\m/, I just want to help

[Kzoppistan]

Well my friend this is human nature at it's finest you just fail to realize or accept how human truly act.

You may be surprised at how well I understand how humans act. If taking from others is natural, so too, is the act of preventing them. It is the classic struggle between individual liberty and collective security. In the dangerous world of unrestrained violence simply because one is in the position to commit it on another, no one is safe.

[Fantastico]

I mean, I knew Polar would be up in arms over this, and rightly so, but really, that's not a good reason. Unless you're trying to be ironic.

Wait. They are right, but being right is not a good reason?

As for irony, lolwut?

[AlmightyGrub]

The only alliance that is counting on you to do or not do anything is NpO itself, that I'm aware of, at least.

I'm curious as to why NpO is so interested in this matter myself. As a sovereign alliance, you have the inherent ability to do anything that you please, much like \m/, GOONS and PC share the same ability. It seems, though, that you have a problem that they exercised their ability to do what they want and you are now exercising your own ability to do as you please; exercising your own sovereignty to condemn the sovereignty of others. If FoA had requested your aid, it would be a slightly different story, but it's rather clear that they have not. Your stance on this issue is hypocritical at best. You might be consistent in voicing the same opinion now that you had during the Athenian affair, but that opinion itself is seemingly inconsistent. As a sovereign, though, you have the ability to be hypocritical if you so please, so I'm in no way trying to imply that you can't be, simply that you are.

The most important thing that I believe should be taken away from this entire affair is that doing what one pleases tends to open one's self to consequences. Sometimes good, sometimes bad and sometimes both. I'd like to add that I don't particularly agree with tech-raiding myself, and have never partaken in it. I am also of the opinion that the raid on FoA was unwarranted and idiotic, much like the raid on Ni! was back when I was fairly inactive.

With rights or sovereignty comes responsibility. Whether you choose to acknowledge that or not is your call, but I will reserve the right to point it out. I do not like you much George, I think we are fairly clear on your thoughts as well, but all that aside, I will continue to operate how I do. My rantiness and hopeless sense of fair play is something you will have to learn to live with... I am not going away.

As for being hypocritical, I think you need to actually comprehend the meaning of the word before you start trying to use it in a sentence. Perhaps you could examine your own actions of the last 12 months through the same blurry vision you have and the focus on the meaning of the word will become so much clearer. Polaris is consistent in its outlook and will remain so, if our actions during Athens and Ni was hypocritical, expect us to remain hypocritical long into the future.

This matter is being resolved and I expect that people will universally acknowledge that being a complete tool just because you have the sovereign right to do so will still be met with resistance by others.

[Earogema]

Wait. They are right, but being right is not a good reason?

As for irony, lolwut?

It was ironic that he would cite "sovereignty" as why Polar is here defending FOA, when FOA itself has already closed the matter.

And I said "rightly so" as it fits with Polar's usual mentality, so I understood why so much of them have come out to talk about this particular issue.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Earogema

[AlmightyGrub]

It was ironic that he would cite "sovereignty" as why Polar is here defending FOA, when FOA itself has already closed the matter.

And I said "rightly so" as it fits with Polar's usual mentality, so I understood why so much of them have come out to talk about this particular issue.

If I could even follow your arguments and those preceding I would not really have to address them because they are flawed in their assumptions from the outset. I do not give a toss about sovereignty, I care about common sense and decency. The solution in my mind to people who want to push the boundaries of acceptability is simply to remind them there are boundaries. I am standing on one right now and I am telling you I consider it a boundary. You are free to reject my assertion, you are free to argue my position, but it will not change the fact I am on the boundary.

[Earogema]

If I could even follow your arguments and those preceding I would not really have to address them because they are flawed in their assumptions from the outset. I do not give a toss about sovereignty, I care about common sense and decency. The solution in my mind to people who want to push the boundaries of acceptability is simply to remind them there are boundaries. I am standing on one right now and I am telling you I consider it a boundary. You are free to reject my assertion, you are free to argue my position, but it will not change the fact I am on the boundary.

My good sir, I did not cite you, rather, I cited a member of your alliance that cited (lol cite, I'm using that word a lot) sovereignty.

Besides, boundaries are terrible, terrible things. TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!

[Tick1]

You may be surprised at how well I understand how humans act. If taking from others is natural, so too, is the act of preventing them. It is the classic struggle between individual liberty and collective security. In the dangerous world of unrestrained violence simply because one is in the position to commit it on another, no one is safe.

Although you believe your acts of justice aren't immoral at all. You believe reigning your destruction upon alliances because they raid is the call for threatening someone. If the AlimightyGrub actually finds this to be disturbing and threatening he'd have already declared upon the alliances. His reckless attitude will eventually be the cause for another global war which is far worse than any tech raid. While it will be in the cause of justice it will also lead to the destruction of more infrastructure than any raiders have ever done.

