Drai Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Will it be worth paying such a massive fee to purchase the wonders? The WRC wonder already takes most nations a month to save up for.I don't think it'd be fun saving for 2-3 months for one wonder. Edit: Did that right in between my 2 calculus midterms, horrid math, ignore. Edited July 23, 2009 by Drai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 At 8500 infra you should net at least $3 million per day, meaning the WRC will take only 2 weeks to save up for. there is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start Drai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oktavia Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 At 8500 infra you should net at least $3 million per day, meaning the WRC will take only 2 weeks to save up for.And I wouldn't mind saving 2-3 months saving for a wonder if it was going to have some form of income gain. However these new wonders don't exactly do that. $150m / $3m = 50 days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaciaut Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 You can relocate your base every 7 days if you choose.We didn't allow users to just pick because we decided luck should play a part here, you have the option to pay for your own luck if you need to. What we want is decision making, what we have here is a decision whether to stick with an 'ok' Martian resource, or to spend money to try and re-roll for a better one, while at the same time risking a step backwards. If you could pick, theres only one decision, and then nothing afterward. I just hope the same resource can't be randomly given again during a one month timeframe then; at this point the only thing that would make mars stuff more attractive (for me at least) would be the trade bonus and i can already see myself getting magnesium 4 times in a row instead of potassium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternos Astramora Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 It gives you 6% extra citizens, stored on the moon colony, which will never be lost no matter what happens to your nation (unless your moon colony is destroyed or expires).[I'm still confused. Okay, you have 100,000 citizens. You store 6%. Do you now have 6,000 citizens on the Moon and 94,000 in your nation? Does the total matter for soldier percentages and taxes? Just the ones still in your nation? Assuming you still have the same 100,000 citizens when your colony expires, would your citizens come home? If they don't, would you have less population with the same infra/population boosters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Are all of the bonus resources going to have a 25% chance of being mined? You'll have 25% chance of grabbing each at the start. If you choose to dig for a new resource, you wil then have 33% chance at getting each of the other 3. I just hope the same resource can't be randomly given again during a one month timeframe then; at this point the only thing that would make mars stuff more attractive (for me at least) would be the trade bonus and i can already see myself getting magnesium 4 times in a row instead of potassium. As above, it will be random, the only restriction being you won't be able to get the same resource twice. So, you may well get Magnesium, then Sodium, then Magnesium, then Sodium etc... but not possible to get Magnesium, Magnesium, Magnesium. [I'm still confused. Okay, you have 100,000 citizens. You store 6%. Do you now have 6,000 citizens on the Moon and 94,000 in your nation? Does the total matter for soldier percentages and taxes? Just the ones still in your nation? Assuming you still have the same 100,000 citizens when your colony expires, would your citizens come home? If they don't, would you have less population with the same infra/population boosters? It gives you 6% extra, which are then stored. so 100,000 citizens means you keep 100,000 on your nation, and send 6,000 new citizens to the moon to your colony, for a total population to collect off of 106,000 (assuming max colony efficiency). Soldier percentages, bad earth environment etc won't affect the number in the colony, except for the fact that you'd want to ensure you had your max population possible on your nation before creating your colony, as this would mean 6% of your citizens is a bigger number, as once you create the colony that number is static and only changes when you upgrade it etc. The proximity to the hotspot, while not changing the number of citizens stored, does affect how many you can collect from... In this example, 100% hotspot = collect from 6000 citizens, 50% hotspot = collect from 3000 citizens... (Your colony citizens live more happily and healthily when their colony is running at optimum efficiency, the lower the effieicncy of the colony, the more citizens are incapacitated and unable to pay you any taxes). As you grow to say 101,000 citizens, your colony number remains the same (unless you upgrade it), so now you have 107,000 total. (if you upgraded the colony to 6% of your 101,000, your colony would now have 6,060 for 107,060 total). When your colony expires, your population goes back to whatever the number on your standard nation is (100,000/101,000 etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeldor Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) What's the point behind them expiring? Why would a base with working citizens just disappear? Edited July 22, 2009 by steeldor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikachurin Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 What's the point behind them expiring? Why would a base with working citizens just disappear? In RL, lunar and Martian bases will probably be abandoned after a few decades since most of the hardware will be damaged or worn out. I think that's the reason why they eventually expire. Anyways, if I purchase a lunar base wonder, is there a chance that the mission will fail and I have to wait another thirty days to purchase this wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Roleplay reason; The technology is temporary, hence the Moon wonders deteriorating over time... The Mars technology does slowly improve, however your citizens don't want to spend their whole life in outer space... they are doing a 450/900day scientific stint to test the feasibility of long term living in space... After that time they will leave the colony. At that time, if you choose, you can send up another group, to continue the research. Gameplay reason; Long term strategies & planning, including timing your purchases and expiries, deciding if and when to close up shop and switch from the Moon to Mars (or vice versa), and having wonders that don't eventually provide infinite long term benefits with no costs once their ROI is achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Anyways, if I purchase a lunar base wonder, is there a chance that the mission will fail and I have to wait another thirty days to purchase this wonder? No chance it will fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryptamine Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I realize that you've only hinted at an additional set of militarily-oriented wonders to complement these, but it would be extremely useful to know the basic theme for each. That is... You defined basic themes for lunar and mars wonders in terms of cost, return, and duration. I know they may not yet be formulated, but knowing the military themes of each type of base would be pivotal in influencing my decision of which to purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternos Astramora Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 ...Soldier percentages, bad earth environment etc won't affect the number in the colony, except for the fact that you'd want to ensure you had your max population possible on your nation before creating your colony, as this would mean 6% of your citizens is a bigger number, as once you create the colony that number is static and only changes when you upgrade it etc. ... What's "upgrading"? I'm