Corinan Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 “The New Sith Order shall retain the option, though not the obligation, to declare war in the defense of any alliance that finds itself the victim of foreign aggression.”“The New Sith Order shall retain the option, though not the obligation, to share intelligence critical to the security of another alliance with it.” All I’m saying is that while this is very different from the version used by the NPO, these first two articles can easily be abused to gain by NSO even if they are based upon apparently chivalrous values, the fact that this can be used in defence of any alliance means they may also focus almost entirely upon defending alliances within one trade sphere or specific group. I’m not saying for one second that the NSO will abuse this act but… all I’m saying is that people should watch exactly how this new Moldavi Doctrine is used in the future. Oh ok. Well you need not worry. People tend to watch everything we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Beck Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 We will never get rid of this doctrine xD no matter what is done, it just reforms and reappears. Hopefully this time it will not be used to destroy smaller alliances but to enable NSO to do what is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 All I’m saying is that while this is very different from the version used by the NPO, these first two articles can easily be abused to gain by NSO even if they are based upon apparently chivalrous values, the fact that this can be used in defence of any alliance means they may also focus almost entirely upon defending alliances within one trade sphere or specific group. You are missing the point – NSO (or anyone else) could do the things you worry about with or without a doctrine like this. All this is is NSO pointing out that they have the option to do anything that they haven't explicitly promised not to do – just like any other alliance. They aren't suddenly going to start doing things differently, because all this is is an expression of the rights they already have. It shouldn't be necessary, but the treaty-bound mentality of CN (which has got into your head ) means that people don't see that they can assist people without treaties, or share information without treaties. You can, and always have been able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torak Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 We will never get rid of this doctrine xD no matter what is done, it just reforms and reappears. Hopefully this time it will not be used to destroy smaller alliances but to enable NSO and other alliances to do what is right. Fix that for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Fix that for you I'm glad you've made this doctrine, now I can do the right thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torak Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 I'm glad you've made this doctrine, now I can do the right thing! NSO Always glad to be of help Since March 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 It shouldn't be necessary, but the treaty-bound mentality of CN (which has got into your head ) means that people don't see that they can assist people without treaties, or share information without treaties. You can, and always have been able to. Just think of the New Sith Order as a beacon of light in a dark and ignorant world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krunk the Great Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Sometimes you just need to affirm to the world that "Yes, we CAN do that" because they may not see it that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Beck Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Fix that for you Splendid. However as this doctrine basically states just what any sovereign alliance already can do, I think of it as a way for Ivan to claim back his name from another now dead doctrine. So really, other alliances already have this and thus the fix is unnecessary although I appreciate it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffron X Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 “The New Sith Order shall retain the option, though not the obligation, to declare war in the defense of any alliance that finds itself the victim of foreign aggression.”“The New Sith Order shall retain the option, though not the obligation, to share intelligence critical to the security of another alliance with it.” All I’m saying is that while this is very different from the version used by the NPO, these first two articles can easily be abused to gain by NSO even if they are based upon apparently chivalrous values, the fact that this can be used in defence of any alliance means they may also focus almost entirely upon defending alliances within one trade sphere or specific group. I’m not saying for one second that the NSO will abuse this act but… all I’m saying is that people should watch exactly how this new Moldavi Doctrine is used in the future. Hey look, it's exactly what I said 25 pages ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Splendid.However as this doctrine basically states just what any sovereign alliance already can do, I think of it as a way for Ivan to claim back his name from another now dead doctrine. So really, other alliances already have this and thus the fix is unnecessary although I appreciate it It's necessary in that many alliances do not realize what they can and cannot do anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rune Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 It's necessary in that many alliances do not realize what they can and cannot do anymore. The only thing preventing alliances doing what they perceive as being right, is the !@#$ storm they'd encounter on these forums. (That and possibly having said !@#$ kicked out of them!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymenbreach Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Oh ok. Well you need not worry. People tend to watch everything we do. Yeah. Damn my eyes for noticing the firework dsplay you put on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Moon Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 I get back in touch with PB after a few days, read the OP - which seems to make perfect sense - and then see that there's 31 pages of discussion over it. It just says they're going to do what they think is just and not worry about e-lawyering. It's also basically a declaration of anti-neturality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 It's also basically a declaration of anti-neturality. Heh, that's one way to put it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 The only thing preventing alliances doing what they perceive as being right, is the !