Anti-Piracy Act of 2009

[Chalaskan]

our policy is that any nation can find a pirate. (an unaligned raiding an unaligned.) Put a request in to attack the raider. Attack the raider ,then notify the raidee of the help being offered for free. Nations need not apply to get help. Any of our nations seeks out them on their own. We help the unaligned, show a raider what it feels like, and train newer nations how to fight, all at the same time.

EDIT:

That is a sound policy. I didn't understand it was a different alliance.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Chalaskan

[Gauner]

I cant say I approve. unchecked piracy ftw. Not sure how effective it will be either considering most tech raids are a person in an alliance hitting an unaligned, and your not helping in that case, so i think that may limit the potential warm and fuzzy feeling you get from saving thousands from evil tech raids everywhere.

[nippy]

I like the idea of boosting the account balance for a raid target...gives the raider higher dividends on his war loot.

[GearHead]

DOC is always there to lend a helping hand. Keep it coming, and let us know how the victim searching goes!

o/ DOC

[The Mongol-Swedes]

Good move, DOC. It's a damn shame that most of Bob doesn't share your zeal for supporting unaligned nations hit hard by the actions of aggressive rogues.

o7 DOC

Libertad o Muerte!

[Fernando12]

USCN supports this.

We have a couple of recruits that came from us sending them messages to join us and we assisted in getting raids to stop and provide for their future security.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Fernando12

[White Chocolate]

In theory, I love the idea. Good show for wanting to help. From experience, be prepared for some...complications. The primary one I see is this:

New nation A is attacking new nation B.

New nation B accepts your offer for help after you send him/her a PM offering the help.

New nation A offers peace. - Good, nation A has learned a lesson, right?

New nation B joins you and gets the money - maybe even stays a few weeks. Working out great...

New nation B leaves DOC. Well, he/she has that right...you're sorry to see him or her go, but such is the price for keeping to your high ethical values.

Complication One:

New nation B attacks new nation A. New nation B is larger now and well, he/she figures that new nation A deserves it anyway. You may or may not agree.

Possible Complication Two:

New nation A has joined alliance (fill in the blank) and now new nation B is (as far as the rest of Planet Bob is concerned) unfairly attacking nation A of alliance (fill in the blank).

And this is assuming new nation B thought to leave your alliance first.

Unintended consequences. You can and should put some restrictions on your help from the start. However, some people will say they will follow them and then will not. But at least you tried to avoid the situation. Alliance (fill in the blank) may or may not care, however.

Edited September 14, 2009 by White Chocolate

[Starcraftmazter]

I can see what you are trying to do with this. It's an interesting concept to say the least, good luck with it.

[Wargarden]

Sponsor(s) Barron Von Hammer

The Democratic Open Community (DOC) finds the practice of attacking new, unaligned nations for the purpose of gaining Technology, Land and money (raiding), to be a particularly deplorable act.

I'm pretty sure I sort of lost it a little when my mind wrapped around the conjunction of quote one and quote two.

Barron just said raiding is wrong.... aAHAHAhahahaAHAhaahaha oh wow!

Good luck with this.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Wargarden

[Devilyn Caster]

I'm pretty sure I sort of lost it a little when my mind wrapped around the conjunction of quote one and quote two.

Barron just said raiding is wrong.... aAHAHAhahahaAHAhaahaha oh wow!

Good luck with this.

Took the words right out of my mouth/laptop/keyboard...

Raiding is fun and a great way to grow your nation (though I prefer tech dealing) and can be a useful tool and a good lesson for nations raiding/being raided at how the game works.

Plus, most raiding is harmless (i.e. Cautious attacks+peace offerings at the end of the day) and encourage said unaligned nations to seek shelter in alliances, which in turn hopefully helps them become more active members and participate on forums, etc. etc...

[ModusOperandi]

Interesting, good luck with that.

[General Scian]

At the cost of becoming another naysayer... here goes.

What would happen in this event. Allow X to be any noob nation.

X creates a nation. Is raided. Joins your alliance. You manage to get him peace. He leaves. Is attacked. Tries to rejoin... (continue if needed).

If your reply is as I expect it to be. Then essentially you are exactly the same as every alliance on this planet. Congratulations on making an announcement.

In all honesty, good luck with your alliance. But this really isn't necessary.