[AlmightyGrub]

Although you believe your acts of justice aren't immoral at all. You believe reigning your destruction upon alliances because they raid is the call for threatening someone. If the AlimightyGrub actually finds this to be disturbing and threatening he'd have already declared upon the alliances. His reckless attitude will eventually be the cause for another global war which is far worse than any tech raid. While it will be in the cause of justice it will also lead to the destruction of more infrastructure than any raiders have ever done.

I understand that English may well not be your primary form of communication but what?

[Tick1]

I understand that English may well not be your primary form of communication but what?

What I'm saying is you'll be the cause of more destruction than any tech raider. Your inane actions in the pursuit of justice will be the cause of a global war. Is that simple enough for you? Or should I condense it more to your satisfaction?

[Earogema]

I understand that English may well not be your primary form of communication but what?

I believe he's saying that "Justice" in the form of violence is the exact same destruction that raiders would have caused, only on a greater scale.

The circle is complete etc.

EDIT:

What I'm saying is you'll be the cause of more destruction than any tech raider. Your inane actions in the pursuit of justice will be the cause of a global war. Is that simple enough for you? Or should I condense it more to your satisfaction?

Yeah, see, there we go.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Earogema

[Sal Paradise]

What I'm saying is you'll be the cause of more destruction than any tech raider. Your inane actions in the pursuit of justice will be the cause of a global war. Is that simple enough for you? Or should I condense it more to your satisfaction?

Tech raiding is only fun for the tech raiders. Global war is fun for all.

[Tick1]

Tech raiding is only fun for the tech raiders. Global war is fun for all.

I'm so deplored that people have failed to understand nature in it's natural state. You fail to understand our need for destruction and treachery, the moralist imagine that they are better than tech raiders because when they attack someone it's for justice. Your scapegoat is completely unreliable on the terms that your wars have not been justified and are a mockery of anything noteworthy. Your cause for pointing out these wars is that you yourself only wish to declare war on someone, which is why this waste of a propaganda method has been used. If your so bored Alterego please declare war on someone and avoid this public badgering.

You claim you seek justice inside this public display.

You claim you seek a solution to this raid.

Your scapegoat (Justice) is deplored for the fact that you hold no true moral values.

Please refer to the bold area, as I agree with you completely.

[Kzoppistan]

Although you believe your acts of justice aren't immoral at all. You believe reigning your destruction upon alliances because they raid is the call for threatening someone. If the AlimightyGrub actually finds this to be disturbing and threatening he'd have already declared upon the alliances. His reckless attitude will eventually be the cause for another global war which is far worse than any tech raid. While it will be in the cause of justice it will also lead to the destruction of more infrastructure than any raiders have ever done.

Where did you get that snazzy crystal ball that tells the future?

My personal opinion is that using force, or the threat of, to convince others not to take people's things who have done you no wrong benefits the many, and myself as well, by guaranteeing general security.

[Earogema]

Tech raiding is only fun for the tech raiders. Global war is fun for all.

I like the way this man thinks.

Although, isn't passion a lie Sal? I mean, I thought Peace was what you Jedi were all about.

[AlmightyGrub]

Please refer to the bold area, as I agree with you completely.

I honestly think you have no concept of what I am thinking or what I believe. As I find your argument to be somewhat infantile, I will leave it alone and simply tell you, I am just as happy with peace as war, I am just as happy at war as peace.

[Tick1]

Where did you get that snazzy crystal ball that tells the future?

My personal opinion is that using force, or the threat of, to convince others not to take people's things who have done you no wrong benefits the many, and myself as well, by guaranteeing general security.

Well so far I've noticed NpO's attempt to prevent all raiders has failed and will continue to fail until a global war takes place. Which once again wont stop tech raiders it will only hasting the destruction of tech.

Also I bought the crystal ball on Ebay. Got a problem with the predictions?

[Sal Paradise]

I like the way this man thinks.

Although, isn't passion a lie Sal? I mean, I thought Peace was what you Jedi were all about.

What do you think the lightsabers are for?

[Earogema]

What do you think the lightsabers are for?

I always thought they were just cool knifes you could cut bread with, and it instantly becomes toast.

I honestly think you have no concept of what I am thinking or what I believe. As I find your argument to be somewhat infantile, I will leave it alone and simply tell you, I am just as happy with peace as war, I am just as happy at war as peace.

Wait, then why do you hate this tech raid?

[Sal Paradise]

I always thought they were just cool knifes you could cut bread with, and it instantly becomes toast.

This is why you're not a Jedi anymore.

Wait, toast? That's awesome...

Wait, then why do you hate this tech raid?

I'm just as happy eating cake as having cake. I'm just as happy having cake as eating cake.

[Fantastico]

Wait, then why do you hate this tech raid?

Therein lies the Grub.

Couldn't resist, sorry.

edit: b excess

Edited January 19, 2010 by Fantastico

[Earogema]

This is why you're not a Jedi anymore.

