The End. It's coming.

[Derwood1]

I just see another ego thread here.....whatever.

[Kortal]

I think its clear this war has become exactly as laid out in the OP

That doesn't make it wrong though. If MK (obv the rest of CnG isn't making any calls) wants to take advantage of TOP's idiocy and can hold up to their attacks, more power to them. Also worth noting is the fact that unless something has changed in the last day or two, TOP gov hasn't actually made any attempts at peace, even as little as making it known to MK that they desire it.

When they do put aside their pride and finally seek out peace, then we can perhaps debate on whether or not MK is in the right or not and if these sort of sacrifices are necessary, though I for one wouldn't hold it against them if another cycle of war passed after this hypothetical point before we see any indication that interest in peace is mutual. And then comes the inevitably controversial debate on reps, and won't that be fun.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Kortal

[SpiderJerusalem]

[quote name='(DAC)Syzygy' date='11 February 2010 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1265906730' post='2174915']
The point is simply that a defender is only a defender as long as there is an attacker willing to keep attacking.
[/quote]

So, in a real life context, if someone hits me and breaks my nose, kick me in the groin and bit their thumb at me, then walks away, they are not an attacker any longer?

What?

[Nizzle]

[quote name='Kortal' date='11 February 2010 - 10:51 AM' timestamp='1265910692' post='2175085']
I think its clear this war has become exactly as laid out in the OP

That doesn't make it wrong though. If MK (obv the rest of CnG isn't making any calls) wants to take advantage of TOP's idiocy and can hold up to their attacks, more power to them. Also worth noting is the fact that unless something has changed in the last day or two, TOP gov hasn't actually made any attempts at peace, even as little as making it known to MK that they desire it.

When they do put aside their pride and finally seek out peace, then we can perhaps debate on whether or not MK is in the right or not and if these sort of sacrifices are necessary, though I for one wouldn't hold it against them if another cycle of war passed after this hypothetical point before we see any indication that interest in peace is mutual. And then comes the inevitably controversial debate on reps, and won't that be fun.
[/quote]

I would dare say that none of this has been fun for anyone.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

Good luck Syz.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Nizzle]

[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' date='11 February 2010 - 10:55 AM' timestamp='1265910919' post='2175092']
So, in a real life context, if someone hits me and breaks my nose, kick me in the groin and bit their thumb at me, then walks away, they are not an attacker any longer?

What?
[/quote]

Legally, yes. Street justice, no.

I would think it's a rather simple concept, to be honest. While one may be compelled to go after the retreating attacker, be it for pride or whatever, it certainly doesn't validate it.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' date='11 February 2010 - 12:55 PM' timestamp='1265910919' post='2175092']
So, in a real life context, if someone hits me and breaks my nose, kick me in the groin and bit their thumb at me, then walks away, they are not an attacker any longer?

What?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]No, his point is more that if someone punches you in the nose and then you quickly get them on the floor and disabled, you do not continue to kick them until they're bloody. You let up and them and then make them answer for what they did.[/color]

[Earogema]

While I am not a fan of you calling yourself a "true" Gremlin, the fact that you disagree with the preemptive strike, combined with the fact that you are defending your friends, only reflects well on you.

However, I will say that unless TOP itself is willing to ask for terms, then there really isn't a reason to give them any. There has been a lot of chest beating from both sides. I don't think a person should walk around with that sort of arrogance and then go freely.

When this war has been over a month in length, I shall see if my opinion on that changes.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Earogema

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Nizzle' date='11 February 2010 - 12:55 PM' timestamp='1265910940' post='2175093']
I would dare say that none of this has been fun for anyone.
[/quote]
I have enjoyed aspects of it.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Earogema' date='11 February 2010 - 12:58 PM' timestamp='1265911100' post='2175102']
While I am not a fan of you calling yourself a "true" Gremlin, the fact that you disagree with the preemptive strike, combined with the fact that you are defending your friends, only reflects well on you.