[Smacky]

Anti-Piracy Act huh. That's racist.

[nippy]

Anti-Piracy Act huh. That's racist.

Dude, I feel ya. It's like scurvy isn't social acceptable anymore.

[Barron von Hammer]

our policy is that any nation can find a pirate. (an unaligned raiding an unaligned.) Put a request in to attack the raider. Attack the raider ,then notify the raidee of the help being offered for free. Nations need not apply to get help. Any of our nations seeks out them on their own. We help the unaligned, show a raider what it feels like, and train newer nations how to fight, all at the same time.

One of the reasons my comrades and I in DOC support this policy.

In addition we noticed that many non-aligned nations that are raided by non-aligned raiders simply do not turn to others for help, for a variety of reasons (ignorance, fear of being indebted to the alliance that rescues them, etc). While some may think that helping out nations below 4000 NS is a useless endeavour we do not think so. While there are and will be complications (very few absolute axioms can be depended on when conflict between two parties occurs) we believe by publicly stating this we can get the word out to those non-aligned nations who may need help.

Guffey, you must come by our forums and say hello.

[Tamurin]

I would like to thank all of you for the attention to our new policy. And I'd like to assist our MoFA kamino in clarifying a few things.

1.) This law has no intention to end raiding on Planet Bob. So all of you "professional raiders" in alliances can calm down now. This law is targeted at small, new players who have no idea about anything and who are attacked by other small, new players who may just be a little stronger than their victim.

2.) We know that 99.9% of the people who are targeted by this won't read this. That's why we have people actively searching for those in need for help. We don't write laws and expect them to work on their own - we use common sense and work to achieve our goals.

3.) If there happens to be a cascade (being attacked - joining - leaving - being attacked - joining - leaving - being attacked...), we will again use our common sense and stop helping this particular nation. Again, we're not stupid and we don't write inflexible laws. We have dozens of members with good ideas, open information sharing and if people exploit our system, all of our members will know ASAP.

4.) We also know that this will lead to problems. But we like to take on this challenge and see how we can work it out. Backing down from new challenges and things that are "unspoken truths" seems like cowardice to me and to my fellow alliance mates. When we started to create a transparent direct democratic alliance, we also heard "impossible", "will lead to problems" and "can't work". Yet here we are, still breathing. Exploring new realms and trying new things is - at least for us - far more gratifying than walking the old, established paths.

Therefore, you may not agree or even think that this is foolish and stupid. That's your opinion and we accept it.

But it's not ours.

[Chalaskan]

USCN supports this.

We have a couple of recruits that came from us sending them messages to join us and we assisted in getting raids to stop and provide for their future security.

Then why not join the crusade?

At the cost of becoming another naysayer... here goes.

What would happen in this event. Allow X to be any noob nation.

X creates a nation. Is raided. Joins your alliance. You manage to get him peace. He leaves. Is attacked. Tries to rejoin... (continue if needed).

If your reply is as I expect it to be. Then essentially you are exactly the same as every alliance on this planet. Congratulations on making an announcement.

In all honesty, good luck with your alliance. But this really isn't necessary.

Agreed, but actively seeking nations with your lower tier as stated is policy with other alliance. (without the announcement) is something to be commended. I hope to see more of that, and less announcing.

[AgentofChaos]

Awww...this is cute. Foolish, more or less useless, and a waste of time and resources but cute nonetheless.

If an unaligned attacks an unaligned who frankly gives a crap? He doesn't have the resources of a larger alliance, he doesn't have buddies unless they're actual friends (almost certainly RL) which puts him on a level playing field with the opponent in terms of available options. Yes if they have buddies from RL they MAY have some buddies showing up to the party but then so could the other guy. If the opposing nation is larger then he can easily donate to catch up or suck it up a bit and hit peace mode. I can see the complaints people have against aligned raiding, even if I do not share them, but I frankly do not comprehend the problem with unaligned nations attacking other unaligned nations.

To top it off, if you will not continually support the same nation then your policy is frankly nothing more than a PR move coupled with mass recruitment and thusly utter !@#$%^&*. The entire point is to hurt raiders (even if I think you are targeting the wrong kind of raiders for it to mean anything and yes I know targeting the other type would be stupid) and to allow unaligned nations to remain unaligned when they are not being attacked. The second piece is entirely invalidated if you aren't willing to let nations return as many times as they need to and leave each time if that is what they desire (Yes, if you hadn't notice this is actual the major focus of why I do not like this policy or you).

