An Announcement from Athens and Ragnarok

[janax]

Some good points, and one I'd like to add on. The fact that this splinter group was conceived of and put in motion shows the capacity to do such an action, whether or not it was successful. What reason does an alliance that has been the target of such actions have to believe the word of the perpetrator?

The point of espionage and spy operations is that it is a secret. For all we know, mhawk has agents in every other alliance on Bob. His guilt in this incident means that his word is invalid, and thus diplomacy has little effect.

Do you believe a man who says "Yeah, so I set in motion a spy operation on your alliance, but don't worry I won't do it again."?

Many of you seem to believe Athens when they say they won't tech raid 41 man AAs anymore

Or that Vox stopped spying.

Or Alliance X, Y and Z stopped Permi-ZIing people

Etc

[Bob]

Now THAT'S interesting. He set himself peacemode before going on vacation, right? Somehow, if true, that spikes the Athens theory that M*A*S*H 'leaked war plans to the enemy' after the DOW. That M*A*S*H leaked them after the DOW, not the theory.

I've been known to go peace mode while on vacation myself. Nothing sinister about it, just didn't wanna tempt the more or less innocents looking for a quick smash & grab into taking shots. And totally understandable if mhawk did, knowing that things were heating up and not wanting to come home to a radioactive ruin he could do nothing to prevent.

No, its not lol

More of TPF than mhawk was in peace

Many of you seem to believe Athens when they say they won't tech raid 41 man AAs anymore

There is proof they haven't, unless you for some reason can't see the wars.

Or Alliance X, Y and Z stopped Permi-ZIing people

Etc

Again, check out out the wars around the Cyberverse. See if anyone is being PZI'd.

Or that Vox stopped spying.

Only point that is viable. While it is not possible to prove this, there is no evidence to the contrary.

When you talk about spying, you can't really prove you aren't doing it, all that can happen is you can be caught for doing it, like mhawk was.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris

[ktarthan]

Many of you seem to believe Athens when they say they won't tech raid 41 man AAs anymore

Or that Vox stopped spying.

Or Alliance X, Y and Z stopped Permi-ZIing people

Etc

I cannot speak for those you must be addressing, but I've been around for less than a month, so my impressions are only those I have gained in that time. I personally know nothing of the histories you speak of.

If you were simply directing your reply near instead of at me, then all I can say is that people tend to be measured by their actions, but negative actions can be forgiven over time. However, maybe some do not believe that 6 months is enough to forgive the act of espionage.

[jimbacher]

Some good points, and one I'd like to add on. The fact that this splinter group was conceived of and put in motion shows the capacity to do such an action, whether or not it was successful. What reason does an alliance that has been the target of such actions have to believe the word of the perpetrator?

The point of espionage and spy operations is that it is a secret. For all we know, mhawk has agents in every other alliance on Bob. His guilt in this incident means that his word is invalid, and thus diplomacy has little effect.

Do you believe a man who says "Yeah, so I set in motion a spy operation on your alliance, but don't worry I won't do it again."?

Watch it, or our secret agents will get you at night.

[jimbacher]

I cannot speak for those you must be addressing, but I've been around for less than a month, so my impressions are only those I have gained in that time. I personally know nothing of the histories you speak of.

If you were simply directing your reply near instead of at me, then all I can say is that people tend to be measured by their actions, but negative actions can be forgiven over time. However, maybe some do not believe that 6 months is enough to forgive the act of espionage.

What about a war that put TPF to 1/7 their pre-war NS. Think that maybe that damage would have been enough, but I guess not. This is nothing more then a war to try to finish us off. How bout the fact that this occured during said war, and not during peacetime.

[sawser@yahoo.com]

Watch it, or our secret agents will get you at night.

Ixnay on the EcreSagentsnay

[Eric Cantona]

If you have nothing of value to add, you can stop spamming.

[OneBallMan]

Putting terms out how always been done.

It has always been my idea that if you ditch your alliance, your heart and loyalty no longer belongs there.

This times fourty gabagillion. I salute Athens, RoK and GOD for offering decent terms for the many hundreds of TPF nations who'll surrender after 4 days, seeing that we survived the 1 day Karma War. While my sarcasm might seem unappreciative, I can't believe that people are whinging that you posted individual terms. Seems pretty standard practice.

[Daeryon]

Gee lemme think...

um no.

