Kortal Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Syzygy wants the war to come to an end soon. TOP are currently unwilling to pay any reps. Syzygy must want white peace??? That is some pretty fancy mathematics Mr. rocket scientist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='Kortal' date='11 February 2010 - 10:30 AM' timestamp='1265913018' post='2175180'] Syzygy wants the war to come to an end soon. TOP are currently unwilling to pay any reps. Syzygy must want white peace??? That is some pretty fancy mathematics Mr. rocket scientist [/quote] If you can rationalize those two realities in a way that doesn't come to this conclusion then let's hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='James Dahl' date='11 February 2010 - 11:34 AM' timestamp='1265913284' post='2175192'] If you can rationalize those two realities in a way that doesn't come to this conclusion then let's hear it. [/quote] While it's interesting to state "This individual wants peace and this organization wants this type of peace only, therefor this individual must want that type of peace." it makes absolutely no sense to infer one from the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='Nizzle' date='11 February 2010 - 05:57 PM' timestamp='1265911032' post='2175099'] Legally, yes. Street justice, no. I would think it's a rather simple concept, to be honest. While one may be compelled to go after the retreating attacker, be it for pride or whatever, it certainly doesn't validate it. [/quote] So, you think the attacker in this instance should go free? [quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='11 February 2010 - 05:57 PM' timestamp='1265911060' post='2175100'] [color="#0000FF"]No, his point is more that if someone punches you in the nose and then you quickly get them on the floor and disabled, you do not continue to kick them until they're bloody. You let up and them and then make them answer for what they did.[/color] [/quote] Sorry, I didn't know that TOP was losing [b]that[/b] hard. I know that MK has Oyababy, but hell, if they are on the floor already and not biting, then wow. Thing is, you all talk about trust. Would you accept it if someone who is punching you in the nose, asks for peace [i]while they are doing it[/i]? Why can't TOP be the ones to stop [i]their[/i] attacks to show that they are no threat any more and that they deserve peace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortal Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) Well I guess maybe TOP could eventually figure out they won't get white peace and start working out a realistic deal? Let's not insult Syzygy's intelligence by maintaining he hopes MK will suddenly agree to white peace after all Edit: Also what nizzle said Edited February 11, 2010 by Kortal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhysicsJunky Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='Moridin' date='11 February 2010 - 01:23 PM' timestamp='1265912612' post='2175162'] In fairness to TOP, most if not all of the complaining about the lack of peace terms has been coming from people not actually in TOP. [/quote] That's a fair point, it's probably a relatively small number of prolific posters many of which are outside the alliance. My point was that all the chatter about peace for TOP wasn't striking the right chord for me and I indulged in an outburst of opinion. I'll go back and change my post to better reflect your point because it's a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='Nizzle' date='11 February 2010 - 10:38 AM' timestamp='1265913509' post='2175199'] While it's interesting to state "This individual wants peace and this organization wants this type of peace only, therefor this individual must want that type of peace." it makes absolutely no sense to infer one from the other. [/quote] This isn't Syzygy saying "I support TOP being offered peace terms", he is joining their war coalition, a war coalition, I might add, that has not been defeated. He is directly, materially aiding in their goals, one of which is the acquisition of a "get out of war free" card. So no, this is indeed one of those situations where you can directly correlate the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='SpiderJerusalem' date='11 February 2010 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1265913536' post='2175201'] So, you think the attacker in this instance should go free?[/quote] This is certainly a poor attempt to travel outside the context of what we were discussing. [quote name='SpiderJerusalem' date='11 February 2010 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1265913536' post='2175201'] Thing is, you all talk about trust. Would you accept it if someone who is punching you in the nose, asks for peace [i]while they are doing it[/i]? Why can't TOP be the ones to stop [i]their[/i] attacks to show that they are no threat any more and that they deserve peace? [/quote] The answer here lies in the question of who wants to kill whom more. Is it C&G? Is it TOP? We may never know what happened in back channels after Polar came clean on their mistake of not informing some allies on the peace deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='James Dahl' date='11 February 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1265913781' post='2175213'] This isn't Syzygy saying "I support TOP being offered peace terms", he is joining their war coalition, a war coalition, I might add, that has not been defeated. He is directly, materially aiding in their goals, one of which is the acquisition of a "get out of war free" card. So no, this is indeed one of those situations where you can directly correlate the two. [/quote] ...Hey, if you're ok with that logic of groupthink then I'm not going to stop you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhysicsJunky Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='Nizzle' date='11 