@#$ storm they'd encounter on these forums. (That and possibly having said !@#$ kicked out of them!) Well if they're too afraid of some OWF !@#$%*ing and moaning to do what's right then that's not anybody else's problem but their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeta Defender Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Just think of the New Sith Order as a beacon of light in a dark and ignorant world. Isn't that counter to the Sith bringing the dark to the light. I need to go refresh myself of Jedi/Sith mythology. Back to the topic of the new Moldavi Doctrine, from my understanding of the document, it basically is an MDAP with every alliance on Planet Bob. You claim to have the write to intervene in any situation regardless of any other treaty and defend the "victims" as you claim from aggression or based in article 5 aggression as well...Articles 1 and 2... Articles 3 is Intelligence which most alliances do share, trade depending on the situation. Article 5 is the most confusing as it commands when article 1 and 2 can be used... The New Sith Order recognizes the need for such acts to be just and therefore will only invoke the Doctrine if the determined point of interjection has been attacked unjustly or the likewise determined point of support has established a just casus belli. Article 5 basically allows NSO to bandwagon into any conflict regardless of any other treaties or situation for the sole reason for NSO to fight someone else. Personally I find this a low point due to you are just piggybacking depending on what mood fits your fansy. While some alliances do that and claim it is something else, ie, the whole PC, TPF issue at least you are direct with stating exactly what you want so you do have junk and I give you credit for that. My question lies in if you use this doctrine and it pulls you into a conflict as this doctrine superceeds all others, then via your MDP with Frostbite, they all would get pulled in as well. So if I understand this you are basically causing a MDP Web chain reaction whenever you decide to bandwagon into a conflict without any current treaty ties. I think the Order the Sith want will be up a Chaos, and follow a path of Sith history which may end in the same results as the mythology reads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoiL Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 My question lies in if you use this doctrine and it pulls you into a conflict as this doctrine superceeds all others, then via your MDP with Frostbite, they all would get pulled in as well. So if I understand this you are basically causing a MDP Web chain reaction whenever you decide to bandwagon into a conflict without any current treaty ties. I think the Order the Sith want will be up a Chaos, and follow a path of Sith history which may end in the same results as the mythology reads. We plan on declaring war on the world one day as a surprise for all of our allies. Quite sure we would consult with our allies, mmm yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBRaiders Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 After reading a couple pages of replies just wanted to post that I like it. To me, it's NSO letting everyone know they will enter any war they believe is in their best interest to do so. You'd think every alliance would do the same, but history has shown different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 I just got back from a vacation and discovered this doctrine. I am not planning to read countless pages doubtlessly filled with idiocy, however I do feel the need to state my support for the Doctrine. Much more sensible than the original bearing the name, and one in which I feel very suited to the NSO. Comrade Random approves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivellios Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Thanks Random, we appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiCkO Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 My question lies in if you use this doctrine and it pulls you into a conflict as this doctrine superceeds all others, then via your MDP with Frostbite, they all would get pulled in as well. So if I understand this you are basically causing a MDP Web chain reaction whenever you decide to bandwagon into a conflict without any current treaty ties. I think the Order the Sith want will be up a Chaos, and follow a path of Sith history which may end in the same results as the mythology reads. an MDP wouldnt bring them into a agressive war by NSO which if they joined it would be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3000 Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 very interesting doctrine. I like this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Thanks Random, we appreciate it. Random's approval means ur doin it rong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 "The New Sith Order shall retain the option, though not the obligation, to declare war in the defense of any alliance that finds itself the victim of foreign aggression.""The New Sith Order shall retain the option, though not the obligation, to share intelligence critical to the security of another alliance with it." All I'm saying is that while this is very different from the version used by the NPO, these first two articles can easily be abused to gain by NSO even if they are based upon apparently chivalrous values, the fact that this can be used in defence of any alliance means they may also focus almost entirely upon defending alliances within one trade sphere or specific group. I'm not saying for one second that the NSO will abuse this act but… all I'm saying is that people should watch exactly how this new Moldavi Doctrine is used in the future. As opposed to what a MADP or MDoAP bloc can do? Can't such blocs be abused? Mutual aggression on anyone they like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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