[ktarthan]

What about a war that put TPF to 1/7 their pre-war NS. Think that maybe that damage would have been enough, but I guess not. This is nothing more then a war to try to finish us off. How bout the fact that this occured during said war, and not during peacetime.

Since the espionage happened during the war, I'm not sure how the result of the war should have anything to do with the forgiveness of said espionage. It also has nothing to do with the intent.

I'm not trying to make a case for the CB itself, as that has been discussed to the moon and back already, but my point is that whether or not your belief is properly founded, if you believe someone to be guilty of espionage, then diplomacy has little value.

[jimbacher]

Since the espionage happened during the war, I'm not sure how the result of the war should have anything to do with the forgiveness of said espionage. It also has nothing to do with the intent.

I'm not trying to make a case for the CB itself, as that has been discussed to the moon and back already, but my point is that whether or not your belief is properly founded, if you believe someone to be guilty of espionage, then diplomacy has little value.

Tell that to NPO, but since you have only been around a month, you have no idea what I am talking about. Also, like someone eles said, cruise missiles are launched during the war, not before it. Therefore by your logic, we should have another war for the cruise missile launched.

[ktarthan]

Tell that to NPO, but since you have only been around a month, you have no idea what I am talking about. Also, like someone eles said, cruise missiles are launched during the war, not before it. Therefore by your logic, we should have another war for the cruise missile launched.

You are correct, I have no idea what you are talking about. But if you'd like to explain it to me (doesn't have to be here, as that is a mite off topic), I'd be happy to listen.

Again, though, I am not arguing at all about the case for war. I am talking about the here and now where war has already been declared and people are asking why diplomacy was not attempted. Obviously in the minds of those who have declared war, their case is valid. From that perspective, what reason would they have to attempt diplomacy, if they have no reason to believe what he says?

Also, while this might be my limited experience talking, I was under the imperssion that espionage is orders of magnitude less severe than a cruise missile. And while you can very easily see evidence that a nation is not launching cruise missiles at you, in order to over time forgive them for past transgressions, it is not nearly that easy for espionage.

[Rhizoctonia]

People keep tossing that around as if it was actually possible to do such a thing to an alliance the size of Athens...

^agree.....For someone to actually join and actually work his way up or play a significant role to be able to pull something like this off would be completely not worth the effort...unless they want it to happen a year or years from now

[Ardus]

^agree.....For someone to actually join and actually work his way up or play a significant role to be able to pull something like this off would be completely not worth the effort...unless they want it to happen a year or years from now

You don't have to rise through the ranks to cause a major disturbance. A notable influx of members brings great joy, but the exodus of those same members say, two months later, can be crippling to an alliance's internal cohesion, especially if they all leave in a huff and stir things up on the way out.

[Nizzle]

You don't have to rise through the ranks to cause a major disturbance. A notable influx of members brings great joy, but the exodus of those same members say, two months later, can be crippling to an alliance's internal cohesion, especially if they all leave in a huff and stir things up on the way out.

Yeah. I'm sure an established alliance would really be sad if a smaller alliance joins them, stays, and then leaves. That would be probably devastate the longstanding bonds the alliance had before this other one joined up.

I'm convinced.

EDIT: Not only that, but the government make up of Athens would allow the stamping out of destabilizing elements rather quickly.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Nizzle

[Kahnite]

learn to pick smarter leaders who don't do dumb crap and you won't have this problem.

Seems this applies exclusively to the aggressors in this matter.

[x Tela x]

I won't be offering individual terms to Athens, though I do appreciate the gesture shown to TPF here. Athens may surrender to me en masse, or not at all. Our glorious alliance shall not rest until all of Athens is in ashes, or TPF is free.

Edit:

Or until I run out of Athens ghosts to attack.

..Since that's all that's in range.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Lady Gaga

[deathcat]

I won't be offering individual terms to Athens, though I do appreciate the gesture shown to TPF here. Athens may surrender to me en masse, or not at all. Our glorious alliance shall not rest until all of Athens is in ashes, or TPF is free.

Edit:

Or until I run out of Athens ghosts to attack.

..Since that's all that's in range.

Tela.. you have my stick *my swords and axes are all at the front melting in the green glow that is our battlefields!

oo/

[Floul1]

Nice Surrender Terms

Although The Alliances they are members of won't be too happy

o/ Athens

o/ Ragnarok

o/ GOD

o/ \m/