February 2010 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1265912753' post='2175168'] I'm sort of confused by this post. I'm not sure anyone is crying about the war, but merely how it came about and what some think should have been done. I'm fairly certain if people were really "crying" they would surrender. [/quote] I never used the word "cry", and while I'll assume you're referring to somebody's comment earlier I'm a bit offended that it comes off as you trying to scare quote words into my mouth. All I said is there has been complaining, and it is complaining by virtue any real lobbying would be done in private and on the OWF it's just out there to score points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='Nizzle' date='11 February 2010 - 10:48 AM' timestamp='1265914119' post='2175224'] ...Hey, if you're ok with that logic of groupthink then I'm not going to stop you. [/quote] It is what it is, you can call it group-think if you like, but then you must not know me very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortal Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) [quote name='James Dahl' date='11 February 2010 - 01:43 PM' timestamp='1265913781' post='2175213'] This isn't Syzygy saying "I support TOP being offered peace terms", he is joining their war coalition, a war coalition, I might add, that has not been defeated. He is directly, materially aiding in their goals, one of which is the acquisition of a "get out of war free" card. So no, this is indeed one of those situations where you can directly correlate the two. [/quote] Rochelle being fired upon with a grenade launcher in midair couldn't have made that leap. Syzygy is fighting on the same side as TOP, so he automatically feels just as strongly that they should get white peace as members of TOP. Following that of course every alliance fighting on TOP's side feels that TOP should get white peace and nothing else. Please reread the things you've been saying and take a short break from posting. If you still feel you're in the right after that then god help you Edited February 11, 2010 by Kortal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) [quote name='PhysicsJunky' date='11 February 2010 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1265914246' post='2175230'] I never used the word "cry", and while I'll assume you're referring to somebody's comment earlier I'm a bit offended that it comes off as you trying to scare quote words into my mouth. All I said is there has been complaining, and it is complaining by virtue any real lobbying would be done in private and on the OWF it's just out there to score points. [/quote] You are absolutely right, I did insert "cry" into your post via my response. I do apologize for that. [quote name='James Dahl' date='11 February 2010 - 11:52 AM' timestamp='1265914323' post='2175232'] It is what it is, you can call it group-think if you like, but then you must not know me very well. [/quote] But, that is precisely what you are doing. "TOP wants this, Syz is fighting for TOP, therefor he wants this too." It's proven completely wrong when you realize Syz doesn't agree with what TOP did but is still fighting for them... Edited February 11, 2010 by Nizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syzygy Posted February 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) Use some logic please. Fact I: - TOP/IRON shot first Conclusion I: - There can't be white peace. Surrender and reparations are *obviously* going to be part of peace terms if they lose this engagement. Fact II: - TOP/IRON have intelligent people in Gov Conclusion II: - They [b]know[/b] about Fact I and Conclusion I So, can everyone stop using this incredibly stupid "white peace" argument? Its a direct insult to everyone who follows the politics of Planet Bob for some years. The reason why I wish this war should end soon is the fact that it started over bullcrap and neither side is even closely fighting for some noble goal. There is no 'right side' or 'good side'. There will be no honor gained in this war. Its complete and utter waste. And some people will sit back, laughing their @#$% off while watching the show, and the involved parties will all regret it some day that they thrown so much out of the window for so little reason and gain. Edited February 11, 2010 by (DAC)Syzygy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Maybe...you all mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='Kortal' date='11 February 2010 - 10:52 AM' timestamp='1265914367' post='2175234'] Rochelle being fired upon with a grenade launcher in midair couldn't have made that leap. Syzygy is fighting on the same side as TOP, so he automatically feels just as strongly that they should get white peace as members of TOP. Following that of course every alliance fighting on TOP's side feels that TOP should get white peace and nothing else. Please reread the things you've been saying and take a short break from posting. If you still feel you're in the right after that then god help you [/quote] That is absurd, most alliances fighting on the TOP "side" are fighting due to treaty obligations. This is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortal Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Major victory for Kortal/Nizzle imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='(DAC)Syzygy' date='11 February 2010 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1265914839' post='2175248'] Use some logic please. Fact I: - TOP/IRON shot first Conclusion I: - There can't be white peace. Surrender and reparations are *obviously* going to be part of peace terms if they lose this engagement. Fact II: - TOP/IRON have intelligent people in Gov Conclusion II: - They [b]know[/b] about Fact I and Conclusion I So, can everyone