So in short, this is frankly a waste of time, a feeble PR move on something that frankly doesn't need any more discussing after all the time people spent arguing over it to absolutely no resolution, and a frankly weak attempt at hidden recruitment.

[Banned]

I'm pretty sure all alliances have an unwritten policy that allows for people who are being raided to apply to their alliance and thus get the raids to stop.

Though here you're just explicitly saying they are free to leave afterwards.

I can say for sure from the alliances that I've been in, that there are alliances out there that will not accept members involved in any types of wars. Two of these alliances I know for sure are Sovereign League of Armed Powers and Sparta.

[iowa20625]

Agent,

Thanks for not reading the three topics above. They pretty much state on how each of your *problematic* ideals of this action will be taken care of.

Is this one of the recruiting tactics? Yes, def. to help a brand new player get on their feet and see why there are so many players play. Yeah def a good choice.

Is this against all tech raiding? Nope, no nation/alliance/soul can stop that. Is this a message to those that may be involved? Heck yes.

Are members that have wars are able to join us? Usually no, we resolve those issues before they join. So this action shouldnt be looked like an action that is performed every day.

There is a lot of people that are afraid of new ideals, as DOC has proved one ideal that no other alliance has been wanting to see, Democracy.

I think there will be a lot of interesting moments and totally support this. NOW COOKIES!!(no kidding)

Edited September 17, 2009 by iowa20625

[Mussolandia]

Oh hi Walford, glad to have you back. Not.

You should learn from history. Last time someone tried this it didn't go so well. And they were more powerful and better connected than you are.

Some things never change.

[Barron von Hammer]

So in short, this is frankly a waste of time, a feeble PR move on something that frankly doesn't need any more discussing after all the time people spent arguing over it to absolutely no resolution, and a frankly weak attempt at hidden recruitment.

We at DOC do not care if you like it or not (as is apparent in your long post in which you spend several paragraphs talking about how it should not be discussed). It is our policy.

Neither does the GOON "policy" concern us (other than the fact that it has pleasantly brought even more attention to our resolution).

[King Srqt]

Oh hi Walford, glad to have you back. Not.

You should learn from history. Last time someone tried this it didn't go so well. And they were more powerful and better connected than you are.

Some things never change.

This isn't even close to CNARF since DOC is only protecting against raids from other unaligned nations I do not see how it will really blow up on them.

With that said I do not really see the need to protect unaligned nations from other unaligned nations. It wouldn't really be bullying since usually unaligned nations would not be able to coordinate a force strong enough to overwhelm anyone and I do not see anything wrong with a nice even fight from time to time.

[Heft]

Small and/or new, unaligned nations on planet bob who are being attacked by other small and/or new nations who are unaligned on planet Bob are eligible for protection from the DOC under this bill.

Man, I was disappointed. I was expecting you to take a stand, given the title and the nature of the document and all. This is nothing, though.

It's really not the thought that counts.

[AgentofChaos]

Agent,

Thanks for not reading the three topics above. They pretty much state on how each of your *problematic* ideals of this action will be taken care of.

Is this one of the recruiting tactics? Yes, def. to help a brand new player get on their feet and see why there are so many players play. Yeah def a good choice.

Is this against all tech raiding? Nope, no nation/alliance/soul can stop that. Is this a message to those that may be involved? Heck yes.

Are members that have wars are able to join us? Usually no, we resolve those issues before they join. So this action shouldnt be looked like an action that is performed every day.

There is a lot of people that are afraid of new ideals, as DOC has proved one ideal that no other alliance has been wanting to see, Democracy.

I think there will be a lot of interesting moments and totally support this. NOW COOKIES!!(no kidding)

Actually it was in response to your post. I said it was a blatant and weak PR/recruitment move entirely because of that explanation. If you are not willing to allow the unaligned to come and go as needs allow as many times as they need (I believe the term used was "cascade" for some reason) then this is quite frankly a waste of time in any sort of righteous sense (which I wouldn't bring up if you guys didn't keep acting like that's what it was).