Azaghul Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) There comes a time when someone must say that enough is enough, when it is only reasonable to concede so much. Those of us at war with The Phoenix Federation have been in discussions with TPF for several days now to gain peace. NPO has surrendered and all involved and nearly all uninvolved desire to see peace. The terms we have offered do not include viceroys, government changes, disbandment, or wonder decommissioning. They do not restrict which TPF nations can pay reps. The reps themselves are moderate, 20,000 tech to PC, 180 mill to Federation of Buccaneers, 120 mill to Avalanche. And 9,000 tech to Mushroom Kingdom taking back what TPF took from C&G in the noCB war. In total 29,000 tech and 300 million among alliances that lost millions of nation strength in this struggle. We have allowed TPF unlimited outside aid to rebuild. We have offered to combine reps into tech deals (3mill/150 with 50 counting towards reps) to make them easily payable. TPF, because of its own insistence on continuing to fight, may have lost most of its infrastructure, but it still has over 80,000 tech and contains dozens of nations with full economic improvements and many wonders. With outside aid and tech deals, they could rebuild and pay the terms at a good pace. How does Mhawk respond? By insulting those who offer the terms and refusing them. We should not forget what part the Phoenix Federation has done under the command of Mhawk. They held a MADP with New Pacific Order, signaling full trust in them, and fully supported and did all they could to keep in power the New Pacific Order. This was while NPO was holding alliances who fought defensive wars under indefinite and all inclusive viceroys and terms that required the decommissioning of wonders. Actions that he did not object to, but actively supported through his continued strong support of NPO. In the talks leading up to the Karma war, Mhawk played the part of chief bully against Ordo Verde for Hegemony, attempting to extort a confession through intimidation without evidence. When the war broke out, TPF fully supported NPO in its aggression in compliance with the MADP, and joined the war. It continued to keep fighting long past the point where it had fulfilled its obligations and been able to achieve an honorable peace, voluntarily causing unnecessary damage to itself and those it is at war with. This is not an alliance that deserves white peace or an extremely easy peace. We have offered them terms far easier than we could have given them, than TPF have given in the past, that their side would have given had they won, or that they really deserve for their role in this war. Peace could be declared today if they accepted them, they have chosen continued war over peace, so the war continues. We desire peace, and the reasonable terms we have offered remain open whenever TPF can bring themselves to accept them. For reference, here are the offered terms in their entirety: Article I ~ SurrenderTPF hereby formerly surrenders and admits defeat to Karma, and specifically to Poison Clan, Mushroom Kingdom, Federation of Buccaneers, Nueva Vida, Christian Coalition of Countries, Avalanche, and the Greenland Republic. Article II ~ ZI lists and wars TPF formally releases all nations from any ZI, PZI, or EZI lists and declares a white peace in all wars against any nation, alliance affiliation, or alliance that is not the undersigned. No offensive war or spy attack may be launched against any nation except ghosts and rogues against TPF for the duration of these terms, under the provisions outlined in Article IV. Article III ~ Reparations TPF agrees to pay the following in reparations: 20,000 tech to Poison Clan 180 million to Federation of Buccaneers 9,000 tech to Mushroom Kingdom 120 million to Avalanche After the first 15 days, at least 60 million and 6000 tech must be paid every month. Reparations payments must come from TPF nations. All other outside aid is allowed, however tech sellers must be offered to the signatory alliances before any outside alliances. Article IV ~ Military TPF nations must decomission all nuclear weapons, navies, barracks, guerrilla camps, naval improvements, satellites and missile defenses. Nations with the SDI Wonder are allowed to maintain the 3 satellites and missile defenses required for the Wonder. In the instance of a rogue attack, or to drive a ghost from the TPF AA, up to three TPF nations may build all military improvements, navies, and up to five nuclear missiles each in order to attack that rogue or ghost. Only one of those nations can be a holder of a Weapons Research Center wonder. Any nation that is attacked by a rogue may build all military improvements, navies, and up to 5 five nuclear missiles as well for the duration of that war. No Manhattan Projects may be purchased for the duration of these terms. Article V ~ POWs No nation who surrendered to Karma may return to TPF for the duration of these terms. Article VI ~ Treaties TPF hereby suspends all treaties with a military clause for the duration of these terms. TPF may not sign any new treaties with a military clause without the approval of the undersigned as long as these terms are in effect. Article VII ~ Length These terms will be in effect for a minimum period of 90 days, and will persist beyond that point until all reparation payments are completed. Violations will be dealt with on an individual basis. Any individual nations repeatedly violating the terms will be subject to expulsion from TPF and ZI. Should a pattern of violations occur and TPF is uncooperative in resolving them, it may result in a resumption of hostilities against TPF. The undersigned will maintain channels of communication with TPF throughout the period of this surrender to communicate any and all violations. Edit: piece =/= peace Edited July 25, 2009 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drai Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I hope this won't last an eternity like we've seen in other situations. These terms are far more lenient than many of the non-white peace surrenders we've seen over the past few months and they're probably not even close to what TPF deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaarlaamp Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 The terms seem reasonable. Very strange that they reject them. I'm sure they want peace too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 This fight no longer needs to continue. Accept peace and get it over with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushi Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 mhawk the balls in your court now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Those terms are considerably lighter than I was expecting. Good luck with your decision TPF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity111 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) /insert rant about terms not being harsh enough here Edited July 25, 2009 by Velocity111 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Cato Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 These terms are reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 It's wonderful to have some idea of what is going on in this instance. I'd like to hear from mhawk why exactly these terms are unacceptable. Has he stated why they have been rejected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyria Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Standing by your allies until they receive fair terms is one thing. Ensuring your continued suffering by turning down fair terms yourself is another. Sometimes I wonder, mhawk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 If these are the terms in their entirety, I can not fathom why they would not be accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylar Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Didn't you guys rag on NPO for doing this? and TPF=The Resistance Keep fighting for white peace TPF B) Edited July 25, 2009 by Sylar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrrie Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I'm assuming it's the Poison Clan parts he finds distasteful? In any case, these terms are far lighter than I would have expected for TPF. I'm amazed the rest of the government hasn't pressured him to accept them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Let's get this over with guys and put this behind us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) We've been battered to a fraction of our NS... These terms are far from impossible, but just because they could be worse doesn't mean they're fair. Oh, and if you find "fark off" to be a gross insult, well... -Bama Edited July 25, 2009 by BamaBuc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookavich Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 How, exactly, did Mhawk insult the alliances offering terms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyria Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 If these are the terms in their entirety, I can not fathom why they would not be accepted. They are. MK is fully aware that, pardon my bluntness, there is very little to extract of TPF. We have tried our best to balance the need for punishment with the fact that TPF is in a shattered state. and TPF=The Resistance Keep fighting for white peace TPF B) TPF doesn't have a nation that will bother the average MKer. We're on our way to rebuild, I'm not sure why TPF doesn't want to be on that path either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 How, exactly, did Mhawk insult the alliances offering terms? He said "fark off." Certain parties were not amused. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 We've been battered to a fraction of our NS... These terms are far from impossible, but just because they could be worse doesn't mean they're fair.Oh, and if you find "fark off" to be a gross insult, well... -Bama Considering what Pacifica got, you guys should be damn grateful. Really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I saw those peace terms a few days ago from a super secret, secret channel than whoever registered it forgot to +s, and even I thought the terms were pretty good considering. I sent the link to someone else (won't name names, not that it's important) and though they thought they were a tad harsh (if memory serves correct) they thought, in the end, if I may ghetto it up a bit, them !@#$s was pretty !@#$@#$ good. So.. what's the deal, TPF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcades057 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I find myself liking you more every day, MHawk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Xander the Only Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Excellent. Let the festivities continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 We've been battered to a fraction of our NS... These terms are far from impossible, but just because they could be worse doesn't mean they're fair. I think what most people are saying is that they are fair. Though if you believe these terms to be unfair (which is what I think you're saying), then how do you feel about the surrender terms TPF has imposed in the past? Has TPF been fair in their victories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrrie Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Oh, and if you find "fark off" to be a gross insult, well... No, I'd go with "grossly unnecessary" when you're on the losing side and trying to get fairer terms. Mouthing off to the people determining those terms won't help you. It's like putting on a dress and go-go dancing in diplomatic talks (did I get the VL reference right?) Edited July 25, 2009 by ayrrie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 He said "fark off." Certain parties were not amused.-Bama Ya, cause we don't all know what "fark off" means. Seriously, that's like people who use a '!' instead of an 'i' to "hide" the fact that they're swearing as if switching a letter or 2 suddenly makes it all better. If you tell the guy offering peace terms to $%&@ off, life gets harder. That's all there is to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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