In response to the "cold war" of CN

[Dochartaigh]

This whole karma war has really change lots of things in planet bob. The existence of karma it self is now questionable. What will they do after the so called "tyrant" alliance got punished ?

Karma in and of itself is something of a misnomer due primarily to the fact that it has constantly had crap attached to it that was never once stated by the majority (maybe the occasional person in Karma stated that crap) on the Karma side. add to this the fact that many alliances that fought on the Karma side did not fight with Karma but for a specific alliance instead. Polaris is the prime example of this.

so "Karma" itself means something different to many alliances. for example, NPO and the Heg alliances have listed that Karma means no reps ever, light terms all the time if not white peace all the time, no aggressive wars ever, and crap like that. something that Karma itself never stated. to those who fought with Karma it was about acceptable terms versus the draconian terms offered previously. white peace for alliances that only entered due to honoring treaties. aggressive wars acceptable so long as the CB was legit (this of course will always be a subjective matter) and so on.

as for cold wars, i would say that the GPW-GWIII era saw the longest Cold War that did flash hot twice. it also showed proxy wars being used to create a global war (i.e. Fark-LUE treaty that was announced after GOONS hit Fark).

the period preceding the Karma war was a psuedo-Cold war in that diplomatic efforts to form a coalition were underway but nothing could truly be overt without risking premature destruction by the power of the time.

Now, we have rising tensions between 2 sides but since the two sides are still shifting, the next mini-war may not evolve with the same exact sides as now though most likely they will be quite similar due to the treaty web.

[Opethian]

What is it with so many nobodies thinking their opinion warrants a thread because it's super, super important? The only individual 'opinion' thread I actually enjoyed was Bros'.

And what makes you so special as to determine whose opinion is worthy of posting?

I mean, really...

who are you anyway?

That's a genuine question. Someone who so wholeheartedly extols the virtue of name recognition as the de facto grounds for stating any kind of opinion should at the very least be a person I've heard of.

[Ryan Greenberg]

There is no Cold War right now. The sides can change from just one treaty cancellation. BTW, if the Karma War was a "Cold War", than I can't wait for the next Great War.

[Cobalt]

Karma in and of itself is something of a misnomer due primarily to the fact that it has constantly had crap attached to it that was never once stated by the majority (maybe the occasional person in Karma stated that crap) on the Karma side. add to this the fact that many alliances that fought on the Karma side did not fight with Karma but for a specific alliance instead. Polaris is the prime example of this.

so "Karma" itself means something different to many alliances. for example, NPO and the Heg alliances have listed that Karma means no reps ever, light terms all the time if not white peace all the time, no aggressive wars ever, and crap like that. something that Karma itself never stated. to those who fought with Karma it was about acceptable terms versus the draconian terms offered previously. white peace for alliances that only entered due to honoring treaties. aggressive wars acceptable so long as the CB was legit (this of course will always be a subjective matter) and so on.

as for cold wars, i would say that the GPW-GWIII era saw the longest Cold War that did flash hot twice. it also showed proxy wars being used to create a global war (i.e. Fark-LUE treaty that was announced after GOONS hit Fark).

the period preceding the Karma war was a psuedo-Cold war in that diplomatic efforts to form a coalition were underway but nothing could truly be overt without risking premature destruction by the power of the time.

Now, we have rising tensions between 2 sides but since the two sides are still shifting, the next mini-war may not evolve with the same exact sides as now though most likely they will be quite similar due to the treaty web.

Rarely do I find myself agreeing with your comments, apparently this is one of those rare instances. You've got it 100% right this time.

I'm not sure it is possible to "win" in cybernations without conflict.

Its entirely possible, and more often than not when the dust settles from conflicts, you realize that the actual battle was more just going through the motions so that the end result, which was predetermined through diplomacy and careful planning, could come to exist than an actual deciding factor in the outcome.

I find that on planet bob, not only is the pen equally or more mighty than the sword, but the sword stays sheathed until the pen decides the time, place, and outcome. To continue the analogy, it seems the key to victory is to either be doing the writing yourself, or hope your side contains better authors.

[Dochartaigh]

Rarely do I find myself agreeing with your comments, apparently this is one of those rare instances. You've got it 100% right this time.

this is just how it begins. soon, you will be living by my words.

[monkeybum]

I think another factor at work, is the sheer size of the "undetermined" blocs and alliances. No recognizable side can really win without the support of some of the undetermined alliances/blocs.