However, I will say that unless TOP itself is willing to ask for terms, then there really isn't a reason to give them any. There has been a lot of chest beat from both sides. I don't think a person should walk around with that sort of arrogance and then go freely.

When this war has been over a month in length, I shall see if my opinion on that changes.
[/quote]
I walk around with that sort of arrogance and I rule the worst nation in the Cyberverse.

[Earogema]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='11 February 2010 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1265911221' post='2175105']
I walk around with that sort of arrogance and I rule the worst nation in the Cyberverse.
[/quote]
Well, not everybody can be as cool as you.

Also, I will say that I walk with a certain arrogance and my nation sucks too. Though not as bad as yours.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Earogema' date='11 February 2010 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1265911310' post='2175107']
Well, not everybody can be as cool as you.

Also, I will say that I walk with a certain arrogance and my nation sucks too. Though not as bad as yours.
[/quote]
I have 88 supporters. Probably the first time in history that the number of supporters in a leaders nation are actually fewer than his real supporters in his alliance.

[Kortal]

I was admiring your honesty until I realized you'd said nation, not alliance.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Kortal

[Ogaden]

C&G has taken more damage than TOP, so I don't really understand the TOP pity brigade. If TOP was given white peace right now it would be a victory.

For TOP.

Edited February 11, 2010 by James Dahl

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='James Dahl' date='11 February 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1265911760' post='2175120']
C&G has taken more damage than TOP, so I don't really understand the TOP pity brigade. If TOP was given white peace right now it would be a victory.

For TOP.
[/quote]
I have no idea.

But from all the discussions taking place the CnG side of things has twice as much NS has the TOP side of things and they are smacking them around. So conflicting messages I suppose. On one hand CnG is getting beat, but on the other they are winning. What?

[Ogaden]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='11 February 2010 - 10:12 AM' timestamp='1265911963' post='2175126']
I have no idea.

But from all the discussions taking place the CnG side of things has twice as much NS has the TOP side of things and they are smacking them around. So conflicting messages I suppose. On one hand CnG is getting beat, but on the other they are winning. What?
[/quote]

Well great, you guys can stop whining about how dreadful it is the war is continuing then.

[Nizzle]

[quote name='James Dahl' date='11 February 2010 - 11:09 AM' timestamp='1265911760' post='2175120']
C&G has taken more damage than TOP, so I don't really understand the TOP pity brigade. If TOP was given white peace right now it would be a victory.

For TOP.
[/quote]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure no one is advocating white peace here.

EDIT: Than again, I know how adept many are at ignoring or misreading the main idea of a post/posts in order to benefit from it

Edited February 11, 2010 by Nizzle

[Ogaden]

[quote name='Nizzle' date='11 February 2010 - 10:18 AM' timestamp='1265912313' post='2175142']
Yeah, I'm pretty sure no one is advocating white peace here.

EDIT: Than again, I know how adept many are at ignoring or misreading the main idea of a post/posts in order to benefit from it
[/quote]

You mean like you?
The OP is going to war over it.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='James Dahl' date='11 February 2010 - 01:14 PM' timestamp='1265912088' post='2175134']
Well great, you guys can stop whining about how dreadful it is the war is continuing then.
[/quote]
Weird. I do not believe I have said anything about this being dreadful at all.

[PhysicsJunky]

For the disproportionate amount of talk about how nobody cares about their nations, or loves war, or any permutation of the same machismo there is a heck of a lot of complaints when a war comes around from the losing side, which is not so say it wouldn't come from the other instead if the fortunes were reversed.

For months there were threads about how TOP are stat mongers, filled with TOP members saying they'd be happy at ZI for a good fight. Now a good fight comes along and there is suddenly a great scream for TOP's peace (though not necessarily by current TOP members). In the meantime many of TOP's allies that skipped the chest thumping before the war are silently trudging along fighting with no consideration of what's ahead and nobody is talking about how fair or unfair this is for them.

