathering about?

He clearly says, they were done receiving payments at the time that GOD made their decision, but that they were going to be good guys back when the Blue Balls War was heating up.

[Kryievla]

Whether it's cash, technology, or soldiers, your aid is helping them be more effective at pummeling their opponents. I'd consider it an act of war if you were aiding my opponents.

[Vilien]

Tech deals get suspended during war time. Deal with it.

[Whitney]

[quote name='IronMan17' date='17 February 2010 - 02:01 PM' timestamp='1266444113' post='2188059']
Since when does 50 tech do massive damage, if anything it might add a few infra damage at the max.
[/quote]

Times 6 slots. 300 tech every 10 days. This war has been going on for 20 days. That's potentially 600 tech.

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='17 February 2010 - 02:06 PM' timestamp='1266444374' post='2188077']
MK's aid screen:

http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=Mushroom%20Kingdom&anyallexact=exact

I'm seeing quite a lot of tech dealing going on in there.
[/quote]

The difference between tech dealing with people on your side and tech dealing with neutrals.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Whitney

[Schattenmann]

Franklin, you're old enough to know this.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='TBRaiders' date='17 February 2010 - 04:59 PM' timestamp='1266443963' post='2188051']
IIRC, IRON's CB against GPA was that ONE nation sent an aid deal to a GOON nation (who was in peace mode and not wearing the AA and who never came out of peace mode before the nation was deleted for inactivity). Just saying.
[/quote]
And that was a horrible CB that generated a lot of bad will towards NPO, as well as them dragging the war out with FAN. Just because NPO did it and it turned the world against them in the Karma War with that attitude doesn't mean MK can do it as well and not face similar problems. Good luck with this though, although I don't see how NPO can be expected to pay anyone reps during this war if you guys are going to throw a fit over this alliance fulfilling their tech deals.

It will be your own downfall by not learning from NPO's mistakes, but following them instead.

Edit: I said NPO, but considering how much that war has been cited in regards to IRON as well, I think it seems to of generated bad will towards them as well by many.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Methrage

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Stetson' date='18 February 2010 - 01:53 AM' timestamp='1266458011' post='2188562']
So you're trying to take credit for allowing the NPO to suspend payments even though you're already paid off? That was nice of you.

Wow, you guys are PR professionals!
[/quote]

Take credit for what?
What the hell are you talking about? What was nice of us is to give nations warning and let them off for doing tech deals during a time of war. We could've done the ol' TPF thing and just demand they pay us reps for their transaction.

[Lenex]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='17 February 2010 - 01:51 PM' timestamp='1266443513' post='2188028']
As soon as you move against a neutral party involved in a business transaction, you are an aggressor.

And before any one goes bananas, yes, [b]I am aware that many people consider tech dealing to be a form of aiding. I do not.[/b]

If some one wants to cut their opponents off from from an economic asset, and are willing to attack an uninvolved party to do it, so be it. But be honest about it.
[/quote]

That is a matter of opinion entirely, and I am quite sure Franklin and VoC can find plenty of other places to sell tech to.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Lenex

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Methrage' date='18 February 2010 - 03:04 AM' timestamp='1266462294' post='2188692']
And that was a horrible CB that generated a lot of bad will towards NPO, as well as them dragging the war out with FAN. Just because NPO did it and it turned the world against them in the Karma War with that attitude doesn't mean MK can do it as well and not face similar problems. Good luck with this though, although I don't see how NPO can be expected to pay anyone reps during this war if you guys are going to throw a fit over this alliance fulfilling their tech deals.

It will be your own downfall by not learning from NPO's mistakes, but following them instead.

Edit: I said NPO, but considering how much that war has been cited in regards to IRON as well, I think it seems to of generated bad will towards them as well by many.
[/quote]

Methrage, you know - as a seasoned player of this game - that during times of war, that it is commonplace for active combatants to request that aid deliveries cease. Its happened in every war and most sensible alliances get that. Just because this sorry little twit decided that he was special and the exception does not make this policy a bad one. He was not attacked, he was warned; I do not see anything wrong with that.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='tamerlane' date='17 February 2010 - 10:12 PM' timestamp='1266462727' post='2188702']
Take credit for what?
What the hell are you talking about? What was nice of us is to give nations warning and let them off for doing tech deals during a time of war. We could've done the ol' TPF thing and just demand they pay us reps for their transaction.
[/quote]
That's probably what you should do.
1. You're going to get the utterly retarded "new hegemony" thing until the old one comes back, regardless.
2. You were nice about it and look what happened.

