A Joint Announcement from the Orange Defense Network and Athens

[Soccerbum]

I am excited to see us treaty Athens and I look forward to the future of our relationship.

I only see good things happening between us.

[Pingu]

Thank you to those who have offered congratulations and good wishes. It is heartening to see positive comments from friends and allies such as GATO and MK as well as those with whom relations are more strained, such as IRON.

I am pleased that we have reached this step in our continually developing relationship with Athens, and look forward with confidence to the future.

[William Blake]

I'm surprised ODN hasn't cancelled yet.

lol

Also, congrats on the treaty, ODN. Looks like the more focused FA stance/direction is paying off.

[Mussolandia]

Honestly I've forgotten what you do, otherwise I would make some sort of witty reply. I assume it has something to do with making gross generalizations and begging for attention.

But wait! Let's take a closer look at what you said.

"And by this time you've already bailed on each of your allies except for the ones on the winning side."

So you are accusing us of being opportunists. I disagree. I can think of a time or two we got pretty banged up because we were on the losing side. Citrus War and GWIII come to mind. But whatever. Let's pretend your simplistic and incorrect view is right.

I doubt the ODN had much of a choice when fighting the Citrus War, unless you consider not fighting back in a 1 v 1 war an option. Still, about half the government deserted the night the war started. GWIII is probably the one example of the ODN barging into a losing war.

The ODN's characterization as a cowardly, opportunistic alliance is too simplistic indeed. I rather choose to think of it as erratic and disappointing to their allies. Their alliances with GOONS and NpO were totally screwed up, just to name two examples. IRON has been the latest subject of the ODN's ability to put itself in a position where they will have to displease a group of allies in favor of others.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Mussolandia

[merlin]

I doubt the ODN had much of a choice when fighting the Citrus War, unless you consider not fighting back in a 1 v 1 war an option. Still, about half the government deserted the night the war started. GWIII is probably the one example of the ODN barging into a losing war.

The ODN's characterization as a cowardly, opportunistic alliance is too simplistic indeed. I rather choose to think of it as erratic and disappointing to their allies. Their alliances with GOONS and NpO were totally screwed up, just to name two examples. IRON has been the latest subject of the ODN's ability to put itself in a position where they will have to displease a group of allies in favor of others.

Ok, we can agree on that.

I'll let you use your judgment as to whether or not we plan on repeating that mistake in the future.

[John Ron]

I'm getting a bit tired of all the ODN insults. By now they must have a pretty big chip on their shoulder and I'd hate to be the enemy who tested their resolve now. I'm guessing the next war, curbstomp or not, ODN will definitely be their for their allies.

[worrgames08]

Beautiful treaty. Congrats ODN.

[Earogema]

I'm getting a bit tired of all the ODN insults. By now they must have a pretty big chip on their shoulder and I'd hate to be the enemy who tested their resolve now. I'm guessing the next war, curbstomp or not, ODN will definitely be their for their allies.

Everybody is jealous that ODN never lost sanction

[Augustus Autumn]

There aren't words to capture the hilarity contained in this.

[Azaghul]

The "Optional Defense Network" crap and related insults are getting old. Come up with something new.

[Mussolandia]

Ok, we can agree on that.

I'll let you use your judgment as to whether or not we plan on repeating that mistake in the future.

There is reasonable criticism of both past and present actions that can be raised at your alliance, from many corners of the world. Some choose to simplify it and make fun at an acronym, but to simply brush it away (as in the post above mine) is nonsense. You have a long, storied history which you have to live with. The decision making process that led you to these unsatisfactory outcomes (for some) is still in place. A little caveat emptor doesn't hurt.

That's all from me, I'm done with this thread.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Mussolandia

[youwish959]

The "Optional Defense Network" crap and related insults are getting old. Come up with something new.

They were funny when your side was making them.

[Seerow]

They were funny when your side was making them.

Yeah imagine that, the funny wears off after two years and you need to get new material now and then.

[ChairmanHal]

The "Optional Defense Network" crap and related insults are getting old. Come up with something new.

Ok, how about this: timing has never exactly been a hallmark of ODN's existence on Planet Bob.

[Kilkenny]

The "Optional Defense Network" crap and related insults are getting old. Come up with something new.

Ok, this is true, but come on, they made it ssssooo easy. I mean it is an oAoDP after all. There are way too many people who just can't resist the comments.

I'd o/ something but I think that's Optional as well.

[James I]

Congratulations to ODN and Athens.

Ok, how about this: timing has never exactly been a hallmark of ODN's existence on Planet Bob.