So perhaps we can all take a lesson from the strong silent types speaking with their nations out there. If you love war, and start a war, fight the darned war. Peace and surrender terms are for when the fighting is done. I know I'd be roaring mad if I'm off fighting for somebody and laying waste to my nation if they'd already given up and starting complaining about peace terms.

Then again what do I know.

Edited February 11, 2010 by PhysicsJunky

[Nizzle]

[quote name='James Dahl' date='11 February 2010 - 11:19 AM' timestamp='1265912377' post='2175146']
You mean like you?
The OP is going to war over it.
[/quote]

Your aptitude to misread posts continues to amaze me, is it a requirement to be allied to those you are attacking with?

The OP is attacking out of friendship.

[Kortal]

[quote name='James Dahl' date='11 February 2010 - 01:19 PM' timestamp='1265912377' post='2175146']
You mean like you?
The OP is going to war over it.
[/quote]
I don't think even syzygy is expecting/looking for white peace here

[Moridin]

[quote name='PhysicsJunky' date='11 February 2010 - 10:20 AM' timestamp='1265912452' post='2175151']
For the disproportionate amount of talk about how nobody cares about their nations, or loves war, or any permutation of the same machismo there is a heck of a lot of complaints when a war comes around from the losing side, which is not so say it wouldn't come from the other instead if the fortunes were reversed.

For months there were threads about how TOP are stat mongers, filled with TOP members saying they'd be happy at ZI for a good fight. Now a good fight comes along and everybody is screaming for peace for TOP. In the meantime many of TOP's allies the skipped the chest thumping before the war are silently trudging along fighting with no consideration of what's ahead and nobody is talking about how fair or unfair this is for them.

So perhaps we can all take a lesson from the strong silent types speaking with their nations out there. If you love war, and start a war, fight the darned war. Peace and surrender terms are for when the fighting is done. I know I'd be roaring mad if I'm off fighting for somebody and laying waste to my nation if they'd already given up and starting complaining about peace terms.

Then again what do I know.
[/quote]

In fairness to TOP, most if not all of the complaining about the lack of peace terms has been coming from people not actually in TOP.

[Nizzle]

[quote name='PhysicsJunky' date='11 February 2010 - 11:20 AM' timestamp='1265912452' post='2175151']
For the disproportionate amount of talk about how nobody cares about their nations, or loves war, or any permutation of the same machismo there is a heck of a lot of complaints when a war comes around from the losing side, which is not so say it wouldn't come from the other instead if the fortunes were reversed.

For months there were threads about how TOP are stat mongers, filled with TOP members saying they'd be happy at ZI for a good fight. Now a good fight comes along and everybody is screaming for peace for TOP. In the meantime many of TOP's allies the skipped that chest thumping before the war are silently trudging along fighting with no consideration of what's ahead and nobody is talking about how fair or unfair this is for them.

So perhaps we can all take a lesson from the strong silent types speaking with their nations out there. If you love war, and start a war, fight the darned war. Peace and surrender terms are for when the fighting is done. I know I'd be roaring mad if I'm off fighting for somebody and laying waste to my nation if they'd already given up and starting complaining about peace terms.

Then again what do I know.
[/quote]

I'm sort of confused by this post. I'm not sure anyone is crying about the war, but merely how it came about and what some think should have been done.

I'm fairly certain if people were really "crying" they would surrender.

[Ogaden]

[quote name='Kortal' date='11 February 2010 - 10:22 AM' timestamp='1265912537' post='2175156']
I don't think even syzygy is expecting/looking for white peace here
[/quote]

Then what is this line then:

[quote]And yes, MK, FARK, MHA: I would have done the same for you, anytime. I hold no grudge against you, nor my direct opponents in this war. I wish this war come to an end, and soon. But as long as one side does not want that, they will face me on the other side.[/quote]

TOP has stated they will only accept white peace, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together here.