Joe Kremlin Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Why does it matter how NPO is run internally? If you don't like it there's plenty of other alliances out there and nobody's forcing you to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I believe there once lived a man questioning what's wrong about being a mindless drone. Perhaps therein lies key to this conundrum, or like James Dahl said, the strength of personal bonds are greater than the desire to remove oneself from an environment that doesn't seem to promote much more than comformity and subjection to the Emperor.That being said, not all are capable of fitting in in all environments. I think that referencing something James Dahl said as a support for your point runs counter to the concept of intelligent speech. I mean, the man is a walking example of laughable insincerity. I found the irony of him trying to use Francesca's thread as a pedestal/soapbox to Pacifica bash to be hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerius Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) Regardless of how much you may hate Francesca, or how happy you are to see her 'get what she deserves', I think this thread has brought to light a fairly important issue. Frankly, I am shocked at the impatience, rudeness and sheer hatred Francesca received from her own government. The idea that a government can treat a member, any member, like that without any consequences is beyond me. I just don't understand why an alliance with that sort of ethic would be attractive to anyone outside of the inner circle. Contrary to popular belief Francesca is not a raving lunatic. She may have issues and she may have less-than-tactful ways of airing them. But what right does a legitimate authority have to make such demands upon a subject? Especially when they so blatantly cross the IC/OCC line? As someone with a deep respect for the democratic process and the liberties it inspires, this disgusts me. Edit: Spelling. Edited October 29, 2009 by President Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) I'll believe Pacifica is "reformed" when their head of state and ministry is chosen by popular election instead of a backroom cluster of power players. Hold on there. I like popular elections as much as the next former long time GATOer, but they aren't necessary for a good alliance. The key is to have truly good leaders whether they are elected to the position or not. Edited October 29, 2009 by Ragashingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiasmaCircle Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Francesca, I don't suppose you care about my opinion, but I give it freely anyway. I don't know you, or particularly respect you, but as a humanitarian, I have sympathy for someone who is so hell-bent on their point of view that they will run into the same brick wall, over and over again. I beseech you, this is not an argument you can win, whether you are truly right or not, it doesn't matter. You are destroying yourself here, and I know you will state you don't care, but you do, or you wouldn't fight the battle to begin with. Save face, walk away with your head held high. And after time away, if you decide to come back, you will make your life easier then by walking away now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 MiasmaCircle, I will always hold my head high. Always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyrinx Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I don't see what NPO did wrong here to be perfectly honest. Cortath has a large ego, but I thought that as Emperor of NPO that was a given. All sovereignty (I believe) with respect to the NPO is vested in him so he can expel Francesca because it's Friday and it would be legit. Don't like that the NPO is structured that way? Then leave. Don't like having your communication with respect to OOC controlled? Then leave. You have no right to stay in an alliance. There are a few alliances actually that have strict controls on what members can say and how much interaction they can have. Aircastle is one off the top of my head that requires prior approval even before posting in the water cooler. Less restrictive would be Fark preventing people from "posting on the Open World RP without authorization". It still makes little sense to me to complain about these restrictions on communications, be they IC or OOC; that's the way some alliances are structured. You don't have to stay if you don't like it. Also, I hate spammers. It just cements in my mind that you are either a child Francesca or a moron. Or both *shrugs*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 He gave me a set of rules and then I didn't break them, so they invented other stuff to get rid of me. Man, if only someone, or someones, had warned you about the NPO. This whole thing could have been avoided. Why oh why didn't someone tell the world the the NPO is a bunch of slimy liars? Cortath sure does love playing king. Also, any particular reason the NPO still considers Ordo Verde an 'enemy' alliance? To the NPO there are two kinds of alliances. Those under their boot and enemies. They've got a lot of enemies right now... Doesnt matter if it was manual. It did a great job of DOSing our servers for an evening. Why did you think it would be a good idea to break the rules of a game we were playing so you could win it? And take our server down while you were doing it. You repeatedly broke alliance rules, you were given multiple chances to redeem yourself, you were told expcilitly the very simple rules we follow in the NPO, and you kicked for repeatedly failing.I vouched for your acceptance to the order I have no regrets about the circumstances of your expuslion. I hate to break it to you buddy, but you have no idea what a DOS attack is. Posting a bunch is not a denial of service attack. Are you really okay with expelling a member because she actually posted on your forum and your discount host couldn't handle it? Not that I care and you guys are silly for accepting her anyway, but the computer nerd in me can't handle this whole "DOS" attack business. Also bonus points for: <Cortath> It is regretful that we must do tasteful things in the service of the Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamon Valda Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 From reading the logs, all I can ascertain is that Cortath drew a hardline on your actions and you did not reform. While I understand you didn't like some of the conditions for your forced resignation (i.e.) banking), Cortath did state that he expected you to follow all orders to the letter and you agreed. Furthermore - and maybe I read this wrong - but your second log was 1 week after the first and, at that time period, you stated you were still in 'enemy channels'. Even though Cortath condoned it in his conversation (or seemed to), I get the feeling like you probably knew that being in op #OV (not to mention having ops) was not a great idea after your chat with Emperor Blackbird. As for the other reasons stated in the third log for your dismissal, I won't judge their correctness since I don't know how they got them. To be frank, I thought it was nice of them to at least offer you a quiet resignation after they disapproved of your actions - though you probably didn't