Your posts only have credibility if they refer to the Rules.

Edited November 16, 2009 by James I

[Denial]

Congratulations to Athens and ODN. This is a great development.

[der_ko]

I'm just glad ODN has found a new master to pursue, now that One Vision isn't around anymore.

It's times like this I really hate you left IRON.

[Denial]

I'm just glad ODN has found a new master to pursue, now that One Vision isn't around anymore.

You previously condemned ODN for pursuing a foreign policy that forces them to choose between allies in need, yet also criticise their new pursuit of a foreign policy with a clear direction that avoids the aforementioned issue. Looks like someone has a petty, irrational grudge!

Edited November 16, 2009 by Revanche

[ChairmanHal]

Congratulations to ODN and Athens.

Your posts only have credibility if they refer to the Rules.

While I appreciate the compliment contained in your statement, I think even RyanGDI could see that, given the dumpster fire that was Athens public image this weekend, it was perhaps the worst possible time to announce an optional offense/defense pact.

Note that this in no way calls into question the judgment of ODN entering into said pact with Athens, just that if you look over the long history of ODN, there is a pattern: Judgment: B+ Timing: D-

It helps to explain why ODN has so many critics.

[Cataduanes]

It's times like this I really hate you left IRON.

You do not have to stop ''appreciating'' Heft because he is no longer in IRON

Ok, how about this: timing has never exactly been a hallmark of ODN's existence on Planet Bob.

Note that this in no way calls into question the judgment of ODN entering into said pact with Athens, just that if you look over the long history of ODN, there is a pattern: Judgment: B+ Timing: D-

It helps to explain why ODN has so many critics.

Yes that is very true, timing has not been a strong point in the past but nevertheless this treaty and the discussions/vote that led to it predated the current turn of events, and this might shock some but our FA policy and its execution is one we have taken much time and effort to cultivate and the critics be damned if they do not like it.

The optional tag ODN has earned certainly carried some weight in the past but in regards to the present day and in particular this treaty it is redundant, obviously we are responsible for our poor rep in some quarters certainly but i fail to see how the optional tag applies to this thread...unless it is the technical details of the treaty are the subject under the critics gaze. Yes we have our critics, and yes we have alot to prove yet still, no one is more aware of this fact than ourselves.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Cataduanes

[Bob Janova]

i fail to see how the optional tag applies to this thread

Cata mate, you're a good guy but don't be blind. It's an entirely optional treaty mandating nothing at all. I can't think of a more suitable thread for OpDN jokes than one in which you sign a totally optional treaty

[ChairmanHal]

Yes that is very true, timing has not been a strong point in the past but nevertheless this treaty and the discussions/vote that led to it predated the current turn of events, and this might shock some but our FA policy and its execution is one we have taken much time and effort to cultivate and the critics be damned if they do not like it.

You're missing the point. I have no doubt that this treaty took a while to put together. It's also an intriguing move in that it pulls ODN closer to C&G at least in a small way. It may even lead to a MDoAP over time. It also would have had a much better impact for both of you had this announcement been put off a week or at least until the dust settled on the whole KoN mess. As is, it can be interpreted as an ODN endorsement of Athens' actions, which is I'm fairly certain not what you wanted. Athens had more than enough back up in the current crisis to prevent them from being attacked, with or without this treaty.

[Kroknia]

Recent events aside, I'm not entirely happy with this treaty. I had high hopes ODN would be a major independent player in the world. Recently they seem to be a pro-C&G(not to say C&G is bad, but it is certainly a side) player.

[Twizzler]

You're missing the point. I have no doubt that this treaty took a while to put together. It's also an intriguing move in that it pulls ODN closer to C&G at least in a small way. It may even lead to a MDoAP over time. It also would have had a much better impact for both of you had this announcement been put off a week or at least until the dust settled on the whole KoN mess. As is, it can be interpreted as an ODN endorsement of Athens' actions, which is I'm fairly certain not what you wanted. Athens had more than enough back up in the current crisis to prevent them from being attacked, with or without this treaty.

Lets go with the situation in which we do not announce this treaty and Athens gets rolled. We still have the treaty, and I think we can all agree that the absolute worst thing ODN could do is not honor a treaty. So, ODN comes in and everyone !@#$%*es and complains that ODN used a 'secret' treaty. Yes, the timing isn't great, but I don't see how not announcing this would be any better. As been said before, haters gonna hate.

Also, in before Heft/BnT makes a witty comment about something else that could be the absolute worst thing we could do. My money's on give them a great big hug.