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' date='17 February 2010 - 04:52 PM' timestamp='1266443568' post='2188032']
That sure would make TOP look hypocritical considering the hissy some of them threw over GOD refusing to let NPO postpone reps.
[/quote]

They had good reasoning.

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='17 February 2010 - 05:09 PM' timestamp='1266444585' post='2188087']
In terms of MK doing tech deals, yup. Stop us. War isn't fair. War has never been fair. The advantage to the larger side is that we can afford to conduct tech deals as we have the coverage to protect our sellers, while TOP does not.
[/quote]

LOL. The hypocritical rhetoric in this is absolutely stunning. If NPO said this x amount of years ago, MK would have been crying -- which, would be understandable. But now you got the power so the tides have changed, eh?

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Ejayrazz' date='18 February 2010 - 03:32 AM' timestamp='1266463945' post='2188737']
They had good reasoning.



LOL. The hypocritical rhetoric in this is absolutely stunning. If NPO said this x amount of years ago, MK would have been crying -- which, would be understandable. But now you got the power so the tides have changed, eh?
[/quote]

The arrogance of the MK member quoted in this post is stunning and is certainly not representative of the rest of us.

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='tamerlane' date='17 February 2010 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1266464216' post='2188743']
The arrogance of the MK member quoted in this post is stunning and is certainly not representative of the rest of us.
[/quote]
Aye, I understand. I was speaking more in terms of him as a member rather than MK as a collective whole.

[Ubermeir]

Business, contractual, it is as good as selling guns or weapons.

[TBRaiders]

[quote name='Methrage' date='17 February 2010 - 09:04 PM' timestamp='1266462294' post='2188692']
And that was a horrible CB that generated a lot of bad will towards NPO, as well as them dragging the war out with FAN. Just because NPO did it and it turned the world against them in the Karma War with that attitude doesn't mean MK can do it as well and not face similar problems. Good luck with this though, although I don't see how NPO can be expected to pay anyone reps during this war if you guys are going to throw a fit over this alliance fulfilling their tech deals.

It will be your own downfall by not learning from NPO's mistakes, but following them instead.

Edit: I said NPO, but considering how much that war has been cited in regards to IRON as well, I think it seems to of generated bad will towards them as well by many.
[/quote]

Look cherry picker, quote the rest of my post.

[quote name='TBRaiders' date='17 February 2010 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1266443963' post='2188051']
I keep begging my alliance to get three nations on the guy in citadel trading company who is sending cash, soldiers, and tech to TOP nations. That is blatant war aid. I personally don't care about regular tech deals being completed, but have always notified all my sellers that our deal will be on hold until after the war so they are not put into harms way. To each their own.
[/quote]

As you can see, I said I personally had no problem with tech deals being completed. I have never accepted tech from my sellers when I am at war or if they have gone to war. I can't remember a time where I didn't just tell them to move on and our deal was clear, keep the change. Not only is it because I use my slots to aid my allies, but it's because it's always been a valid CB to declare on nations and alliances who aid the enemy and I wouldn't want to put my sellers in that position. I added that last part about IRON because yet again we seem the crying from the other side when they are merely being hypocrites. If C&G was the new hegemony, we would have just started hammering their nations.

FWIW, I really am getting tired of all New Hegemony comments. How the side with TOP and IRON, two pillars of the old Hegemony, can constantly call our side the new Hegemony with a straight face is beyond me. Where are the viceroys MK has installed or supported our allies installing? What pre-emptive wars has MK declared with a CB of we don't like you or we want to bloody you up? When has MK rolled a neutral alliance? None of those questions really need to be answered. Can't you guys just start your own blogs and fill them up with your posturing and crying like the astronaut guy has done?