Unfortunatly they tend to decide based more on the activation of treaties, and not based on a legitimate CB, or global politics.

What this means is that whichever side actually starts the war, needs to focus on where on the treaty web to begin the war, rather then what event (CB) starts the war.

[OneBallMan]

I, for one, welcome our MK overlords.

[James Wilson]

What is it with so many nobodies thinking their opinion warrants a thread because it's super, super important? The only individual 'opinion' thread I actually enjoyed was Bros'.

Everyone is entitled to express their opinion and I'd think that you, of all people, would understand that.

Just because you don't care about this person's opinion doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way.

[zzzptm]

This is not a Cold War. I believe we'll see much more repositioning after the TPF and 57th Overlander conflicts. Alliances are not happy with current treaty obligations and are looking to streamline their commitments. There are lines between Purple/Hegemony and SF/CnG and alliances with connections to both sides are looking hard at those connections. Some will sever ties with one side or the other. Some will choose to brave complications and keep their ties strong, come what may... but then will have hard choices to make in the next inevitable conflict.

[Cesar Julian]

The Karma War was not a cold war. There was actually quite alot of fighting.

RL Cold War had Korean War, Afghanistan War, Vietnam War, along with some other small conflicts.

Lack of fighting =/= Cold War.

...just saying

Edited January 14, 2010 by Cesar21

[Ryan Greenberg]

RL Cold War had Korean War, Afghanistan War, Vietnam War, along with some other small conflicts.

Lack of fighting =/= Cold War.

...just saying

The Karma War was a world war. Not a smaller proxy war.

[Heft]

Its entirely possible, and more often than not when the dust settles from conflicts, you realize that the actual battle was more just going through the motions so that the end result, which was predetermined through diplomacy and careful planning, could come to exist than an actual deciding factor in the outcome.

I find that on planet bob, not only is the pen equally or more mighty than the sword, but the sword stays sheathed until the pen decides the time, place, and outcome. To continue the analogy, it seems the key to victory is to either be doing the writing yourself, or hope your side contains better authors.

Conflict does not necessarily mean war or physical fighting. It's entirely possible to be in conflict without ever unsheathing any swords.

[Lord Panda]

I agree with heft.

General hostility between two parties is considered a conflict, as well as a verbal disagreement between friends.

Just because you aren't banging the other guy's head into a wall while punching him in the kidney does not mean you aren't in conflict.

[KainIIIC]

Interesting indeed. Post-karma we lived in a multipolar world different poles represented by Citadel and Frostbite on extremes, and the Hegemony/Purple/White vs. SF and C&G. One of the more apparent ramifications of the TPF war was the dissolution of Frostbite (NSO is now further away from C&G, STA is now closer, Polar is still middling through it all) and what seems like a defacto dissolution of Citadel, with the core (TOP, Argent, probably MHA) moving back to the Hegemony... and Gramlins closer towards... SF? Disintegration? Idk

Still, with the lines being drawn less discretely than before, I've gotta go with Hal and say that recent events have moved us closer to a bipolar world, but we're still far from it with a lot of uncertainties. Primarily, where does LEO fall during wartime, how about Polar, former 'BLEU' and AZTEC? How about non-Sparta NOIR alliances?

I always saw Polar, MHA and TOP as the big beneficiaries of the Karma war, although definitely MK and C&G at large too. Gramlins and RoK would be Karma's biggest 'losers', as although they've won, they've ended up losing much more than what margins they gained. I would've included VE in this category, except for the fact that they've managed to rebuild remarkably well and are back above pre-war strength.

[Feanor Noldorin]

Cold War?

I don't have any sense that we are in a Cold War.

[DictatatorDan]

The Peace is A Lie.

We are in a world, where true freindship or emotion cannot exist, except for ones alliance. Nationalism is motivated and pervaded in every single alliance, where all as one must do to make lifelong enemies out of an alliance is utter the words, and change the history to fit the present.

It's not so much as erasing the actual history itself, as it is uplaying and downplaying certain factors. Lets take NpO-NPO for instance, for around two years (probably wrong on this), Pacificans and Polars alike were told that they were brothers, and many participated in the fervor. Many were whipped into a hysteria where, they felt genuine affection for one another, as long as it remained benificial to the inner parties to maintian the poltical alliance. After its complete and utter collapse, the historic reccord of both alliances has been reimagined to fit the current poltical status, and it is now as if we have always been mortal enemies.

O/ Doublethink

[Dr hairy Ballz]

The wars over, I WON.