Wait, toast? That's awesome...

I'm just as happy eating cake as having cake. I'm just as happy having cake as eating cake.

You are wrong my good friend.

I left TJO when TJO had become nothing but a shell of its former self. I left in disarray at the fact that Doitzel was allowed to rule rampantly. Nevermind that he was always in power.

Also, I didn't know you were part of ODN now.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Earogema

[George the Great]

With rights or sovereignty comes responsibility. Whether you choose to acknowledge that or not is your call, but I will reserve the right to point it out. I do not like you much George, I think we are fairly clear on your thoughts as well, but all that aside, I will continue to operate how I do. My rantiness and hopeless sense of fair play is something you will have to learn to live with... I am not going away.

As for being hypocritical, I think you need to actually comprehend the meaning of the word before you start trying to use it in a sentence. Perhaps you could examine your own actions of the last 12 months through the same blurry vision you have and the focus on the meaning of the word will become so much clearer. Polaris is consistent in its outlook and will remain so, if our actions during Athens and Ni was hypocritical, expect us to remain hypocritical long into the future.

And where do these rights come with responsibility? Responsibility is another sovereign choice that can be made, but sovereignty does not have to be responsible, if it did, then there would never be any possibility of irresponsibility. Responsibility is not an objective term either, it is subjective, much like "good" and "bad". And while you may not be going away, learning to live with you is definitely not something that I have to do. You could always attack me for not doing so and see if that fixes the problem.

I'm well aware of the meaning of hypocrisy. Maybe you should have considered its meaning a bit more prior to threatening to attack an other's sovereignty by using your own.

hypocrisy [hɪˈpɒkrəsɪ]

n pl -sies

1. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc., contrary to one's real character or actual behaviour, esp the pretence of virtue and piety

2. an act or instance of this

inconsistency [ˌɪnkənˈsɪstənsɪ]

n pl -cies

1. lack of consistency or agreement; incompatibility

2. an inconsistent feature or quality

3. (Philosophy / Logic) Logic

a. the property of being inconsistent

b. a self-contradictory proposition

\m/, GOONS and PC attacked the alliance by exerting their own sovereignty in order to acquire the sovereign technology of FoA for their own, therefore NpO may attack \m/, GOONS and PC by exerting its own sovereignty to encroach upon theirs in order to punish them for their encroachment upon the sovereignty of FoA.

You're saying that \m/, GOONS and PC arbitrarily attacking the sovereign alliance FoA is wrong (Which I agree with) and then saying that you shall arbitrarily attack \m/, GOONS and PC in order for some sort of distorted justice to be realized (Which I don't agree with).

Arbitrarily attacking alliances cannot be both wrong and just at the same time, or can they? It's been awhile since I looked in a logic book.

As far as my own actions go, they actually have no bearing on this at all. Perhaps you should examine my past 12 months, if you think they're important, and tell me about them since the burden of proof is on you for that straw-man. I am glad, however, that Polaris is so proud of its consistency in its actions that it is so willing and proud to grandstand its own inconsistent standards. That leads me to wonder, though, how far back this consistency reaches. Does it go back to before the NoCB war?

This matter is being resolved and I expect that people will universally acknowledge that being a complete tool just because you have the sovereign right to do so will still be met with resistance by others.

I'm glad that matter is being resolved, however. I'd submit to your infinite wisdom, but I have a nasty cramp in my leg, and kneeling would be hard for me. I do hope that your closing expectation is realized by all, especially when "others" are involved parties.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

What is really funny is how all the chanting of "do something about it" has faded down, and instead there is a nonstop spam barrage of that tired old meme "if you do something about it you will be no better than they are!"

[Earogema]

What is really funny is how all the chanting of "do something about it" has faded down, and instead there is a nonstop spam barrage of that tired old meme "if you do something about it you will be no better than they are!"

Well yeah.

We've already acknowledged what we are. It's them that hate us.

I don't care either way, but if propaganda is necessary to this new world, then by all means, I'll be part of it.

[Baldr]

It was ironic that he would cite "sovereignty" as why Polar is here defending FOA, when FOA itself has already closed the matter.

Of course, they closed the matter while lying on the ground, with swords on their throats, but yeah, they sure cried "Uncle".

Three alliances, all larger than them, jumped them for no reason, with no warning. They accepted the "You get nothing out of this, but we'll let you go" agreement. I'm pretty sure everyone understands that.

I find if amusing how many people here believe it's perfectly acceptable for these alliances to gang up on anyone smaller than them, but are pissed off at Grub for even *saying* that he might attack them for it.

It is the standard Tech Raider mindset, though. "As long as we gang up on someone who can't fight back, this is a great idea, we should do it! And as soon as someone fights back, we'll scream and cry about it!". It's like a mugger who starts whining when a bystander nabs him as he tries to make a getaway. "Hey, I stole her purse, not yours, you shouldn't be getting involved, mind your own business!"