assuming it costs money. Does upgrading do anything else? Sort of off-topic, but I would've enjoyed tech improvements more than extra wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamlin Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Roleplay reason;The technology is temporary, hence the Moon wonders deteriorating over time... The Mars technology does slowly improve, however your citizens don't want to spend their whole life in outer space... they are doing a 450/900day scientific stint to test the feasibility of long term living in space... After that time they will leave the colony. At that time, if you choose, you can send up another group, to continue the research. Gameplay reason; Long term strategies & planning, including timing your purchases and expiries, deciding if and when to close up shop and switch from the Moon to Mars (or vice versa), and having wonders that don't eventually provide infinite long term benefits with no costs once their ROI is achieved. Rather than scrapping and rebuilding would there be a chance to implement something like retooling or repairing/upgrading the base. What I'm thinking is something along the lines of, after 2-3 years I can repair/upgrade it for say 1/2 the cost of a brand new one and renew the timer to another 4 years. It would make more sense that repairing your base would cost less than building a new one as you don't have the full expense of having to start from scratch. Ideally the cost would scale with age (or remaining age) of the base so repairing after 1 day would be cheap but repairing at day 1199 would cost say 90% of a new base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 What's "upgrading"? I'm assuming it costs money. Does upgrading do anything else? When you move your Mine or Colony, you have the option to do an extra feature on it, which I am using the blanket term of upgrading to describe. For the Mine; 'upgrading' = re-rolling for a new resource. For the Colony; 'upgrading' = re-storing 6% of your current citizen number, so if your stored number was only 3000, and you now had 100,000 citizens, you might want to 'upgrade' your colony to now store 6% of your 100,000 = 6,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I realize that you've only hinted at an additional set of militarily-oriented wonders to complement these, but it would be extremely useful to know the basic theme for each. That is... You defined basic themes for lunar and mars wonders in terms of cost, return, and duration. I know they may not yet be formulated, but knowing the military themes of each type of base would be pivotal in influencing my decision of which to purchase. Noted. We understand this is going to be a large investment, so admin and I agree that any military enhancements would only differ in short term vs long term dynamic. Eg, you won't see a Mars military facility enhcancing Navy while its Moon counterpart enhances Planes, you'd see both enhance the same military aspect, just the Moon would enhance it slightly more for a shorter time period, Mars slightly less, longer time period etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 We have decided to equate Tech and Infra in the formula for the cost of the wonders. For example, now a Nation with: 1. 10,000infra, 0 tech (30,000NS) 2. 5,000infra, 5000 tech (40,000NS) 3. 0 infra, 10,000tech (50,000NS) Will all pay the same price for the new wonders. This is done by the purchase cost formula now being: Base cost + (X * NS - (2 * Amount of Tech)) We have chosen not to make it solely based on Infra because we believe other things (Land/Military) should be taken into account as well. I understand some of you will still not be happy with this, but please take it as us meeting you half way. The Price of the Bases has been reduced considerably, and the Colony percentages have been tweaked, as have some of the Bonus resources (their ROI was far too great over the time frame). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shermanaslovakia Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Thanks but no thanks, having 40k NS, and 3k tech a Mars Base will still cost me 304 mil...and it's not even permanent. Note that this twice the price of the most expensive current PERMANENT wonders (Wonders that I can't even buy for awhile). I can't imagine the benefit will be that great for me to want to spend that amount of money; and the price will grow as my nation grows, which will only piss me off more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drai Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I still don't see why the colonies and mines can't last until the base expires... Other than that it looks decent now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drai Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) there is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start Drai Technically I just made one mistake... unless you meant the $3 mil assumption which I know is a huge underestimate. $150m / $3m = 50 days Yeah, right in between my 2 calculus midterms, hope I didn't do that poorly on the tests Edit: Sorry for the double post. Edited July 23, 2009 by Drai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirreille Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 This is done by the purchase cost formula now being:Base cost + (X * NS - (2 * Amount of Tech)) The Price of the Bases has been reduced considerably, and the Colony percentages have been tweaked, as have some of the Bonus resources (their ROI was far too great over the time frame). The formula you have here is not the same as the one you have in the information index right now, I assume it is supposed to look like this: (X *(NS- (2* Amount of tech))) Yes?? I see the prices have come down, but so have the potential gains. Even if the ROI is too great on paper, that assumes nothing happens to the nation in question over the lifetime of the wonder. Little things like wars do come along though. I suspect given the new sets of costs that these wonders will only be popular among the very largest & oldest nations, or perhaps the Nuetrals shall lead us to the final frontier. One question I have regarding the increasing & decreasing happiness levels over time; what is the starting/ending point, 0? I think these might be more palatable if the worst they got was say 50% effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiss Goodbye Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 If you are only subtracting 2* tech from NS, you are still penalizing us for the amount of tech we have; tech affects NS by a factor of 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 If you are only subtracting 2* tech from NS, you are still penalizing us for the amount of tech we have; tech affects NS by a factor of 5. As stated, this effectively equalises Infra and Tech in the cost. Infra is a factor of 3, so both tech and infra influence the cost by the same amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sande Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 The formula is quite reasonable now. Basically, you pay as much for tech as for infra. To everyone whining about the expirations: The mars base lasts for 3 years! What's the big deal with paying 300 mil for something that lasts for so long? It's a good investment, if you know how to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiss Goodbye Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 This may have been asked before--but if I have a moonbase and mine, and my base expires, will my mine automatically disappear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 This may have been asked before--but if I have a moonbase and mine, and my base expires, will my mine automatically disappear? No. The Base is there to set up operations. Once other wonders are developed, the operate independently of the Base. So, you would not lose them, but you would not be able to build any more Wonders without first building a new Base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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