stop using this incredibly stupid "white peace" argument? Its a direct insult to everyone who follows the politics of Planet Bob for some years. The reason why I wish this war should end soon is the fact that it started over bullcrap and neither side is even closely fighting for some noble goal. There is no 'right side' or 'good side'. There will be no honor gained in this war. Its complete and utter waste. And some people will sit back, laughing their @#$% off while watching the show, and the involved parties will all regret it some day that they thrown so much out of the window for so little reason and gain. [/quote] Syz why do you want white peace? /sarcasm Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='(DAC)Syzygy' date='11 February 2010 - 11:00 AM' timestamp='1265914839' post='2175248'] Use some logic please. Fact I: - TOP/IRON shot first Conclusion I: - There can't be white peace. Surrender and reparations are *obviously* going to be part of peace terms if they lose this engagement. Fact II: - TOP/IRON have intelligent people in Gov Conclusion II: - They [b]know[/b] about Fact I and Conclusion I So, can everyone stop using this incredibly stupid "white peace" argument? Its a direct insult to everyone who follows the politics of Planet Bob for some years. The reason why I wish this war should end soon is the fact that it started over bullcrap and neither side is even closely fighting for some noble goal. There is no 'right side' or 'good side'. There will be no honor gained in this war. Its complete and utter waste. And some people will sit back, laughing their @#$% off while watching the show, and the involved parties will all regret it some day that they thrown so much out of the window for so little reason and gain. [/quote] Alright then, what if you are wrong about Fact II? From what I understand of the TOP / IRON position, they do not see "Fact I" as you and I see it, but rather consider it merely a "treaty chain by other means", and insist on it being considered no different from any other war in the NpO-\m/ war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortal Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) Wow switching right over from calling Syzygy an idiot to calling TOP/IRON idiots :| Simple [b]fact[/b] here is that no one above the status of regular member in TOP believes (don't go dredging up a post on the owf now, that's hardly where it counts) that white peace is attainable/should be sought above all else. All we have to wait for is for when they're able to put aside their pride and actually communicate as such to MK Edited February 11, 2010 by Kortal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhysicsJunky Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='(DAC)Syzygy' date='11 February 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1265914839' post='2175248']So, can everyone stop using this incredibly stupid "white peace" argument? Its a direct insult to everyone who follows the politics of Planet Bob for some years[/quote] I know it's hard to follow the entirety of this war Syz, but the main reason I spoke at all is there have been a number of people stating they desire a white or light peace from the first days of this mess which frustrated me. Perhaps they merely desire but don't expect it but it's a fair number of people and I don't think an entirety of them are what you would describe as inexperienced. Talks of this war ending are still a bit absurd in my opinion, until this is fought out to its conclusion it would just be a time out. Members of TOP have stated they have enough in reserve to put the hurting on their opponents for a long time to come and I believe them. This whole affair if perfectly capable of ending naturally with a white peace if it lasts long enough. The last fronts of the Karma war ended once they were no longer worth fighting without much outside intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='SpiderJerusalem' date='11 February 2010 - 01:38 PM' timestamp='1265913536' post='2175201'] Sorry, I didn't know that TOP was losing [b]that[/b] hard. I know that MK has Oyababy, but hell, if they are on the floor already and not biting, then wow. Thing is, you all talk about trust. Would you accept it if someone who is punching you in the nose, asks for peace [i]while they are doing it[/i]? Why can't TOP be the ones to stop [i]their[/i] attacks to show that they are no threat any more and that they deserve peace? [/quote] [color="#0000FF"]I never said TOP was on the floor, however, if they are interested in ending the fight then why not? Unless you clearly have a motive for wishing to see the war continue. Now, I have no idea what you're talking about trust. I have never said such a thing. I am merely explaining to you what DAC's argument was.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der_ko Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='Kortal' date='11 February 2010 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1265915578' post='2175262'] Wow switching right over from calling Syzygy an idiot to calling TOP/IRON idiots :| [/quote] To be fair, they are all idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='der_ko' date='11 February 2010 - 12:28 PM' timestamp='1265916501' post='2175288'] To be fair, they are all idiots. [/quote] Indeed everyone involved in this war is. At least we agree on something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der_ko Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='Nizzle' date='11 February 2010 - 08:31 PM' timestamp='1265916707' post='2175292'] Indeed everyone involved in this war is. At least we agree on something. [/quote] \m/, NpO, TOP and IRON have all acted like idiots in this war, the rest of us, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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