take it too well, afterwards (not from the logs, but I imagine you cared). Final question, though, what are these logs supposed to prove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Man, if only someone, or someones, had warned you about the NPO. This whole thing could have been avoided. Why oh why didn't someone tell the world the the NPO is a bunch of slimy liars? I know.... I was warned a million times, and I was an idiot. Everyone makes mistakes.... some more than others, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Final question, though, what are these logs supposed to prove? They were simply to illustrate how the NPO operates these days. For some people, the way NPO treated me is fine. For others, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) I think that referencing something James Dahl said as a support for your point runs counter to the concept of intelligent speech.I mean, the man is a walking example of laughable insincerity. I found the irony of him trying to use Francesca's thread as a pedestal/soapbox to Pacifica bash to be hilarious. Maybe you should go back to NPO Chron, they need a new guy who talks like you do. Edited October 29, 2009 by James Dahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Those logs gave me a good chuckle. I still can't quite get my head wrapped around someone talking like Cortath did; to be honest, I suspected that you had edited the logs for lulzy effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essenia Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Those logs gave me a good chuckle. I still can't quite get my head wrapped around someone talking like Cortath did; to be honest, I suspected that you had edited the logs for lulzy effects. Some people like RPing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 People should listen to me, we'd avoid a lot of the more stupid BS around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 They let you in after you worked against them for a long time, again you pooped on that chance..yet you were warned instead of being kicked outright...you pooped on that chance..and they offered to let you go quietly, but no...and now you whine koz they didnt come with lollypops to bid you farewell? Awww. How alliances operate internally is their business and if people dont like it, than nobody stops them from joining a vast array of alliances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerius Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Ah yes, all hail the benign Pacific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 My God, I'm thankful I was rejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I think that referencing something James Dahl said as a support for your point runs counter to the concept of intelligent speech.I mean, the man is a walking example of laughable insincerity. I found the irony of him trying to use Francesca's thread as a pedestal/soapbox to Pacifica bash to be hilarious. I wouldn't regard the two subjects as hand, NPO and Francesca, to require intelligent speech when being talked about. The circumstances implied within the alliance in question seem a bit funny (although they are to an extent effective), and the person in the spotlight here definately is. Considering the level of seriousness the subjects at hand warrant, I should've probably added a or two. Also, good for NPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I wouldn't regard the two subjects as hand, NPO and Francesca, to require intelligent speech when being talked about. The circumstances implied within the alliance in question seem a bit funny (although they are to an extent effective), and the person in the spotlight here definately is. Considering the level of seriousness the subjects at hand warrant, I should've probably added a or two. Also, good for NPO. Ah, I apologize for not noticing the lulz. Sometimes I'm just too tired to really be on the ball. Maybe you should go back to NPO Chron, they need a new guy who talks like you do. I'm too lazy to work up the ranks over there, and frankly speaking, my talents are better used elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Cortath sure does love playing king. Also, any particular reason the NPO still considers Ordo Verde an 'enemy' alliance? I was wondering this myself....Im pretty sure that according to surrender terms, NPO is a protectorate of OV, and the coalition as a whole. Funny how Cortath mentioned semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Reading the bit about giving up all personal sovereignty for the emperor gave me chills. I always thought those who called NPO members “drones” were just using slanderous attacks but now I see some truth in those statements. Seems one must adopt the religion of state in order to be accepted. Part of their power, part of their weakness. I also see some not so surprising support for Cortath's rhetoric here. Most those supporting comments came from those in similar power structures that are lead by authoritarian cult figures. Still looking for big daddy to take care of you? The taste of power, or even the promise of it, will make those of a weak will throw away their personal rights in order to wield that power over others. All that said, if that's some one's particular piece of pie, then they know the obligations incumbent on them when they agree to join. That Francesca was too much of an individualist to fit in there was no surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Actions have consequences, who would have imagined? With rights come responsibilities, outstanding. Take another cheap shot at someone who offered you a chance, spit in their face by failing in every way to comprehend what was being asked of you, and then throw your toys out of the cot when it doesn't work out for you. I simply shake my head. Goodbye and good riddance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I really don't see how NPO is in the wrong here, you did, as Grub just said, spit in their face after admin knows how long you've been opposed to them. I'm genuinely surprised they let you in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) Reading the bit about giving up all personal sovereignty for the emperor gave me chills. I always thought those who called NPO members “drones” were just using slanderous attacks but now I see some truth in those statements. The real question though is how much do they believe their own propaganda. I always thought NPO emperors were a little more savvy. I'm surprised someone as apparently independent as Francesca would have put up with that, and that Cortath would think he could get away with it. Actions have consequences, who would have imagined? With rights come responsibilities, outstanding.Take another cheap shot at someone who offered you a chance, spit in their face by failing in every way to comprehend what was being asked of you, and then throw your toys out of the cot when it doesn't work out for you. I simply shake my head. Goodbye and good riddance. We need more people around here that will stand up for themselves and their beliefs even in the face of near total opposition, Mr. Grub. Good riddance sure, if you want a game full of cowards. Edited October 29, 2009 by Sal Paradise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts