iMatt Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 What's the cost for upgrading your % citizens if you grow and want to store more citizens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 What's the cost for upgrading your % citizens if you grow and want to store more citizens? The cost of that will match the cost of re-rolling your mine resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oinkoink12 Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 When will this be implemented? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 I'm not sure if that one is finalised as yet. I think the tentative cost was NS * 100 but don't quote me on that.I believe you may get a 'free move' if you roll for a new resource as well, eg, the move will cost NS * 10, then you will have an option to re-roll, for * 10 of the move cost (essentially NS * 100). but again, don't quote me on that just yet. The cost to relocate a facility is NS*10. The cost to upgrade (eg. mine for a new resource or upgrade the citizen number for your cololy) is (NS * 10) * 10. You'll have to move your facility in order to upgrade, as that is part of the process, but you only have to move it a very short distance (just a smidgen) in case the facility is already at the hotspot. Also, if your mining facility is mining a particular resource and you choose to upgrade and mine for a different resource you will always get a new resource so instead of a 1 in 4 or 25% chance of getting the resource that you desire it will be a 1 in 3 or 33% chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternos Astramora Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Will hotspot locations be the same for all people? Is there limited space? If there is limited space, is there a way to fight (or otherwise take from) someone for that space? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jtkode Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 ---I hate moon/mars wonders Anyway, how will we be able to upgrade these wonders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Will hotspot locations be the same for all people? Is there limited space? If there is limited space, is there a way to fight (or otherwise take from) someone for that space? At this stage there is one hotspot for everyone, and unlimited space on the hotspot. ---I hate moon/mars wonders Anyway, how will we be able to upgrade these wonders? When you move the base, you will be given the option to 'upgrade' which for the Colony means store a new percentage based on your current citizen number, and for Mine means to dig for a new resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternos Astramora Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 At this stage there is one hotspot for everyone, and unlimited space on the hotspot. There is only one hotspot each cycle? Will the total efficiency over the entire planet/moon average out to be 75%, or will most of it be closer to 50% or 100%? In other words, how big are these hotspots? I like how the hotspot(s?) are the same for everyone. It allows for some alliance coordination. I would still like some more map dynamics with regards to warfare, either on Earth or the Moon/Mars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Yep, one hotspot, which moves every full moon, so once a month. The actual date of the hotspot move, and the size of the hotspot, not even I know... not sure if admin will reveal those ones or whether it will be left it for the players to discover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodivine Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) We have decided to equate Tech and Infra in the formula for the cost of the wonders.For example, now a Nation with: 1. 10,000infra, 0 tech (30,000NS) 2. 5,000infra, 5000 tech (40,000NS) 3. 0 infra, 10,000tech (50,000NS) Will all pay the same price for the new wonders. This is done by the purchase cost formula now being: Base cost + (X * NS - (2 * Amount of Tech)) We have chosen not to make it solely based on Infra because we believe other things (Land/Military) should be taken into account as well. I understand some of you will still not be happy with this, but please take it as us meeting you half way. The Price of the Bases has been reduced considerably, and the Colony percentages have been tweaked, as have some of the Bonus resources (their ROI was far too great over the time frame). I don't see how people will end up paying the same price for the wonders across the board as the examples below show. It seems that the smaller the nation then the cheaper it's going to be for them to purchase it. Especially with a larger number of former large nations are now in the smaller NS range with larger incomes and stored cash. They will easily be able to purchase these wonders at a lower cost than those still in the upper ranges of NS. nation 1: 65k NS and 5k tech nation 2: 100k NS and 8k tech nation 3: 18k NS and 500 tech Mars Base - $100,000,000 + (6,000 * (Nation Strength - Technology Purchased * 2))) Moon Base - $50,000,000 + (3,000 * (Nation Strength - Technology Purchased * 2))) Nation 1: Mars cost: 100,000,000 + (6,000 * (65,000 - (5000 *2))) 100,000,000 + (6000 * 55,000) 100,000,000 + 330,000,000 = 430 mil Moon cost: 50,000,000 + (3000 * (65,000 - (5000 *2))) 50,000,000 + (3000 * 55,000) 50,000,000 + 165,000,000 = 215 mil Nation 2: Mars cost: 100,000,000 + (6,000 * (100,000 - (8000 *2))) 100,000,000 + (6000 * 84,000) 100,000,000 + 504,000,000 = 604 mil Moon cost: 50,000,000 + (3000 * (100,000 - (8000 *2))) 50,000,000 + (3000 * 84,000) 50,000,000 + 252,000,000 = 302 mil Nation 3: Mars cost: 100,000,000 + (6,000 * (18,000 - (500 *2))) 100,000,000 + (6000 * 17,000) 100,000,000 + 102,000,000 = 202 mil Moon cost: 50,000,000 + (3000 * (18,000 - (500 *2))) 50,000,000 + (3000 * 17,000) 50,000,000 + 51,000,000 = 101 mil Edited July 24, 2009 by Myworld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 I don't see how people will end up paying the same price for the wonders across the board as the examples below show. It seems that the smaller the nation then the cheaper it's going to be for them to purchase it. Especially with a larger number of former large nations are now in the smaller NS range with larger incomes and stored cash. They will easily be able to purchase these wonders at a lower cost than those still in the upper ranges of NS. It is cheaper for smaller nations in raw dollars, but not cheaper when measured against the amount of money they make. Smaller nations will also benefit less from most aspects of the wondes (infra bill savings, happiness, colony size and bonus resources) than those who are larger and pay more. If there are nations with low NS and lots of money; #1, they have probably paid a costly price to be in that position, and would likely have prefered still be larger and pay a bit extra for the wonders, rather than be smaller and have a lower price and #2, As mentioned above, they still they won't get as much benefit over the life of the wonders as larger nations who pay more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodivine Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) It is cheaper for smaller nations in raw dollars, but not cheaper when measured against the amount of money they make. Smaller nations will also benefit less from most aspects of the wondes (infra bill savings, happiness, colony size and bonus resources) than those who are larger and pay more.If there are nations with low NS and lots of money; #1, they have probably paid a costly price to be in that position, and would likely have prefered still be larger and pay a bit extra for the wonders, rather than be smaller and have a lower price and #2, As mentioned above, they still they won't get as much benefit over the life of the wonders as larger nations who pay more. Why wouldn't they get the benefit from them? Yes when you factor in the pop differences then the return is going to be more for a larger nation than a smaller one, but what is preventing nations that use to be big that are now small with a large cash reserve from purchasing this and then they have an more increased income to help them rebuild even faster compared to the normal small nation that can't afford it without help or long term savings of cash. Also you're not taking into account that many of these larger nations that are now in the lower ranks have large amount of wonders to subsidize a larger increased revenue compared to the normal small nation. I don't see why there should be an advantage given to a small nation with larger incomes at the lower ranges. Heck I almost wish I had been put back down to below 20k so I can purchase a wonder for 100 to 200 mil vs having to pay out the extensive amount because of mine or any other large nations high NS. Edited July 24, 2009 by Myworld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Heck I almost wish I had been put back down to below 20k so I can purchase a wonder for 100 to 200 mil vs having to pay out the extensive amount because of mine or any other large nations high NS. Are you sure about that? Assuming you lost 2/3rds of everything evenly, and went back to 22,128NS with 2,999.99infra and 1,718.53tech... You would save $132.7million on the purchase of your Moon Base over what you ould pay now. However, were you to then build yourself back up from 22,128NS to your current level, with the new 4% purchase saving in addition to the rest of your infra purchase savings you have, I am getting a cost for you of around $691million. Then, you'd have to buy back your 3,437 technology, which at the going rate of 3million for 100, would cost another $103million to import, and take nearly 6months to do so. Add in your costs to repurchase land and I don't think this is going to outweigh the $132million saving you made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kippa Tarxien Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Regarding the chase of the hotspot: can we see the position of the other nations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Regarding the chase of the hotspot: can we see the position of the other nations? At this stage you can, but you can't see the efficiency level other nations wonders are running at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryptamine Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 At this stage you can, but you can't see the efficiency level other nations wonders are running at. Hmm... Somehow I get the feeling that this part of the game is going to quickly become "find where the Citadel nations are clustered, and park there." Maybe this should be altered accordingly to create a real necessity for communication and maybe open the doors for a new kind of espionage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Hmm... Somehow I get the feeling that this part of the game is going to quickly become "find where the Citadel nations are clustered, and park there." Maybe this should be altered accordingly to create a real necessity for communication and maybe open the doors for a new kind of espionage? Hence 'At this stage'... Right now we are just going to see how it all goes once implemented... but we have gone over some possibilities for down the track to try and avoid that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Hence 'At this stage'... Right now we are just going to see how it all goes once implemented... but we have gone over some possibilities for down the track to try and avoid that. Make the relocation process not a trivial thing and it will become much most difficult to just "go park there." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamlin Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Why wouldn't they get the benefit from them? Yes when you factor in the pop differences then the return is going to be more for a larger nation than a smaller one, but what is preventing nations that use to be big that are now small with a large cash reserve from purchasing this and then they have an more increased income to help them rebuild even faster compared to the normal small nation that can't afford it without help or long term savings of cash. Also you're not taking into account that many of these larger nations that are now in the lower ranks have large amount of wonders to subsidize a larger increased revenue compared to the normal small nation.I don't see why there should be an advantage given to a small nation with larger incomes at the lower ranges. Heck I almost wish I had been put back down to below 20k so I can purchase a wonder for 100 to 200 mil vs having to pay out the extensive amount because of mine or any other large nations high NS. If you truly think it's better to have a low NS then you can easily delete a bunch of infra/land. Tech is a little more awkward, but sending out 300 every 10 days should get you down pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ertyy Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Sorry if this was already asked, but when do the colonies take the percentage of the population? Is it before population modifiers or after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternos Astramora Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Shouldn't factors like land and military be taken out of the costs? Maybe not land, but at least military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMatt Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 It would make it better if you couldn't see other nations, or maybe you could just see those in your alliance? To make it harder to find the hotspot. Maybe there should be several hotspots so that 3 people couldn't find out where the hotspot is through triangulation? I'm also interested as to the reasoning behind the price increase due to land and military, as AA has said above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomzoomzoom Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Better decomm all those planes, CMs, and soldiers when buying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Mentioned a few times, but military wonders on mars/the moon at some point are probable. So with good chance military could be enhanced, and with a desire to keep formulas consistent (apart from the slight extra cost of the base) military strength is included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamlin Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Here's a list of what each NS effector costs you when purchasing these wonders, numbers listed below are for Mars wonders, Lunar are exactly half the cost Item----------------Base----------Extra Mile of Land--------9,000---------7,500 Tank - Deployed-----900-----------750 Tank - Defending----1,200---------1,000 Cruise Missile------60,000--------50,000 Nuke (1st)----------60,000--------50,000 Nukes (20)----------24,000,000----20,000,000 Technology----------18,000--------15,000 Infrastructure------18,000--------15,000 Soldier-------------120-----------100 Aircraft (Level 9)--270,000-------225,000 Navy (Corvette)-----60,000--------50,000 Navy (Landing Ship)-180,000-------150,000 Navy (Battleship)---300,000-------250,000 Navy (Cruiser)------360,000-------300,000 Navy (Frigate)------480,000-------400,000 Navy (Destroyer)----660,000-------550,000 Navy (Submarine)----720,000-------600,000 Navy (Carrier)------900,000-------750,000 So yea...it's crazy expensive to actually have a military and buy these. I'll do an average 15k infra nation and calculate only the average military costs. 15k infra means roughly 150k citizens. Actual number depends on resource set. Assume 50% soldiers that's 75,000. We'll assume they don't keep tanks but we'll assume a full airforce (lets just go with basic basic airforce of 50), navy and nukes. Full navy strength at 15k infra is 539. Full Airforce assumes 8 Aircraft carriers (25 extra aircraft), Construction and a foreign air base (50+10+20+25) = 105 75,000 soldiers * $120 increase per = $9,000,000 Full Airforce * $270,000 per plane = $28,350,000 Full Navy * $60,000 per point = $32,340,000 Nukes = $24,000,000 Total for military = $93,690,000 Seems a tad excessive as this is more than all but 5 other wonders. And from an RP standpoint it doesn't make sense as a big military shouldn't make it more expensive to go to space. Edit: In case you couldn't guess...yes I am very bored. Edited July 25, 2009 by hamlin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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