Also, hello Ejay.

[kulomascovia]

I have to ask, what business does an alliance have interfering in the economic dealings of a nation that is not at war with it? The reasoning of "aiding an enemy" simply does not work since there are many ways through which one nation can unwittingly aid an enemy. Aside from financial aid, a nation can trade with another nation at war, possibly granting access to nuclear weapons. Should that nation be attacked for aiding an enemy? What about donation deals? What exactly constitutes "aiding an enemy"?

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='tamerlane' date='17 February 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1266463079' post='2188712']
Methrage, you know - as a seasoned player of this game - that during times of war, that it is commonplace for active combatants to request that aid deliveries cease. Its happened in every war and most sensible alliances get that. Just because this sorry little twit decided that he was special and the exception does not make this policy a bad one. He was not attacked, he was warned; I do not see anything wrong with that.
[/quote]
My personal policy has always been to accept the tech if they send it, but I don't ask them to complete the tech deal if I'm at war and waive the tech if they ask. Although I'm pretty sure I've received tech packages to complete tech deals while still at war in every major war I've been involved in with no problems occurring for the senders. This includes while at war with IRON in the Karma War, NPO and VE in the noCB War, and FOK earlier in this war.

I realize not everyone in MK takes such an extreme view as some MK posters on the forum and I acknowledge he hasn't been attacked, but my point stands that using past behavior of NPO that got them a beating in Karma War to justify things isn't a good idea.

[F15pilotX]

[quote name='kulomascovia' date='17 February 2010 - 11:51 PM' timestamp='1266468715' post='2188880']
I have to ask, what business does an alliance have interfering in the economic dealings of a nation that is not at war with it? The reasoning of "aiding an enemy" simply does not work since there are many ways through which one nation can unwittingly aid an enemy. Aside from financial aid, a nation can trade with another nation at war, possibly granting access to nuclear weapons. Should that nation be attacked for aiding an enemy? What about donation deals? What exactly constitutes "aiding an enemy"?
[/quote]The parts of the tech deals being continued now are being continued while a war is going on - whether or not the actual intent is to help TOP, they undeniably do. As far as I know, aiding an enemy has long been a cb around these parts; correct me if I'm wrong though. Donations deals would fall into the same category.


C&G may or may not decide to play nice, but as far as decisions go, EIC should have known in advance this was a poor choice, and done what most people in their places do.

As for C&G doing tech deals, as others have said in the thread, in cases like that might makes right, simple as that. This isn't hypocrisy, this is just one side having the advantage of being better able to protect its interests due to the situation.


This isn't a matter of opinion, really, it's just simple logic.

Edited February 18, 2010 by F15pilotX

[Bob]

[quote name='Ejayrazz' date='17 February 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1266463945' post='2188737']
LOL. The hypocritical rhetoric in this is absolutely stunning. If NPO said this x amount of years ago, MK would have been crying -- which, would be understandable. But now you got the power so the tides have changed, eh?
[/quote]
Absolute !@#$%^&*, and completely ridiculous. Actually understand the situation before calling someone a hypocrite. If you really think MK would be complaining about NPO doing tech deals with VE while we were at war with both of them, then you good sir, know nothing about MK. We would probably have made several snide comments about how "LOL THATS NOT GOING TO HELP YOU EAT NUKES MOTHER$%&@ER".

Nothing about crying about that would be understandable, it would be just plain stupid.

You complain about me pointing out the obvious in a blunt way. Good for you. If MK can defend the people who we are doing tech deals with in order to help ourselves and put ourselves into a better position to fight TOP. War isn't fair, and MK has taken advantage of that when we went to war with NPO in NoCB. Nothing has changed.
[quote name='F15pilotX' date='18 February 2010 - 12:40 AM' timestamp='1266471635' post='2188990']

As for C&G doing tech deals, as others have said in the thread, in cases like that might makes right, simple as that. This isn't hypocrisy, this is just one side having the advantage of being better able to protect its interests due to the situation.
[/quote]
Exactly. Might makes right has a negative connotation, but it is applicable, and not a negative thing in a situation like this. Just sucks to be on the losing side.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris